General Election Is On

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aggi
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Top Claret wrote:Don't we all
There's a few on here who are a bit mealy mouthed about their racism but it's good to see that Top Claret doesn't try and hide the fact that he's a racist ****.

AndrewJB
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:01 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Here come the Corbyn apologists with their whataboutary.
Johnson says racist things, in print and in public.Corbyn has been part of the fight against racism. Rather than attempting to smear Corbyn, why don’t you be positive and dig up an example of Johnson’s crusade against racism?

AndyClaret
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:28 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Johnson says racist things, in print and in public.Corbyn has been part of the fight against racism. Rather than attempting to smear Corbyn, why don’t you be positive and dig up an example of Johnson’s crusade against racism?
A smear from the Guardian :lol:

RMutt
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:52 pm

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... erspective" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bfcjg
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by bfcjg » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:56 pm

Jewish and Hindu community leaders have advised against voting for labour that must be a cause for concern.
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Paul Waine
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:01 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Ive played footy tonight already so dont worry bout me. Dont want to keep you from those fun things so I'll leave you alone now :)
Hi DA, back on mb Sunday evening. Pleased you'd played football. Did you win? Good result for Nick Pope - clean sheet on first England start. Can't be bad.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:06 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I'm going beyond British Broadband - which is just the network infrastructure - and looking at a digital platform much the same as the BBC already has (and other subscriber platforms). It could be just limited to UK residents, or could be made available overseas - just as I log in to spotify abroad and continue to listen to music, or it could be made available on subscription to people outside the UK, or include local advertising content, or some combination of all of those things.

As for free broadband access for everyone being the smartest way to spend money, the answer to that would be; is broadband under such a system cheaper per household than it is now? Would roads be cheaper if they were all privatised and you paid for driving over them, than what you currently pay in tax to maintain them?

In a nutshell, Labour is proposing to nationalise the infrastructure in the UK in order to expand it across the country. Johnson's plan is to spend our money to improve the infrastructure for private owners to profit from.
Hi Andrew, does you road comparison work? I'm not aware of the UK state owned civil engineering and road construction company. And, don't we all pay rather a lot to put a car on the UK's roads - unless you've gone zero emissions/ev? Of course, maybe I've got something wrong here.... maybe the installation of fibre will be done by the private sector, paid for by state owned Openreach - or should that be "Overreach? ;)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Top Claret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:08 pm

AndrewJB wrote:This is copied from Natalie Rowe’s Twitter account: “LET ME REMIND EVERYONE. I was at a Party in the early 90’s where #BorisJohnson came up to me making Monkey noises and tried to hand me a Water Melon. If you think that’s he’s fit to be PM then you’re as much of a racist PIG as he is” - did you ever think we’d one day have a PM as awful as we do?

This fella is barking mad.

Have you seen the polls Andrew? We hopefully won't see another Labour government for a very long time.
The people have not forgotten how Labour trashed the economy last time they got their grubby hands on the purse strings.
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Paul Waine
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:12 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... am-1145468

So here is a link Burnley Ace.

Now what’s never gunna be said.

I was doing a quality statistics in engineering qualification when she took over the school.

I did loads of stats that proved I could precinct grades from 9th grade and get results at GCSE almost correct within statistical variation.

I could also show which teachers were improving students and those who were not.

I worked with my Mum to use to stats to bring her school in to the top ten. Simplistic but not going into all the detail.

Now all schools are judged on stats I started,which got my Mums pupils to the great heights it did.
Hi Lowbank, congratulations to your mother. Yes, I know it's almost 2 decades ago. You are right to be proud of her success in education.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:19 pm

Top Claret wrote:This fella is barking mad.

Have you seen the polls Andrew? We hopefully won't see another Labour government for a very long time.
The people have not forgotten how Labour trashed the economy last time they got their grubby hands on the purse strings.

Unless you explain your earlier post, no one is going to take seriously Top Claret.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:36 pm

What’s to explain?

He’s been vocal on the subject for years.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:58 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lowbank, congratulations to your mother. Yes, I know it's almost 2 decades ago. You are right to be proud of her success in education.

Cheers Paul,

Bit surprised I am not being challenged to prove it’s my mother.
She devoted her life to that School and it’s children.
She is in her late 70’s now and is still helping out in education in Manchester, unpaid now. Her drive to help the youth of this country is undiminished.

What I will say say is it’s all about a team, she built a great team of people at her School.

Apparently I have to take her Dame medals back to the palace when she passes, or I will get visit!!!

I have been lucky to work with good teams, the picture of the award was another big team effort.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TVC15 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:23 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Lowbank, while I can't defend Julie Cooper for letting down the leave voters in Burnley, I can say with certainty that she’s on the game
Hells teeth

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Volvoclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:50 pm

So that's how the Labour party is funded

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by LoveCurryPies » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:04 pm

Conservatives don’t understand the needs of the country. They keep talking about we need highly skilled and innovative people.

Actually the UK’s businesses need waiters, chefs, NHS staff, Farm labourers, factory workers, cleaners.

What the Conservatives need to say is we don’t need people coming to this country to live off social security and council housing. Scroungers.

Personally, I think most migrants are really hard working people and here to build a better life for their families.

Maybe we should export a few if our home grown lazy *****

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:14 pm

aggi wrote:There's a few on here who are a bit mealy mouthed about their racism but it's good to see that Top Claret doesn't try and hide the fact that he's a racist ****.
On a day to day basis, it's sometimes easy to forget it's still out there, isn't it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Has anyone else seen the article in the Financial Times where our Tory government who want Brexit have applied for an EU grant for the floods... I wonder if Alanis Morissette could work that into a song for us...?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:55 pm

Well you oughta know
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:01 pm

Top Claret wrote:This fella is barking mad.

Have you seen the polls Andrew? We hopefully won't see another Labour government for a very long time.
The people have not forgotten how Labour trashed the economy last time they got their grubby hands on the purse strings.
There was a worldwide financial crisis, over ten years ago. This government tripled the debt Labour left (tripled!), and smashed up people’s lives with austerity. How we are now is entirely down to the choices made by Cameron and May, and I’m disappointed a lot of people would vote for the same bad stewardship, but the election isn’t over yet.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:08 pm

AndrewJB wrote:There was a worldwide financial crisis, over ten years ago. This government tripled the debt Labour left (tripled!), and smashed up people’s lives with austerity. How we are now is entirely down to the choices made by Cameron and May, and I’m disappointed a lot of people would vote for the same bad stewardship, but the election isn’t over yet.
The good news for the Tories is that everyone will have forgotten the question ‘what exactly did we get out of austerity’ as it will be replaced with ‘what exactly did we get out of Brexit’? I am of course excluding the rich from these questions as they’ve clearly done very well out of the former and can’t wait for the latter.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:09 pm

AndrewJB wrote:There was a worldwide financial crisis, over ten years ago. This government tripled the debt Labour left (tripled!), and smashed up people’s lives with austerity. How we are now is entirely down to the choices made by Cameron and May, and I’m disappointed a lot of people would vote for the same bad stewardship, but the election isn’t over yet.
Do you honestly think such an increase in debt wasn't necessary? Do you really believe that while at the same time being heavily critical of austerity to bring the annual deficit under control?

And can you provide the debt figure in 09/10 and the debt now to show how it has tripled.
Last edited by taio on Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:20 pm

taio wrote:Do you honestly think such an increase in debt wasn't necessary? Do you really believe that while at the same time being heavily critical of austerity to bring the annual deficit under control?
Also the debt doubled in just 4 years before the Tories got into power.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:24 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Also the debt doubled in just 4 years before the Tories got into power.
And I don't think in tripled under the Tories.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:25 pm

taio wrote:And I don't think in tripled under the Tories.
No, it's just less than doubled in 9 years.

Edit - less
Last edited by Bin Ont Turf on Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:26 pm

taio wrote:Do you honestly think such an increase in debt wasn't necessary? Do you really believe that while at the same time being heavily critical of austerity to bring the annual deficit under control?

And can you provide the debt figure in 09/10 and the debt now to show how it has tripled.
In 2010 the Tories promised to eradicate the defect by 2015 so debt should have stopped going up then. We were supposed to be paying our debts off by now as we’d ‘maxed out the credit card’.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:30 pm

martin_p wrote:In 2010 the Tories promised to eradicate the defect by 2015 so debt should have stopped going up then. We were supposed to be paying our debts off by now as we’d ‘maxed out the credit card’.
And they didnt because it proved to be a monumental challenge. I'm not surprised they didnt eliminate the deficit by 2015. I wouldn't have wanted them to cut public spending to the extent required to do that.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:31 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:No, it's just less than doubled in 9 years.

Edit - less
Cheers. Thought it sounded like bullshit.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:32 pm

taio wrote:And they didnt because it proved to be a monumental challenge. I'm not surprised they didnt eliminate the deficit by 2015. I wouldn't have wanted them to cut public spending to the extent required to do that.
Then in 2015 we were promised we’d bee in surplus by 2020. We won’t be, which is why that target was quietly abandoned. So what have we got for austerity.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:32 pm

martin_p wrote:Then in 2015 we were promised we’d bee in surplus by 2020. We won’t be, which is why that target was quietly abandoned. So what have we got for austerity.
Less debt.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:33 pm

taio wrote:Less debt.
As has been posted above, debt has doubled since 2010. That’s not really ‘less’ is it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:36 pm

martin_p wrote:As has been posted above, debt has doubled since 2010. That’s not really ‘less’ is it?
It hasn't doubled either. Debt would have been more without austerity. So, yes, less debt. Without austerity it might have doubled or even tripled.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:41 pm

taio wrote:It hasn't doubled either. Debt would have been more without austerity. So, yes, less debt. Without austerity it might have doubled or even tripled.
Probably would have quadrupled the way Labour were going on in the early 2000's.

Not that I am or ever have been a Tory or a supporter/voter of them.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:42 pm

taio wrote:It hasn't doubled either. Debt would have been more without austerity. So, yes, less debt. Without austerity it might have doubled or even tripled.
Without austerity the economy would probably have grown faster giving the government bigger tax receipts, so it’s impossible to say either way. One thing is for certain, it hasn’t done what it was claimed it would do, either in 2010 or 2015.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:46 pm

martin_p wrote:Without austerity the economy would probably have grown faster giving the government bigger tax receipts, so it’s impossible to say either way. One thing is for certain, it hasn’t done what it was claimed it would do, either in 2010 or 2015.

Probably? Then you say it's impossible to know. Given your concern about borrowing I presume you are opposed to Labour's proposed and extreme borrowing plans.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:02 am

martin_p wrote:As has been posted above, debt has doubled since 2010. That’s not really ‘less’ is it?
It's a widespread misconception. So-called"austerity" was never intended to repay the national debt. It was supposed to balance the books so that debt stopped increasing. The Tories/Coalition inherited a huge balance of payments deficit from Gordon brown and that deficit is what they were trying to eliminate; not the debt brought forward.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:04 am

AndrewJB wrote:There was a worldwide financial crisis, over ten years ago. This government tripled the debt Labour left (tripled!), and smashed up people’s lives with austerity. How we are now is entirely down to the choices made by Cameron and May, and I’m disappointed a lot of people would vote for the same bad stewardship, but the election isn’t over yet.
Andrew I hate to point out facts but Labour overspending contributed to the 10.6% budget deficit in 2010. In 2000 after following Conservative spending pledges we had a Budget surplus which Brown used to pay off debt and the debt to GDP and in his budget political broadcast in 2000 Brown extolled the virtue of paying off debt to save on interest payments. Between 2000 and 2005 the Brown budgets were pretty prudent and we had gradual increases in public expenditure but after 2005 this ramped up largely due to rising tax receipts from the financial sector which was deregulated in the early part of the century. Expenditure rose from around £341bn in 2000 to £671bn in 2009-10. Yes the financial crash was the reason the tax receipts dried up but the Labour govt from 2005 became too reliant on the financial services tax receipts.

The Tories have not run a budget surplus but the deficit has reduced to around 1.2% of GDP. (Maastricht is 3%)

The danger is the spending that Labour is proposing largely on the back of borrowing will push the deficit up and if they are unable to borrow on the favourable rates the market are giving at present debt repayments as a % of GDP will rocket and the austerity we have seen since 2010 will be minuscule compared to the cuts that will have to be made if the markets punish the Labour government and we have a recession.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:18 am

dsr wrote:It's a widespread misconception. So-called"austerity" was never intended to repay the national debt. It was supposed to balance the books so that debt stopped increasing. The Tories/Coalition inherited a huge balance of payments deficit from Gordon brown and that deficit is what they were trying to eliminate; not the debt brought forward.
It was a misconception shared by the PM and chancellor in 2013 then because they promised a surplus by 2020. In the same year Cameron was criticised for claiming that the UK was reducing its debt.

And what’s this ‘so called’ austerity. It was actually austerity, even the government called their cuts that.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:29 am

Election 2015: Conservative manifesto a ... urn false;

Oh, and here’s the BBC’s look at the 2015 Tory manifesto where it talks about getting to a budget surplus so we can ‘start to pay down our debts’.

Page 7 of their manifesto if you want confirmation of how wrong you are.

http://ucrel.lancs.ac.uk/wmatrix/ukmani ... atives.pdf

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:11 am

martin_p wrote:It was a misconception shared by the PM and chancellor in 2013 then because they promised a surplus by 2020. In the same year Cameron was criticised for claiming that the UK was reducing its debt.

And what’s this ‘so called’ austerity. It was actually austerity, even the government called their cuts that.
That's what I said. The plan was that until 2020 the National Debt would still be increasing, while the budget deficit was being reduced. Then in 2020 the budget would finally balance and from that year or 2021, they could start repaying the debt.

If you criticise Cameron's government for not reducing the debt, you're criticising them for something they never said they could do.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:49 am

AndyClaret wrote:A smear from the Guardian :lol:
The Guardian reports whatever it likes, unlike the propaganda machines like the telegraph, Mail, and Sun, which have different owners, but report the news in exactly the same way - supporting their man.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:19 am

dsr wrote:That's what I said. The plan was that until 2020 the National Debt would still be increasing, while the budget deficit was being reduced. Then in 2020 the budget would finally balance and from that year or 2021, they could start repaying the debt.

If you criticise Cameron's government for not reducing the debt, you're criticising them for something they never said they could do.
2020 was their plan c or d, after earlier plans failed. I’m sure I remember 2018 as a deficit gone by date as well. Austerity is a failed ideology in the way Cameron and Osborne deployed it (as we can see from their example). Countries can’t cut their way to prosperity. Labour has the economy in growth when they took over, and their cuts sent us into recession again. What they could have done differently is grow the economy. Get people back into work, redistribute wealth around to free up investment, and set the country on a path away from Neo liberalism - which caused the financial crash in the first place. All they did was cut though, and even though we were all supposed to be in it together, they couldn’t resist handing out tax breaks to their supporters too. Tax breaks that have cost this country hundreds of billions by now. And sold off everything they could. This is why a Labour government is needed before they do more damage to the country and people’s lives.

If I made errors on the debt number earlier, I apologise. I could say instead “borrowed more money than every Labour government put together”. It’s a lot, and also difficult to see how you can blame Labour’s spending for the problem when Osborne had promised to keep to their levels. Where I would challenge Labour is on not taxing the rich enough, but the next Labour government will change that.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:24 am

Jezza lets his cuddly, magic Grandpa mask slip on the right wing Channel 4 news.

https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/ ... 0853308417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:39 am

He's a old man set in his ways, who believes only he knows the answers, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Thank god we don't know anyone like that on here.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Swizzlestick » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:43 am

It’s also a four year old interview shared by Toby Young.

It was this kind of ‘smear Corbyn constantly but provide absolutely no coherent positive plan yourself’ that resulted in the Tories losing their majority last time out.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:53 am

Tories found to have woefully missed environmental targets...again. Greens and Labour plan to get us up to zero net emissions the fastest with both offering significant economic boosts. LibDems not far behind with an investment fund (just need a plan), and the Tories? Johnson not even attending the climate debate. And they say they’ll plant 30 million trees by 2030 (like the 200k houses they haven’t built any of).

Johnson will say anything to get elected, and then do nothing once he’s got the job.a

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tal-record" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:55 am

Swizzlestick wrote:It’s also a four year old interview shared by Toby Young.

It was this kind of ‘smear Corbyn constantly but provide absolutely no coherent positive plan yourself’ that resulted in the Tories losing their majority last time out.
He’s doing a Dave TV election.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:07 am

dsr wrote:That's what I said. The plan was that until 2020 the National Debt would still be increasing, while the budget deficit was being reduced. Then in 2020 the budget would finally balance and from that year or 2021, they could start repaying the debt.

If you criticise Cameron's government for not reducing the debt, you're criticising them for something they never said they could do.
You clearly haven’t read the link I posted then. It explicitly states that the U.K. would start repaying it’s debts in 2018.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Johnson offering business rate cuts today. Just like they had in their 2015 and 2017 manifestos and didn’t implement. Third time lucky?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:41 am

Full Lie Mode now unlocked and operated by Johnson. Three fictions in ten seconds! https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Darthlaw » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:15 am

Politician lies, in other news water is discovered to be wet.

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