General Election Is On

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AndrewJB
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:14 am

Dy1geo wrote:Still waiting for the answer about where the money is coming from to buy BT,

What yields on GILTS will we have to pay for any borrowing?

Also with regards BT will the Govt. take on the pension liabilities of BT.
Read Paul Waine’s post above.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:19 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I look forward to booking a new broadband install if I have a new home, no doubt there will be a 10 year waiting list once Labour get their mitts on it. I shall also be checking that I don’t own shares in BT or other broadband companies, all of which presumably would lose their business. Luckily that it is only down 2% this morning shows the market thinks labour have zip chance of winning.

Note - I have concern that Johnson’s broadband pledge would be unaffordable to many punters, but full nationalisation is not the answer. No matter what the existing problems, you never ask the lunatics to run the asylum (I know it is an old expression but “clients running the mental health and wellbeing facility” doesn’t work in the same way as a metaphor).
Evidence shows lots of privatisations - power, trains, water - have failed except for the shareholders. Yet you cling to the mantra of the 80s.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by LoveCurryPies » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:21 am

John McDonnell talking about free broadband on Radio 4 this morning. Guy hasn't a clue. As well as taking over BT Open Reach, He hinted they would also have to takeover Virgin Media and other broadband suppliers. How would Labour pay for that? "That would be by negotiation". In other words he doesn't know.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:39 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:John McDonnell talking about free broadband on Radio 4 this morning. Guy hasn't a clue. As well as taking over BT Open Reach, He hinted they would also have to takeover Virgin Media and other broadband suppliers. How would Labour pay for that? "That would be by negotiation". In other words he doesn't know.
BT have 90% of the network. What McDonnell said was the other companies would have the choice to work with the government or opt out and get compensated instead.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:51 am

AndrewJB wrote:Read Paul Waine’s post above.
With regards paying for it they say the will issue bonds for shares, what coupons will they issue on those bonds, will they be tradeable, will they be borrowing from the markets for the funds to issue the bonds.

And will they take on the pension liability

The reality as every day is going on they are appearing more financially incompetent.

Brown in 1997 promised to follow the Conservative spending plans for 3 years which led to the Budget surplus of around £28bn in 2000 which he used to reduce the National Debt. It was the fianancial competency of the early years of the Blair govt that funded the increase in public spending.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:10 am

So Labour can't even keep their own website safe, but want to take over the internet for the whole country, aye.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:33 am

AndyClaret wrote:So Labour can't even keep their own website safe, but want to take over the internet for the whole country, aye.
I'd not thought of that...

I wonder what the students in Hong Kong would say if the Chinese gov't offered them all free broadband? Would they be a little concerned about the security of their data?
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:24 am

This just about covers it.

https://twitter.com/anthonypainter/stat ... 2922072065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:28 am

Its a good idea to make sure everyone has reliable and decent broadband.

In the modern world we live in (and contrary to the opinion of a few on here, you can't go back) its an exceptionally good idea, especially if we are going to strike out on our own, having everyone with a superb internet connection will help.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:29 am

Paul Waine wrote:I'd not thought of that...

I wonder what the students in Hong Kong would say if the Chinese gov't offered them all free broadband? Would they be a little concerned about the security of their data?

It is a small price to pay for those who in general seem to want everything given to them in life

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:30 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:It is a small price to pay for those who in general seem to want everything given to them in life
HOUSE! HOUSE!

I win Brexit Boomer Bingo today!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:31 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:HOUSE! HOUSE!

I win Brexit Boomer Bingo today!

Not sure I get your response but hopefully the prize is a good one

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:34 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Not sure I get your response but hopefully the prize is a good one
Sadly, the prize is a country in which people who earned about 1/2 the cost of their home when they bought it, had a permanent contract and free education tell us all that we just need to work harder to achieve what they managed.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:36 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Sadly, the prize is a country in which people who earned about 1/2 the cost of their home when they bought it, had a permanent contract and free education tell us all that we just need to work harder to achieve what they managed.

Ahh right, you think I earn half the cost of my house ? I wish I did

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:37 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its a good idea to make sure everyone has reliable and decent broadband.

In the modern world we live in (and contrary to the opinion of a few on here, you can't go back) its an exceptionally good idea, especially if we are going to strike out on our own, having everyone with a superb internet connection will help.
And you trust a Labour Government who can't protect their own website to do this ? Back when BT was a state run company, you had to wait up to 18 months for a phone line.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:37 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Ahh right, you think I earn half the cost of my house ? I wish I did
Your first house.

I'm 46, and my first house cost me double my salary.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:38 am

AndyClaret wrote:And you trust a Labour Government who can't protect their own website to do this ? Back when BT was a state run company, you had to wait up to 18 months for a phone line.
I applaud the idea and its very aspirational.

I'm impressed that you've managed to analyse all the dangers and none of the positives in less than 24 hours.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:40 am

Same age then. My first wage was £61 a week in 1989.

That was for 30+ hours a week, I lasted about 8 months. If only I had known I was so close to buying a house outright

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:41 am

As Prof John Curtice has said, Zero chance of a majority Labour government, it seems the BT share price agrees.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:41 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I applaud the idea and its very aspirational.

I'm impressed that you've managed to analyse all the dangers and none of the positives in less than 24 hours.

I take it you think the Lib Dems are lying then with their response to it.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:45 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I take it you think the Lib Dems are lying then with their response to it.
Having seen anything on it other than the idea to be fair.

I think its an excellent idea.

But its perfectly possible that its a terrible idea that just sounds like a great soundbite.

labours version of "Brexit means Brexit" if you will.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:46 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I applaud the idea and its very aspirational.

I'm impressed that you've managed to analyse all the dangers and none of the positives in less than 24 hours.
Listen to McDonnell's interview on radio 4 at 8:10 this morning, he falls apart like a cheap suit, if Sky, Virgin, talktalk and the rest don't fall in to line then he would take over them as well !

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:48 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Having seen anything on it other than the idea to be fair.

I think its an excellent idea.

But its perfectly possible that its a terrible idea that just sounds like a great soundbite.

labours version of "Brexit means Brexit" if you will.

All ideas are good that involving people getting something for free, reality is always a bit different. Not long ago students were offered free tuition by the very same people only for them to admit once they had lost that they wouldn't have been able to fund it.

If everyone who works for broadband supply companies lose their jobs due it suddenly being given out for free will Santa fund them too whilst out of work.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:50 am

"I think its an excellent idea. 
But its perfectly possible that its a terrible idea that just sounds like a great soundbite. "
Eh ?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:01 am

Andy - proper questioning of politicians and their ideas is very good. That is why election campaigns are great, because people who normally avoid scrutiny like the plague have to face the music. Not one politician has come out well so far, and the likes of Hancock, that Labour bloke and that SNP lad springing to mind straight away as doing particularly bad.

Clareonthecoast1882 - Of course reality is different, all political parties promise more than they can deliver. This is just one that I think is a good idea.

Random - don't understand the "Eh?" to be honest, I thought I was being clear.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:08 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Andy - proper questioning of politicians and their ideas is very good. That is why election campaigns are great, because people who normally avoid scrutiny like the plague have to face the music. Not one politician has come out well so far, and the likes of Hancock, that Labour bloke and that SNP lad springing to mind straight away as doing particularly bad.

Clareonthecoast1882 - Of course reality is different, all political parties promise more than they can deliver. This is just one that I think is a good idea.

Random - don't understand the "Eh?" to be honest, I thought I was being clear.

Very slack replying to 3 people in 1 post :D :D more effort needed (ps I don't know how you reply to more than 1 poster in the same post while quoting them)
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:10 am

AndyClaret wrote:And you trust a Labour Government who can't protect their own website to do this ? Back when BT was a state run company, you had to wait up to 18 months for a phone line.
I'm pretty sure they could protect their own website. It was attacked, it wasn't taken down.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:13 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:All ideas are good that involving people getting something for free, reality is always a bit different. Not long ago students were offered free tuition by the very same people only for them to admit once they had lost that they wouldn't have been able to fund it.

If everyone who works for broadband supply companies lose their jobs due it suddenly being given out for free will Santa fund them too whilst out of work.
I imagine a large number of those who work for broadband supply companies will carry on with the same job for a different boss. In fact if the upgrades happen there might be more jobs.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:13 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:John McDonnell talking about free broadband on Radio 4 this morning. Guy hasn't a clue. As well as taking over BT Open Reach, He hinted they would also have to takeover Virgin Media and other broadband suppliers. How would Labour pay for that? "That would be by negotiation". In other words he doesn't know.
He also said by 2030 - which basically means, by 2040. So in 20 years. Not worth a carrot.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:14 am

The Labour Party appear to be morphing into some sort of 'think tank' political party proposing interesting and thought provoking ideas (32 hour week, mass renationalisation, free broadband for all) which are too far from 2019 reality to be taken that seriously.

Very strange strategy on the eve of a general election.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:28 am

More good news for Johnson

Tommy Robinson is backing him

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1 ... 0484076545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 am

Mala591 wrote:The Labour Party appear to be morphing into some sort of 'think tank' political party proposing interesting and thought provoking ideas (32 hour week, mass renationalisation, free broadband for all) which are too far from 2019 reality to be taken that seriously.

Very strange strategy on the eve of a general election.
Or a realisation that people promising stuff that can't possibly happen actually wins votes?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:31 am

The UK is one of the richest countries in the world and yet when you look at our national infrastructure we are way down the leagues in all sorts of areas. Rail, road, housing and broadband being some of them. I’m not sure the preference for private funding has served us that well and yet when someone comes up with a state funded alternatives they are immediately shot down.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:35 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: If everyone who works for broadband supply companies lose their jobs due it suddenly being given out for free will Santa fund them too whilst out of work.
Why do you imagine everyone will lose their jobs, do you imagine it will run itself? Or do you think Jeremy Corbyn is going to run it from his bedroom. As with most takeovers the same people will be running it but working for the government (or government company).

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:37 am

AndyClaret wrote:And you trust a Labour Government who can't protect their own website to do this ? Back when BT was a state run company, you had to wait up to 18 months for a phone line.
So you imagine the same people running a website will be I’m charge of U.K. wide broadband? Ok!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:41 am

The number of northern working class turkeys voting for Christmas is depressing. Get off your knees for two minutes, Johnson and his type don't give a **** about any of you.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:15 pm

I’m not sure some of the posters on here are northern working class judging by their contributions. As for the likes of Rowls and AndyClaret, I think they are undercover plants from Conservative central office.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:22 pm

RMutt wrote:I’m not sure some of the posters on here are northern working class judging by their contributions. As for the likes of Rowls and AndyClaret, I think they are undercover plants from Conservative central office.
Live in Burnley, working class, in a trade union, but yeah, I'm a Tory.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Live in Burnley, working class, in a trade union, but yeah, I'm a Tory.

What went wrong?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:44 pm

RMutt wrote:What went wrong?
Corbyn, McDonnell, Lammy, Dianne Abbott and Emily Thornberry for starters.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:45 pm

RMutt wrote:What went wrong?
If labour was full of John Mann's, Ian Austin's and Frank Fields I could vote for them, but it isn't.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:56 pm

AndyClaret wrote:If labour was full of John Mann's, Ian Austin's and Frank Fields I could vote for them, but it isn't.
Unfortunately I can never vote for the Conservatives because I've got a disability. They way they treat many people with disabilities, especially those on benefits, has been disgusting, and something that sends a shiver down my spine!
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:09 pm

AndyClaret wrote:If labour was full of John Mann's, Ian Austin's and Frank Fields I could vote for them, but it isn't.
That is how I feel, I live in Rossendale and voted Labour in 97,01 and 05 as I saw them left of centre, business minded knowing that they needed the private sector to grow to fund the public services. The problem with the current lot is that they have an ideological hatred of business, are not patriotic and are proposing spending on a level which the markets will punish with high yields on GILTs
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:11 pm

AndyClaret wrote:If labour was full of John Mann's, Ian Austin's and Frank Fields I could vote for them, but it isn't.
OK, so it’s the semitism/anti- semitism issue? We will have to agree to disagree on that one then. I think John Mann is still in the Labour Party and I don’t think he advocates supporting the Tories does he?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:31 pm

Dy1geo wrote:That is how I feel, I live in Rossendale and voted Labour in 97,01 and 05 as I saw them left of centre, business minded knowing that they needed the private sector to grow to fund the public services. The problem with the current lot is that they have an ideological hatred of business, are not patriotic and are proposing spending on a level which the markets will punish with high yields on GILTs
The biggest corporations operating in the U.K. have had tax gift after tax gift, but invested little in the country. Time for us to stop appeasing them, and make them pay a fair share. Then we don’t have to cross our fingers and hope they’ll invest, because the government will invest it instead.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:49 pm

RMutt wrote:OK, so it’s the semitism/anti- semitism issue? We will have to agree to disagree on that one then. I think John Mann is still in the Labour Party and I don’t think he advocates supporting the Tories does he?
He's gone in the house of lords and is working for the government on anti semitism.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:55 pm

*spoiler alert

All this free stuff isn't free

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:14 pm

Damo wrote:*spoiler alert

All this free stuff isn't free
Correct. Infrastructure investment is typically paid for by taxes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:50 pm

Spiral wrote:Correct. Infrastructure investment is typically paid for by taxes.
Someone should have told the last Labour government...
Liam Byrne - Labour wrote:Dear Chief Secretary, I’m afraid there is no money. Kind regards – and good luck!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:11 pm

New poll for those interested, post Brexit party standing down.
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