General Election Is On

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KateR
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:33 pm

IanMcL wrote:That was the world economic disaster caused by usa.
Labour managed better than any rmtories, ever, until that external calamity, made worse by uk bank incompetence.

Are you better or worse off these last 10 years?
Are your public services better or worse?

Ian, you can not look at the last 10 years in isolation, you have to look at what was the route cause of the problem and understand the why, then look at the mitigations to the cause.

The route cause was people buying houses they could not afford, but they were allowed to by numerous institutions, well known banks and mortgage companies, people were greedy and grabbed for something they could not afford after a short time, it was in reality nothing more than a pyramid scheme on a world scale, perpetuated by well known names in the financial industry. The USA alone did not cause this, they were not driving the BoS and other UK financial institutes, the UK was somewhat late getting on the pyramid scheme and suffered more but a lot of well known financial institutes went to the wall, housing markets collapsed, stock markets nose dived etc. etc. but let's not blame the USA for all the ills of the world and the UK in particular. People caused it because they thought they would get something from it, just like you think the Billions being dangled by the Labour Party will provide you with more, and it may well in the long term, but you will pay for it one way or another.

It was not caused by Tories, nor by the Labour Gov. of the day yet it happened on there watch, no one else's, the last 10 years has been the whole country and much of the world paying for that scam, in the UK called austerity, something introduced that was very much needed, it's been painful for many. However when just starting to come out of this and getting to the point of losing the purse strings you and many others can see a whole chunk of money and you want it for no real thought of the consequences for the future and the next generation.

Almost certain to put us back in to another round of austerity to pay for all this when the Labour government are replaced if they ever get in to power, something I doubt but I worry about people like you and JC as he sells his pyramid scheme to you and millions.
Last edited by KateR on Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:37 pm

KateR wrote:LOL, yes as I thought deluded.

Try going back to the last 3 Labour Governments and tell me how much better off the working man was when they were in power, what did they achieve other than a huge national debt, fiscal responsibility is not there strongpoint.
There was massive investment and improvement in things like schools, the NHS and SureStart centre's. Which the Tories have managed to virtually destroy after 9 years in power.
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KateR
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:44 pm

jrgbfc wrote:There was massive investment and improvement in things like schools, the NHS and SureStart centre's. Which the Tories have managed to virtually destroy after 9 years in power.

you and many like you can continue to pinpoint these types of things, but history usually provides a clear sight of thing, which you are missing, something had to give in order to sort out the mess the Labour government left, regardless of who caused it, it was under the Labour watch. What is mind boggling is that you don't seem to look at the cause and just blame this government for putting the house back in order, do you for one moment believe the Tories entered power on the basis of we will screw everyone, let's call it austerity and shaft everything, I mean do you really think that?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Erasmus » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:45 pm

Kate, it wasn't the whole country paying for the banking crisis though was it? We all remember the 'We're all in this together' slogan but we weren't all in it at all. The crisis left a big hole in the public finances which could only be filled by increasing taxation or by cutting public services, or by a combination of both. The Conservative government opted not to raise taxes but to rely on cuts to public services. That's what austerity meant.

So the better off sections of society, those who pay the most in taxes, were virtually untouched whilst the poorest sections of society, those who rely most on public services, had to bear the full burden. And are still doing so because of the shocking levels of poverty and deprivation in the country.

People like me who are reasonably well off have hardly suffered at all due to austerity. There is no way that we were all in it together, and Johnson and his fellow travellers show every sign of carrying on in the same way without doing anything significant to reverse the degradation of public services.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:47 pm

Andrew Neil obliteration of Nicola Sturgeon on BBC1 Andrew Neil Show tonight is well worth watching on Iplayer.

He demonstrates why the EU would not let Scotland in if we leave, and her previous promises mean Scotland could not gain independence if we remain. He then went on to spend 43 seconds wrecking her NHS legacy, a long list of failures.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Volvoclaret » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:48 pm

Real question re Inheritance Tax. If you house worth say £300K and take out equity release of £176K, do you avoid the tax?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Greenmile » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:50 pm

KateR wrote:you and many like you can continue to pinpoint these types of things, but history usually provides a clear sight of thing, which you are missing, something had to give in order to sort out the mess the Labour government left, regardless of who caused it, it was under the Labour watch. What is mind boggling is that you don't seem to look at the cause and just blame this government for putting the house back in order...
You seem a little confused. Is it the cause that matters (the global financial crisis), or whose watch it happened under? Austerity happened under the Tories’ watch, and now we need someone to sort out the mess that’s made. Regardless of who caused it, it happened under their watch.
KateR wrote:...do you for one moment believe the Tories entered power on the basis of we will screw everyone, let's call it austerity and shaft everything, I mean do you really think that?
They didnt screw everyone - just the poor. Their rich mates never had to suffer at all.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:54 pm

Tory cheating...

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/11 ... 9128805377" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KateR
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:56 pm

Erasmus wrote:Kate, it wasn't the whole country paying for the banking crisis though was it? We all remember the 'We're all in this together' slogan but we weren't all in it at all. The crisis left a big hole in the public finances which could only be filled by increasing taxation or by cutting public services, or by a combination of both. The Conservative government opted not to raise taxes but to rely on cuts to public services. That's what austerity meant.

So the better off sections of society, those who pay the most in taxes, were virtually untouched whilst the poorest sections of society, those who rely most on public services, had to bear the full burden. And are still doing so because of the shocking levels of poverty and deprivation in the country.

People like me who are reasonably well off have hardly suffered at all due to austerity. There is no way that we were all in it together, and Johnson and his fellow travellers show every sign of carrying on in the same way without doing anything significant to reverse the degradation of public services.
Erasmus, it is impossible to try and work out all the causes and the mitigations, there would have been a great outcry in regard to raising taxes, if you raised them enough to have paid for this all through that segment then the wealthy would cut back on staff, look for ways to offset the actual increase in tax, including leaving the country all together, job losses, etc.

I am not trying to defend the Tories, I am not defending austerity or how it was implemented and managed. What I am trying to convey is that these pledges in the Labour manifesto will in the end cause the country and the working man harm, they are glittery baubles held out to lure people to grab it. That is where I fail to see people blaming the Tories for why we got in to austerity and where they are coming from.

All parties and all governments have good ideas, some get derailed, the Labour party is not all bad and I can see those who will vote LibDem point of view this time around, yet I can not see JC being good for the country nor this manifesto.

KateR
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Greenmile wrote:You seem a little confused. Is it the cause that matters (the global financial crisis), or whose watch it happened under? Austerity happened under the Tories’ watch, and now we need someone to sort out the mess that’s made. Regardless of who caused it, it happened under their watch.



They didnt screw everyone - just the poor. Their rich mates never had to suffer at all.

It's difficult to have a conversation with bigots but trying to with blind bigots is a waste of time but just for the sake of it, yes it matters, it matters a lot who caused it and who's watch it was under, because people like you would put them right back there to screw you again. You never told me last time regarding where that imaginary line is in regard to the poor vote Labour and the rich vote Tory maybe because you suspect like me that all Labour MP's would be above that line.

And you have the audacity to call me confused

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:09 pm

KateR wrote:Ian, you can not look at the last 10 years in isolation, you have to look at what was the route cause of the problem and understand the why, then look at the mitigations to the cause.

The route cause was people buying houses they could not afford, but they were allowed to by numerous institutions, well known banks and mortgage companies, people were greedy and grabbed for something they could not afford after a short time, it was in reality nothing more than a pyramid scheme on a world scale, perpetuated by well known names in the financial industry. The USA alone did not cause this, they were not driving the BoS and other UK financial institutes, the UK was somewhat late getting on the pyramid scheme and suffered more but a lot of well known financial institutes went to the wall, housing markets collapsed, stock markets nose dived etc. etc. but let's not blame the USA for all the ills of the world and the UK in particular. People caused it because they thought they would get something from it, just like you think the Billions being dangled by the Labour Party will provide you with more, and it may well in the long term, but you will pay for it one way or another.

It was not caused by Tories, nor by the Labour Gov. of the day yet it happened on there watch, no one else's, the last 10 years has been the whole country and much of the world paying for that scam, in the UK called austerity, something introduced that was very much needed, it's been painful for many. However when just starting to come out of this and getting to the point of losing the purse strings you and many others can see a whole chunk of money and you want it for no real thought of the consequences for the future and the next generation.

Almost certain to put us back in to another round of austerity to pay for all this when the Labour government are replaced if they ever get in to power, something I doubt but I worry about people like you and JC as he sells his pyramid scheme to you and millions.
Why did the most vulnerable in our society have to shoulder the biggest burden in paying for the mistakes of our financial elites?

Austerity was a choice by the Tories, to shrink the state, to reduce working rights, to shrink pay, and reduce taxes for the rich. All for the people who fund them. They succeeded in doing this. Look at the funding they’ve received in the last week, some from Russian oligarchs. The Tories are little more than a mafia gang doing the bidding of their paymasters - one of whom could be Putin.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:12 pm

What working rights have the Tories reduced?
I'm aware of some changes, but what else have I missed.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:13 pm

Labour are going at this election like a bull in a China shop. Two examples, 32 hour week and scrapping university tuition fees.

No reason to mention a totally undeliverable 32 hour week at this stage of an election so why do it?

University students should pay something toward their education so why not offer to halve their fees to £4,500 a year. A three year degree would only result in £13,500 of debt which is much more manageable.

Free broadband? Why? Nationalise several industries/services at once. Why not start with just one?

If Labour do get well beaten due to scaring voters off then the Labour party's 'faceless' political advisors will have a lot to answer for.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:20 pm

aggi wrote:I can see how that carve out would work for Luxembourg but not a larger territory.

A serious question, how does TFL and the London underground being a publicly owned company get round this? They are actively expanding, taking over more train lines to add to the tube lines, but I've never seen anything about them potentially breaching EU rules.
Scanning the internet, it looks like all the metro systems (Madrid, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Seville, Prague...) have completely escaped the Commission's attention - unlike 'overground' railways, none of which have escaped scrutiny. The Commission are even moaning about Estonia, with only 900km of operational railways operating on a different gauge!

Other than London (400km), the others seem to be in the sub-250km region, and a lot are sub-100km. Perhaps they are all considered too small for '4th Railway Package' treatment.

The purchase of trains and major works are still subject to Public Procurement Rules and State Aid Rules, though.

Looking here (2014) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/EPRS/EPRS ... -FINAL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and here https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 2013PC0028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (note - scanned only) there seems to be a proposal to exempt any system with less than 300,000 service-miles (not 'passenger miles'), i.e. how far all the trains travel in total. London Underground, with 1.3 billion 'passenger-miles' must be way above that limit, though.

All in all, my best guess is the Commission have been too busy tackling the overground networks in France, Denmark, Ireland, Spain, Norway etc to have got round to taking on the larger Metro systems yet. London Underground, you'd imagine, would be their first port of call when they do.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Why did the most vulnerable in our society have to shoulder the biggest burden in paying for the mistakes of our financial elites?

Austerity was a choice by the Tories, to shrink the state, to reduce working rights, to shrink pay, and reduce taxes for the rich. All for the people who fund them. They succeeded in doing this. Look at the funding they’ve received in the last week, some from Russian oligarchs. The Tories are little more than a mafia gang doing the bidding of their paymasters - one of whom could be Putin.

you and others who are wearing blinkers continue to bang on about austerity like it was an actual choice, you really need to get off your Labour spokes box and look with an open mind, no one, certainly not me is saying the Tories are great and they have done wonderful, if you are going to comment on my posts then please refer to what I was talking about. Maybe if I shout it will help you THE TORIES DID NOT CAUSE AUSTERITY.

Good night everyone :)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:What working rights have the Tories reduced?
I'm aware of some changes, but what else have I missed.
Off the top of my head extending the time you need to be in a job with protection from dismissal from 1 year to 2 years and a significant cut in who qualified for aid in unfair dismissal cases and similar.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:26 pm

KateR wrote:Erasmus, it is impossible to try and work out all the causes and the mitigations, there would have been a great outcry in regard to raising taxes, if you raised them enough to have paid for this all through that segment then the wealthy would cut back on staff, look for ways to offset the actual increase in tax, including leaving the country all together, job losses, etc.

I am not trying to defend the Tories, I am not defending austerity or how it was implemented and managed. What I am trying to convey is that these pledges in the Labour manifesto will in the end cause the country and the working man harm, they are glittery baubles held out to lure people to grab it. That is where I fail to see people blaming the Tories for why we got in to austerity and where they are coming from.

All parties and all governments have good ideas, some get derailed, the Labour party is not all bad and I can see those who will vote LibDem point of view this time around, yet I can not see JC being good for the country nor this manifesto.
The NHS was described as an expensive luxury that the country couldn’t afford, before it was founded. Now, seeing it contrasted against the US system which is twice as expensive per capita and doesn’t cover millions of people, add say we can’t afford not to have it.

It’ll be the same for everything else Labour nationalise. We pay the highest prices in Europe for train travel with poor service. Our utilities? Really expensive too, as with our internet service (again the lowest quality in Europe at 5% coverage for fibre), and what do they all have in common? Privately owned natural monopolies.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:32 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:What working rights have the Tories reduced?
I'm aware of some changes, but what else have I missed.

https://www.ier.org.uk/news/7-employmen ... er-tory-pm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suppose you could add the fact that some of the people who have had to take zero hours contracts but would have preferred a not to the list.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:39 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:What working rights have the Tories reduced?
I'm aware of some changes, but what else have I missed.
Apart from what Aggi mentioned, they changed the law for unions, forced people to pay a hefty fee for industrial tribunals (since overturned in courts), and made losing workers potentially liable for employer costs, and froze public sector pay (which has a ripple effect on pay elsewhere). Probably more, but is that enough?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:41 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
EA978E32-31AE-4CB6-AEDA-0266048FB1BB.png
That’s gunna hit lots of people hard.

Now as I understand it you have to pay the tax before you can inherit the rest. You might just lose it all.
Banks will not let money against an inheritance.

Now if that’s wrong I am sure someone on here will know.
How can anyone make a post this unbelievably wrong? I don't even particularly care if Labour win or not myself, but why post something this wrong when it's so easy to check? And taking the view that posting something this ridiculously wrong is okay because someone else has an opportunity to correct it is not the right approach.

I've tried several times to take you seriously. I give up.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:42 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Apart from what Aggi mentioned, they changed the law for unions, forced people to pay a hefty fee for industrial tribunals (since overturned in courts), and made losing workers potentially liable for employer costs, and froze public sector pay (which has a ripple effect on pay elsewhere). Probably more, but is that enough?
So you're against people paying the costs to force a company into a tribunal?
If they were to win would they get the costs back?

Losers in normal court cases face the risk of having to pay the fees for the opposing side don't they?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:43 pm

RMutt wrote:https://www.ier.org.uk/news/7-employmen ... er-tory-pm

I suppose you could add the fact that some of the people who have had to take zero hours contracts but would have preferred a not to the list.
Zero hours contracts have been around for nearly 20 years, they aren't a new phenomenon and neither Labour or Tory have been that bothered about stopping them.
Why is it just the Tories who get battered over them?

Zero hours also suits some people, just not everyone.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by KateR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:44 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The NHS was described as an expensive luxury that the country couldn’t afford, before it was founded. Now, seeing it contrasted against the US system which is twice as expensive per capita and doesn’t cover millions of people, add say we can’t afford not to have it.

It’ll be the same for everything else Labour nationalise. We pay the highest prices in Europe for train travel with poor service. Our utilities? Really expensive too, as with our internet service (again the lowest quality in Europe at 5% coverage for fibre), and what do they all have in common? Privately owned natural monopolies.

Jeeeze, this is difficult, only Labour are saying that the Tories will sell the NHS, but you will believe what you want and I don't care, every party recognizes the NHS needs help, including the Tories but you chose to ignore what they say because BJ is a liar, fine, end of that discussion!

I have actually travelled on numerous European trains, they are better, they are cheaper, can the UK improve absolutely, should they improve, absolutely. Internet services, poor in the grand scheme, should they be improved, absolutely, we are of an accord so far.

Why did the last Labour Gov. not nationalize those services when in power, were they so much better, I don't think so but am not going to argue the point.

For the last time, I do not think Tories are great, is there room for improvement, you bet there is, has there been funds to improve much since the last Labour Gov. no I don't really think there was, was there any money left by Labour, no, were the banks handing out low interest loans, no I don't think so.

Someone else pointed out that Labour want to change everything at once, they want to nationalize everything at once, they have no money so they will borrow to do it, that is a huge debt that someone has to pay, guess who, and clue for you, it wont be the top 5% of the rich people in the UK.

History Lesson 101, Yes/No answers

Will the Tory Government leave the UK in a better fiscal state than they received it when entering power should the Labour Party win this election?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:47 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Zero hours contracts have been around for nearly 20 years, they aren't a new phenomenon and neither Labour or Tory have been that bothered about stopping them.
Why is it just the Tories who get battered over them?

Zero hours also suits some people, just not everyone.
I suppose because they have proliferated under their watch and have been used by them to disguise the true nature of employment/ unemployment.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:50 pm

KateR wrote:Jeeeze, this is difficult, only Labour are saying that the Tories will sell the NHS,
There was the undercover Dispatches story about British & USA representatives discussing drug pricing.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:56 pm

Spijed wrote:There was the undercover Dispatches story about British & USA representatives discussing drug pricing.
Do you believe drugs expenditure will increase by £27 billion a year?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:03 pm

I have said it a few times, if Labour had shown some fiscal responsibility like Brown did in the first Labour government they would have allayed my fears and I would have given them a chance. If they had kept their spending promised to capital expenditure it would be more than acceptable but purely for political reasons they are spending money we cannot afford, they are proposing scrapping student loans, paying the WASPI women and a minimum wage of £10.50 for everyone whilst raising corporation tax and dividends for their employers.

In 2010 we had deficit of 10.6% yes the financial crash contributed to it but you only have to look a the rise in Govt expenditure from 2003 onwards to show that overspending contributed to the rise and when tax receipts dried up the economy went south.

If they get in I hope for Britain’s sake it works but my fear is punishment by the bond markets with rising GILT yields and a bailout with those at the bottom suffering most.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:16 pm

KateR wrote:you and others who are wearing blinkers continue to bang on about austerity like it was an actual choice, you really need to get off your Labour spokes box and look with an open mind, no one, certainly not me is saying the Tories are great and they have done wonderful, if you are going to comment on my posts then please refer to what I was talking about. Maybe if I shout it will help you THE TORIES DID NOT CAUSE AUSTERITY.

Good night everyone :)
The economy was already in growth when Cameron and Osborne took over. There was no need to cut as harshly as they did (which pushed us straight back into recession). Of course it was their choice! Everything I described, they did. It a matter of historical record. The list of what they did is long and shameful. The bedroom tax, which applies even to families who lost a child. Disabled and terminally ill people found fit for work. Disability cuts. Massive cuts to local governments, selling off anything they could - need I go on? They haven’t reformed the banking system, and it could collapse again. And the rich have been given tax breaks.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:18 pm

RMutt wrote:I suppose because they have proliferated under their watch and have been used by them to disguise the true nature of employment/ unemployment.
https://fullfact.org/economy/employment ... 2010-zhcs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They aren't really though.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So you're against people paying the costs to force a company into a tribunal?
If they were to win would they get the costs back?

Losers in normal court cases face the risk of having to pay the fees for the opposing side don't they?
Not just me against it. The fees were found to be illegal by the courts. There’s a big difference in power between a company and an ex employee.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:30 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The economy was already in growth when Cameron and Osborne took over. There was no need to cut as harshly as they did (which pushed us straight back into recession). Of course it was their choice! Everything I described, they did. It a matter of historical record. The list of what they did is long and shameful. The bedroom tax, which applies even to families who lost a child. Disabled and terminally ill people found fit for work. Disability cuts. Massive cuts to local governments, selling off anything they could - need I go on? They haven’t reformed the banking system, and it could collapse again. And the rich have been given tax breaks.
Andrew In 2010 when the coalition government came in we had 10.6% budget deficit, cuts had to be made yes I will agree that they went too deep in trying to bring the budget into surplus by 2015 which they failed but to not say any cuts had to be made is the reason why the Tories have a massive lead when it come to the economy. They cut the £250/£500 Child Tax credit voucher is that one that they should have kept?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:37 pm

KateR wrote:Jeeeze, this is difficult, only Labour are saying that the Tories will sell the NHS, but you will believe what you want and I don't care, every party recognizes the NHS needs help, including the Tories but you chose to ignore what they say because BJ is a liar, fine, end of that discussion!

I have actually travelled on numerous European trains, they are better, they are cheaper, can the UK improve absolutely, should they improve, absolutely. Internet services, poor in the grand scheme, should they be improved, absolutely, we are of an accord so far.

Why did the last Labour Gov. not nationalize those services when in power, were they so much better, I don't think so but am not going to argue the point.

For the last time, I do not think Tories are great, is there room for improvement, you bet there is, has there been funds to improve much since the last Labour Gov. no I don't really think there was, was there any money left by Labour, no, were the banks handing out low interest loans, no I don't think so.

Someone else pointed out that Labour want to change everything at once, they want to nationalize everything at once, they have no money so they will borrow to do it, that is a huge debt that someone has to pay, guess who, and clue for you, it wont be the top 5% of the rich people in the UK.

History Lesson 101, Yes/No answers

Will the Tory Government leave the UK in a better fiscal state than they received it when entering power should the Labour Party win this election?
The last Labour government didn’t renationalise probably because it wasn’t very Labour.

I don’t share your concern over the cost of nationalisation, because there are many ways to pay back money when you’re the government. They could choose to pay over a long period and at a rate of interest that suits them. This might sound unfair, but then so are the prices many of us have had to pay for water, electricity, gas, trains, and internet. Those companies have all made huge profits off us over the decades, and I doubt they’ve paid much in tax. Thames Water recently surcharges all their customers in order to buy London property to build the new super sewer with a lot of taxpayer investment. Where in the private sector do companies raise their prices so they can buy up more assets?! It’s time to take back control of these companies for the good of the country.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by IanMcL » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:38 pm

'THE TORIES DID NOT CAUSE AUSTERITY' KateR

Yes they did! That was their solution to the crisis. It meant the masses paid and became even more subservient public services crushed....the ones the masses depend on.

Obama expanded the US economy and won the day.

Especially for Kate. WW2 was under the tory watch. Should they be banished?
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:41 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
EA978E32-31AE-4CB6-AEDA-0266048FB1BB.png
That’s gunna hit lots of people hard.

Now as I understand it you have to pay the tax before you can inherit the rest. You might just lose it all.
Banks will not let money against an inheritance.

Now if that’s wrong I am sure someone on here will know.
Unsurprisingly you're entirely wrong there. IHT on property can be paid in installments over many years.

Just because someone posts something on the internet you don't have to believe it and propagate it. I bet your friends are sick of hearing about all these Nigerian princes that are due to be giving you loads of money.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:42 pm

Dy1geo wrote:Andrew In 2010 when the coalition government came in we had 10.6% budget deficit, cuts had to be made yes I will agree that they went too deep in trying to bring the budget into surplus by 2015 which they failed but to not say any cuts had to be made is the reason why the Tories have a massive lead when it come to the economy. They cut the £250/£500 Child Tax credit voucher is that one that they should have kept?
The cuts fell on the poorest and those least able to afford them. And they cut taxes for the rich. And they borrowed more than every Labour government in history - so of course it was a choice. If they’d been serious about the deficit, they wouldn’t have cut tax for the rich.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by IanMcL » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:42 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Labour absolutely failed to protect the UK from another recession, in fact they probably made it worse with their view that they'd stopped the Boom and Bust nature of the UK economy.

Yeah let's put them in charge again shall we because what's the worse the could happen...
Been listening to too many tories.

More good was done for masses in Blair years with infrastructure improvements, low pay improvements (minimum wage was very much opposed by tories, who said it would cost thousands of jobs)

Tories introduced bedroom tax, higher rents and zero hour contracts. That is the modern equivalent of queuing at the works gate, waiting to be picked or not.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by IanMcL » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:43 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Always someone else’s fault, eh? Under who’s watch were the financial services in the UK running amok, Ian?

You’ve even described your thoughts on debt a few posts above with the ‘can we afford the interest’. Keen to take the country into a wonga loan just to get your unicorn manifesto promises to land.

I have to say, as a caricature of Labour’s approach to fiscal responsibility - you’re nailing it.
Straightforward Government economics.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 am

AndrewJB wrote:The last Labour government didn’t renationalise probably because it wasn’t very Labour.

I don’t share your concern over the cost of nationalisation, because there are many ways to pay back money when you’re the government. They could choose to pay over a long period and at a rate of interest that suits them.
I think you've gone a step further than even McDonnell there. His proposal is that the government issues bonds to borrow the money, which of course have fixed terms of repayment and guaranteed interest rates. What you're suggesting, that the government should borrow money without telling the lender how much they will repay or when, is fraught with problems - the biggest one being to persuade the lender to stump up the brass.

Or are you suggesting the government should borrow the money and then default on the repayments? That would make it seriously difficult to borrow any more. And if the country has reached that state, you would find that the newly nationalised industries are worth an awful lot less than you paid for them.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:01 am

dsr wrote:I think you've gone a step further than even McDonnell there. His proposal is that the government issues bonds to borrow the money, which of course have fixed terms of repayment and guaranteed interest rates. What you're suggesting, that the government should borrow money without telling the lender how much they will repay or when, is fraught with problems - the biggest one being to persuade the lender to stump up the brass.

Or are you suggesting the government should borrow the money and then default on the repayments? That would make it seriously difficult to borrow any more. And if the country has reached that state, you would find that the newly nationalised industries are worth an awful lot less than you paid for them.
I was referring to a government paying for a nationalisation, not repaying a loan.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:45 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Yep, cross I will have to bear.

I have faith I will be looking her in the face when she loses.

My place going to the count not yet confirmed.
In Burnley, the Tories have the best chance of beating Labour, you should be targeting people who usually vote Labour, (but won't vote Tory) to vote for the Brexit party, anybody else i would be telling to vote Tory.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndyClaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:50 am

Chief Rabbi urges people to vote with their conscience, and says Corbyn isn't fit for office

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status ... 0258913280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1199079387439812608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:29 am

AndyClaret wrote:Chief Rabbi urges people to vote with their conscience, and says Corbyn isn't fit for office

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status ... 0258913280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1199079387439812608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I see the mainstream media And their powerful owners have played their trump card... I really do wish society could move forward without relying on stories of Sky Fairies and how you should believe in them or you go to Hell
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Greenmile » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:54 am

KateR wrote:you and others who are wearing blinkers continue to bang on about austerity like it was an actual choice, you really need to get off your Labour spokes box and look with an open mind, no one, certainly not me is saying the Tories are great and they have done wonderful, if you are going to comment on my posts then please refer to what I was talking about. Maybe if I shout it will help you THE TORIES DID NOT CAUSE AUSTERITY.

Good night everyone :)
AND LABOUR DID NOT CAUSE THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS.

It happened under their watch though, which seems to matter to you for some reason. Just like austerity happened under the Tories’ watch. You can’t have it both ways.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:39 am

Erasmus wrote:Kate, it wasn't the whole country paying for the banking crisis though was it? We all remember the 'We're all in this together' slogan but we weren't all in it at all. The crisis left a big hole in the public finances which could only be filled by increasing taxation or by cutting public services, or by a combination of both. The Conservative government opted not to raise taxes but to rely on cuts to public services. That's what austerity meant.

So the better off sections of society, those who pay the most in taxes, were virtually untouched whilst the poorest sections of society, those who rely most on public services, had to bear the full burden. And are still doing so because of the shocking levels of poverty and deprivation in the country.

People like me who are reasonably well off have hardly suffered at all due to austerity. There is no way that we were all in it together, and Johnson and his fellow travellers show every sign of carrying on in the same way without doing anything significant to reverse the degradation of public services.
standing ovation here for that

Just pointing out reality to people who refuse to accept it has to be done.

The last paragraph is the killer for me. Any lingering hope I had that the Conservatives would change tack on this disappeared on Sunday with a manifesto launch that screamed "more of the same"

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:42 am

Rick_Muller wrote:I see the mainstream media And their powerful owners have played their trump card... I really do wish society could move forward without relying on stories of Sky Fairies and how you should believe in them or you go to Hell
Hang on a sec Rick

No doubt this has been inflated by the right wing press, but at the same time the problem are real and there is no longer any doubt that its ingrained in a chunk of Labour support.

But it one way, pretending its a right wing Tory conspiracy (hello Labour activists on twitter!) in the face of all the evidence isn't helping at all.

Labour itself have done a lot recently to counter act this, but its too little and I fear its too late.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:48 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hang on a sec Rick

No doubt this has been inflated by the right wing press, but at the same time the problem are real and there is no longer any doubt that its ingrained in a chunk of Labour support.

But it one way, pretending its a right wing Tory conspiracy (hello Labour activists on twitter!) in the face of all the evidence isn't helping at all.

Labour itself have done a lot recently to counter act this, but its too little and I fear its too late.
Do the majority of voters outside of the Jewish community, say in places like Burnley, take note of these stories?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:54 am

Spijed wrote:Do the majority of voters outside of the Jewish community, say in places like Burnley, take note of these stories?
I've no idea to be honest.

I'm not really looking, as I ago decided that having a Tory government would be worse than a Labour one (but there is not a lot in it, which is itself profoundly depressing) so my vote is about as secure as it can be for Labour.

But I'm as close as I ever have been to going "**** it, no point, both main parties don't deserve my vote"

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:59 am

Just going back to the bloke who thought he wasn’t in the top 5%

I think part of his belief cane from the fact he believed every Doctor and Solicitor in the country earn more than 80k a year.

Average wage for solicitor is £54k a year

A Junior doctor starting salary is 24k a year. Only consultants, and senior registrars who are hammering the private work will earn over 80k a year.

The vast majority of doctors don’t earn anywhere near 80k a year

As a Charge Nurse I earn well below 80k a year but I’d be willing to pay more tax if it meant no one had to live on the street, no child needs food banks, and we have properly funded public services.

It’s about doing what is morally and socially right.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Heathclaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:01 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I've no idea to be honest.

I'm not really looking, as I ago decided that having a Tory government would be worse than a Labour one (but there is not a lot in it, which is itself profoundly depressing) so my vote is about as secure as it can be for Labour.

But I'm as close as I ever have been to going "**** it, no point, both main parties don't deserve my vote"
You are too smart to do that Lancaster, where as I agree that the Labour Party is not what we would like it to be, voting for Johnson and his cronies and whet they stand for is unthinkable. I’m no fan of Corbyn and his bunch, but the other lot are worse. Plus Johnson is probably the most dishonest politician I’ve ever listened to, and that’s saying something.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:06 am

Heathclaret wrote:You are too smart to do that Lancaster, where as I agree that the Labour Party is not what we would like it to be, voting for Johnson and his cronies and whet they stand for is unthinkable. I’m no fan of Corbyn and his bunch, but the other lot are worse. Plus Johnson is probably the most dishonest politician I’ve ever listened to, and that’s saying something.
I'm not disagreeing

Social/NHS/health - Labour win hands down, but being the ruling party in a country is more than just that.

I'd like another hung parliament to be honest, but that is only on the off chance that people realise that we need proper electoral change, and that is very unlikely to happen.

The most depressing thing is that the Tories have been very poor in this election again, but they don't have to be better than that to win.

Labour and the others just can't make the break through to force the Tories to change, and if they win with their current, terrible electoral tactics, then it becomes very hard to get them to change them, and to me, all those tactics do is just do more damage to trust in politicians.

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