General Election Is On

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bfcjg
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by bfcjg » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:47 pm

I'm amazed the lib-dems are so far behind the main two considering how appalling both Corbyn and Johnson are. If they had perhaps not been as arrogant at the start about becoming the government and cancelling Brexit they may well have really held the balance of
power and got a second referendum.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:01 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indy10 ... 4351%3famp On top of all his lies, the smears of opponents, the fake news, and evasion of scrutiny, now we know a Johnson government would change the law to prevent a judge calling him out on unlawful behaviour in office.

Nice.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:03 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:47 pm
I'm amazed the lib-dems are so far behind the main two considering how appalling both Corbyn and Johnson are. If they had perhaps not been as arrogant at the start about becoming the government and cancelling Brexit they may well have really held the balance of
power and got a second referendum.
Agree with this. They had an opportunity to gain a significant increase in seats. A centre ground party that in my view is much needed for the reasons you allude to. But they blew it standing on their main proposal to revoke Article 50. Should have just committed to a clear and firm proposal to hold a second referendum particularly as Corbyn has been so ambiguous and non-committal. Stupid decision.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:14 pm

taio wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:05 pm
Don't see a problem with sharing anonymised data for research and development purposes to improve health so long as it is shared safely.
Perhaps the answer is for people like yourself to opt in to such a scheme?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:20 pm

Spiral wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:37 pm
I suppose the worry for me isn't so much the data access in and of itself, but the deal that has been struck in the context of the wider story. That is, there's compelling argument to be made about the growing trend in the marketisation of healthcare. Whatever the justification, it's somewhat galling to see a taxpayer built commodity being licenced to a private firm, seemingly exclusively although I can't say for sure on that front, with no reuse commission or licence fee benefitting our country. There's a point made in the article DA linked a few posts up about the US demand to end data localisation, which is...concerning. Notable is the fact that Amazon has invested heavily in cloud storage (Amazon web services) in recent years. It's not inconceivable to see a UK-US trade deal stuck that sees AWS storing NHS patient data. This specific Amazon story we're talking about today doesn't relate to individual patient data, of course, but it's not difficult to envision how Amazon might utilise the database it has been given for free to better collect metadata on its customers, specifically their echo device users, and aggressively microtarget those customers, especially in a more marketized healthcare landscape. (People are kidding themselves if they believe this is anything other than the direction the Tories are taking us. Don't let whatever views you have on Brexit cloud this fact). There's the other massive elephant in the room in this not-all-too-inconceivable scenario, that is, Amazon becoming too big to fail, the untold consequences of failure, and the ridiculous power it gives the company and its CEO particularly in a time of stress or crisis. So that's why this story alarmed me. It points towards a bigger, bleaker picture where foreign companies have too much power over anyone reading this post. It's not so much that the Tories don't stand up for us, for the country, against this direction of travel; they are the ones actively pursuing this ideology. They don't represent the British, they represent money, regardless of its source. I think they're downright unpatriotic.
The Tories are the party of appeasement. First of Hitler, and now of wealth. In return, wealth floods into their coffers, frames the media debate, and shouts down contrary voices.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by tiger76 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:21 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:47 pm
I'm amazed the lib-dems are so far behind the main two considering how appalling both Corbyn and Johnson are. If they had perhaps not been as arrogant at the start about becoming the government and cancelling Brexit they may well have really held the balance of
power and got a second referendum.
Yes it's a great point,anyone with an ounce of sense knows the Lib Dems can never win a majority under FPTP,but they could have held the balance of power,Swinson's approval ratings are slumping the more people see of her,i guess they thought taking a revoke stance would have garnered many remain voters,but they've clearly misread the mood of the electorate.

They could still gain some Conservative remain-leaning seats,even with a smallish vote share,but they've limited their potential gains in most Labour areas,London could prove a good hunting ground,and perhaps some of the university towns,it's :( that in the current febrile environment we don't have a viable centrist party,plus the coalition during some of the austerity years is still haunting them.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:21 pm

If it be your will wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:14 pm
Perhaps the answer is for people like yourself to opt in to such a scheme?
One scheme is general health information and the other anonymised personal data so no need to opt into either.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:30 pm

taio wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:21 pm
One scheme is general health information and the other anonymised personal data so need need to opt into either.
It looks like you can opt out of this one: https://digital.nhs.uk/services/national-data-opt-out and I would recommend any sane person to do this. (Actually, insane people might have even more reason to do so, thinking about it.)

The problem with all these opt-outs, rather than opt-ins, is you keep having to go back to your GP every time you hear of another scheme or other. It's hard to keep up. In the last 5 years I've already been twice to opt out of NHS data sharing initiatives, now it looks like I'll have to go yet again. I resent my data (anonymised or otherwise) being flogged off without my express consent. I also resent having to stop it happening every year or so. There's probably more NHS data things I should be opting out of, but don't find out about them until my data is already in Amazon's possession.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Clarets4me » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:47 pm

I have no problem with my data being sold on a " name deleted " basis, to any drug company. It will raise money for the NHS, or my GP's practice, and help the company concerned with medical research ....

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:48 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 03636.html

Can’t afford to renationalise? We can’t afford not to.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:49 pm

Clarets4me wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:47 pm
I have no problem with my data being sold on a " name deleted " basis, to any drug company. It will raise money for the NHS, or my GP's practice, and help the company concerned with medical research ....
Will the NHS get any money for it if Amazon are selling it?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:52 pm

chorleyhere wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:51 pm
"The British diplomat in charge of explaining Brexit to the US government, Congress and public, has resigned, saying she was no longer prepared to “peddle half-truths on behalf of a government I do not trust”.
Diplomat, definition: a person sent to lie abroad for the benefit of their country.

Is that not the job description any more?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:59 pm

Her main problem was more to do with working for a govt that lied to its own people, was untrustworthy and gave her such unreliable information it started to make her job impossible.

If you are gonna go into foreign lands to represent your govt and fight for its best interests you'd at least want them to have your back and feel like you could trust them

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:04 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:16 pm
sold the very derivatives that brought about the banking crisis.
Hi Andrew, tell me about these derivatives that "brought about the banking crisis...."

Yes, yes, I know that the EU, in particular have blamed "derivatives" for the financial crisis. It's a mistake on their part. It comes from not understanding derivatives, what they are and how they can be used to reduce risk.

The shame was the politicians and regulators didn't understand derivatives before the financial crisis, so they encouraged the "wrong derivatives."

The new regulations they've created post-wfc also demonstrate that the politicians and regulators still don't understand derivatives.

Just my opinion, of course. Well mine and a lot of other people and, dare I suggest, many are recognised as experts in this domain.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:08 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:44 pm
Definately paid more taxes than you and your fella in the last ten years against your last twenty.
You definitely haven’t. Why ‘fella’? Consider it an insult to imply someone’s gay? You a homophobe?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:09 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Will the NHS get any money for it if Amazon are selling it?
More on this: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/1 ... d.html?m=1

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:18 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:49 pm
Will the NHS get any money for it if Amazon are selling it?
Possibly if whoever agrees to the idea & willingly goes ahead selling the information includes some sort of condition that a percentage goes towards the NHS. The important part I think you are missing crucially that this could further medical research & potentially serve to treat people more effectively & minimise patients distress ect.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:34 pm

Clarets4me wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:47 pm
I have no problem with my data being sold on a " name deleted " basis, to any drug company. It will raise money for the NHS, or my GP's practice, and help the company concerned with medical research ....
R&D is always the pretext with pharmaceutical companies, but marketing is the reason data is harvested. The sales and marketing budgets for the biggest pharmaceutical companies vastly outstrips their research investment. They aren't solely in the business of keeping people healthy like the NHS is. They're drug dealers. They exist to make money, in spite of whatever ridiculous mission statement they go for. The bargaining power of the NHS (while it lasts) means these companies aren't near as exploitative in the UK as they are in other countries. While these companies are absolutely necessary, the motives are slightly closer to Escobar than your GP. You're essentially saying 'I'm happy to facilitate the marketisation of healthcare'. The slow boiling frog springs to mind. At the risk of two separate but slightly connected stories being conflated, todays story in the times is that the database has been given to Amazon for free. The NHS and your GP won't see a single damn penny from that deal.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:39 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:18 pm
Possibly if whoever agrees to the idea & willingly goes ahead selling the information includes some sort of condition that a percentage goes towards the NHS. The important part I think you are missing crucially that this could further medical research & potentially serve to treat people more effectively & minimise patients distress ect.
I swear to f.ucking God if Labour had proposed this idea they'd be rightly strung up for selling out Britain. Boris tells people what they want to hear on Brexit and those people in turn attempt to validate every act of plunder the Tories commit. It's frightening.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:46 pm

If it be your will wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:30 pm
It looks like you can opt out of this one: https://digital.nhs.uk/services/national-data-opt-out and I would recommend any sane person to do this. (Actually, insane people might have even more reason to do so, thinking about it.)

The problem with all these opt-outs, rather than opt-ins, is you keep having to go back to your GP every time you hear of another scheme or other. It's hard to keep up. In the last 5 years I've already been twice to opt out of NHS data sharing initiatives, now it looks like I'll have to go yet again. I resent my data (anonymised or otherwise) being flogged off without my express consent. I also resent having to stop it happening every year or so. There's probably more NHS data things I should be opting out of, but don't find out about them until my data is already in Amazon's possession.
Hi iibyw, as I've posted a few times on here, I've experienced my health challenges (as many others have). I'd love the NHS to make use of my data - and anyone else who signs up - to use it to find cures for others who are around after me. Yes, maybe my descendants will benefit, maybe it will also benefit people I don't know. I'm not bothered whether the people who benefit are those that live in the UK - and directly enjoy the benefits of the NHS, or they live in other countries. It maybe one of the things that we can safely share - and do it more immediately than donating our bodies for transplants and medical research.

I'd love it if NHS knew how to handle patient data. I'm trying to get online now to order repeat prescription - it isn't working again. A couple of years back I had some medical procedures that involved two separate hospitals - their IT systems didn't connect my patient records between the two hospitals - or with the GPs records.

If Amazon (or any other "smart" IT firm) can help them sort some of this out, we will all benefit.

EDIT: Repeat prescription request still doesn't work - it's been like this for the past 6 months!

The "work around" is to sign in to another service and answer "no" I'm not registered for repeat prescriptions. And, if that doesn't work, I'll call in at the surgery - where they will first of all tell me I should be using their on-line service....
Last edited by Paul Waine on Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:51 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:09 pm
More on this: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/1 ... d.html?m=1
This link is totally unreliable by the looks of it. The Amazon story is clearly not about personal data. It's about using general information about health conditions. Let's see what comes out over the coming days but I suspect it will be about sharing publically available information on the NHS Choices website which is often shared with other bodies through 'syndication'. And the reason for this will be to try improve people's ability to self-care.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:51 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:18 pm
Possibly if whoever agrees to the idea & willingly goes ahead selling the information includes some sort of condition that a percentage goes towards the NHS. The important part I think you are missing crucially that this could further medical research & potentially serve to treat people more effectively & minimise patients distress ect.
Would that work in the same way they pay a percentage of their profits in tax? I.E. we’d be royally ripped off. Not sure why the U.K. government is entertaining Amazon, plenty of other big IT companies are looking at this sort of stuff.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:54 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:51 pm
Would that work in the same way they pay a percentage of their profits in tax? I.E. we’d be royally ripped off. Not sure why the U.K. government is entertaining Amazon, plenty of other big IT companies are looking at this sort of stuff.
Because Amazon Alexa can help people manage their support needs and conditions.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:02 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:18 pm
Possibly if whoever agrees to the idea & willingly goes ahead selling the information includes some sort of condition that a percentage goes towards the NHS. The important part I think you are missing crucially that this could further medical research & potentially serve to treat people more effectively & minimise patients distress ect.
I suppose if you thought this was all the data was being used for, you wouldn't mind.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:05 am

taio wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:54 pm
Because Amazon Alexa can help people manage their support needs and conditions.
That ‘may’ well be, but why should they get NHS data for free to do that? What is the NHS or wider government getting back in return?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:06 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:46 pm
Hi iibyw, as I've posted a few times on here, I've experienced my health challenges (as many others have). I'd love the NHS to make use of my data - and anyone else who signs up - to use it to find cures for others who are around after me. Yes, maybe my descendants will benefit, maybe it will also benefit people I don't know. I'm not bothered whether the people who benefit are those that live in the UK - and directly enjoy the benefits of the NHS, or they live in other countries. It maybe one of the things that we can safely share - and do it more immediately than donating our bodies for transplants and medical research.

I'd love it if NHS knew how to handle patient data. I'm trying to get online now to order repeat prescription - it isn't working again. A couple of years back I had some medical procedures that involved two separate hospitals - their IT systems didn't connect my patient records between the two hospitals - or with the GPs records.

If Amazon (or any other "smart" IT firm) can help them sort some of this out, we will all benefit.
That's a bit of a red herring. The problems you've encountered are to do with poorly functioning IT systems. Nobody in their right mind would argue that the govt shouldn't hire specialists in their field to design and implement IT systems, but there's a big leap from subcontracting to giving private firms patient data as was mooted in the article DA linked. If, for instance, NHS records are stored on Amazon's cloud servers - not exactly unfeasible - the function of NHS is tethered to the function and fortunes of Amazon, to say nothing of the fact the data itself will be used commercially. It'd be better, safer, more secure if patient records were held by the NHS. When people's lives are on the line (literally, it's a health service!) I'd rather the govt be a little more cautious and little less cavalier with their free-market ideology.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:08 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:05 am
That ‘may’ well be, but why should they get NHS data for free to do that? What is the NHS or wider government getting back in return?
To ease pressures on the NHS using information that is already publically available through NHS Choices I suspect.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:13 am

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:08 am
To ease pressures on the NHS using information that is already publically available through NHS Choices I suspect.
I'd love to see that contract with my own eyes, but from what's being reported it appears to give more access than just the website data you and I can access. Do you not think it odd that the govt has effectively negotiated a gag order on itself? Our own sovereign govt is not allowed to make a press release on the subject.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:13 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:46 pm
If Amazon (or any other "smart" IT firm) can help them sort some of this out, we will all benefit.
The last time a ‘smart’ IT firm tried to sort this out it was abandoned costing the tax payer billions of pounds.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:15 am

Spiral wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:34 pm
At the risk of two separate but slightly connected stories being conflated, todays story in the times is that the database has been given to Amazon for free. The NHS and your GP won't see a single damn penny from that deal.
Hi Spiral, I've read the story in S.Times. I've no idea what is going on, but there was nothing in the Times that suggests anyone else knows what's going on either. There's very little in the Times article. Nothing that gives credence to the headline:

Amazon ready to cash in on free access to NHS data

The final paragraph of the article is interesting, but only to the extent that the need for the parties to agree before one of them issue press release etc - this is standard term of almost every contract I've seen over 40+ years in business.

Eva Blum-Dumontet, of Privacy International, which obtained the contract, said “it was problematic” that Amazon could profit from products it made “using and exploiting” the NHS data. She also said it was “very worrying” that Amazon “gets to control how publicity is worded”. The contract states the government “may not issue a press release or any other publicity in connection with or related to this agreement or Amazon’s use of licensor content without prior written consent”.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:17 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:13 am
The last time a ‘smart’ IT firm tried to sort this out it was abandoned costing the tax payer billions of pounds.
I think that more than 10 years ago. Figure was about £10 billion.

Does it fill you with confidence about government IT plans?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:18 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:46 pm
Hi iibyw, as I've posted a few times on here, I've experienced my health challenges (as many others have). I'd love the NHS to make use of my data - and anyone else who signs up - to use it to find cures for others who are around after me. Yes, maybe my descendants will benefit, maybe it will also benefit people I don't know. I'm not bothered whether the people who benefit are those that live in the UK - and directly enjoy the benefits of the NHS, or they live in other countries. It maybe one of the things that we can safely share - and do it more immediately than donating our bodies for transplants and medical research.

I'd love it if NHS knew how to handle patient data. I'm trying to get online now to order repeat prescription - it isn't working again. A couple of years back I had some medical procedures that involved two separate hospitals - their IT systems didn't connect my patient records between the two hospitals - or with the GPs records.

If Amazon (or any other "smart" IT firm) can help them sort some of this out, we will all benefit.

EDIT: Repeat prescription request still doesn't work - it's been like this for the past 6 months!

The "work around" is to sign in to another service and answer "no" I'm not registered for repeat prescriptions. And, if that doesn't work, I'll call in at the surgery - where they will first of all tell me I should be using their on-line service....
My main objection is the consent process. You always have to opt out of these things (that's assuming you know what 'things' you're even looking for). Personal data shouldn't be like this, just as any other personal possession shouldn't be (I don't have to opt out of a house sharing scheme). If I am asked, I would want to be presented with an explanation, and assurances, that sort of thing, and perhaps I would agree to it, perhaps not. When I am not asked, I haven't a clue what's happening, or why, so I just opt out. When GPs are asked what they opt out of, huge numbers, far more than the average in the population, opt out of these things.

Same principle with donor cards. Always had one. But now they're to become opt out rather than opt in, I will opt out. You simply can't have my organs unless you ask my permission first.

There was a time, very recently, when the average human was treated with a degree of respect and reverence. This appears to be disintegrating, and I don't like it.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:18 am

Should have qualified my last comment about press releases. As you say Paul Waine, "without prior written consent".

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 am

Spiral wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:13 am
I'd love to see that contract with my own eyes, but from what's being reported it appears to give more access than just the website data you and I can access. Do you not think it odd that the govt has effectively negotiated a gag order on itself? Our own sovereign govt is not allowed to make a press release on the subject.
We'll have to wait to see what else is reported.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs- ... on-s-alexa

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 am

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:08 am
To ease pressures on the NHS using information that is already publically available through NHS Choices I suspect.
Hang on, by your own admission this data was likely anonymised patient data, is that available on NHS Choices? It’ll be a ‘big data’ AI type initiative I suspect, certainly something can make money out of. Just putting NHS Choices data on Alexa may be a decent idea, but it’s hardly likely to reduce pressure if the data is already publicly available on a website. Why would the people who want that information be any more likely to ‘ask Alexa’ than look for it on Google?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:22 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:17 am
I think that more than 10 years ago. Figure was about £10 billion.

Does it fill you with confidence about government IT plans?
The government managed the contract, it was the private sector developing.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:24 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 am
Hang on, by your own admission this data was likely anonymised patient data, is that available on NHS Choices? It’ll be a ‘big data’ AI type initiative I suspect, certainly something can make money out of. Just putting NHS Choices data on Alexa may be a decent idea, but it’s hardly likely to reduce pressure if the data is already publicly available on a website. Why would the people who want that information be any more likely to ‘ask Alexa’ than look for it on Google?
The anonymisation of patient data was a separate discussion.

https://news.sky.com/story/alexa-how-do ... p-11760048

Blind person used as an example in this article.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by If it be your will » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:25 am

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:09 pm
More on this: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/1 ... d.html?m=1
Hmm. I don't know if the press will run with this, but it's just the sort of thing that might turn a Tory majority into a hung parliament. People can get a bit tetchy when personal health data is involved.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:26 am

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:24 am
The anonymisation of patient data was a separate discussion.

https://news.sky.com/story/alexa-how-do ... p-11760048

Blind person used as an example in this article.
Anonymised data was THE discussion. It’s you that side tracked it to Alexa. No one will have a problem with Alexa using data already on a website. And how much do we think blind people using Alexa will save the NHS exactly?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:28 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:26 am
Anonymised data was THE discussion. It’s you that side tracked it to Alexa. No one will have a problem with Alexa using data already on a website. And how much do we think blind people using Alexa will save the NHS exactly?
No it wasn't. That followed the discussion about Amazon.

Another example of how it can make a difference to people's lives:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... s-councils

Blind person was an example in the link. One example. It's not hard to imagine how it could help a vast number of people with different conditions and ailments.
Last edited by taio on Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:30 am

To be fair, martin, both Amazon echo and the separate issue of patient data have been brought up. In ways the two things are somewhat related because they both fall under the umbrella of data harvesting.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:33 am

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:28 am
No it wasn't. That followed the discussion about Amazon.

Another example of how it can make a difference to people's lives:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... s-councils
What has any of this got to do with the government gifting anonymised health data to Amazon?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:34 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:33 am
What has any of this got to do with the government gifting anonymised health data to Amazon?
The original discussion wasn't about anonymised data. See Spiral's post a post or two up.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by martin_p » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:35 am

Spiral wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:30 am
To be fair, martin, both Amazon echo and the separate issue of patient data have been brought up. In ways the two things are somewhat related because they both fall under the umbrella of data harvesting.
The big data gift to Amazon is more likely for data mining.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:26 am
Anonymised data was THE discussion. It’s you that side tracked it to Alexa. No one will have a problem with Alexa using data already on a website. And how much do we think blind people using Alexa will save the NHS exactly?
So are you now happy it wasn't me that side tracked it to Alexa?

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Spiral » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:42 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:35 am
The big data gift to Amazon is more likely for data mining.
The deal that has been struck doesn't include patient data, anonymised or otherwise. It's what it probably best described as a portion of the NHS' intellectual property that has been gifted to Amazon. It appears to be exclusive, which is shady as fcuk considering they didn't pay a penny for it. If it is indeed exclusive database access, it gives Amazon a competitive advantage. That's what corruption looks like. I can sure as hell guarantee that it isn't benevolence that's driving Amazon's decision to go into 'partnership' with the NHS.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by taio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 am

Spiral wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:42 am
The deal that has been struck doesn't include patient data, anonymised or otherwise. It's what it probably best described as a portion of the NHS' intellectual property that has been gifted to Amazon. It appears to be exclusive, which is shady as fcuk considering they didn't pay a penny for it. If it is indeed exclusive database access, it gives Amazon a competitive advantage. That's what corruption looks like. I can sure as hell guarantee that it isn't benevolence that's driving Amazon's decision to go into 'partnership' with the NHS.
Very good points re IP and potential exclusive commercial advantages.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:49 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:13 am
The last time a ‘smart’ IT firm tried to sort this out it was abandoned costing the tax payer billions of pounds.
Even more reason to try again, before something succeeds it’s not unusual for something to fail repeatedly the key is to identify why it’s failing & rectify this, it’ll succeed eventually but before this happens it’s inevitable problems will arise, it’s extremely rare & often determined by luck than considerate implementation for things to succeed straightaway not with something of this magnitude.

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Re: General Election Is On

Post by claretandy » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:54 am

Me: The Tories are leading in the polls....
Corbynista: I'll wait for survation thanks.

Oh......
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Re: General Election Is On

Post by Inchy » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:02 am

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.york ... 4909%3famp


This was in my trust. If you wonder why I can’t vote Tory it’s because I witness things like this all the time
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