Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

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Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Croydon Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:12 pm

The trial of a 19 year old Burnley fan accused of racist comments towards Gaton Bong, during the game at Brighton, been abandoned.

Police body cam evidence shows that they arrested the wrong man!

Not sure what's happening with the case against the father

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by MACCA » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:58 pm

But what about all those fans who had already gave him the guilty verdict?

Wow a wrong man arrested and accused by many,
He must feel terrible.

What a waste of his and everyone else's time, and resources.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Croydon Claret » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:02 pm

Case against the father also dropped now. Magistrates non too pleased that this evidence had been withheld

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Rowls » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:04 pm

From the sounds of it this is very poor.

We should expect better of our public servants.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Longside4evr » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:07 pm

Has Chris Kamara would say unbelievable Jeff

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:10 pm

MACCA wrote:But what about all those fans who had already gave him the guilty verdict?

Wow a wrong man arrested and accused by many,
He must feel terrible.

What a waste of his and everyone else's time, and resources.
The cool thing about our justice system (or at least how it used to be, and sometimes still is) is that people are found guilty in a trial, not in the media, and that accusation does not equal guilt.

Imagine if this guy had no right to a trial. The police then wouldn't need to worry about their evidence proving his innocence because the accusation would mean he's guilty.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:12 pm

I guess this is what happens when we live in a country which has human rights and due process and doesn't rely on mob rule

Plenty on here should remember this next time they want to just string some one up without trial
Last edited by Devils_Advocate on Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:13 pm

The Burnley Express named the witness who made the allegations on a FB article.

Probably not the wisest thing to do.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:13 pm

Sorry if this is a daft question, but why didn't they use the body cam evidence to find the right person?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:18 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Sorry if this is a daft question, but why didn't they use the body cam evidence to find the right person?
some aren't the sharpest of tools...

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Eyres_11 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:59 pm

Brilliant stuff!

The police, stewards and BHA were way way over the top that day, so much so that it stopped me going this season.

I have been every time we played them up until this, in Feb they just seemed hell bent on chucking any accusations at any Burnley fan. I heard comments made about Jay-Rod - the lot.

Disgusting football club, who, lets face it love to play the victim and homophobic and now racist card at every chance.

One club I hope truly dies one day.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The Burnley Express named the witness who made the allegations on a FB article.

Probably not the wisest thing to do.
The witness’s name is all over the place within the reporting of the case.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Local cricketer » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:09 pm

Anybody asked Andy Naylor how he is. He was sure it happened

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:16 pm

Local cricketer wrote:Anybody asked Andy Naylor how he is. He was sure it happened
Naylor is with The Athletic now

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:24 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The cool thing about our justice system (or at least how it used to be, and sometimes still is) is that people are found guilty in a trial, not in the media, and that accusation does not equal guilt.

Imagine if this guy had no right to a trial. The police then wouldn't need to worry about their evidence proving his innocence because the accusation would mean he's guilty.
The uncool thing is that accusation stays in the media, the guilt by media remains and being charged even if not convicted will always be on his record*

*unofficially obviously

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:25 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:The uncool thing is that accusation stays in the media, the guilt by media remains and being charged even if not convicted will always be on his record*

*unofficially obviously
That's no ones fault but our own.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Leisure » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Hope that they're now being reimbursed for all the costs which they will have incurrued traveling to Brighton on numerous occasions for the court appearances!
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Leisure » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:30 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:That's no ones fault but our own.
So how have you come to that conclusion?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:31 pm

Leisure wrote:So how have you come to that conclusion?
Because if the media reports that someone is accused, and we read it as if they are guilty, then that's our fault.

I accept that my point was unclear.
Last edited by Imploding Turtle on Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Local cricketer » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Naylor is with The Athletic now

He was the biggest cheerleader off the lot

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by bfccrazy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:33 pm

I’ll be interested to see how Burnley deal with racist behaviour too as one of lads who comes on the turf with us has reported a person for monkey chanting at Odoi at the weekend.

I didn’t personally hear it but it’ll be interesting to see what paths the club go down to find out what happened.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:06 pm

bfccrazy wrote:I’ll be interested to see how Burnley deal with racist behaviour too as one of lads who comes on the turf with us has reported a person for monkey chanting at Odoi at the weekend.

I didn’t personally hear it but it’ll be interesting to see what paths the club go down to find out what happened.
The club have said on a number of occasions that they have a zero tolerance policy in terms of racism. You would hope that they will take any appropriate action.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by JohnDearyMe » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The club have said on a number of occasions that they have a zero tolerance policy in terms of racism. You would hope that they will take any appropriate action.
Can happily confirm that this is the case from my limited dealings with the club on this issue.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Because if the media reports that someone is accused, and we read it as if they are guilty, then that's our fault.

I accept that my point was unclear.
So you think this lad, who is obviously innocent, should be allowed to be named when not guilty? Especially if a relatively serious offence. Particularly when it’s likely in this day and age he works with people of various backgrounds?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:28 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:So you think this lad, who is obviously innocent, should be allowed to be named when not guilty? Especially if a relatively serious offence. Particularly when it’s likely in this day and age he works with people of various backgrounds?
He was accused. That's all. If we as individuals are stupid enough to not understand that just because someone is accused of a crime it doesn't make them guilty of it then that's our fault, not the medias.

If you want to have a discussion on whether the identities of anyone accused of a crime should be public public record then that's a different discussion, but it's not the media's fault that they report facts while their readers are morons who can't comprehend those facts correctly.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:31 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He was accused. That's all. If we as individuals are stupid enough to not understand that just because someone is accused of a crime it doesn't make them guilty of it then that's our fault, not the medias.

If you want to have a discussion on whether the identities of anyone accused of a crime should be public public record then that's a different discussion, but it's not the media's fault that they report facts while their readers are morons who can't comprehend those facts correctly.
Ok. So tomorrow when I accuse you of a sinister, severe crime you are cool with the media reporting when your back door gets hammered and you spend some time in custody even though you aren’t guilty? And you are happy with whatever spin they put on it?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Ok. So tomorrow when I accuse you of a sinister, severe crime you are cool with the media reporting when your back door gets hammered and you spend some time in custody even though you aren’t guilty? And you are happy with whatever spin they put on it?
Of course I wouldn't be cool with it, and i'd sue the press if they unfairly maligned me. But if the press did nothing but report the facts then my problem will be with the idiots who read those facts and then misrepresented them, or misunderstood them. My issue won't be with the press.

I'd also definitely be suing you.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Of course I wouldn't be cool with it, and i'd sue the press if they unfairly maligned me. But if the press did nothing but report the facts then my problem will be with the idiots who read those facts and then misrepresented them, or misunderstood them. My issue won't be with the press.

I'd also definitely be suing you.
:lol: ok

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Dy1geo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The cool thing about our justice system (or at least how it used to be, and sometimes still is) is that people are found guilty in a trial, not in the media, and that accusation does not equal guilt.

Imagine if this guy had no right to a trial. The police then wouldn't need to worry about their evidence proving his innocence because the accusation would mean he's guilty.
So you feel the same about Jimmy Saville or Cyril Smith

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:54 pm

Whilst we are talking about racism and guilt and see Bulgaria have been given a pitiful punishment following the antics the other week.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Walton » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:58 pm

The OP isn't how I've seen it reported, definitely no mention of arresting the wrong people.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Leisure » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:21 pm

Walton wrote:The OP isn't how I've seen it reported, definitely no mention of arresting the wrong people.
But no evidence to prove they were guilty.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:24 pm

Dy1geo wrote:So you feel the same about Jimmy Saville or Cyril Smith
You understand the purpose of a trial is to make public and weigh the evidence, right? Has the evidence against them NOT been made public and weighed?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Walton » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:39 pm

Leisure wrote:But no evidence to prove they were guilty.
Other than the witnesses' word, no.

I recall the thread on here, quite a few witnessed it.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by basil6345789 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:56 pm

A witness has to be considered to be reliable.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Pstotto » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:00 pm

I wrote an academic paper on race graphics and modernism and it was rejected because they said 'race graphics' was a term unacceptable, people might then start calling Lewis Hamilton a racist etc.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by basil6345789 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:06 pm

Pstotto wrote:I wrote an academic paper on race graphics and modernism and it was rejected because they said 'race graphics' was a term unacceptable, people might then start calling Lewis Hamilton a racist etc.
There was never any racism in Modernism, we just didn't like Rockers.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Leisure » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:27 pm

Walton wrote:Other than the witnesses' word, no.

I recall the thread on here, quite a few witnessed it.
In what way did they witness it? And if they actually did, why were they not called as witnesses?
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by basil6345789 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:42 pm

You can call them but they may well not turn up, even though they have agreed to and made statements. .A common occurrence which infuriates The CPS.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by If it be your will » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:30 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:The uncool thing is that accusation stays in the media, the guilt by media remains and being charged even if not convicted will always be on his record*

*unofficially obviously
And his DNA.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by IanMcL » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:07 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:I guess this is what happens when we live in a country which has human rights and due process and doesn't rely on mob rule

Plenty on here should remember this next time they want to just string some one up without trial
Mr Johnson's lot wish to remove such rights from the masses.
Beware!

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by UpTheClaretsFCBK » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:35 am

It's disappointing to see so much support for this trial being dropped.

I have personally witnessed both of the defendants using outrageously offensive language and racist on a coach to Crystal Palace with the Boundary Clarets in 2017. I remember it well because I couldn't believe what I was hearing throughout most of that trip, and because it was the same day as the Anthony Joshua vs Wladimir Klitschko fight at Wembley stadium. I remember the father, Stewart saying that he didn't want Joshua to win "because he was a N***a" and a "black "b******", words used frequently again on the drive into the London towards the general public, as they pressed their faces up against the coach window.

I submitted this information to the club at the time, but nothing came of it and I vowed never to travel with the Boundary Clarets (Though it's not their fault) ever again.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:41 am

Pstotto wrote:I wrote an academic paper on race graphics and modernism and it was rejected because they said 'race graphics' was a term unacceptable, people might then start calling Lewis Hamilton a racist etc.
Academic paper for who?
Rejected by who?
Why is race graphics unacceptable?
How would accepting an academic paper result in people calling Lewis Hamilton a racist?

Why do you bother typing such total and utter bullshit?

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by Grumps » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:46 am

They have been released on a technicality, they have been found neither guilty or not guilty. The prosecution have failed to make some item available to the defence for them to look at. This item might be of interest, or it may not, we don't know, just the fact that it wasn't disclosed led to the case folding. David Beckham and others have benefited in similar ways.
Now I know it's not the most reliable newspaper going, but prior to yesterday the Lancashire telegraph were reporting that their defence was that it was just banter, suggesting that they did say something, therefore the correct people were standing trial.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by UpTheClaretsFCBK » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:47 am

Grumps wrote:They have been released on a technicality, they have been found neither guilty or not guilty. The prosecution have failed to make some item available to the defence for them to look at. This item might be of interest, or it may not, we don't know, just the fact that it wasn't disclosed led to the case folding. David Beckham and others have benefited in similar ways.
Now I know it's not the most reliable newspaper going, but prior to yesterday the Lancashire telegraph were reporting that their defence was that it was just banter, suggesting that they did say something, therefore the correct people were standing trial.
A Burnley fan who was witness for the prosecution testified that Nathan, the son, replied to him saying, "It's just banter, it's just football", when he asked them to stop.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretFelix » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:48 am

The case was dropped as it was deemed that given the oversight/f*** up by the Police, they would not be able to guarantee a fair trial.
They have not been found guilty, nor have they been been acquitted and found to be innocent, which given the concerns raised by fellow clarets about their previous behaviour, raises an eyebrow or two
Last edited by ClaretFelix on Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:50 am

I wrote a thesis about having a 12 inch penis but it was rejected by all my previous lovers.
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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:13 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:I wrote a thesis about having a 12 inch penis but it was rejected by all my previous lovers.
Not me darling I remember our shenanigans at the Cats Whiskers ;)

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:20 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:Not me darling I remember our shenanigans at the Cats Whiskers ;)
It was the Hop actually

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Re: Alleged "Racist" Burnley fan - case dropped

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:24 am

That was you? My apologies daddy.

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