General Election Is On

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martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:26 pm

Mala591 wrote:Hang on a minute! Are the Labour party LYING when they say that NO ONE who earns less than £80,000 per year will pay any more income tax?
No they aren't.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:31 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:if the cap fits...

Look, please stop using bold and large fonts to try and enforce your warped view on things and I'll apologise. The debate on this thread has been good and I really object to you coming on and tainting the debate in the way that you do, and always appear to do.
You complain about large and bold fonts!

Yet, its apparently fine for you to use foul language and personal abuse!

:lol:


As for my posts and their content. Or for anyone else's for that matter. When it comes to who's posts are acceptable and who's aren't.






Who exactly made you God?

martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You complain about large and bold fonts!

Yet, its apparently fine for you to use foul language and personal abuse!

:lol:


As for my posts and their content. Or for anyone else's for that matter. When it comes to who's posts are acceptable and who's aren't.






Who exactly made you God?
It was me. Next question.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:37 pm

aggi wrote:Bear in mind that Ringo has the EU down as the main factor in the decline in manufacturing jobs in the UK in the past 40 years. Not automation, the rise in cheap products from the far east, etc. It is just coincidence that countries such as the US have suffered the same decline. When he jumps on a bandwagon he's a true zealot.

I asked you 5 simple questions.

1 Should the deal go through, who will own the scunthorpe steel plant?

The tory government, or the Chinese company Jingye?

You previously answered
aggi wrote: Jingye
Now you're claiming !!!

aggi wrote: The EU says, "No can do , UK" you actually meant that the Tories could save thousands of steel workers jobs, by continuing to fund the operating expenses, salaries, etc until it was taken over, and the EU would allow this? I can see where the confusion arose.
MAKE YOUR MIND UP!!! :lol: :lol:



2 Will the deal have breached eu laws? The same laws that the government's own legal team and Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, said prevented the tory government from doing the same.


You conceded that the tory government were prevented from bailing out the steel works as labour had done with the banks cos of EU laws, but Jingyes buy out did not!
aggi wrote: No


You confirmed!!

3, Are you giving credit to the tories for saving thousands of jobs in the north?
aggi wrote: yes
You said!! Despite previously confirming that it was actually Jingye that now owns the steel works, therefore saving 1000s of jobs!!

:lol: :lol:

4, Are you more knowledgeable on the subject that Professor Ruth Bender Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy?
aggi wrote: I don't know her body of work but I'd guess no.


You admitted. Therefore you bow to her knowledge when she confirmed that any attempt by the Tory government to bail out the steelworks would breach EU law!

5, Are you contradicting, directly what the Labour Party supporting website is saying, when it confirmed the Labour government was not prevented by eu rules from bailing out the banks , but the tory government was prevented from doing the same for the steel works by eu rules?
aggi wrote: No
Once again confirming what I'd originally said-

"2008- Labour bail out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions.

The EU says , " that's fine."

2019- The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"


I'm now quoting directly from the actual letter sent to the government from its legal advisors.

"We cannot demonstrate the necessary commerciality required by State Aid Law to provide such support"

In other words , perhaps "simplistic", The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"There is no evidence that any earlier funding options involving government would have been lawful either"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"It would be unlawful to provide a guarantee or loan"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"We do not believe there is currently any level of investment government could make ( above the State Aid de minis of €200000 that could be deemed commercial and so legal"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

It was not possible to fund a traditional loan financing that would be deemed to be successfully commercial to meet the State Aid commerciality threshold"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonClarkeM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 1516826626

It proves my "simplistic" point to be accurate and correct and concurs with what Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, said when she was interviewed on Radio 5 Live Breakfast show on 31st March.

"Do EU rules prevent state aid to save British Steel?

Would it be against EU regulations to provide funding to British Steel in a time of need?

"Unfortunately, yes. The fact that all the economic factors go against the UK steel industry is not relevant, nor is the potentially devastating impact on the wider local economy were it to close. The EU has already ruled on this: in January 2016 the competition commissioner ruled that the Belgian government had illegally provided €211m to steel companies in one of its depressed regions, and ordered that the money be repaid. She also announced an investigation into €2bn of similar aid given by the Italian government to support its steel industry."

Taken from the labour supporting website labour heartlands!


Your side aggi!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


The Tories/ government, as I said, and you called "outright lies " were prevented from saving thousands of jobs due to eu rules.

They haven't the chinese company has

Youre clearly somebody who is desperate to cling onto the wealth that, as a dweller of the metropolitan London borough of Ivory Towers, the capital city and the south east of England has enjoyed during the 40 odd years of EU membership. You like many of your fellow entitled remoaner travellers are still bewildered by the result of the 2016 peoples vote arent you!

:lol:

There is real palpable anger in your posts as
the walls of the metropolitan London bubble in which you dwell , seem to be shrinking and closing in on you as your recent posts see your meeting yourself coming back as you trip yourself up and contradict yourself again and again and again!

You refuse to accept ZERO criticism of your precious EU. Your devotion has no bounds to Le Grande Project has it aggi? Its been good for remoaners like your metropolitan bubble dwelling good self hasn't it aggi!

You've done well out of the European union. However.

Whether it's the lack of democracy in the EU.

Whether it's the revealing, sinister plaque in the multi million euro EU visitors centre, that , darkly , proclaims-

“National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”

Whether it's the grinding poverty brought to millions thanks to the EU imposed austerity.

Remember when the Joseph Rowntree Foundstion produced its annual poverty index !!?


I pointed out that, on a constituency basis, it was noticable that a very large number of the poorest constituencies also voted Leave.

You were having none of it were you aggi!!


:lol: :lol:

All rational and coherent thinking is thrown out of the window isn't aggi , as a cursory glance at any EU related subject on here will prove.

Criticism will not be tolerated! Irrespective of how silly or mutton headed you sound will it aggi! :lol: :lol:

But then you're a disciple. An unquestioning disciple of the church. The EU Church that believes in "The Final Remedy"

These recent posts , that were a failed attempt to "put this one to bed" are , sadly , just further evidence of your evangelical europhile zealot and unbridled EU nationalist
fundamentalism coming out from under the covers and once again getting the better of you.

:lol:
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CrosspoolClarets
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:41 pm

Spijed wrote:Crosspool, what is your view on Boris refusing to take part in the Andrew Neil interview?

It's worrying that the BBC no longer looks impartial.
Cowardice.

He is probably being advised to dodge it (politicians follow “orders” during campaigns even though technically they are the boss). A big mistake.

Let us hope he sees sense.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:42 pm

martin_p wrote:It was me. Next question.
Ah Marty!

The message board poster who's views, opinions and input are rather like a 3rd choice goalkeeper on matchday.

Bright enough to know the rules.










Stupid enough not to realise how unimportant they are!

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:43 pm

Mala591 wrote:Hang on a minute! Are the Labour party LYING when they say that NO ONE who earns less than £80,000 per year will pay any more income tax?
A big fat lie.

Dividend tax is effectively income tax if set at the same rate as income tax.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Erasmus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:44 pm

To Paul Waine. Paul, what you are referring to in relation to the Netherlands is in fact a ring-fenced tax that is to be used solely for healthcare provision. To enable the Dutch government to provide a better standard of healthcare than we have via the NHS it requires that ring-fenced tax to be a good bit higher than what is paid in the UK. To implement that system here would mean better off people paying more in order to achieve a higher standard of healthcare for all, rich and poor. That is essentially the Labour Party's policy, just a different means of collecting the taxation.

Android, I certainly do give the Conservative Party credit for raising the payment threshold for taxation and for the other measures you mention. However, the benefits of that raise go to all of us, me included. I like it, but I could well do without it. So it doesn't seem to be the best way of restributing wealth to those most in need.

And set against that you have the actual lived reality of the poorest people in the country. Schools not opening five days, the health service at breaking point, the appalling standard of social care for the elderly, 1.5 million people having used food banks because of destitution, and depriving people of any money at all for six weeks when they move to Universal Credit. And other factors that could be mentioned. So yes, credit where credit is due, but what you mention doesn't do anything like balancing out the cruel hardships that so many have had to endure because of government policies.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RMutt » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:46 pm

claretandy wrote:He hasn't refused, they are still trying to sort out a date.

Can you imagine the Sun, Mail and Express headlines if Corbyn had done so much as to hesitate to do the interview. Whether Johnson does it or not he is not being called out now by the press as would be the case if this was Corbyn. I don’t know how you can have fair elections without balanced reporting.
Last edited by RMutt on Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:46 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:A big fat lie.

Dividend tax is effectively income tax if set at the same rate as income tax.
and what about the married person's tax allowance?
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martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:48 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:A big fat lie.

Dividend tax is effectively income tax if set at the same rate as income tax.
If it was income tax it would be called income tax. VAT is also currently the same rate as income tax but that’s not income tax either.

martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:50 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Ah Marty!

The message board poster who's views, opinions and input are rather like a 3rd choice goalkeeper on matchday.

Bright enough to know the rules.










Stupid enough not to realise how unimportant they are!
You need to relax a bit mate. All your angry long winded posts are going to give you a heart attack or something.

Mala591
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:55 pm

martin_p wrote:If it was income tax it would be called income tax. VAT is also currently the same rate as income tax but that’s not income tax either.
Income tax is paid on ANY income irrespective of where it comes from.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:57 pm

martin_p wrote:You need to relax a bit mate. All your angry long winded posts are going to give you a heart attack or something.

Dont flatter yourself. I'm definitely not your mate.

When I need advice from this boards Peacock Farrell, I'll give you the nod!


:lol: :lol:
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:57 pm

Mala591 wrote:Income tax is paid on ANY income irrespective of where it comes from.
It’s not paid on dividends, that’s a different tax (not surprisingly called ‘dividend tax’).

martin_p
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:58 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:When I need advice from this boards Peacock Farrell, I'll give you the nod!


:lol: :lol:
Breathe!!! Mate.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Dy1geo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:14 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s not paid on dividends, that’s a different tax (not surprisingly called ‘dividend tax’).
The problem is Labour never kept it to income tax,

To quote

“There would be no tax rises for 95% of earners, with only those on incomes of more than £80,000 being affected”

Now to me tax encompasses everything from income, VAT, Savings, Dividend and I am sure that there will be tax rises some in the 95%

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:15 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s not paid on dividends, that’s a different tax (not surprisingly called ‘dividend tax’).
If you have dividends, you pay income tax at the dividend rate. Income tax. There is no separate dividend tax.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:16 pm

Dy1geo wrote:The problem is Labour never kept it to income tax,

To quote

“There would be no tax rises for 95% of earners, with only those on incomes of more than £80,000 being affected”

Now to me tax encompasses everything from income, VAT, Savings, Dividend and I am sure that there will be tax rises some in the 95%
Don't forget fuel duty.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:26 pm

dsr wrote:If you have dividends, you pay income tax at the dividend rate. Income tax. There is no separate dividend tax.
Ok, fair point. But surely it’s therefore fair that you pay the same amount of income tax on all your income (within each band).

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Martin. Is the married person's tax allowance changing?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:39 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:The single mother cleaning company would be keeping under the NI threshold so will currently be paying herself just over £8,600 per year, then will be absorbing the £2,000 dividend allowance after the personal allowance, so at a guess she will have to pay dividend tax at 7.5% on about £10,000 which is about £750 plus her corporation tax.

Corbyn is saying she will need to pay an extra £1,250 (I think), the same for her as adding 10% to the basic rate of income tax. I haven’t seen if there are more tax efficient ways to do it if that Labour policy comes in, and I’ve rushed this email while making a brew so it may be incorrect. I have also ignored that she will also pay more in higher corporation tax unless she raises her salary.
Yes, having looked at the same it is a bit more than I thought. I forgot that you couldn't get EA as a sole director.

Personally I think there are two issues being mixed together here.

There are employees masquerading as companies in order to take advantage of the tax benefits (both "employee" and employer). This has been approached somewhat with IR35 and the recent changes to contractors at public firms but I believe considerably more needs to be done to sort out this, dodgy umbrella firms, etc.

However, I do not think that the best way to fix this is by making the tax revenue from those small companies equivalent to PAYE. Operating as a sole trader gives additional risks re: things such as holiday pay, sick days, etc and that needs to be recognised.

I don't fundamentally disagree with dividends and capital gains being taxed at the same rate as income tax. Interest was brought into line a few years ago for instance but there does need to be some consideration on how that dividend revenue is generated.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by android » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:49 pm

Erasmus wrote:To Paul Waine. Paul, what you are referring to in relation to the Netherlands is in fact a ring-fenced tax that is to be used solely for healthcare provision. To enable the Dutch government to provide a better standard of healthcare than we have via the NHS it requires that ring-fenced tax to be a good bit higher than what is paid in the UK. To implement that system here would mean better off people paying more in order to achieve a higher standard of healthcare for all, rich and poor. That is essentially the Labour Party's policy, just a different means of collecting the taxation.

Android, I certainly do give the Conservative Party credit for raising the payment threshold for taxation and for the other measures you mention. However, the benefits of that raise go to all of us, me included. I like it, but I could well do without it. So it doesn't seem to be the best way of restributing wealth to those most in need.

And set against that you have the actual lived reality of the poorest people in the country. Schools not opening five days, the health service at breaking point, the appalling standard of social care for the elderly, 1.5 million people having used food banks because of destitution, and depriving people of any money at all for six weeks when they move to Universal Credit. And other factors that could be mentioned. So yes, credit where credit is due, but what you mention doesn't do anything like balancing out the cruel hardships that so many have had to endure because of government policies.
Thanks Erasmus. Helping the poorest concerns us all but how to tackle it is complicated. In 2010 there was overriding sentiment that public spending was too high (obvious from the size of the annual deficit) and now sentiment has shifted and all the main parties are proposing increases to public spending. You think the answer is the Labour spending spree and I think that it is a near certainty that it would lead to high inflation and high unemployment, which ultimately will hurt the poorest most.

No doubt the Tories have got some things wrong but it just annoys me that so many on here not only fail to recognise that the rich/high earners are paying higher rates of personal tax under the Tories than they did under Labour but actually try to spin it the other way around.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:08 pm

aggi wrote:Yes, having looked at the same it is a bit more than I thought. I forgot that you couldn't get EA as a sole director.

Personally I think there are two issues being mixed together here.

There are employees masquerading as companies in order to take advantage of the tax benefits (both "employee" and employer). This has been approached somewhat with IR35 and the recent changes to contractors at public firms but I believe considerably more needs to be done to sort out this, dodgy umbrella firms, etc.

However, I do not think that the best way to fix this is by making the tax revenue from those small companies equivalent to PAYE. Operating as a sole trader gives additional risks re: things such as holiday pay, sick days, etc and that needs to be recognised.

I don't fundamentally disagree with dividends and capital gains being taxed at the same rate as income tax. Interest was brought into line a few years ago for instance but there does need to be some consideration on how that dividend revenue is generated.
Agreed. I have no problem with dividends taxed in line if it is investment income because that is different.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:36 pm

Toxic for Boris?

Channel 4 debate: Empty chairs if Farage and PM don't come
There will be empty chairs to represent Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage if they do not turn up to the televised election climate change debate between party leaders later, Channel 4 confirms.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:50 pm

What can you say about the racist Etonian?

Johnson to be interviewed by Andrew Marr after refusing interview with Andrew Neil

This is bound to ruffle a few feathers. Boris Johnson, who is said to be refusing to sit down for an interview with the BBC's Andrew Neil, despite the other party leaders having done so, is now reportedly set to be appear on the Andrew Marr Show this Sunday. No10 will likely use the appearance to point out that the prime minister is happy to be interviewed by the BBC, but that won't satisfy those who want him to face Neil's forensic scrutiny.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:05 pm

Spijed wrote:What can you say about the racist Etonian?

Johnson to be interviewed by Andrew Marr after refusing interview with Andrew Neil

This is bound to ruffle a few feathers. Boris Johnson, who is said to be refusing to sit down for an interview with the BBC's Andrew Neil, despite the other party leaders having done so, is now reportedly set to be appear on the Andrew Marr Show this Sunday. No10 will likely use the appearance to point out that the prime minister is happy to be interviewed by the BBC, but that won't satisfy those who want him to face Neil's forensic scrutiny.
You can say he's not racist, for a start.

What's the evidence? That he said Muslim women ought to be allowed to dress up in outfits like pillar boxes if they so wish, and using the words piccaninnies, AIDS-ridden choristers, and water melon smiles, 18 years ago. Hardly the stuff of BNP.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:10 pm

dsr wrote:You can say he's not racist, for a start.

What's the evidence? That he said Muslim women ought to be allowed to dress up in outfits like pillar boxes if they so wish, and using the words piccaninnies, AIDS-ridden choristers, and water melon smiles, 18 years ago. Hardly the stuff of BNP.
people who are not racist dont use those words and phrases, whereas those who do are open to the allegation. I've made my own mind up.
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Spijed
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:14 pm

dsr wrote:You can say he's not racist, for a start.

What's the evidence? That he said Muslim women ought to be allowed to dress up in outfits like pillar boxes if they so wish, and using the words piccaninnies, AIDS-ridden choristers, and water melon smiles, 18 years ago. Hardly the stuff of BNP.
On Tuesday, If someone said to Raheem Sterling that he had a "Watermelon smile", would that not be racist?
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by dsr » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:29 pm

Spijed wrote:On Tuesday, If someone said to Raheem Sterling that he had a "Watermelon smile", would that not be racist?
Probably - it would depend on the context, though.

Boris Johnson was writing an ironic piece about Tony Blair (who he described as the "Great White Chief") doing a grand post-colonial tour of the world spreading joy and peace by his kingly presence while ignoring the problems at home. It was mocking his colonial attitude. And the article was specifically talking about visiting the Congo, where most of the inhabitants have dark skin, and it made reference to the inhabitants in colonial-era language.

It could be said to be misjudged, or patronising, or even (if you like) racist. But how seriously do you take it? Is it your opinion that just as Hitler was racist, so is Johnson? That everyone who has ever used the word piccaninny, even ironically, is damned for all time as a racist?

And that leads to the follow up question - how trivial is racism? How trivial do you want it to be? If it is to be accepted that anyone who uses one wrong word in a lifetime is to be called "racist", then you are making "racist" into such a trivial thing that nine tenths of the world (or more) fits. What about people who tell Irish jokes? What about people who say the full name of the band NWA? There are all sorts of trivialities that can define someone as racist, but to do so takes away the seriousness of the issue. Racism is a big issue, not one to be used in petty political points scoring.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:34 pm

martin_p wrote:It's not against the rules as long as you're paying yourself at least minimum wage, attracting no income tax.
Hi martin, I recommend you do some reading up on tax rules. Yes, I know they are complicated, much too complicated, many would suggest.

Why would dividends be subject to national insurance? Most dividends are rec'd by people who are shareholders in the company. If they are also employed elsewhere they will be paying NICs on their income from employment. If they are pensioners, then NIC doesn't apply. And, of course, dividends can be paid to shareholders who don't live in UK - and I don't just mean people who have moved abroad. So, people who don't live in UK and can't look to any "national insurance benefits" from UK gov't don't pay NIC.

You correctly state that NIC doesn't apply on dividends. I'm sure you know that corporation tax is paid on all profits - and dividends are only paid out of profits that have already paid CT. Not really a great tax dodge for an employee to avoid NIC - which is charged at 2% on earnings above the upper limit, and 12% on earnings below this limit - But, to avoid this 2% you have to pay CT at 19% and then additional tax on the dividends rec'd (currently with £2,000 allowance). So, current arrangements of 7.5%, for basic rate tax payer recognises that 19% ct has already been paid. And, a higher rate is charged for higher rate tax payers (I don't have that figure to mind as I type - easy to look it up for anyone who wants/needs to know).

And, there is more about national insurance: payable at 4 different rates, including self-employed rate (think it's class 4, but don't hold me to getting that number right) that doesn't get people who pay that rate any entitlement to state pension (and, possibly not sick pay).

Interesting thing, I don't think minimum wage applies to director/owner of business. What if you've not got any clients/earnings to pay yourself, but are still doing 50-60 hours a week to try and win some business?

Anyone know different on minimum wage and self-employed/director/owner?

Pstotto
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Pstotto » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:40 pm

I spoke to some Labour activists hoping to get my vote, today on the doorstep. They got in, in Canterbury over an ISIS-style Nutella campaign for free sweeties for students (tuition fees), during a term-time election in a town where the student/local population is 1:1.

When I needed to write to my MP, I realized she was just a figurehead and a puppet for a political machine, I received a generic reply from what seemed like a call centre where my issue raised was not even mentioned.

I wrote to her again about a banning drivers for life who have recklessly killed another on the roads. Given the swiftness of the Benn Act introduction it would take five minutes in Parliament to make the bill but instead I got a letter back about prison sentences and nothing to do with life driving bans for all such culprits.

The aim of her office is not to serve the people but to strut politically as an authoritarian figure.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Erasmus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:49 pm

I agree with the sentiments, Android, but I think the levels of poverty and deprivation in this country are just unacceptable. How to deal with it is complicated and requires the endeavours of persons who have both intelligence and high integrity. But the fact is that the present situation is a national emergency and 'more of the same' or small-scale measures are just inadequate. When I go to the supermarket and put a few groceries in the food bank box, I feel sick in the stomach, angry and appalled that in a country as rich as ours we have sunk to this level.

And I just don't think the likes of Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg or Dominic Raab will do anything significant to change things. And after a while people will start to get used to it and accept it as normal. There is a global emergency with regard to climate change and a national emergency with regard to poverty and destitution, and nothing that Johnson has ever said or done suggests he is the man to deal with the situation.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AlargeClaret » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:01 pm

Poverty and deprivation ? God almighty the average council estate in the 50’s-80’s had the above in bundles . Drug/alcohol abuse ,illegal and legal immigration and a stock % of people who choose that life /slip through the net account for the vast majority . It’s grand scale state dependency

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:48 pm

Conservative candidates issued with a seventeen page briefing on how to attack rival parties, including many misleading claims - says the Guardian. I suppose it’s easier than trying to defend nine years of really **** performance, and repeating the meaningless; “let’s get Brexit done!”

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:00 pm

So we are expected to believe that Johnson will stand up to the likes of Putin and Trump when he's **** scared of Andrew Neil?
This user liked this post: Bainsyclaret

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:02 pm

Buzzfeed is reporting that the PM is threatening to review Channel 4's broadcasting licence after the ice sculpture stunt.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:06 pm

Spijed wrote:Buzzfeed is reporting that the PM is threatening to review Channel 4's broadcasting licence after the ice sculpture stunt.
Johnson punching downwards as usual.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:18 pm

C02FE9C7-AD1E-4122-A7B0-032DAA2961CA.jpeg
C02FE9C7-AD1E-4122-A7B0-032DAA2961CA.jpeg (299.69 KiB) Viewed 1454 times

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:27 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:The NHS was 70 years old last year.

The tories have been in charge of it for around 44/45 of those years.

It's still here.


Any attempt to sell it would clearly be idiotic, permanent electoral suicide.

Labour introduced the mill stone around the NHS neck PFI initiatives that will financially burden the NHS for decades.

Dentistry used to be free on the NHS, while in office did labour reinstate free dentistry?

No

The optician used to be free on the NHS, while in office did labour reinstate free opticians?

No.

BURNLEY'S VERY OWN LOCAL A AND E UNIT WAS SHUT BY A LABOUR GOVERNMENT


I SUPPOSE THAT WAS DOWN TO TORY AUSTERITY!!

The NHS was created by labour and 3 years later it added charges for dentistry as it was unaffordable. It was only free for 3 years.

Who introduced charges for prescriptions?

Who has spent the last 9 years underfunding the NHS?

Who is going to provide 50k nurse, or is that 20k or 10k? Who knows it’s a lie anyway.

Who cut student nurse bursaries?



The NHS is not safe in the tories hands. I’ve seen first hand every day what the tories have done to the NHS.
Last edited by Inchy on Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inchy
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
C02FE9C7-AD1E-4122-A7B0-032DAA2961CA.jpeg


Victims of the tories running the NHS to the ground



Everyone

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:33 pm

When Milliband lost, how he ate a bacon sandwich was a big deal

Boris can lie, be racist, be homophobic, be disparaging towards single mothers, and still win an election


How the hell did this happen

Damo
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:39 pm

Inchy wrote:When Milliband lost, how he ate a bacon sandwich was a big deal

Boris can lie, be racist, be homophobic, be disparaging towards single mothers, and still win an election


How the hell did this happen
Are you a massive Corbynista Inchy?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:50 pm

Damo wrote:Are you a massive Corbynista Inchy?
At least Corbyn is willing to face totally unscripted questions.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spijed » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:51 pm

This shows how biased the BBC is towards the Tories.

Craig Murray
@CraigMurrayOrg
Both Corbyn's and Sturgeon's team told by the BBC Johnson would also do an Andrew Neil interview. That is why they agreed to the ordeal.
Not only did the BBC lie, they are now discussing with No.10 to "compensate" Johnson for "time balance" with his choice of interviewer.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by fatboy47 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:51 pm

:lol: :lol:

i see the Tories are wheeling out their intellectual big beasts on here. Go for it Damo and Kate!!

I'm outta here! :shock: :shock:

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:52 pm

Damo wrote:Are you a massive Corbynista Inchy?
He's just making a very good point.

You are one of the brighter and more rational ones from the other side of the debate on here Damo.

I get that Brexit is a big deal for some, I get that disliking Corbyn is a big deal for others, but surely this is a "none of the above" election rather than giving Johnson five years to do what he wants?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:54 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, I recommend you do some reading up on tax rules. Yes, I know they are complicated, much too complicated, many would suggest.

Why would dividends be subject to national insurance? Most dividends are rec'd by people who are shareholders in the company. If they are also employed elsewhere they will be paying NICs on their income from employment. If they are pensioners, then NIC doesn't apply. And, of course, dividends can be paid to shareholders who don't live in UK - and I don't just mean people who have moved abroad. So, people who don't live in UK and can't look to any "national insurance benefits" from UK gov't don't pay NIC.

You correctly state that NIC doesn't apply on dividends. I'm sure you know that corporation tax is paid on all profits - and dividends are only paid out of profits that have already paid CT. Not really a great tax dodge for an employee to avoid NIC - which is charged at 2% on earnings above the upper limit, and 12% on earnings below this limit - But, to avoid this 2% you have to pay CT at 19% and then additional tax on the dividends rec'd (currently with £2,000 allowance). So, current arrangements of 7.5%, for basic rate tax payer recognises that 19% ct has already been paid. And, a higher rate is charged for higher rate tax payers (I don't have that figure to mind as I type - easy to look it up for anyone who wants/needs to know).

And, there is more about national insurance: payable at 4 different rates, including self-employed rate (think it's class 4, but don't hold me to getting that number right) that doesn't get people who pay that rate any entitlement to state pension (and, possibly not sick pay).

Interesting thing, I don't think minimum wage applies to director/owner of business. What if you've not got any clients/earnings to pay yourself, but are still doing 50-60 hours a week to try and win some business?

Anyone know different on minimum wage and self-employed/director/owner?
I’m perfectly aware of the tax rules thank you. I’m also perfectly aware that any accountant worth his salt will tell anyone providing contracting or consultancy services as an individual that setting up a company is the most ‘tax efficient’ way of organising your income, especially if you’ll be earning over the 40% tax band.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's just making a very good point.

You are one of the brighter and more rational ones from the other side of the debate on here Damo.

I get that Brexit is a big deal for some, I get that disliking Corbyn is a big deal for others, but surely this is a "none of the above" election rather than giving Johnson five years to do what he wants?
I didnt say anything about his point pal. He asked me yesterday if I was a massive tory, because he "never sees me slag Boris Johnson off" so I'm just asking him the same question, given that he always slags the tories off.

Of course, I had the good grace to answer when he asked

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Damo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:06 pm

Spijed wrote:At least Corbyn is willing to face totally unscripted questions.
Ok, Roger irrelevant

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