In my position here,what would you vote?Lowbankclaret wrote:That is a difficult position.
General Election Is On
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Re: General Election Is On
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Re: General Election Is On
Labour's Health spokesman currently being Brillo'd by Andrew Neil, he can't answer when, how, if and how much a 4 day week would be implemented in the NHS.
Re: General Election Is On
Do we really need to keep labelling people we do not know racist on, at best(worst), highly tenuous grounds? What purpose does it serve?Lancasterclaret wrote:This thread is comedy gold
"You see that racist over there? "
"Oh god no, we hate racists"
"But he backs Brexit?"
"Really? Well, I'm sure he's just been misquoted and its all virtue signalling at the end of the day eh?"
Are you saying that if a person makes a racist comment then he/she is a racist. That's it. Game over.
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Re: General Election Is On
SNP guy now being skewered by Neil over and Independent Scotland's fiscal deficit.
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Re: General Election Is On
Tenuous grounds?android wrote:Do we really need to keep labelling people we do not know racist on, at best(worst), highly tenuous grounds? What purpose does it serve?
Are you saying that if a person makes a racist comment then he/she is a racist. That's it. Game over.
There are plenty of politicians who are not racists and have not said anything remotely racist.
That group does not include the current PM of the UK.
My point stands and is spot on.
Re: General Election Is On
Why would you say something racist if you weren’t racist?android wrote:Do we really need to keep labelling people we do not know racist on, at best(worst), highly tenuous grounds? What purpose does it serve?
Are you saying that if a person makes a racist comment then he/she is a racist. That's it. Game over.
Re: General Election Is On
I presume that includes Jo Swinson then with her six white men in a room comment.
What has the current PM said that makes him racist in your view?
What has the current PM said that makes him racist in your view?
Re: General Election Is On
I think people can make mistakes. And times change - we can all think of a term to describe people of colour that was considered appropriate some years ago and is now not appropriate but a very old person might use it in innocence. Just one example.martin_p wrote:Why would you say something racist if you weren’t racist?
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Re: General Election Is On
Cheers for driving home my point even more.android wrote:I think people can make mistakes. And times change - we can all think of a term to describe people of colour that was considered appropriate some years ago and is now not appropriate but a very old person might use it in innocence. Just one example.
Re: General Election Is On
Eh? Please could you be courteous enough to explain as I don't understand.Lancasterclaret wrote:Cheers for driving home my point even more.
Would also be grateful if you could answer my previous question?
Re: General Election Is On
Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
Here's what the Tory plans imply: a 2.9% avg annual real terms increase. More than during austerity but nonetheless the second-smallest increase of any comparable period since the NHS was created. Far from strongest in a generation it's among the weakest in any postwar generation
@EdConwaySky
Here's what the Tory plans imply: a 2.9% avg annual real terms increase. More than during austerity but nonetheless the second-smallest increase of any comparable period since the NHS was created. Far from strongest in a generation it's among the weakest in any postwar generation
Re: General Election Is On
Over what period is 2.9% increase being projected and what is it based on? The reason I ask is I thought the Tories had already committed to a 3.4% real terms annual increase and they are likely to make further spending commitments on health and care. Sorry I don't use Twitter but would be interested to know what you've concluded from this since you thought it was necessary to post it.Spijed wrote:Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
Here's what the Tory plans imply: a 2.9% avg annual real terms increase. More than during austerity but nonetheless the second-smallest increase of any comparable period since the NHS was created. Far from strongest in a generation it's among the weakest in any postwar generation
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Re: General Election Is On
He’s more than racist... this is the top result when searching for Boris racistandroid wrote:I presume that includes Jo Swinson then with her six white men in a room comment.
What has the current PM said that makes him racist in your view?
https://amp.businessinsider.com/boris-j ... ies-2019-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: General Election Is On
Unfortunately it's very hard to find tangible proof that a press conference in Luxembourg was set up by Luxembourgers, and not by (for example) people from Botswana, Taiwan, or England. I suppose it's perfectly possible that johnson asked for a press conference to be held near an angry crowd of anti-Brexiters and then changed his mind when he realised the angry crowd of angry anti-Brexiters might not be co-operative? I don't know how closed a mind you would have to have to think that likely; but judging from your post, your mind is certainly closed enough to believe it.Devils_Advocate wrote:It wasn't a govt press conference it was a press conference on the EU discussions that took place. This wasn't thrust upon Johnson but a press conference he jointly agreed to and then ran away because he was scared to face his British public
Again if you have any actual proof to show it was specifically set up and arranged by Luxemburg and Johnson was not party to these arrangements please do post it. Otherwise just go and spread your [deleted] elsewhere please
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Re: General Election Is On
Why can't some people get it into their heads that we could have had an election concentrating on the real issues had Parliamentary MPs ( mainly Labour) not behaved in the way they did.
This will always be about Brexit and to think otherwise is foolhardy
This will always be about Brexit and to think otherwise is foolhardy
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Re: General Election Is On
No worries DSR the conversation has moved on.dsr wrote:Unfortunately it's very hard to find tangible proof that a press conference in Luxembourg was set up by Luxembourgers, and not by (for example) people from Botswana, Taiwan, or England. I suppose it's perfectly possible that johnson asked for a press conference to be held near an angry crowd of anti-Brexiters and then changed his mind when he realised the angry crowd of angry anti-Brexiters might not be co-operative? I don't know how closed a mind you would have to have to think that likely; but judging from your post, your mind is certainly closed enough to believe it.
Corbyn was approached by a racist, homophobic christian nutjob who seems to think pedophilia by the church is less perverse than consensual adult sex between two men who then started to accuse Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathiser with unsubstantiated claims and as a result Corbyn made the sensible decision not to engage with him and give his horrific views any more airtime than he had already gotten
Johnson set up a joint press conference following a visit to Luxembourg to share his Brexit proposals and because some Luxembourg based British citizens turned up to protest about the negative threat it poses to their lives Johnson cancelled and snuck out the back door
Its clear youve sided with the racist, homophobic christian zealot in this debate but hey ho we've seen enough of your views pedaled on here over and over again to not be shocked or surprised.
You can keep on trying to twist things and act the good guy but once again the mask slips. Have a good night.
This user liked this post: HieronymousBoschHobs
Re: General Election Is On
Then there’s that other video from today where a woman in Yorkshire is approached by a racist, homophobic nutjob and made the sensible decision not to engage.Devils_Advocate wrote: Corbyn was approached by a racist, homophobic christian nutjob who seems to think pedophilia by the church is less perverse than consensual adult sex between two men who then started to accuse Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathiser with unsubstantiated claims and as a result Corbyn made the sensible decision not to engage with him
This user liked this post: Devils_Advocate
Re: General Election Is On
I think there's a bit of misreading, miscomprehension, or possibly ascribing someone else's post to me. What I said was:Devils_Advocate wrote:No worries DSR the conversation has moved on.
Corbyn was approached by a racist, homophobic christian nutjob who seems to think pedophilia by the church is less perverse than consensual adult sex between two men who then started to accuse Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathiser with unsubstantiated claims and as a result Corbyn made the sensible decision not to engage with him and give his horrific views any more airtime than he had already gotten
Johnson set up a joint press conference following a visit to Luxembourg to share his Brexit proposals and because some Luxembourg based British citizens turned up to protest about the negative threat it poses to their lives Johnson cancelled and snuck out the back door
Its clear youve sided with the racist, homophobic christian zealot in this debate but hey ho we've seen enough of your views pedaled on here over and over again to not be shocked or surprised.
You can keep on trying to twist things and act the good guy but once again the mask slips. Have a good night.
There was no reference to any actual event, it was a hypothetical occurence. And it wasn't a criticism of Corbyn either. So now that the reason behind your recent string of rants has been sorted out, and we know it was down to sloppiness in reading, perhaps you can cut down on the bigotry?dsr wrote:"I have a suspicion that if the UK government set up a press conference for Corbyn with a crowd of Brexiteers as spectators, Corbyn wouldn't turn up either."
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Re: General Election Is On
I was watching the Labour's pledge regarding the NHS but for some reason all I was picturing was https://youtu.be/1_36VDDTPRU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On
I’ve just been doing a fag packet working of Labour’s 32 hour week on the NHS.
The Tories reckon it will cost £6bn.
I think that is way, way too low. Well into double figures annually. The Tories wont have figured out the impact if the NHS cannot find new staff to replace these lost hours (likely to be overtime and other high pay levels, at least for a few years).
Crikey. Probably good for me, I’ll be asked to go into some Trusts to sort the mess out, like always when there is a major change, but terrible for the NHS.
The Tories reckon it will cost £6bn.
I think that is way, way too low. Well into double figures annually. The Tories wont have figured out the impact if the NHS cannot find new staff to replace these lost hours (likely to be overtime and other high pay levels, at least for a few years).
Crikey. Probably good for me, I’ll be asked to go into some Trusts to sort the mess out, like always when there is a major change, but terrible for the NHS.
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I was relying on you posting about what’s happened on News at Ten and Newsnight. Any new polls due out?AndyClaret wrote:SNP guy now being skewered by Neil over and Independent Scotland's fiscal deficit.
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Re: General Election Is On
To be fair communist costing are always on the low side, by a long way.CrosspoolClarets wrote:I’ve just been doing a fag packet working of Labour’s 32 hour week on the NHS.
The Tories reckon it will cost £6bn.
I think that is way, way too low. Well into double figures annually. The Tories wont have figured out the impact if the NHS cannot find new staff to replace these lost hours (likely to be overtime and other high pay levels, at least for a few years).
Crikey. Probably good for me, I’ll be asked to go into some Trusts to sort the mess out, like always when there is a major change, but terrible for the NHS.
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Re: General Election Is On
Cynical FF i don't think extra money is necessarily the cure all for the NHS,despite what Labour claim.FactualFrank wrote:I was watching the Labour's pledge regarding the NHS but for some reason all I was picturing was https://youtu.be/1_36VDDTPRU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This article is 18 months old,but the bullet points still remain.https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572110
Social care hasn't yet had much of a mention in this campaign,but it's a ticking timebomb,and sooner or later the government of whatever persuasion will have to find a solution,whether that's raising income tax or national insurance or both.
A bigger issue is recruiting and retaining staff,yes you can train nurses but that takes 5-10 years to filter through,and if many existing staff are hitting retirement age in that period,your net increase will be minimal at best.
Immigration curbs don't encourage recruitment either,which is why i agree with Labour in keeping FOM.
Ideally the politicians would stop using the NHS as a political football,but alas that's fantasy land.
Re: General Election Is On
Are you taking into account the fact that the majority of studies show increased productivity when working fewer hours or assuming the same productivity levels?CrosspoolClarets wrote:I’ve just been doing a fag packet working of Labour’s 32 hour week on the NHS.
The Tories reckon it will cost £6bn.
I think that is way, way too low. Well into double figures annually. The Tories wont have figured out the impact if the NHS cannot find new staff to replace these lost hours (likely to be overtime and other high pay levels, at least for a few years).
Crikey. Probably good for me, I’ll be asked to go into some Trusts to sort the mess out, like always when there is a major change, but terrible for the NHS.
Re: General Election Is On
How would the NHS increase its productivity, over and above it pursuing existing productivity initiatives, with the substantial workforce capacity and skills shortages that a 32 hour week would create in the NHS? Over the next 10 years and beyond the NHS will increasingly look to digital technology, AI and robotics to improve productivity but this will happen regardless.aggi wrote:Are you taking into account the fact that the majority of studies show increased productivity when working fewer hours or assuming the same productivity levels?
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Re: General Election Is On
Labour is split over Immigration, union boss urges Corbyn to end free movement.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... f-movement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... f-movement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: General Election Is On
I think to compare the NHS with a normal workplace is why its in such a mess in the first place.taio wrote:How would the NHS increase its productivity, over and above it pursuing existing productivity initiatives, with the substantial workforce capacity and skills shortages that a 32 hour week would create in the NHS? Over the next 10 years and beyond the NHS will increasingly look to digital technology, AI and robotics to improve productivity but this will happen regardless.
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Re: General Election Is On
"The Tories are the party of the rich" Oh....
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/11 ... 1228337152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/11 ... 1228337152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Although pensioners, regardless of wealth, are classed as working class in this poll which I imagine has skewed the figures.AndyClaret wrote:"The Tories are the party of the rich" Oh....
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/11 ... 1228337152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: General Election Is On
[quote="Rick_Muller"]He’s more than racist... this is the top result when searching for Boris racist
Boris has certainly played the clown over the years and said some idiotic things either at attempts at humour or just to get attention.
But over that period the country as a whole has grown up on gay rights including gay marriage. It's 2019 and thankfully no person has anything to fear from any British PM or government just for being gay.
Whether Boris has grown up in his attitude to women is more debatable, although I don't think the guaranteed bigger breasts policy will make it into the manifesto. He is not the first British, French or American leader to not practice celibacy or monogamy and some of them have been good leaders.
We have also made great strides against racism but I think this is more of a live issue and potential problem still than gay rights or womens rights. I don't think it helps that the term racist is thrown around so casually.
I had Lancaster down as one of the less rabid Tory haters so I asked him why he had branded our PM a racist. Also Martin as well, although I think he might have been joking.
I seem to have somehow upset Lancaster just by asking the question but I don't know why. Lancaster?
Boris has certainly played the clown over the years and said some idiotic things either at attempts at humour or just to get attention.
But over that period the country as a whole has grown up on gay rights including gay marriage. It's 2019 and thankfully no person has anything to fear from any British PM or government just for being gay.
Whether Boris has grown up in his attitude to women is more debatable, although I don't think the guaranteed bigger breasts policy will make it into the manifesto. He is not the first British, French or American leader to not practice celibacy or monogamy and some of them have been good leaders.
We have also made great strides against racism but I think this is more of a live issue and potential problem still than gay rights or womens rights. I don't think it helps that the term racist is thrown around so casually.
I had Lancaster down as one of the less rabid Tory haters so I asked him why he had branded our PM a racist. Also Martin as well, although I think he might have been joking.
I seem to have somehow upset Lancaster just by asking the question but I don't know why. Lancaster?
Re: General Election Is On
NET immigration is currently 300,000 per year (3 million over 10 years). Imo this situation is unsustainable and this country needs a strong but fair immigration policy.
The Conservatives are proposing an Australian style points based system. Can anyone (Andrew or Martin?) explain the immigration policies of the other political parties?
The Conservatives are proposing an Australian style points based system. Can anyone (Andrew or Martin?) explain the immigration policies of the other political parties?
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Re: General Election Is On
Why would you upset me?android wrote:
I get vexed that intelligent people can ignore the evidence of their own eyes and ears but I can't do anything about it so I don't get angry.
You are perfectly within your rights to think Johnston isn't a racist. I think he's shown he is.
To be fair though, I worry more about the Conservative parties shift to the right (and also by Labour to the left) and anyone who thinks that won't have an effect on minorities in this county really needs to read some history.
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Re: General Election Is On
Sorry you lost me with this oxymoronMala591 wrote: fair policy / The Conservatives
Re: General Election Is On
Fair enough Lancs. But it was the "driving home your point" comment that seemed weird. Not only have you not driven home your point, you still seem unable to answer the question!
I think calling someone a racist is pretty serious. It's extremely serious if that person is our Prime Minister. Are you really unable to say why he is a racist?
I think calling someone a racist is pretty serious. It's extremely serious if that person is our Prime Minister. Are you really unable to say why he is a racist?
Re: General Election Is On
The manifestos haven’t been published yet so no.Mala591 wrote:NET immigration is currently 300,000 per year (3 million over 10 years). Imo this situation is unsustainable and this country needs a strong but fair immigration policy.
The Conservatives are proposing an Australian style points based system. Can anyone (Andrew or Martin?) explain the immigration policies of the other political parties?
Re: General Election Is On
I consider the Australian based points system as a strong but fair system. If you disagree then kindly put forward your preferred solution to this very important political issue.Devils_Advocate wrote:Sorry you lost me with this oxymoron
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Re: General Election Is On
But you have thoughandroid wrote:Fair enough Lancs. But it was the "driving home your point" comment that seemed weird. Not only have you not driven home your point, you still seem unable to answer the question!
I think calling someone a racist is pretty serious. It's extremely serious if that person is our Prime Minister. Are you really unable to say why he is a racist?
My point was in four stages.
Your replies have (indirectly perhaps!) shown it be a fair one.
You must know that Johnson isn't fit to be PM.
Everyone who has worked with him and is honest about it is fairly damning. Its not just one or two disgruntled people is it?
You know he's guilty of saying stuff about Muslims, Liverpool, Scotland (just off the top of my head) that would immediately disqualify him from being a PM in normal times.
But he backs Brexit.
And because he backs Brexit, Brexit backers are prepared to ignore all his faults.
And when those faults are mentioned, they are brushed aside as not important.
Thats why my point stands.
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Re: General Election Is On
I don't think its remotely fair.Mala591 wrote:I consider the Australian based points system as a strong but fair system. If you disagree then kindly put forward your preferred solution to this very important political issue.
You do know where the Australians take illegal immigrants to to avoid having to deal with them face to face don't you?
Re: General Election Is On
Donald Tusk coming down on the side of the remainers saying that Britain will be a 2nd rate country and it will be the real end of the British Empire if we go ahead with Brexit. Guess he's hoping to sway voters to vote Labour or Lib Dem. If that's Europes opinion of us then we're better of out of it and they obviously don't need us so why are they so desperate to keep us in.
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Re: General Election Is On
Worst ever A & E figures
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/11 ... 4719395840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This kind of thing matters.
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/11 ... 4719395840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This kind of thing matters.
Re: General Election Is On
You are entitled to your opinion Lancs. So, what kind of 'fair' immigration system would YOU prefer?Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't think its remotely fair.
You do know where the Australians take illegal immigrants to to avoid having to deal with them face to face don't you?
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Re: General Election Is On
One that realises that non-EU migration is bigger than EU migration.Mala591 wrote:You are entitled to your opinion Lancs. So, what kind of 'fair' immigration system would YOU prefer?
One that doesn't penalise my kids if they want to work in other parts of Europe.
One that isn't blatantly racist.
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Re: General Election Is On
It's funny how immigration critics always invoke Australia, one of the most racist countries in the world, when trying to make a point about a fairer system. Almost as if they're not really bothered about a fairer system, just a more racist one.
Last edited by JohnMcGreal on Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret
Re: General Election Is On
You are making less and less sense. How on earth have I answered the question that Johnson is a racist?Lancasterclaret wrote:But you have though
My point was in four stages.
Your replies have (indirectly perhaps!) shown it be a fair one.
You must know that Johnson isn't fit to be PM.
Everyone who has worked with him and is honest about it is fairly damning. Its not just one or two disgruntled people is it?
You know he's guilty of saying stuff about Muslims, Liverpool, Scotland (just off the top of my head) that would immediately disqualify him from being a PM in normal times.
But he backs Brexit.
And because he backs Brexit, Brexit backers are prepared to ignore all his faults.
And when those faults are mentioned, they are brushed aside as not important.
Thats why my point stands.
I don't see how comments about Liverpool and Scotland make him racist. You mention Muslims and I can only think of the letter box thing. Is that it? Rowan Atkinson called this a good and funny joke. I disagree with Rowan Atkinson but I doubt he is a fan of Boris Johnson and a don't think he is a racist. But logically you must also think Rowan Atkinson is a racist - right?
You have written a lot about truth and evidence so you must have more than this surely?
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Re: General Election Is On
You know what's more serious than calling someone a racist? Being a racist.android wrote:Fair enough Lancs. But it was the "driving home your point" comment that seemed weird. Not only have you not driven home your point, you still seem unable to answer the question!
I think calling someone a racist is pretty serious. It's extremely serious if that person is our Prime Minister. Are you really unable to say why he is a racist?
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret
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Re: General Election Is On
Look, you vote for Johnson because he backs Brexit.android wrote:You are making less and less sense. How on earth have I answered the question that Johnson is a racist?
I don't see how comments about Liverpool and Scotland make him racist. You mention Muslims and I can only think of the letter box thing. Is that it? Rowan Atkinson called this a good and funny joke. I disagree with Rowan Atkinson but I doubt he is a fan of Boris Johnson and a don't think he is a racist. But logically you must also think Rowan Atkinson is a racist - right?
You have written a lot about truth and evidence so you must have more than this surely?
You ignore the other **** that he's clearly unsuitable to be PM.
When its bought up, you ignore it and make facile comparisons
every post you make on this backs up my post.
In the nicest possible way, you are clearly way brighter than this.
But its Brexit, and to some, that trumps everything.
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Re: General Election Is On
ExactlyJohnMcGreal wrote:You know what's more serious than calling someone a racist? Being a racist.
Re: General Election Is On
Please explain why the Australian points based immigration system is racist.JohnMcGreal wrote:It's funny how immigration critics always invoke Australia, one of the most racist countries in the world, when trying to make a point about a fairer system. Almost as if they're not really bothered about a fairer system, just a more racist one.
Re: General Election Is On
Blimey. Are you calling me a racist now?????JohnMcGreal wrote:You know what's more serious than calling someone a racist? Being a racist.
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So the Government are letting in lots of brown people.Lancasterclaret wrote:One that realises that non-EU migration is bigger than EU migration.
The Government is blatantly racist.One that isn't blatantly racist.
Quite, quite, incredible.