General Election Is On

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Paul Waine
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:59 pm

and page 35 - as referenced by AJB.

Replacing Inheritance Tax with a Lifetime Gifts Tax
In the long term we recommend that inheritance tax should be abolished, and replaced with a lifetime gifts tax levied on the recipient, as has recently been proposed by the Resolution Foundation148 and IPPR .149 Under this system, tax would be levied on the gifts received above a lifetime allowance of £125,000. When this lifetime limit is reached, any income from gifts would be taxed annually at the same rate as income derived from labour under the income tax schedule. The Resolution Foundation estimate that taxing gifts through the income tax system would raise £15 billion in 2020/21, £9.2 billion more than the current inheritance tax system, and would do so more progressively.
Under IPPR’s proposal there would be conditional exemptions for business and agricultural property, under which tax could be deferred until the asset is sold or until the business ceases to be a trading entity and becomes an investment entity. This would allow families to maintain the integrity of agricultural land or business assets, but would also prevent inheritees from gaining large tax-free windfall gains. We believe that the cost and benefits of such an exemption need to be considered as part of the post-Brexit redesign of agricultural subsidies . In Chapter 8 we make the case for an English Land Commission to review the tax and subsidy regime for agricultural land, and offer some guidance on the issues to be taken into consideration by such a commission .
Since implementing a lifetime gifts tax may take time, Labour’s plans to reverse the Conservative government’s recent inheritance tax break for main residences is an important interim step .150 Further, we recommend that a tax be introduced for equity withdrawals, which is a key means of avoiding inheritance tax.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Andrew, some questions, if I may.

1) so, is this British Broadband offering all these internet services?
2) Do we shut down BBC, because it's all available over BB? Do we end BBC license fee? I guess that's one way of making sure that over 75s get free licenses;
3) I assume just UK taxpayers? Have we solved the non-UK resident accessing BB services?
4) Is free broadband access for everyone the smartest way to spend money? I assume that the £60bn productivity gains from the BT Openreach article you linked would still be available if we paid for what we wanted. I'm sure that was Openreach's assumption, also.
Why would you shut down the BBC? It’s a content provider and nowhere has Andrew suggested that the government take over content provision. Neither the BBC or Sky own the satellites or tv transmitters used to beam tv pictures into our home now.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:11 pm

dermotdermot wrote:It is common knowledge that Corbyn's Labour party would drastically lower the inheritance tax threshold. Abolishing it altogether and replacing it with a 'gift tax' is just a way of clumsily re-modeling it. God knows how you think that drivel that you've churned up has any logical relevance to this matter, is quite baffling. From what I can see , it has more to do with Mugabe style land grab.
The “drivel” as you call it is the idea by some Labour members for the gift tax you referred to. Now you can either deal with their idea in their words (reality), or stick to the Express version, which is the Labour members idea distorted by that paper - which is made up rubbish.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:16 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Can we make up our minds on whether London is a crime ridden cesspit of immigrants and lowlifes or whether it is some kind of elitist ivory tower paradise where champagne is sipped all day.

Depending on the knuckledraggers hot topic of the day it switches between the two and can be a little confusing
Hi DA, I work in London and live on the commuter fringe. I've also lived in N.East Lancs and later in Manchester. London is a big place, actually, make that a very big place. We are all football fans on this mb (I believe that's accurate). We play Watford next Saturday, Watford is within the London transport travel zone. So, is Stratford and West Ham's London Stadium in the east. Millwall, Charlton and Crystal Palace in the S.East. Wimbledon in the south west. Brentford in the west. Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all nearer to the centre, but all still on the west side. And, then we can finish our circumnavigation with Arsenal in the (inner) north and Tottenham - I'm sure many are looking forward to seeing their new ground in 3 weeks time - in the north east. I should have mentioned Wembley, where we watched Spurs v Burnley last November (am I right on the date?) and where the Claret's Premier League story began with victory a little over 10 years ago. And, London also has room for other sporting venues.

London is all of those - and, of course, it is more. There's even a place near the centre called Westminster. I understand there are some "positions vacant" there at present.

Hope that helps. Yes, there will be some who have been drinking champagne. The London news also featured a 15 year old, reported a promising young footballer, who has just been buried, The second youngest fatal stabbing victim this year. Yes, there is crime in London.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:21 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi DA, I work in London and live on the commuter fringe. I've also lived in N.East Lancs and later in Manchester. London is a big place, actually, make that a very big place. We are all football fans on this mb (I believe that's accurate). We play Watford next Saturday, Watford is within the London transport travel zone. So, is Stratford and West Ham's London Stadium in the east. Millwall, Charlton and Crystal Palace in the S.East. Wimbledon in the south west. Brentford in the west. Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all nearer to the centre, but all still on the west side. And, then we can finish our circumnavigation with Arsenal in the (inner) north and Tottenham - I'm sure many are looking forward to seeing their new ground in 3 weeks time - in the north east. I should have mentioned Wembley, where we watched Spurs v Burnley last November (am I right on the date?) and where the Claret's Premier League story began with victory a little over 10 years ago. And, London also has room for other sporting venues.

London is all of those - and, of course, it is more. There's even a place near the centre called Westminster. I understand there are some "positions vacant" there at present.

Hope that helps. Yes, there will be some who have been drinking champagne. The London news also featured a 15 year old, reported a promising young footballer, who has just been buried, The second youngest fatal stabbing victim this year. Yes, there is crime in London.
I agree so I'll expect to see you on here explaining this to the idiots trying to pigeon hole London and its people to prove the particular point they wish to make that given day - I wont hold my breath though
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dermotdermot » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:23 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The “drivel” as you call it is the idea by some Labour members for the gift tax you referred to. Now you can either deal with their idea in their words (reality), or stick to the Express version, which is the Labour members idea distorted by that paper - which is made up rubbish.
Ah, Labour members. Now I’m beginning to understand. I don’t have much respect for the Express but I think that you’ll find that just about every other paper has reported on this subject in exactly the same way.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 pm

martin_p wrote:Why would you shut down the BBC? It’s a content provider and nowhere has Andrew suggested that the government take over content provision. Neither the BBC or Sky own the satellites or tv transmitters used to beam tv pictures into our home now.
Hi martin, why would anyone pay for BBC, i.e. buy a license, if they can get all the content they need via the free at the point of use BB service?

I get my broadband thru BT now. It includes their football and other stuff - not that I use it often. My BT Box (youview, I think it's called) broke down last week. If this was the case with JC/JMcD's new free BB how long would I have to wait to get it fixed - or a new one installed?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:30 pm

Yep, nailed it

"Racist thug and convicted criminal Tommy Robinson - endorses Boris Johnson on Russian propaganda channel RT. And the circle of Brexit is complete"

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:30 pm

AndrewJB wrote:This was said about the NHS. Go back far enough and you’ll find the arguments against ending slavery had a similar tone; “it would be nice, but a financial folly!”

I think the government could and should go further on this, and provide every house with a simple compute device with a keyboard and a screen, along with some cloud storage, should people need this, so that everyone has access and the means to take advantage of the internet. But there you go. Perhaps the big thing for the country is in making us a 1st world nation when it comes to the internet. That’s something the private sector has failed with over two decades.

On the other side of the coin, we have the Tories offering tax cuts to higher earners, while many people are still suffering austerity. At least the free broadband will be for everyone.
They could go even further and install a tv in every house with a picture of Corbyns face on, and broadcast 2 minutes hate each day, where we can all watch as one. One glorious, mighty state

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:30 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, why would anyone pay for BBC, i.e. buy a license, if they can get all the content they need via the free at the point of use BB service?

I get my broadband thru BT now. It includes their football and other stuff - not that I use it often. My BT Box (youview, I think it's called) broke down last week. If this was the case with JC/JMcD's new free BB how long would I have to wait to get it fixed - or a new one installed?
You seem to be confusing content provision with infrastructure. You don’t pay your tv licence for tv transmitters, satellites or even broadband you current use to watch BBC programmes, why would that change?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:32 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I agree so I'll expect to see you on here explaining this to the idiots trying to pigeon hole London and its people to prove the particular point they wish to make that given day - I wont hold my breath though
There are a number of people who post on here who allow their political positions to "colour" the facts. From my perspective their views cover every political position you could imagine. The best advice I can give is "get out in the fresh air more." However, if JC/JMcD are in a position where they can give us all broadband for free, I can imagine a lot more will be "tied" to their (free) keyboards.

Enough for me this evening - and for the rest of the w/end. More fun things to do.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:36 pm

Paul Waine wrote:There are a number of people who post on here who allow their political positions to "colour" the facts. From my perspective their views cover every political position you could imagine. The best advice I can give is "get out in the fresh air more." However, if JC/JMcD are in a position where they can give us all broadband for free, I can imagine a lot more will be "tied" to their (free) keyboards.

Enough for me this evening - and for the rest of the w/end. More fun things to do.
I was right not to hold my breath then

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:39 pm

martin_p wrote:You seem to be confusing content provision with infrastructure. You don’t pay your tv licence for tv transmitters, satellites or even broadband you current use to watch BBC programmes, why would that change?
Hi martin, I think you've missed my point - or maybe you've not read what Andrew has posted. BB will provide free broadband - and Andrew suggests it should also provide free content - with the taxpayer paying for the content. So, why would anyone also buy a tv license if, as taxpayers we are already paying for content through BB?

Btw, how are the tv transmitters paid for? And, didn't Sky start with the name "sky" because they did use satellites and provided the satellite dishes so that we could watch Sky? How did we pay for Sky back then?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:41 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Enough for me this evening - and for the rest of the w/end. More fun things to do.
Good weekend was it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I was right not to hold my breath then
I think I suggested getting some fresh air (and maybe some exercise) - so, no, best not to hold your breath, it's not recommended for good health. ;)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:43 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Good weekend was it?
I couldn't leave my friend, martin, hanging.

And, it would not be courteous of me to leave you without a polite "good night." :)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:46 pm

Paul Waine wrote:I think I suggested getting some fresh air (and maybe some exercise) - so, no, best not to hold your breath, it's not recommended for good health. ;)
Ive played footy tonight already so dont worry bout me. Dont want to keep you from those fun things so I'll leave you alone now :)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:46 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Andrew, some questions, if I may.

1) so, is this British Broadband offering all these internet services?
2) Do we shut down BBC, because it's all available over BB? Do we end BBC license fee? I guess that's one way of making sure that over 75s get free licenses;
3) I assume just UK taxpayers? Have we solved the non-UK resident accessing BB services?
4) Is free broadband access for everyone the smartest way to spend money? I assume that the £60bn productivity gains from the BT Openreach article you linked would still be available if we paid for what we wanted. I'm sure that was Openreach's assumption, also.
I'm going beyond British Broadband - which is just the network infrastructure - and looking at a digital platform much the same as the BBC already has (and other subscriber platforms). It could be just limited to UK residents, or could be made available overseas - just as I log in to spotify abroad and continue to listen to music, or it could be made available on subscription to people outside the UK, or include local advertising content, or some combination of all of those things.

As for free broadband access for everyone being the smartest way to spend money, the answer to that would be; is broadband under such a system cheaper per household than it is now? Would roads be cheaper if they were all privatised and you paid for driving over them, than what you currently pay in tax to maintain them?

In a nutshell, Labour is proposing to nationalise the infrastructure in the UK in order to expand it across the country. Johnson's plan is to spend our money to improve the infrastructure for private owners to profit from.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:53 pm

dermotdermot wrote:Ah, Labour members. Now I’m beginning to understand. I don’t have much respect for the Express but I think that you’ll find that just about every other paper has reported on this subject in exactly the same way.
The link I provided gives you the policy ideas by Labour members in their own words, so by all means go to town and take it apart. It's not even official Labour policy, so it's not honest to say "this and this and this will happen" - especially when you've based it on the biased critique of a media outlet that may well lie about a lot of things (see the EU fake news of UK newspapers thread).

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:57 pm

Evening all, brief comment from me.

I still think the appeal of Corbynomics is underestimated and Corbyn is closer to No. 10 than many think. This is the only reason Johnson is in power of course, he is the proven winner. The Tories last hope. That’s why they held their nose and made him PM. It will probably work, but it may not.

The trouble with Corbynomcs is the overall irrationality. Individually many policies make sense.

Free broadband sounds brilliant, Japan have had it for years.
A huge welfare state also sound brilliant, France have had it for years.
Fast modern transport sounds brilliant, China have had it for years.
Healthcare with no upfront payments sounds brilliant, Germany have had it for years.

The trouble is, nobody has all of them. Corbyn is implying we can. How? Who will pay for it? In Japan for example, over half of pensioners live with their children and they have a low welfare state spend. We are far too selfish for that. It is all take and no give. It cannot work, but we have a chance of voting for it. Everyone likes a free lunch.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:36 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Evening all, brief comment from me.

I still think the appeal of Corbynomics is underestimated and Corbyn is closer to No. 10 than many think. This is the only reason Johnson is in power of course, he is the proven winner. The Tories last hope. That’s why they held their nose and made him PM. It will probably work, but it may not.

The trouble with Corbynomcs is the overall irrationality. Individually many policies make sense.

Free broadband sounds brilliant, Japan have had it for years.
A huge welfare state also sound brilliant, France have had it for years.
Fast modern transport sounds brilliant, China have had it for years.
Healthcare with no upfront payments sounds brilliant, Germany have had it for years.

The trouble is, nobody has all of them. Corbyn is implying we can. How? Who will pay for it? In Japan for example, over half of pensioners live with their children and they have a low welfare state spend. We are far too selfish for that. It is all take and no give. It cannot work, but we have a chance of voting for it. Everyone likes a free lunch.
How are these things paid for in the UK already? We pay a lot right now for privately owned broadband services that cover only five percent of the country to a first world level. We pay a lot for welfare services that have continually failed our poorest citizens and enriched privately owned service providers. We pay the most per mile of any country in Europe for privately run rail travel with service so bad commuter protests have been held. And we have a healthcare system in which people diagnosed with cancer have had to wait sixty-two days before their follow-up appointments (and this also has an increasing private outsourcing or provision).

The overall irrationality with our current system as it stands should be quite obvious. Some things need to come back under public ownership - if only so we take back control and get the outcome we want; whether that be first world broadband across the whole country, welfare services that don't lead to people committing suicide in despair, a train system that gets people to work on time and doesn't rival their mortgage payments, and a healthcare system in which we have the right number of doctors and nurses.

We are all paying for these low quality services right now at top end prices - because the providers of the services are in business to make money. If your monthly tax bill goes up by a hundred pounds as a result of this, but you see your personal expenditure on the same go down by a hundred and twenty pounds a month, then you're quids in. And if the level of service improves - and there are plenty of examples of this happening (the East Coast Mainline twice, or the probation service) then that's even better.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:38 am

AndrewJB wrote:How are these things paid for in the UK already? We pay a lot right now for privately owned broadband services that cover only five percent of the country to a first world level. We pay a lot for welfare services that have continually failed our poorest citizens and enriched privately owned service providers. We pay the most per mile of any country in Europe for privately run rail travel with service so bad commuter protests have been held. And we have a healthcare system in which people diagnosed with cancer have had to wait sixty-two days before their follow-up appointments (and this also has an increasing private outsourcing or provision).

The overall irrationality with our current system as it stands should be quite obvious. Some things need to come back under public ownership - if only so we take back control and get the outcome we want; whether that be first world broadband across the whole country, welfare services that don't lead to people committing suicide in despair, a train system that gets people to work on time and doesn't rival their mortgage payments, and a healthcare system in which we have the right number of doctors and nurses.

We are all paying for these low quality services right now at top end prices - because the providers of the services are in business to make money. If your monthly tax bill goes up by a hundred pounds as a result of this, but you see your personal expenditure on the same go down by a hundred and twenty pounds a month, then you're quids in. And if the level of service improves - and there are plenty of examples of this happening (the East Coast Mainline twice, or the probation service) then that's even better.
Good post & valid points raised, just don't hyperbole too much it tends to diminish the sincerity of the post.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:38 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Your hero Tommeh has endorsed the Tory Party.
Whereas the BNP and the klu Klux Klan have endorsed the raving anti semite, Corbyn.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:17 am

AndyClaret wrote:Whereas the BNP and the klu Klux Klan have endorsed the raving anti semite, Corbyn.
If that was true you would really struggle where to put the X on the ballot paper.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:36 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:If that was true you would really struggle where to put the X on the ballot paper.
Oh it's true, are you going to denounce your mate Corbers ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb1e ... 6c4c87b639" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:05 am

I for one welcome our new racist backed overlords

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by IanMcL » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:12 am

dermotdermot wrote:Ah, Labour members. Now I’m beginning to understand. I don’t have much respect for the Express but I think that you’ll find that just about every other paper has reported on this subject in exactly the same way.
You mean the tory press?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:01 am

AndrewJB wrote:How are these things paid for in the UK already? We pay a lot right now for privately owned broadband services that cover only five percent of the country to a first world level. We pay a lot for welfare services that have continually failed our poorest citizens and enriched privately owned service providers. We pay the most per mile of any country in Europe for privately run rail travel with service so bad commuter protests have been held. And we have a healthcare system in which people diagnosed with cancer have had to wait sixty-two days before their follow-up appointments (and this also has an increasing private outsourcing or provision).

The overall irrationality with our current system as it stands should be quite obvious. Some things need to come back under public ownership - if only so we take back control and get the outcome we want; whether that be first world broadband across the whole country, welfare services that don't lead to people committing suicide in despair, a train system that gets people to work on time and doesn't rival their mortgage payments, and a healthcare system in which we have the right number of doctors and nurses.

We are all paying for these low quality services right now at top end prices - because the providers of the services are in business to make money. If your monthly tax bill goes up by a hundred pounds as a result of this, but you see your personal expenditure on the same go down by a hundred and twenty pounds a month, then you're quids in. And if the level of service improves - and there are plenty of examples of this happening (the East Coast Mainline twice, or the probation service) then that's even better.
And THAT is why I said Corbynomics has some appeal to many people.

Many feel that public ownership will make things better by eliminating the profit incentive, others feel it would make things worse by removing competition.

p.s. I would be interested to know if the public spending supporters like yourself believe in a culture change, where, for example, we should be helping support our elderly parents and not simply giving them a decent sized pension to live in isolation with. That would free up huge welfare payments, solve the housing crisis and fund these other initiatives. But it would require sacrifice and responsibility from working age people.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:57 am

AndyClaret wrote:Whereas the BNP and the klu Klux Klan have endorsed the raving anti semite, Corbyn.
Well they have one thing in common both have been formally investigated by the EHRC for institutional racism.

Labour can bury their head in the sand,but this issue isn't going away.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/general-elect ... 00200.html

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:11 am

tiger76 wrote:Well they have one thing in common both have been formally investigated by the EHRC for institutional racism.

Labour can bury their head in the sand,but this issue isn't going away.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/general-elect ... 00200.html
Lots on that list aren’t Labour supporters anyway. It’s like me saying I won’t vote Tory because of Johnson’s racism.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:28 am

martin_p wrote:Lots on that list aren’t Labour supporters anyway. It’s like me saying I won’t vote Tory because of Johnson’s racism.
Both of the big parties have issues Labour (anti-semitism) the Conservatives (Islamophobia) it does make you wonder how much lower UK politics has to sink into the gutter before either will confront their demons head on,it appears that they are both adopting an ostrich mentality and hoping it will just go away,that's wishful thinking from both.they have to grasp the nettle and deal with incidents in a prompt manner,before the public can take them seriously,paying lip service to these allegations isn't enough,ultimately it requires strong leadership from both Corbyn and Johnson to root out wrong-doers.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:48 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Whereas the BNP and the klu Klux Klan have endorsed the raving anti semite, Corbyn.
You should know by now this isn’t true:

https://evolvepolitics.com/murdochs-lat ... ial-facts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The way Johnson resorts to dog whistle racism will make him David Dukes man.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:38 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:And THAT is why I said Corbynomics has some appeal to many people.

Many feel that public ownership will make things better by eliminating the profit incentive, others feel it would make things worse by removing competition.

p.s. I would be interested to know if the public spending supporters like yourself believe in a culture change, where, for example, we should be helping support our elderly parents and not simply giving them a decent sized pension to live in isolation with. That would free up huge welfare payments, solve the housing crisis and fund these other initiatives. But it would require sacrifice and responsibility from working age people.
We don’t have real competition in the areas we’ve been discussing. You can’t choose a different water or train company because there isn’t one. You can choose between different broadband companies, but they all run over BT lines (which were built by taxpayer money. I’m all for choice and competition, but I don’t see the point in areas like education, health, social care, or electricity and gas - the desired outcome being the same in all instances. To introduce competition into those areas means having more than we need, which is inefficient. Without competition, there’s no point in making profit the central aim, and therefore it’s pointless being in private hands.

I believe in charity, and family helping out, but the state should always be there as a last resort. We all love and adore our children, and those of us who have them would do anything for our grandchildren - but we are all destined one day to have a descendent who is disabled, or makes bad choices, or unlucky in work or the housing market, and wouldn’t it be better to have a society that ensures these people all have decent and fulfilling lives? We can only get this by building a society that looks after everyone, and treats everyone as equal in value.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:46 pm

AndrewJB wrote:We don’t have real competition in the areas we’ve been discussing. You can’t choose a different water or train company because there isn’t one. You can choose between different broadband companies, but they all run over BT lines (which were built by taxpayer money. I’m all for choice and competition, but I don’t see the point in areas like education, health, social care, or electricity and gas - the desired outcome being the same in all instances. To introduce competition into those areas means having more than we need, which is inefficient. Without competition, there’s no point in making profit the central aim, and therefore it’s pointless being in private hands.

I believe in charity, and family helping out, but the state should always be there as a last resort. We all love and adore our children, and those of us who have them would do anything for our grandchildren - but we are all destined one day to have a descendent who is disabled, or makes bad choices, or unlucky in work or the housing market, and wouldn’t it be better to have a society that ensures these people all have decent and fulfilling lives? We can only get this by building a society that looks after everyone, and treats everyone as equal in value.
Choice and competition is essential in health and social care. No two ways about it.

aggi
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:And THAT is why I said Corbynomics has some appeal to many people.

Many feel that public ownership will make things better by eliminating the profit incentive, others feel it would make things worse by removing competition.

p.s. I would be interested to know if the public spending supporters like yourself believe in a culture change, where, for example, we should be helping support our elderly parents and not simply giving them a decent sized pension to live in isolation with. That would free up huge welfare payments, solve the housing crisis and fund these other initiatives. But it would require sacrifice and responsibility from working age people.
If you want to get a train from Burnley though you don't have competition, it's Northern Rail or nothing (although quite often it's Northern Rail and nothing).

Same with broadband, if your bt line speed is slow then your internet is probably slow as the vast majority of providers have to use it.

It's difficult to get true competition in a lot of these areas as the infrastructure costs are so high that all the competition is actually sharing one set.

Would you be in favour of privatisation of the road network?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:17 pm

Was out again this morning.
Met some great Burnley people on the doorstep.
had some great interesting conversations and everyone was polite at least to me.
Again it was very positive, apart from one person who chased two friends off his drive similar to some Facebook posts.

More people answered the door today, but it was a more affluent area of Burnley.

There were
15 Brexitparty voters
22 undecided
6 Tories
2 Labour
About 10 who are not going to vote.


When you look at national polls it’s not being replicated on the doorstep in Burnley.

When I used to do this for Labour, your gut feeling over weeks of door knocking was normally close to the result you got.

This is an unusual election, and national issue will influence people.

tiger76
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:45 pm

Labour rumoured to be considering extending FOM,"Clause Five" meeting ongoing just now,if they go down that road it will be a hard sell in many leave voting areas,and such a change in policy direction could be a godsend for the Conservatives and the Brexit Party in those seats,whatever the national picture this election will throw up some curveballs.

This titbit from another website might cause Julie Cooper some concern.

A couple of snippets .... the BPIP Candidates team think they may be taking predominantly Labour voters. Gordon Birtwistle, the Liberal Democrat former MP ( 2010-15 ), is fighting his 7th General Election campaign in Burnley since 1992. His social media pages are reporting a receptive audience to his message, and the Conservatives are apparently privately surprised at the level of support they're receiving in early campaigning ....

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:18 pm

tiger76 wrote:Labour rumoured to be considering extending FOM,"Clause Five" meeting ongoing just now,if they go down that road it will be a hard sell in many leave voting areas,and such a change in policy direction could be a godsend for the Conservatives and the Brexit Party in those seats,whatever the national picture this election will throw up some curveballs.

This titbit from another website might cause Julie Cooper some concern.

A couple of snippets .... the BPIP Candidates team think they may be taking predominantly Labour voters. Gordon Birtwistle, the Liberal Democrat former MP ( 2010-15 ), is fighting his 7th General Election campaign in Burnley since 1992. His social media pages are reporting a receptive audience to his message, and the Conservatives are apparently privately surprised at the level of support they're receiving in early campaigning ....

Having been on the streets, Labour voters seem in very short supply, but trying to be balanced, I make sure the BP rosette can be seen through a window so they don’t need to answer.
No one has said Lib Dem so far, see above.
We are talking to a lot of leavers unsure between BP and Tory.

Now we log everyone who is unsure as unsure. They might log that different.

Anyway my current prognosis is it’s going to be bloody close.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Having been on the streets, Labour voters seem in very short supply, but trying to be balanced, I make sure the BP rosette can be seen through a window so they don’t need to answer.
No one has said Lib Dem so far, see above.
We are talking to a lot of leavers unsure between BP and Tory.

Now we log everyone who is unsure as unsure. They might log that different.

Anyway my current prognosis is it’s going to be bloody close.
I'd stock up on the cocoa if i were you,it could be a long night at the count,or maybe even recounts :)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:30 pm

tiger76 wrote:I'd stock up on the cocoa if i were you,it could be a long night at the count,or maybe even recounts :)

I have no idea how this is going to go.

But it’s not feeling like a Labour landslide.

I was interested that she launched her campaign at the Turf and claimed she is a season ticket holder. That I don’t believe. Or she claimed it on expenses. Never seen her walking around before a game.
However Stewart is a season ticket holder, used to have a corp box, and goes to loads of away games.
But we are reluctant to use BFC as a political pawn so will not be putting that out there like Julie has.


Any BFC supporter seen her at the turf???

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:39 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I have no idea how this is going to go.

But it’s not feeling like a Labour landslide.

I was interested that she launched her campaign at the Turf and claimed she is a season ticket holder. That I don’t believe. Or she claimed it on expenses. Never seen her walking around before a game.
However Stewart is a season ticket holder, used to have a corp box, and goes to loads of away games.
But we are reluctant to use BFC as a political pawn so will not be putting that out there like Julie has.


Any BFC supporter seen her at the turf???
You can't help yourself from telling us he's a Burnley fan. But I can see how reluctant you are to do so.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:45 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:You can't help yourself from telling us he's a Burnley fan. But I can see how reluctant you are to do so.

Well yes, but Julie who never goes , launched her campaign from Turf Moor claiming she was a season ticket holder.

I will ask again who has ever seen her there??

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CleggHall » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:10 pm

Lowbank - what is the point of knocking on people's doors and collecting the sort of information you have posted above?
Power to your elbow but does it have any effect and have you ever convinced anyone to vote for your chosen party?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:35 pm

CleggHall wrote:Lowbank - what is the point of knocking on people's doors and collecting the sort of information you have posted above?
Power to your elbow but does it have any effect and have you ever convinced anyone to vote for your chosen party?
Yes I think two people agreed to change today based on our chats. But will they on the 12th, who knows.

Whilst that not common to be fair as national news normally prevails.

But when you look at the Brexit candidate who lost the local election by one vote, you can make a difference.

Some people can be influenced by the fact that someone actually knocked on their door and engaged with them instead of just feeling ignored.

Being honest, I really enjoyed having the debate with people today. No nastiness, just good honest Burnley people who had a view.
This user liked this post: CleggHall

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:45 pm

CleggHall wrote:Lowbank - what is the point of knocking on people's doors and collecting the sort of information you have posted above?
Power to your elbow but does it have any effect and have you ever convinced anyone to vote for your chosen party?
So I know it’s a different time.
When I did this for my mum trying to be a county councillor.
Knocked at one door when Mum was trying to be a local councillor.
This old lady said she would vote if we fixed next door which was derelict and the roof had fallen in causing her bedroom to be damp .
When Mum got in we went back a few weeks later, the lady was amazed we came back.
My mum got the house compulsory purchased, and sold by auction with a time limit on fixing the roof.
The lady got in the local paper saying what had been done.
That plus a farmers cows **** getting into people’s homes being sorted.

How’s of there are issues Local issue Stewart can get involved in sorting, I know he will .

That might in time get people on his side.

But this is all about Brexit, so in that it’s different.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by LoveCurryPies » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:03 pm

AndrewJB wrote:BT have 90% of the network. What McDonnell said was the other companies would have the choice to work with the government or opt out and get compensated instead.
It depends which of the interviews you heard. He has definitely said if other broadband companies don’t want to assist, they too will be taken over. Don’t take my word for that, I’m sure many news sites recorded it.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:08 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:You can't help yourself from telling us he's a Burnley fan. But I can see how reluctant you are to do so.
It's more constructive perhaps to focus on what you have to offer for yourself, the continuous arsey retorts will only have so much mileage on a progressive front.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:23 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So I know it’s a different time.
When I did this for my mum trying to be a county councillor.
Knocked at one door when Mum was trying to be a local councillor.
This old lady said she would vote if we fixed next door which was derelict and the roof had fallen in causing her bedroom to be damp .
When Mum got in we went back a few weeks later, the lady was amazed we came back.
My mum got the house compulsory purchased, and sold by auction with a time limit on fixing the roof.
The lady got in the local paper saying what had been done.
That plus a farmers cows **** getting into people’s homes being sorted.

How’s of there are issues Local issue Stewart can get involved in sorting, I know he will .

That might in time get people on his side.

But this is all about Brexit, so in that it’s different.
Your mum got a house compulsory purchased and sold at auction in a few weeks and it was in the paper? I don’t want to call complete BS but a link to the report would be good.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:25 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:It depends which of the interviews you heard. He has definitely said if other broadband companies don’t want to assist, they too will be taken over. Don’t take my word for that, I’m sure many news sites recorded it.
perhaps that’s what he meant by opting out for compensation?
I doubt it’ll spell the end of private companies in the sector. I’ve worked in this side of IT, and providing companies with a second line into their building from a different direction is very lucrative, and something niche enough I can’t see BB dealing with.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Top Claret » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:33 pm

Tories 44% yr lot 29% so the todays opinion polls say.
Let's hope the good news continues for the sake of our country

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