General Election Is On

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nil_desperandum
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by nil_desperandum » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:41 am

claretandy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:23 am
James O'Brien is absolutely furious that Boris won't do the Neil interview, even though he just admitted even if he did it wouldn't change a thing.
But that's not the point is it?
If your leader hasn't got the courage and skill to negotiate an interview with a journalist, then what confidence can we have that he has the skills and backbone to negotiate with world leaders to get a good deal for Britain

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:43 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:41 am
But that's not the point is it?
If your leader hasn't got the courage and skill to negotiate an interview with a journalist, then what confidence can we have that he has the skills and backbone to negotiate with world leaders to get a good deal for Britain

I agree, but they've made the calculation that the it won't matter.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:43 am

claretandy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:23 am
James O'Brien is absolutely furious that Boris won't do the Neil interview, even though he just admitted even if he did it wouldn't change a thing.
if that's truly the case then Boris has nothing to lose, so why doesn't he do it...? It's because he can ONLY lose by doing so. He's a chicken and a charlatan and he's being found out at every turn now. People who blindingly vote Tory are even beginning to question him.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Mala591 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:44 am

I have been studying the Labour Party manifesto to check out their IMMIGRATION POLICY. Apart from some vague reference to a family reunion policy (which is obviously very important) there is little else of substance.

Labour's 'soft Brexit' policy (no Brexit policy?) is also similarly vague. Will there be an end to EU free movement or not? Will we just have an open door/free for all immigration policy?

These important questions need to be considered before deciding how to vote next Thursday.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:46 am

What result do you get?

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:53 am

If anything sums up the fantasy land that Corbyn n Co live in ,surely JC and JM offering to “ give chequers and no11 Downing st to the homeless “ is a perfect taste of the idiotic hard left . The saddest thing is that they’re deadly serious

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:24 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:46 am
What result do you get?

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/
that seemed harder than it should have, but my results are below:
survey results.JPG
survey results.JPG (42.28 KiB) Viewed 2920 times

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by android » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:15 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:04 pm
The Tory alternative is a hard Brexit. Who voted for that?! Who wants or needs a hard Brexit, apart the few who will benefit financially from this country’s ills?

If Brexit had been defined as a particular “thing” then it wouldn’t have won in the referendum. The time to define Brexit was then, or at least right after the vote.
Your questions have been debated at length. My questions still have not been answered by anyone including you and Rick.

No-one has been able to suggest an MP who would campaign for Corbyn's Leave deal and no-one has been able to suggest anyone who would be likely to vote for it in his version of a 2nd referendum. Extraordinary isn't it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:42 pm

F#cking hell... so Channel 4 news broadcast Boris using the phrase "People of Colour" earlier today and I watched it and heard exactly what he said. Now, they have removed the original video and replaced it with one that seems to be doctored enough to make it sound like he may have said "People of talent" instead of "People of colour". Do your research people - there are copies of the original clip on the internet - there are already people analysing with sound applications to prove the second video has been doctored.

If this doesn't demonstrate how much leverage the government has with the media nothing will convince you will it...

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:53 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:23 am
I don't want to burst your bubble Andrew but three million new voters haven't registered recently,many of those who registered will already be on the electoral role,it is true that there will be some new voters due to the new register,but it won't be in the millions,as ever the problem amongst younger voters is how many will bother to vote,you'd think with issues such as climate change and brexit they'd be more politically engaged,but we'll find out post-election if that's driven higher turnout.
I just happened to see some figures on this earlier:

2019 in total:

18-24: 2531660
25-34: 3088328
35-44: 1694363
45-54: 1073320
55-64: 689353
65-74: 366807
75+ 199595

Total: 9,643,426

The electoral commission says that on average of 37% of registrations are duplicate registrations

That gives ~ 6m new registrations of which ~ 3.5m are aged under 34.

Turnout is obviously a different matter.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Channel 4 news caught out lying trying to smear Boris, no wonder he wouldn't go on their debate, activism disguised as journalism.
Attachments
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:59 pm

claretandy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:25 pm
Channel 4 news caught out lying trying to smear Boris, no wonder he wouldn't go on their debate, activism disguised as journalism.
I know exactly what I heard. Channel 4 have been influenced the original tweet was here https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 16/video/1

Here is a link that appears to work but I stress, this is not the original that I heard

https://twitter.com/ItCorbyn/status/1202915684566605830

and another, but the quality is poor here

https://twitter.com/simpson_anton/statu ... 6176325632

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:36 pm

It has a bit of the yanny-laurel effect people were debating a while back where people hear the word pronounced differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

He definitely does say 'talent', although when I first heard it I also though he said 'colour'. 'People of talent' is a strange turn of phrase. 'Talented people' would sound more normal which is why, especially in the context of a talk on immigration, people's minds might have tuned to hearing 'colour', a more commonly used turn of phrase. For what it's worth the phrase 'people of colour' isn't racist or bigoted (except in a most obvious and blatantly racist context) and it wouldn't really be much of an issue even if he did say 'colour'. It's novel to see an apology, though. It's also novel to see right wingers describe news outlets as activism disguised as journalism, presumably said with a straight face, and I can't help but think that an apology wouldn't be as forthcoming were the mistake made by certain other media outlets; a double standard quite clearly lost on the claretandy's of the world.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:46 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:36 pm
It has a bit of the yanny-laurel effect people were debating a while back where people hear the word pronounced differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

He definitely does say 'talent', although when I first heard it I also though he said 'colour'. 'People of talent' is a strange turn of phrase. 'Talented people' would sound more normal which is why, especially in the context of a talk on immigration, people's minds might have tuned to hearing 'colour', a more commonly used turn of phrase. For what it's worth the phrase 'people of colour' isn't racist or bigoted (except in a most obvious and blatantly racist context) and it wouldn't really be much of an issue even if he did say 'colour'. It's novel to see an apology, though. It's also novel to see right wingers describe news outlets as activism disguised as journalism, presumably said with a straight face, and I can't help but think that an apology wouldn't be as forthcoming were the mistake made by certain other media outlets; a double standard quite clearly lost on the claretandy's of the world.
I’m pretty sure he said ‘talent’, that’s what the lips look like they’re saying. But if he had said colour I don’t think it’s his terminology that would have been the issue but the fact he was suggesting immigration should be controlled based on the colour of people’s skin.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:48 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:36 pm
It has a bit of the yanny-laurel effect people were debating a while back where people hear the word pronounced differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

He definitely does say 'talent', although when I first heard it I also though he said 'colour'. 'People of talent' is a strange turn of phrase. 'Talented people' would sound more normal which is why, especially in the context of a talk on immigration, people's minds might have tuned to hearing 'colour', a more commonly used turn of phrase. For what it's worth the phrase 'people of colour' isn't racist or bigoted (except in a most obvious and blatantly racist context) and it wouldn't really be much of an issue even if he did say 'colour'. It's novel to see an apology, though. It's also novel to see right wingers describe news outlets as activism disguised as journalism, presumably said with a straight face, and I can't help but think that an apology wouldn't be as forthcoming were the mistake made by certain other media outlets; a double standard quite clearly lost on the claretandy's of the world.
I understand what you're saying. I'm convinced I know what I heard when I first listened to the audio earlier today and I must say that I did listen at first and not watch, as it has been stated that if you read the words on the tweet whilst listening your subconscious affects what you hear. Since hearing it this morning, I have watched other versions of the clip - from the BBC for example, and the sound quality is different and the word "talent" is displayed and I can just about understand why it could be argued he said "talent" and not colour. My questions are these:

If Channel 4 genuinely got it wrong, why did they delete the original clip and not let the public decide for themselves? The original clip I saw had no subtitles that I can recall.

Where has this phrase "people of talent" come from? - I have never heard anyone use this before, but I have heard "people of colour", especially in regards to comments about immigration. (I know you'll say my brain is tuned to hear what it thinks it wants to hear and it will automatically conflate the 2, but I listened over and over and could only hear colour not talent)

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:52 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:48 pm
I understand what you're saying. I'm convinced I know what I heard when I first listened to the audio earlier today and I must say that I did listen at first and not watch, as it has been stated that if you read the words on the tweet whilst listening your subconscious affects what you hear. Since hearing it this morning, I have watched other versions of the clip - from the BBC for example, and the sound quality is different and the word "talent" is displayed and I can just about understand why it could be argued he said "talent" and not colour. My questions are these:

If Channel 4 genuinely got it wrong, why did they delete the original clip and not let the public decide for themselves? The original clip I saw had no subtitles that I can recall.

Where has this phrase "people of talent" come from? - I have never heard anyone use this before, but I have heard "people of colour", especially in regards to comments about immigration. (I know you'll say my brain is tuned to hear what it thinks it wants to hear and it will automatically conflate the 2, but I listened over and over and could only hear colour not talent)
Boris Johnson doesn’t use the English language the same way as your average man in the street, there’s lots of things he says that you don’t hear other people say. He probably uses ‘people of talent’ all the time.

It’s a bit of a non-story this one.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Greenmile » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:52 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:36 pm
... It's also novel to see right wingers describe news outlets as activism disguised as journalism, presumably said with a straight face, and I can't help but think that an apology wouldn't be as forthcoming were the mistake made by certain other media outlets; a double standard quite clearly lost on the claretandy's of the world.
You’re talking about someone who (apparently seriously) described “I, Daniel Blake” as far-left propaganda. I’m not sure claretandy is actually of this world.

Edit - sincere apologies to claretandy, who I appear to have got mixed up with AndyClaret. claretandy did not say that about “I, Daniel Blake”.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:55 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:48 pm
I understand what you're saying. I'm convinced I know what I heard when I first listened to the audio earlier today and I must say that I did listen at first and not watch, as it has been stated that if you read the words on the tweet whilst listening your subconscious affects what you hear. Since hearing it this morning, I have watched other versions of the clip - from the BBC for example, and the sound quality is different and the word "talent" is displayed and I can just about understand why it could be argued he said "talent" and not colour. My questions are these:

If Channel 4 genuinely got it wrong, why did they delete the original clip and not let the public decide for themselves? The original clip I saw had no subtitles that I can recall.

Where has this phrase "people of talent" come from? - I have never heard anyone use this before, but I have heard "people of colour", especially in regards to comments about immigration. (I know you'll say my brain is tuned to hear what it thinks it wants to hear and it will automatically conflate the 2, but I listened over and over and could only hear colour not talent)
Here he is on 14th November using the same phrase, "people of talent"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:56 pm

It's all moot anyway because he 100% says talent, but I was able to hear both when I tuned my ears to hear each word. Besides, Johnson has no interest in controlling immigration. The control of borders is a policy only ever intended to be wielded theoretically and is being used by fake brexiteers like Johnson and other actual brexiteers to advance their politics, but all that will really happen will be eastern European immigration reduced in order to generate headlines, thus political capital, while quietly liberalising visa paths for Indian subcontinent/Pakistani immigration.
Last edited by Spiral on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:57 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:36 pm
It has a bit of the yanny-laurel effect people were debating a while back where people hear the word pronounced differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

He definitely does say 'talent', although when I first heard it I also though he said 'colour'. 'People of talent' is a strange turn of phrase. 'Talented people' would sound more normal which is why, especially in the context of a talk on immigration, people's minds might have tuned to hearing 'colour', a more commonly used turn of phrase. For what it's worth the phrase 'people of colour' isn't racist or bigoted (except in a most obvious and blatantly racist context) and it wouldn't really be much of an issue even if he did say 'colour'. It's novel to see an apology, though. It's also novel to see right wingers describe news outlets as activism disguised as journalism, presumably said with a straight face, and I can't help but think that an apology wouldn't be as forthcoming were the mistake made by certain other media outlets; a double standard quite clearly lost on the claretandy's of the world.
It's amazing watching all the usual suspects utterly convinced he said "colour" because it's fits their narrative, even after channel 4 news corrected their mistake.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm

Are you talking about me, claretandy, because you've directly quoted me as saying 'he definitely does say talent' and it'd be odd of you to characterise me as being utterly convinced he said colour.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:04 pm

claretandy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:55 pm
Here he is on 14th November using the same phrase, "people of talent"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50412772
thanks for that clip. I have never heard that phrase before, perhaps I do need to get out more.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:09 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm
Are you talking about me, claretandy, because you've directly quoted me as saying 'he definitely does say talent' and it'd be odd of you to characterise me as being utterly convinced he said colour.
I quoted you because you mentioned that channel 4 have withdrawn it, i was pointing out that the usual suspects (on twitter) were still running with it, Femi the t-shirt and Ayo "***** like a champion" Ceasar.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification. It wasn't me that mentioned C4 has withdrawn it, but I take your point. It's a surprise to nobody that twitter, like the rest of the internet, and like in life, is full of partisan hacks.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by !aiboforceN » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:21 pm

Worth a watch (and a share) if you can spare 5 minutes:
https://www.facebook.com/kath.henderson ... 538020595/

Inchy
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:04 pm

As expected.

I think I’m more centre left than Corbyn and more left than Blair. I believe most labour supporters are the same

LABOUR 37.5%
Lib Dem 25%
Green 25%
Conservative 12.5%

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:06 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:45 pm
I think you are missing the point of democracy. At the European election, 35% of voters voted for Brexit or UKIP - that is, parties whose sole policy was Brexit now, deal or no deal. It's all very well to say that you believe they are wrong. But to say they are so very wrong that they musn't be allowed to vote again for what they voted for last time? That their preferred option must be ignored because they aren't fit to express it? That's not democracy.
More people voted for Remain parties during the EU elections than leave parties, yet the Tories will just take us out without a deal at all. How is that democratic? At least Labour are offering a choice for the people.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:13 pm

In not very shocking news it seems that Johnson may have been a little economical with the truth when he said that there weren't going to be any customs checks between NI and GB https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/ ... 3754244096

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:41 pm

Even Brexiteers must be getting bored of hearing Boris saying "get Brexit done" every five minutes.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:44 pm

Corbyn bangs on about a "Trump trade deal" and then goes on to say that it will take 7 years when Trump will be long gone.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by HunterST_BFC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:49 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:41 pm
Even Brexiteers must be getting bored of hearing Boris saying "get Brexit done" every five minutes.

... I've just filled my Bingo card.
It only had this on 24 times...

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:53 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:53 pm
I just happened to see some figures on this earlier:

2019 in total:

18-24: 2531660
25-34: 3088328
35-44: 1694363
45-54: 1073320
55-64: 689353
65-74: 366807
75+ 199595

Total: 9,643,426

The electoral commission says that on average of 37% of registrations are duplicate registrations

That gives ~ 6m new registrations of which ~ 3.5m are aged under 34.

Turnout is obviously a different matter.
If there is a large turnout from the youth generation then that could throw a surprise result into the mix,but historically that's unlikely.

If the issues at stake in this election don't motivate under 35's to go to the polling station then nothing ever will.

There is no point protesting if you're not going make your voice heard at the ballot box.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:54 pm

Boris has brexit. That’s it. Bugger all else


Do people really care about brexit that much?


PS the hospital I work at is one of these new hospital. It’s already been built! Over 100 years ago! It’s basically a refurb if an old hospital. Apparently that’s a new hospital.

I’m going to tell my son I’m going to buy him a new toy car by painting his old one

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:58 pm

Just for clarity Boris used the phrase "people of talent" during the BBC debate so we can put that to bed.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:59 pm

Inchy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:54 pm
Boris has brexit. That’s it. Bugger all else


Do people really care about brexit that much?
He's very lucky that there are enough people that do care about it. Or maybe don't really care that much about Brexit itself but care that they "won".

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:24 pm

Literally everything asked to Boris is being diverted to brexit.

Boris isn’t winning or losing this but In a way he is winning this. Labour needed to do a lot more to make a difference. Corbyn has done nothing in this debate to take Boris down

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:24 pm

You couldn't make this up :lol:

On who performed best in the #BBCDebate:

Boris Johnson: 52%
Jeremy Corbyn: 48%

via @YouGov
Representative survey of viewers

Chris Curtis, political research manager at YouGov, tells BBC Radio 5 live that the Conservatives will likely be happy tonight, given the results of the snap poll.

He says: "The result was 52% for Boris Johnson and 48% for Jeremy Corbyn. It is basically the same result as we saw last time round.

"With six days to go I think Jeremy Corbyn needed a bigger win tonight.

"Given that the Conservatives went into this evening with a fairly comfortable nine-point lead in the opinion polls I think what Labour were hoping for was that a good performance from Jeremy Corbyn would help close that gap in the coming days."

Tonight was the last chance saloon for Corbyn to turn the tide,and he failed to deliver.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:50 pm

Inchy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:54 pm
Boris has brexit. That’s it. Bugger all else


Do people really care about brexit that much?


PS the hospital I work at is one of these new hospital. It’s already been built! Over 100 years ago! It’s basically a refurb if an old hospital. Apparently that’s a new hospital.

I’m going to tell my son I’m going to buy him a new toy car by painting his old one
It's a tricky question to answer. If it's a straightforward: Corbyn's manifesto+Remain v Boris+Brexit, then my answer is Corbyn. That's easy.

But it's not that simple. The Labour front bench misled an awful lot of people in 2017 when they did everything to persuade us they were committed to Brexit. Their reversal since is akin to the Lib Dem 'pledge' of 2010; Labour, first and foremost, are supposed to offer representation to the under-privileged. Yet, having failed to persuade most of the less privileged of the case for remain, they just ditched them instead. This is not representation - it is snobbery; Labour's other obligation is to uphold democracy (for the underprivileged are totally lost without democracy). They are not doing this; Labour's manifesto, magnificent though I consider it to be, is not possible to enact under EU law; Corbyn's abject failure to stand up to the centrists/blairites on the issue of Brexit suggests - when push comes to shove - he will fail to stand up to them on all his other plans too. Corbyn would not get this manifesto past his own MPs, let alone the commons. His staunchest supporter among MPs - Chris Williamson - was not allowed to stand, yet his fiercest critic - Margaret Hodge - can.

I'm left asking what the hell am I actually voting for here?

I'll be voting Labour, but they deserve to lose this election.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:24 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:59 pm
I know exactly what I heard. Channel 4 have been influenced the original tweet was here https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 16/video/1

Here is a link that appears to work but I stress, this is not the original that I heard

https://twitter.com/ItCorbyn/status/1202915684566605830

and another, but the quality is poor here

https://twitter.com/simpson_anton/statu ... 6176325632
Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:59 pm
Look, please stop using bold and large fonts to try and enforce your warped view on things

Mr kettle, may I introduce you to Mr Pot!

:lol: :lol:

RingoMcCartney
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:28 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:42 pm
F#cking hell... so Channel 4 news broadcast Boris using the phrase "People of Colour" earlier today and I watched it and heard exactly what he said. Now, they have removed the original video and replaced it with one that seems to be doctored enough to make it sound like he may have said "People of talent" instead of "People of colour". Do your research people - there are copies of the original clip on the internet - there are already people analysing with sound applications to prove the second video has been doctored. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If this doesn't demonstrate how much leverage the government has with the media nothing will convince you will it...
The only thing it does demonstrate is the left and their collaborators at the TV version of the Guardian are prepared to broadcast smears and fake news, and saps like you coming running with a bucket !!


:lol: :lol:


Mugged off BIG STYLE


:lol: :lol:
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

CrosspoolClarets
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:31 pm

I thought Johnson (after performing badly in some other interviews) smashed it out of the park tonight. No mistakes.

He was only put into office (by the party who dislike him) to finish off Corbyn. I suspect he is on the home run now. Polls are starting to lengthen again, Yougov say he won tonight, it is hard to see where the Labour gains come from.

Ultimately, moderate Labour has an appeal to many after years of austerity, but hard left socialism rightly scares off many of them.
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RingoMcCartney
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:38 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:04 pm
thanks for that clip. I have never heard that phrase before, perhaps I do need to get out more.
Never a more truer word said!

:lol:

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:53 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:31 pm
I thought Johnson (after performing badly in some other interviews) smashed it out of the park tonight. No mistakes.

He was only put into office (by the party who dislike him) to finish off Corbyn. I suspect he is on the home run now. Polls are starting to lengthen again, Yougov say he won tonight, it is hard to see where the Labour gains come from.

Ultimately, moderate Labour has an appeal to many after years of austerity, but hard left socialism rightly scares off many of them.
That's a pretty fair summing up,actually both leaders seemed more intent on appealing to their tribal voters rather than winning late converts,the problem for Labour is a hard left agenda isn't going to win over many floating voters,it was notable that in the post-debate interviews of voters in the marginal Ipswich seat,many are skeptical of Johnson and the Conservatives,but faced with the alternative of a Corbyn led government,they'll bite the bullet and vote Conservative in the main.

In 20/30 years time when historians discuss this election it'll be seen as a missed opportunity by Labour,an unpopular government that's been in office for nearly a decade,and with a marmite figure in Johnson as their leader,plus internal divisions amongst some of their MP'S.

And despite all these woes it looks like Boris will get an outright majority,how big a majority might well depend on how the smaller parties fare,but it's hard to see which seats Labour can gain,perhaps a couple in London but beyond there it's looking bleak,the problem Labour has to solve is how are they ever going to win a majority without their 40+ Scottish seats,which aren't returning anytime soon.

AndrewJB
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:32 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:31 pm
I thought Johnson (after performing badly in some other interviews) smashed it out of the park tonight. No mistakes.

He was only put into office (by the party who dislike him) to finish off Corbyn. I suspect he is on the home run now. Polls are starting to lengthen again, Yougov say he won tonight, it is hard to see where the Labour gains come from.

Ultimately, moderate Labour has an appeal to many after years of austerity, but hard left socialism rightly scares off many of them.
Johnson's offer: A hard brexit, uncosted tax breaks, and more spending on the NHS and justice - which aren't at all clear and at best reverse some of his party's cuts in those areas. And more austerity. None of it adds up, and he lies so much it's hard to know what he's serious about and what he's willing to go back on. With brexit he'll get us stuck in years of negotiations to try to win us free trade with the EU and other countries (we already have it with the EU), so it won't "get brexit done"

Corbyn's offer: An end to austerity, and taking back control of; power, water, the rail network, the internet network, Royal Mail, the NHS, social care - all things the people should have control over. And things we used to own.

Look at it for yourselves. Johnson is promising - if you can believe him - more of the same, and Corbyn is putting forward a real platform for change from the crap we're in.

Don't vote Labour, but vote to get rid of the Tories.

aggi
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by aggi » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:01 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:28 pm
The only thing it does demonstrate is the left and their collaborators at the TV version of the Guardian are prepared to broadcast smears and fake news, and saps like you coming running with a bucket !!


:lol: :lol:


Mugged off BIG STYLE


:lol: :lol:
There's a certain irony about the sap who was quite happy to post smears and fake news about Jo Swinson posting about people eager to post smears and fake news.

Mugged off BIG STYLE

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Bfcboyo » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:51 am

Rick_Muller wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:14 am
This is truly unbelievable, well actually not that unbelievable because its a Tory saying it. People with learning difficulties should get paid less apparently... what a f#cking disgrace.

https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1 ... 2057112579

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/06/tory-can ... -11280594/

How much money would you lose each year buddy. I'm sure we can all chip in on here to help you out.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:00 am

Boris won last night purely on the fact he wasnt humiliated. If Corbyn was a strong leader he would have gone for Boris. He would have highlight all the lies. He should have focussed on that and less on his own policies. Boris had an easy ride. All he have to do is divert every question to brexit. The one time he was questioned about his lies he was able to brush it off as a joke. Corbyn should have gone to town on this subject.

It admirable that Corbyn was more interested in focusing on his own policies but that won’t win this election.


The only outcome I hope for is a minority Tory win (I would prefer labour to win and that’s how I will be voting but it’s clearly not achievable). Hopefully this will provide a weak Tory government and hopefully this will be enough to replace Corbyn. Preferably with someone with less baggage.

Labour need someone more in touch with the labour heartlands. Immigration isn’t an issue to Corbyn. It isn’t an issue for me. I believe in freedom of movement. However I understand that people in the industrial north have a real issue with that.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:51 am

if Labour had the SDP stance on culture (focus on family and community) and economy, with a moderate leader, they would have swept the board, whether pro or anti Brexit.

But they do not. The sooner the party can be moved in this direction the better we will be.
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:22 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:51 am
How much money would you lose each year buddy. I'm sure we can all chip in on here to help you out.
Like you’ve got a job :lol:

AndrewJB
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:24 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:51 am
How much money would you lose each year buddy. I'm sure we can all chip in on here to help you out.
What price is a person’s self worth?

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