General Election Is On

[Devils_Advocate]

I consider the Australian based points system as a strong but fair system. If you disagree then kindly put forward your preferred solution to this very important political issue.

Think you completely missed my point. I wasn't commentating on the Australian based points system but the fact that conflating the Tory's and a fair policy is contradictory as everything they do is self serving to them and their rich supporters.

The only extent to which they give a sh*t about the working classes is to do the minimal amount needes to ensure they have enough votes to keep them in power

[android]

Look, you vote for Johnson because he backs Brexit.

You ignore the other **** that he's clearly unsuitable to be PM.

When its bought up, you ignore it and make facile comparisons

every post you make on this backs up my post.

In the nicest possible way, you are clearly way brighter than this.

But its Brexit, and to some, that trumps everything.

Wow this has become really weird.

I don't even care that much about Brexit except in the sense that the democratic vote should be implemented! And this point has nothing to do with Brexit as far as I am concerned.

So I have looked back over my posts.

Is it because I said that I think someone could make a single racist comment in their life and should not necessarily be branded a racist? The irony is that one of the people I was thinking of was Corbyn who I have seen make a blatantly racist comment.

Is it because I gave the example of some old geezer maybe inadvertently calling a person "coloured" because that used to be considered more appropriate than referring to black people black for much of his earlier life. Seriously - that would be enough to brand him a racist - and now me for mentioning it and being willing to forgive him !!!!

Utter madness. Whatever happened to tolerant liberals.

[Lancasterclaret]

So the Government are letting in lots of brown people.


The Government is blatantly racist.


Quite, quite, incredible.

Not at all

I just want people who are against the EU on immigration grounds to realise that non-EU immigration will go up to compensate.

I'm hazarding a guess here, but that is going to bother you a hell of a lot more than it bothers me.

Isn't it time for your daily poll?

[Lancasterclaret]

Wow this has become really weird.

I don't even care that much about Brexit except in the sense that the democratic vote should be implemented! And this point has nothing to do with Brexit as far as I am concerned.

So I have looked back over my posts.

Is it because I said that I think someone could make a single racist comment in their life and should not necessarily be branded a racist? The irony is that one of the people I was thinking of was Corbyn who I have seen make a blatantly racist comment.

Is it because I gave the example of some old geezer maybe inadvertently calling a person "coloured" because that used to be considered more appropriate than referring to black people black for much of his earlier life. Seriously - that would be enough to brand him a racist - and now me for mentioning it and being willing to forgive him !!!!

Utter madness. Whatever happened to tolerant liberals.

Oh good, we've got whataboutery now.

This is completely predictable.

At least you've admitted that Johnson has made a racist comment, which is a start I suppose.

You might even be admitting he's a serial liar by the next election at this rate of progress.

[Right_winger]

It's funny how immigration critics always invoke Australia, one of the most racist countries in the world, when trying to make a point about a fairer system. Almost as if they're not really bothered about a fairer system, just a more racist one.

It’s funny how people like yourself make wild accusations and throw the racism card out there with no merit whatsoever.

First of all you have to ask yourself what is racism and secondly why does a points based immigration system do to be racist? Does it exclude people entering the country to be able to access the country’s benefits purely based on where they come from or what they look like? Of course it doesn’t. It excludes people they don’t require because they don’t have the skills they are looking for or will be a drain on their welfare.

So go on admit it. You have used a stereotype ( in calling Australia racist ) and are trying to paint anyone who agrees with an Australian system racist. Do you not see how ridiculous that looks/sounds?

This is how yourself and others of your ilk debate though. High on sound bytes low on substance.

[Lancasterclaret]

Put it another way if it helps

Do you think someone who makes racist comments should ever be the PM of a multi-cultural country?

Don't you think that will have a negative effect?

(and for the love of god, you know by reading these threads that I'm anti-Corbyn as well)

[AndyClaret]

Not at all

I just want people who are against the EU on immigration grounds to realise that non-EU immigration will go up to compensate.

I'm hazarding a guess here, but that is going to bother you a hell of a lot more than it bothers me.

Isn't it time for your daily poll?

I want fair, managed, skills based immigration, don't care where people come from, but yeah, racist or something.

[Lancasterclaret]

This is how yourself and others of your ilk debate though. High on sound bytes low on substance.

STOP BLOWING UP MY IRONY FILTER

[Lancasterclaret]

I want fair, managed, skills based immigration, don't care where people come from, but yeah, racist or something.

Thank god your posts on here completely clear you of being a racist eh?

[fatboy47]

[quote="android"]Wow this has become really weird.

""" I don't even care that much about Brexit except in the sense that the democratic vote should be implemented! And this point has nothing to do with Brexit as far as I am concerned."""



Honestly just curious here...not point scoring....what's your view on BJ repeatedly going back to the House for votes on his ""deal"".....do you think he should have accepted the first vote on the issue?... likewise Mrs May ?

....and if there were to be a second referendum would you feel it undemocratic if there was a significant majority in favour of Remain ?...its just that of my Brexit voting friends there now seems to be a big shift towards Remain now that we are seeing a clearer picture of the implications.

[AndyClaret]

Thank god your posts on here completely clear you of being a racist eh?

Couldn't care less what you think.

[AlargeClaret]

I want fair, managed, skills based immigration, don't care where people come from, but yeah, racist or something.

Good god man ! There’s no time for sensible progressive arguments or suggestions on here

[Right_winger]

STOP BLOWING UP MY IRONY FILTER

Just aswell it’s YOUR filter and based on absolute gobbledygook then isn’t it.

[Lancasterclaret]

Couldn't care less what you think.

Its not what I think that is the problem Andy, its what you post and what you clearly think that is.

[dsr]

It is factually accurate to say that Muslim women dressed in outfits that show only their eyes, look like they are wearing black pillar boxes. IMO. It is also, according to some definitions of racism, racist, because it refers to people of colour in a way that some people see as derogatory.

Remember that in some aspects of law, a racist comment is one that is perceived by anyone who sees it or hears it, as racist. Therefore to some people's eyes, especially those filled with hatred and intolerance, Johnson has made a racist comment and is not fit to be PM. In the same way as anyone who has ever told an Irish joke is racist would be unfit to be PM, presumably.

[Spijed]

Nick Gutteridge
@nick_gutteridge
Farage says BXP candidates are coming under 'relentless phone calls, emails and abuse' to stand down. 'There’s a full scale attempt to stop men and women freely putting themselves up before the UK electorate. You would’ve thought this was Venezuela. A complete & utter disgrace.'

[Devils_Advocate]

Its very confusing. Maybe this should go on Bosscat's optical illusion thread.

[FactualFrank]

I read Matt Hancock's statement regarding the A&E waiting times and the only thing he could say was tell us why we shouldn't let Jeremy Corbyn in - I think that says it all. Pathetic.

[fatboy47]

Nick Gutteridge
@nick_gutteridge
Farage says BXP candidates are coming under 'relentless phone calls, emails and abuse' to stand down. 'There’s a full scale attempt to stop men and women freely putting themselves up before the UK electorate. You would’ve thought this was Venezuela. A complete & utter disgrace.'

must be totally true and accurate if Nige says so.

[martin_p]

It is factually accurate to say that Muslim women dressed in outfits that show only their eyes, look like they are wearing black pillar boxes. IMO. It is also, according to some definitions of racism, racist, because it refers to people of colour in a way that some people see as derogatory.

Remember that in some aspects of law, a racist comment is one that is perceived by anyone who sees it or hears it, as racist. Therefore to some people's eyes, especially those filled with hatred and intolerance, Johnson has made a racist comment and is not fit to be PM. In the same way as anyone who has ever told an Irish joke is racist would be unfit to be PM, presumably.

Whether you really believe that Muslim women look like pillar boxes or not (it’s a stretch) you can’t brush the piccaninnies and watermelon smiles comments off as easily.

[dsr]

Whether you really believe that Muslim women look like pillar boxes or not (it’s a stretch) you can’t brush the piccaninnies and watermelon smiles comments off as easily.

Patronising and tactless, I'll grant. But my racism threshhold is set higher than some people's (as is my tolerance level), hence why I still have a collection of Irish joke books and haven't put them on the PC bonfire.

[Cryssys]

Although pensioners, regardless of wealth, are classed as working class in this poll which I imagine has skewed the figures.

Interesting to note that 20% of pensioners in the UK are millionaires so hardly working class.

[AndyClaret]

Whether you really believe that Muslim women look like pillar boxes or not (it’s a stretch) you can’t brush the piccaninnies and watermelon smiles comments off as easily.

And the full quote for context.

[taio]

I think to compare the NHS with a normal workplace is why its in such a mess in the first place.

The reason for where the NHS is at is largely down to increased demand as a result of an ageing population and people living longer with more complex long-term health conditions and comorbidities. But I wouldn't say it is in "such a mess" to the extent you are suggesting. Healthcare needs to be modernised and reshaped through funding investment, not through a fundamental overhaul that would be required if it was in such a mess.

[martin_p]

And the full quote for context.

It’s worst than I thought!

[Lancasterclaret]

The reason for where the NHS is at is largely down to increased demand as a result of an ageing population and people living longer with more complex long-term health conditions and comorbidities. But I wouldn't say it is in "such a mess" to the extent you are suggesting. Healthcare needs to be modernised and reshaped through funding investment, not through a fundamental overhaul that would be required if it was in such a mess.

Point taken and there is no doubt that a serious conversation with the voters is required to see what they want the future NHS to look like. I don't see that happening with the state of politics in this country at the moment.

But the waiting times for A & E today suggest its in a mess, and that a lot of work and money is required to make it better.

[Devils_Advocate]

It’s worst than I thought!

And in the preceding paragraph of the same article

[Lancasterclaret]

Andy missed that bit out!?!

No way!

[martin_p]

Andy missed that bit out!?!

No way!

The bit he posted wasn’t great!

[Lancasterclaret]

The bit he posted wasn’t great!

But it was to him.

Thats what he thinks, so he thinks it ok.

[Devils_Advocate]

To be fair to Boris he had a more balanced view when talking about the children of the Congo

[taio]

Point taken and there is no doubt that a serious conversation with the voters is required to see what they want the future NHS to look like. I don't see that happening with the state of politics in this country at the moment.

But the waiting times for A & E today suggest its in a mess, and that a lot of work and money is required to make it better.

The waiting times of A&E today relate exactly to what I was referring to about unprecedented increase is demand caused by a range of factors not least our ageing population. In October this year there were 2.2m A&E attendances in England. In October 2016 - just three years ago - there were 1.9m A&E attendances. And that there needs to be a shift from acute to community provision to divert unnecessary A&E attendances (typically up to 30% that could be dealt with elsewhere).

[jontybfc]

Patronising and tactless, I'll grant. But my racism threshhold is set higher than some people's (as is my tolerance level), hence why I still have a collection of Irish joke books and haven't put them on the PC bonfire.

So someone of colour offended by those comments just have a lower racism threshold? It's their problem?

[dsr]

To be fair to Boris he had a more balanced view when talking about the children of the Congo

What is actually wrong with expressing sympathy for children who are dying of Aids?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/b ... lonialism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even the most ardent of Boris-haters is clutching at straws on this one.

[Lancasterclaret]

The waiting times of A&E today relate exactly to what I was referring to about unprecedented increase is demand caused by a range of factors not least our ageing population. In October this year there were 2.2m A&E attendances in England. In October 2016 - just three years ago - there were 1.9m A&E attendances. And that there needs to be a shift from acute to community provision to divert unnecessary A&E attendances (typically up to 30% that could be dealt with elsewhere).

Again, agreed

There are not facilities or staff in place for a whole variety of illnesses that make A & E the only possible place to go.

They have all been slashed to the bone over the last decade, and as I said above, people need to have a serious discussion about the NHS and what it does in the future.

[aggi]

I consider the Australian based points system as a strong but fair system. If you disagree then kindly put forward your preferred solution to this very important political issue.

One big reason why the points based system "works" in Australia is because if you want to go over there for a couple of years on a working visa you have to do 6 months of manual labour (although this has been full of scandal with tales of indentured workers, sexual assault and the like). All those low paid, low skilled jobs are still being filled by immigrants (and with all the dubious schemes such as charging a fortune for food and board they are often very low paid).

[Lord Beamish]

What is actually wrong with expressing sympathy for children who are dying of Aids?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/b ... lonialism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even the most ardent of Boris-haters is clutching at straws on this one.

Oh dear!

[dsr]

Oh dear!

That doesn't answer the question. What is wrong with expressing sympathy for children who are dying of Aids?

[Jakubclaret]

Point taken and there is no doubt that a serious conversation with the voters is required to see what they want the future NHS to look like. I don't see that happening with the state of politics in this country at the moment.

But the waiting times for A & E today suggest its in a mess, and that a lot of work and money is required to make it better.

It doesn't start there, it starts with the prevention why do some need to be their in the first place, obesity, smoking, drinking basically anything that contributes to poor health, prevention is always better than the cure, money should be spent on that & everything else will reduce or fall into place. The savings accrued adopting that kind of approach will be massive rather than throwing money into a bottomless pit.

[Lord Beamish]

That doesn't answer the question. What is wrong with expressing sympathy for children who are dying of Aids?

Read what DA said. He wasn’t criticising Johnson for feeling sympathy for AIDS victims.

[dsr]

Read what DA said. He wasn’t criticising Johnson for feeling sympathy for AIDS victims.

I think, knowing to some extent the way DA's mind works, that he was posting it as a criticism of Boris, not as a compliment. My apologies to DA if that's wrong. What he said was

To be fair to Boris he had a more balanced view when talking about the children of the Congo

which may or may not have been said with a sense of irony.

[Lord Beamish]

I think, knowing to some extent the way DA's mind works, that he was posting it as a criticism of Boris, not as a compliment. My apologies to DA if that's wrong. What he said was

which may or may not have been said with a sense of irony.

Translation: I read into it what I wanted to read into it because it suited my narrative.
You are certainly one of the most duplicitous and mendacious posters on here, dsr. No doubt about that.

[dsr]

Translation: I read into it what I wanted to read into it because it suited my narrative.
You are certainly one of the most duplicitous and mendacious posters on here, dsr. No doubt about that.

DA can solve this. Perhaps he will be on shortly and can explain whether he was being wholly complimentary or not. I presume you think it was a pro-Boris post? One of DA's very few?

[Lancasterclaret]

It doesn't start there, it starts with the prevention why do some need to be their in the first place, obesity, smoking, drinking basically anything that contributes to poor health, prevention is always better than the cure, money should be spent on that & everything else will reduce or fall into place. The savings accrued adopting that kind of approach will be massive rather than throwing money into a bottomless pit.

Yup

Possibly your best post ever on this forum Jakub

[Lord Beamish]

DA can solve this. Perhaps he will be on shortly and can explain whether he was being wholly complimentary or not. I presume you think it was a pro-Boris post? One of DA's very few?

I took it at face value. Doing that I could identify the posts critical of Johnson and the ones that weren’t.

I think it’s fairly obvious to anyone without an agenda that DA would not be criticising someone for having empathy towards AIDS ravaged children.

[Jakubclaret]

Yup

Possibly your best post ever on this forum Jakub

That's something you should be recognising for yourself though, there's only so much wisdom I can offer at some point you need to be absorbing & retaining this within.

[Lancasterclaret]

That's something you should be recognising for yourself though, there's only so much wisdom I can offer at some point you need to be absorbing & retaining this within.

No offence Jakub, but on this we agree and probably only this.

Me and Dsr are in complete agreement on the way BFC is run for example

You can agree on stuff like this but be polar opposites in everything else.

[Lord Beamish]

That's something you should be recognising for yourself though, there's only so much wisdom I can offer at some point you need to be absorbing & retaining this within.

I’m surprised you didn’t finish that by calling Lancaster “Grasshopper”.

[Jakubclaret]

No offence Jakub, but on this we agree and probably only this.

Me and Dsr are in complete agreement on the way BFC is run for example

You can agree on stuff like this but be polar opposites in everything else.

I was joking, soh bypass or maybe it was a bum joke or you really thought I was serious, anyway 1 in 5 within the waiting times is pretty poor it's a underachieving target which needs addressing.

[dsr]

I took it at face value. Doing that I could identify the posts critical of Johnson and the ones that weren’t.

I think it’s fairly obvious to anyone without an agenda that DA would not be criticising someone for having empathy towards AIDS ravaged children.

Fair enough. DA himself was calling me yesterday because he read something into one of my posts that simply wasn't there. I shouldn't be making the same mistake. Fair play to DA for posting something complimentary to Boris, who I know he doesn't normally approve of.