General Election Is On

[jrgbfc]

I find the tactics of all sides disgusting re the NHS, though the hard left mob in particular have no place anywhere near a hospital.

The problem I have with politicising this kid is that Labour and the papers can say what they want with the permission of the mother, whereas the hospital and the government cannot say anything for GDPR reasons - they will know everything, to the minute, every interaction he has had, but cannot say it. It therefore cannot be a balanced story (e.g. if it turns out he was stable, in a chair but wanted to go to sleep lying down, it becomes a different, while still not pleasant, story).

Tories complaining about media bias

[Dy1geo]

How a U.K. government distributes the income it receives is purely down to its political choices so therefore the NHS will always be a political issue.

Whilst Johnson will claim that this year a record level of investment is going into the NHS it is still lower as a % to GDP than it was in 2010. My concern is with the economy if we got a Corbyn/Sturgeon coalition and the planned rise in expenditure could lead to financial issues in 3-5 years with a large deficit and higher borrowing which could lead to less money going into Health spending

[fatboy47]

I'd just like to say a quick and sincere thankyou to Ringo, bfcboyo and all the others voting Tory on thursday.

I dont work now..havent really done much since I was 49.. just a few bits that have interested me. I've retired to my comfy house overlooking a lovely unspoilt stretch of island coastline.

I earned my pile by playing around with equities in the early 2000s (electroncally..exploiting margnal price shifts) and renting out a string of very basic properties to those desperate enough to need one...housing benefits were far more generous then. ..

I live a fairly plush and happy life even though my contribution to society snce the early 90s has probably been no bigger than Jacob RMs .
I'll vote Labour....I still have a spark of decency...and my brain is still functional enough to see through the red tops....but again I really appreciate how the cloth cap crew worry about my wellbeing.

Thanks agan.

[Bfcboyo]

I'd just like to say a quick and sincere thankyou to Ringo, bfcboyo and all the others voting Tory on thursday.

I dont work now..havent really done much since I was 49.. just a few bits that have interested me. I've retired to my comfy house overlooking a lovely unspoilt stretch of island coastline.

I earned my pile by playing around with equities in the early 2000s (electroncally..exploiting margnal price shifts) and renting out a string of very basic properties to those desperate enough to need one...housing benefits were far more generous then. ..

I live a fairly plush and happy life even though my contribution to society snce the early 90s has probably been no bigger than Jacob RMs .
I'll vote Labour....I still have a spark of decency...and my brain is still functional enough to see through the red tops....but again I really appreciate how the cloth cap crew worry about my wellbeing.

Thanks agan.

Good for you old boy. Take it easy on the meat and red wine as your in the highest percentile for heart problems due to your age gender and lifestyle.

I tip my cloth cap and say good day sir.

[Bfcboyo]

I run my own business, work seven days a week and I will be voting Labour on Thursday, not because I’m a fan of Corbyn, but because giving the conservatives another four years with Johnson at the helm is a very frightening prospect.

If you were a labour supporter, you wouldn’t be comfortable voting for the conservatives with Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg running the country. We’d be back to children working in the mills and no workers rights if they had their way.

Depending on what type of business you have this may be absolute blind foolishness or a good choice for yourself . Only one party will help mine .

[Cryssys]

Nobody with a work ethic can vote Corbyn.

From a life long labour man proud to be voting Conservative over Corbyn this Thursday.

It's like saying that I don't like the way Burnley play football so I'm going to support Rovers. I can sort of sympathise with you not voting labour so don't vote, just as you might not go on the Turf. Whatever you do don't go to Ewood and actively support the b*stards.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I run my own business, work seven days a week and I will be voting Labour on Thursday, not because I’m a fan of Corbyn, but because giving the conservatives another four years with Johnson at the helm is a very frightening prospect.

If you were a labour supporter, you wouldn’t be comfortable voting for the conservatives with Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg running the country. We’d be back to children working in the mills and no workers rights if they had their way.

I have complete respect for anyone choosing to vote the way they desire, that’s democracy.

I know lots of business owners though (companies, not self employed) who were unaware of Labour’s dividend tax rises. The attached tweet explains it in a picture. Even in a hung parliament this could be introduced as part of a coalition deal so small business owners (and their employees, who will become vulnerable) should be aware of it before they vote. A 40%+ tax rise is a big thing.

https://twitter.com/capx/status/1203940089992269826

[CrosspoolClarets]

Tories complaining about media bias

I’m not a Tory (choosing to vote for them tactically on this occasion) but if the left complain about bias they should watch out for the BBC reforms Boris mooted yesterday - if them and Channel 4 lose their public service tag the reporting will be more controlled by Murdoch types, not less.

I have long since thought that the reporting of some (not all) programs like Today, Channel 4 News etc was inviting trouble.

[RMutt]

Nobody with a work ethic can vote Corbyn.

From a life long labour man proud to be voting Conservative over Corbyn this Thursday.

How can anybody who has been a life long Labour supporter come across as such a right wing reactionary Tory on almost every thread to which you contribute?

[Erasmus]

Crosspools, I can to some extent understand your misgivings about Labour's spending plans to be funded by taxation. But what then would be the solution you propose from the Conservative side to the chronic problems in education, healthcare, poverty and destitution, lack of social care for the elderly and many other issues.

It must be apparent that there are dreadful problems in all areas of public services. Labour proposes to address these problems through increased taxation. What is the Conservative plan to deal with these problems? Six weeks wait for Universal Credit is absolutely awful and undoubtedly leads to poverty, destitution and dependence on food banks. Are the Conservatives going to change? If not, why vote for them?

[RMutt]

Crosspools, I can to some extent understand your misgivings about Labour's spending plans to be funded by taxation. But what then would be the solution you propose from the Conservative side to the chronic problems in education, healthcare, poverty and destitution, lack of social care for the elderly and many other issues.

It must be apparent that there are dreadful problems in all areas of public services. Labour proposes to address these problems through increased taxation. What is the Conservative plan to deal with these problems? Six weeks wait for Universal Credit is absolutely awful and undoubtedly leads to poverty, destitution and dependence on food banks. Are the Conservatives going to change? If not, why vote for them?

One of the wealthiest nations in the world? It doesn’t feel it. Not enough crumbs are falling from the table. I just want us to push a few more off.

[LoveCurryPies]

Stanley Johnson must really be questioning if the million pounds he spent educating Boris was a case of "You can't polish a t***".

[Heathclaret]

I have complete respect for anyone choosing to vote the way they desire, that’s democracy.

I know lots of business owners though (companies, not self employed) who were unaware of Labour’s dividend tax rises. The attached tweet explains it in a picture. Even in a hung parliament this could be introduced as part of a coalition deal so small business owners (and their employees, who will become vulnerable) should be aware of it before they vote. A 40%+ tax rise is a big thing.

https://twitter.com/capx/status/1203940089992269826

If this is true, as long as the money gets used for the benefit of the country, NHS, Transport, education etc, it’s a pill I’m willing to swallow. It they don’t stick to their manifesto, I have another chance to change the situation in four years.

The money for investment has to come from somewhere.

[martin_p]

I’m not a Tory (choosing to vote for them tactically on this occasion) but if the left complain about bias they should watch out for the BBC reforms Boris mooted yesterday - if them and Channel 4 lose their public service tag the reporting will be more controlled by Murdoch types, not less.

I have long since thought that the reporting of some (not all) programs like Today, Channel 4 News etc was inviting trouble.

This is how bad things have become in this country. Any media not exhibiting the right wing bias of 90% of our press is seen as being left wing when it is in fact neutral. Ok, I get that when you’re stood so far on the right that pretty much everything else is to the left of you, but that doesn’t make them left wing or equate to left wing bias.

[android]

I'd just like to say a quick and sincere thankyou to Ringo, bfcboyo and all the others voting Tory on thursday.

I dont work now..havent really done much since I was 49.. just a few bits that have interested me. I've retired to my comfy house overlooking a lovely unspoilt stretch of island coastline.

I earned my pile by playing around with equities in the early 2000s (electroncally..exploiting margnal price shifts) and renting out a string of very basic properties to those desperate enough to need one...housing benefits were far more generous then. ..

I live a fairly plush and happy life even though my contribution to society snce the early 90s has probably been no bigger than Jacob RMs .
I'll vote Labour....I still have a spark of decency...and my brain is still functional enough to see through the red tops....but again I really appreciate how the cloth cap crew worry about my wellbeing.

Thanks agan.

"spark of decency"

One of the reasons I will be voting Conservative is that I expect (as near to certain as I can be about anything in the future) Corbyn/Mcdonnell to bring high inflation, high unemployment and all the associated devastating economic consequences. I see them inflaming hatred especially of the religious and class kind, which I find appalling. You have a different view but I don't regard you as morally inferior or superior.

I'm sure Corbyn shares your sense of moral superiority and it's one reason why he can't see the wood from the trees on things like antisemitism.

[martin_p]

"spark of decency"

One of the reasons I will be voting Conservative is that I expect (as near to certain as I can be about anything in the future) Corbyn/Mcdonnell to bring high inflation, high unemployment and all the associated devastating economic consequences. I see them inflaming hatred especially of the religious and class kind, which I find appalling. You have a different view but I don't regard you as morally inferior or superior.

I'm sure Corbyn shares your sense of moral superiority and it's one reason why he can't see the wood from the trees on things like antisemitism.

Come on then, show us how you’ve reached your economic conclusion.

Oh, and we don’t have to speculate about a Tory government inflaming hatred, the hate crime statistics of the last few years are there for all to see.

[Bfcboyo]

How can anybody who has been a life long Labour supporter come across as such a right wing reactionary Tory on almost every thread to which you contribute?

I think you will find I am not alone and this you should be worried about. I'd say a life long labour voter not supporter.

Corbyn 75 % manifesto 24 %

1% still labour and may return .

[Caballo]

renting out a string of very basic properties to those desperate enough to need one...housing benefits were far more generous then. ..

I still have a spark of decency

You're probably on a fishing trip, and I've probably taken your bait, but, if it's not and I haven't, I'd suggest that exploiting both people and the welfare state doesn't sound like a terribly 'decent' thing to do to me.

[aggi]

Indeed, I agree.

But was it true about this kid?

No mileage for the Tories in coming out and denying it but I am led to believe there is more to this than meets the eye. I’ll leave that one there I think, I have no interest in posting accusations, just keep an open mind. There is some dodgy stuff going on currently, I saw a faked NHS letter today purporting to be an official one. Wait for tomorrow’s Mirror front page, we’ll see another sick child.

It turns out a lot of people were friends with a nurse who knew exactly what happened. I assume they must have gone to the same school which was very strict as their writing style didn't change much:

[aggi]

...
Very clever politics, but more importantly, a popular intent to scrap an incredibly regressive tax, and one in the solar plexus for the BBC who the Tories think have been biased against them for years.

One thing about Johnson (and Cummings). They are a bit insecure, hold grudges and you have to be brave to cross them. The BBC (and Channel 4) have. So have the Lords. So did the 21 Tory MPs. So did the Speaker (who traditionally moves to the Lords). So did Ireland (before doing an about turn). Let’s wait and see how many of that list are unaffected in 5 years - I suspect they will be targeted for punishment out of vengeance (no, that isn’t a great leadership quality, but neither is being a UK hating antisemite and they are the two options).

You've gone on full-on Lowbank here. I'll ask you the same question I've asked other hyperbolic loons (maybe I'll finally get an answer this time), what evidence is there that Corbyn hates the UK? Specific examples?

[martin_p]

It turns out a lot of people were friends with a nurse who knew exactly what happened. I assume they must have gone to the same school which was very strict as their writing style didn't change much:

This guy also has a friend with a box at Everton that knows Dyche is definitely going to be their next manager.

[Mala591]

'Get Brexit done' involves getting 'phase 1' done (leaving the EU). Then getting 'phase 2' done (the trade agreement with the EU).

Phase 1 can be done by 31st January next year and phase 2 might take a couple of years of intense negotiation.

We need to move forward with the Brexit process or cancel it altogether.

[martin_p]

'Get Brexit done' involves getting 'phase 1' done (leaving the EU). Then getting 'phase 2' done (the trade agreement with the EU).

Phase 1 can be done by 31st January next year and phase 2 might take a couple of years of intense negotiation.

We need to move forward with the Brexit process or cancel it altogether.

But the Tories are telling us Phase 2 can be done in less than 12 months and are refusing to consider an extension to the transition period if it can’t. Given those who know about these things consider it near impossible to sort a trade deal in less than a year then we’re heading for WTO terms on 1st January 2021.

[android]

Come on then, show us how you’ve reached your economic conclusion.

Oh, and we don’t have to speculate about a Tory government inflaming hatred, the hate crime statistics of the last few years are there for all to see.

It would be a waste of time Martin. I spent a long time presenting evidence of Corbyn's antisemitism problem and not a single Corbyn supporter was interested - all I got was the usual guff trying to blame the Daily Mail or Rupert Murdoch (yawn). And, by way of example, it's revealing that your second line apparently absolves Corbyn of any involvement in what you say has been an increase in hate crimes in recent years.

You could think about what would happen to the currency (import prices), interest rates (Andrew JB thinks that Mcdonnell can borrow these vast sums at whatever interest rate he likes (zero perhaps!) but the real world isn't like that, wage demands, flight of capital and so on but you will have a different view.

But my point was that my views on the consequences of a Corbyn/Mcdonnell government are genuine. Given that, do you agree with fatboy that I am lacking decency in voting Conservative?

[TheFamilyCat]

It turns out a lot of people were friends with a nurse who knew exactly what happened. I assume they must have gone to the same school which was very strict as their writing style didn't change much:

Not quite sure what is going on there but I know one of the Twitter users on that screenshot, not very well mind but well enough to know that I am pretty sure he would not post that.

[Mala591]

But the Tories are telling us Phase 2 can be done in less than 12 months and are refusing to consider an extension to the transition period if it can’t. Given those who know about these things consider it near impossible to sort a trade deal in less than a year then we’re heading for WTO terms on 1st January 2021.

If the trade negotiations progress 'reasonably well' in the first year then imo the negotiating period will be 'mutually extended' until they are complete.

[tiger76]

I think you will find I am not alone and this you should be worried about. I'd say a life long labour voter not supporter.

Corbyn 75 % manifesto 24 %

1% still labour and may return .

It seems Jonathan Ashworth agrees with your low opinion of Corbyn,if his own Shadow health secretary doesn't have faith in him,why on earth should the country.

So that story we mentioned... Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth has defended a leaked recording - in which he apparently said Jeremy Corbyn becoming prime minister was "not going to happen" - as "banter" with a friend.

In the recording, published by political website Guido Fawkes, Mr Ashworth reportedly says Labour's election prospects nationally are "dire" because of "a combination of Corbyn and Brexit".

Mr Ashworth was appearing on the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme to talk about the NHS but was confronted with the story.

He says he made the comments to someone he thought was a friend, whom he describes as a Tory activist.

He says he was not being serious but "joshing" with the friend after he suggested the Tories' lead was narrowing.

“Of course I said it, but I’m winding him up," he tells the programme.

A bit more on that leaked recording. In it, John Ashworth, Labour frontbencher, is asked by a friend whether “it would be as bad as I suspect” if Jeremy Corbyn got into power.

Mr Ashworth appears to reply: "I don’t know, on the security stuff, I worked in No 10, I think the machine will pretty quickly move to safeguard security (I mean the civil service machine). But it’s not going to happen! I can’t see it happening!”

Asked by the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire whether he believes Mr Corbyn is a threat to national security, Mr Ashworth replies: “No of course I don’t,” repeating his claim that he was only joking with a friend.

Our assistant political editor Norman Smith suggests the leak could have an impact on the campaign...

He is correct on one point Corbyn won't be PM come friday.

[martin_p]

And, by way of example, it's revealing that your second line apparently absolves Corbyn of any involvement in what you say has been an increase in hate crimes in recent years.

You’re in full denial mode here. It isn’t me that’s saying that hate crimes have gone up, it’s government statistics.

I haven’t absolved Corbyn of anything, but you can’t have it both ways. You’re either laying the blame at the door of the government, as you implied by saying there’d be an increase in hatefulness if Corbyn got in, or you’re not, in which case it’s Corbyn being a party leader rather than a PM.

But the stats show that hate crime, especially against Muslims, has rocketed since the referendum, so if it’s an increase in hatefulness that’s worrying you you shouldn’t be voting Tory.

[martin_p]

If the trade negotiations progress 'reasonably well' in the first year then imo the negotiating period will be 'mutually extended' until they are complete.

So you think Johnson is lying then?

[dsr]

You’re in full denial mode here. It isn’t me that’s saying that hate crimes have gone up, it’s government statistics.

I haven’t absolved Corbyn of anything, but you can’t have it both ways. You’re either laying the blame at the door of the government, as you implied by saying there’d be an increase in hatefulness if Corbyn got in, or you’re not, in which case it’s Corbyn being a party leader rather than a PM.

But the stats show that hate crime, especially against Muslims, has rocketed since the referendum, so if it’s an increase in hatefulness that’s worrying you you shouldn’t be voting Tory.

There was no hate crime at all under Labour. The first hate crime wasn't recorded until 2011.

Interestingly, the man who killed all those children in Manchester in 2017 wasn't guilty of a hate crime. It was just a normal run of the mill crime.

[martin_p]

There was no hate crime at all under Labour. The first hate crime wasn't recorded until 2011.

Interestingly, the man who killed all those children in Manchester in 2017 wasn't guilty of a hate crime. It was just a normal run of the mill crime.

Nice stat, but utterly meaningless with respect to the point I was making.

[Erasmus]

Android, I can well understand your fears of the consequences of a Labour government, but I will ask you as I have asked others: What are the Conservative Party's proposed solutions to the terrible problems of underfunding of social care, health, and education as well as the alleviation of poverty and destitution? What are the Conservatives going to do to get rid of the intolerable sight of people having to rely on food banks to get enough to eat? Do you believe the Conservatives will put an end to all this?

[android]

You’re in full denial mode here. It isn’t me that’s saying that hate crimes have gone up, it’s government statistics.

I haven’t absolved Corbyn of anything, but you can’t have it both ways. You’re either laying the blame at the door of the government, as you implied by saying there’d be an increase in hatefulness if Corbyn got in, or you’re not, in which case it’s Corbyn being a party leader rather than a PM.

But the stats show that hate crime, especially against Muslims, has rocketed since the referendum, so if it’s an increase in hatefulness that’s worrying you you shouldn’t be voting Tory.

I am not in denial about it at all. I was only quoting back to you a statement you had made about hate crimes - I am not familiar with the statistics myself. It's true that I would have a very low level of confidence in these statistics, as I understand that anything can be deemed a hate crime. But I am not suggesting that there has not been an increase in hate, which may well be true. Why can't I have it both (and more) ways? You seem to think that an increase in hate is entirely down to the government and I think there would be a lot of factors, one of which is Corbyn's tolerance of antisemitism and what I see as his promotion of an us and them view on antisemitism v Islamophobia. Your view seems very simplistic to me but I don't regard you as morally or intellectually inferior.

One of the things I find hardest to forgive about Corbyn is not just his failure to tackle antisemitism, but the change in tack a year or so ago. In my view, the Labour party all but threw in the towel on tackling the problem and instead decided the only form of defence was to play the what about card - unnecessarily stoking division and hatred.

You have no obligation to answer my question but I will have another go. Do you think I am morally inferior to you and fatboy for holding different opinions to you and therefore voting Conservative?

[Inchy]

0C974068-A16E-4661-A3DE-E1D79E9A89CD.png (878.56 KiB) Viewed 2319 times

[Damo]

Not sure how many Burnley fans would support them in league 2 if it meant their kids being saddled with frightening amounts of debt, and having to live off turnips for the rest of their lives.

Labour isn't a football team.
It's a batsh*t mental political party, that needs a clear out from top to bottom

[martin_p]

I am not in denial about it at all. I was only quoting back to you a statement you had made about hate crimes - I am not familiar with the statistics myself. It's true that I would have a very low level of confidence in these statistics, as I understand that anything can be deemed a hate crime. But I am not suggesting that there has not been an increase in hate, which may well be true. Why can't I have it both (and more) ways? You seem to think that an increase in hate is entirely down to the government and I think there would be a lot of factors, one of which is Corbyn's tolerance of antisemitism and what I see as his promotion of an us and them view on antisemitism v Islamophobia. Your view seems very simplistic to me but I don't regard you as morally or intellectually inferior.

One of the things I find hardest to forgive about Corbyn is not just his failure to tackle antisemitism, but the change in tack a year or so ago. In my view, the Labour party all but threw in the towel on tackling the problem and instead decided the only form of defence was to play the what about card - unnecessarily stoking division and hatred.

You have no obligation to answer my question but I will have another go. Do you think I am morally inferior to you and fatboy for holding different opinions to you and therefore voting Conservative?

I’m not answering that question as it’s not my argument. I’m accusing you of hypocrisy if a major reason for not voting Labour is an increase in hatefulness but you’re voting for the Tories under whom hatefulness continues to increase.

[dsr]

Android, I can well understand your fears of the consequences of a Labour government, but I will ask you as I have asked others: What are the Conservative Party's proposed solutions to the terrible problems of underfunding of social care, health, and education as well as the alleviation of poverty and destitution? What are the Conservatives going to do to get rid of the intolerable sight of people having to rely on food banks to get enough to eat? Do you believe the Conservatives will put an end to all this?

I'm by no means convinced there is a terrible underfunding of education, at least. How many full time teachers or classroom assistants do they have now? The number is going up and up. A junior school with 8 classes of 30 would have been run by 9 full time educators, 40 years ago. Now it would be a surprise to have less than 16. How many teachers and classroom assistants is the "right" number - can that "right" number ever be reached?

[tiger76]

Not sure how many Burnley fans would support them in league 2 if it meant their kids being saddled with frightening amounts of debt, and having to live off turnips for the rest of their lives.

Labour isn't a football team.
It's a batsh*t mental political party, that needs a clear out from top to bottom

No Labour isn't a football team,but when results are bad,usually the manager takes the blame,and it appears the results on Friday are going to be poor.

The problem for both main parties is they've been hijacked by extremists,Momentum in Labour's case,and the rabid brexit element in the Conservatives case.

[martin_p]

Not sure how many Burnley fans would support them in league 2 if it meant their kids being saddled with frightening amounts of debt, and having to live off turnips for the rest of their lives.

Labour isn't a football team.
It's a batsh*t mental political party, that needs a clear out from top to bottom

We’re already saddled with huge amounts of debt, £1.8 trillion at the last count. Labours spending plans would increase that debt but by a small percentage point amount. It’d be like you and me worrying about increasing a debt from £1,000 to maybe £1,002 or £1,003. If it was going to make your life a lot better you wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

[dsr]

No Labour isn't a football team,but when results are bad,usually the manager takes the blame,and it appears the results on Friday are going to be poor.

The problem for both main parties is they've been hijacked by extremists,Momentum in Labour's case,and the rabid brexit element in the Conservatives case.

Brexiters aren't extremists. Brexit is mainstream. It had majority support at the referendum.

I know that many people like to believe that living in a European super-state is the only rational way to exist - it isn't true. An independent UK is a perfectly reasonable idea. Obviously not one you agree with, but nonetheless, reasonable.

If you think Brexiters are extremists, then please don't let the Scottish Nationalists into a power sharing agreement!!!

[Dy1geo]

We’re already saddled with huge amounts of debt, £1.8 trillion at the last count. Labours spending plans would increase that debt but by a small percentage point amount. It’d be like you and me worrying about increasing a debt from £1,000 to maybe £1,002 or £1,003. If it was going to make your life a lot better you wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

We can disagree over the cause of the 2008-10 downturn, but faced with a £150+ bn deficit in 2010 what would Labour have done if they won, cuts (austerity) or tax rises or more borrowing

[Damo]

We’re already saddled with huge amounts of debt, £1.8 trillion at the last count. Labours spending plans would increase that debt but by a small percentage point amount. It’d be like you and me worrying about increasing a debt from £1,000 to maybe £1,002 or £1,003. If it was going to make your life a lot better you wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

According to their costings.
Which dont take into account all of the businesses that go to the wall, or leave these shores when faced with a rise in corporation tax, and wages.
Also, when McDonnell has finished rounding up and shooting the billionaire's, then the millionaires, then anyone in the black financially, there will be noone left to pay for his hair brained schemes

[dsr]

We’re already saddled with huge amounts of debt, £1.8 trillion at the last count. Labours spending plans would increase that debt but by a small percentage point amount. It’d be like you and me worrying about increasing a debt from £1,000 to maybe £1,002 or £1,003. If it was going to make your life a lot better you wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

If you take 0.3% of £1.8 trillion, you get £5.4 billion. That won't cover the manifesto pledges or the manifold non-manifesto pledges since.

[Erasmus]

Dsr, my youngest son's school now closes on Friday afternoons to save money. An elder son is at secondary school and I was told I should buy text books and revision materials for him because the school couldn't afford it.

Education is suffering due to the cuts in funding, but the main objection I have to Conservative government is the manner in which they have driven so many people into poverty and destitution. And then when one of them said, 'There are many reasons why people use food banks' it was just sickening the way he tried to pretend it wasn't an issue. The reality is that 94% of those who use food banks do so because of 'destitution.' It's not acceptable.

[martin_p]

If you take 0.3% of £1.8 trillion, you get £5.4 billion. That won't cover the manifesto pledges or the manifold non-manifesto pledges since.

Correct, I’d meant to write £1,030, but the figures are to make a point. And let’s not assume that all Labours pledges will need borrowing. But my point was that this isn’t ‘a massive increase in borrowing’, it’s probably single digit

[Mala591]

'Labour will negotiate a 'good' Brexit deal'

= inside the EU customs union
= closely aligned to the single market
= freedom of movement to continue
= still having to pay into the EU

So it isn't a 'good' Brexit deal it is basically remain. Is this Labour 'misleading' the electorate or is it just a lie?

[martin_p]

'Labour will negotiate a 'good' Brexit deal'

= inside the EU customs union
= closely aligned to the single market
= freedom of movement to continue
= still having to pay into the EU

So it isn't a 'good' Brexit deal it is basically remain. Is this Labour 'misleading' the electorate or is it just a lie?

If Johnson is to get a trade deal by the end of next year I suspect it will have to include at least one of those things, probably regulatory alignment.

[Chip Harrison]

Sad times. Labour voters voting Tory. I remember when people had principles and stuck to them.

[Dy1geo]

Correct, I’d meant to write £1,030, but the figures are to make a point. And let’s not assume that all Labours pledges will need borrowing. But my point was that this isn’t ‘a massive increase in borrowing’, it’s probably single digit

It is not the debt you owe it is the servicing of the debt we pay currently around £86bn a year to service it now when 10 yr gilts are around 0.86%

If the markets are concerned over it the yields will rise and cost more to service, look at how Italian bond yields went up to 3.5% under previous populist government. Yes modern monetary theory states a sovereign country with own currency can always repay but then the £ gets hit

[Darthlaw]

Correct, I’d meant to write £1,030, but the figures are to make a point. And let’s not assume that all Labours pledges will need borrowing. But my point was that this isn’t ‘a massive increase in borrowing’, it’s probably single digit

"I'm sorry there's no money left" - Last outgoing Labour Government, just before they began screaming blue murder at the cuts needed to balance the books.

Hopefully Corbyn doesn't get the credit card again.