Petrol or diesel

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cricketfieldclarets
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Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:07 pm

As per title looking for advice on next car purchase which to opt for.

Always had diesel. And thought next purchase would be cut and dry. But had mixed feedback on cost of diesel now and in future. Cost of petrol coming down. Future diesel taxes. And resale value of vehicle etc.

Do a lot of miles, and a lot of motorway driving. So diesel SEEMS most logical. But been suggested might not be as cut and dried as it always has been. Thanks in advance...

Don't want electric. or Hybrid.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by bobinho » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:46 pm

Petrol.

Diesel is dirty. Taxes on its use will only get higher.

Had diesel in the past, not again tho. No future in it.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by IanMcL » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:39 pm

Electric will change your life.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by dsr » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:43 pm

IanMcL wrote:Electric will change your life.
It will if you drive a long way. It'll lead to a lot more nights away from home when your battery runs out, for example. ;) No good for long trips unless you have a garage every 200 miles.

What's the objection to hybrids? I'm told they are good to drive with very good mpg.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:46 pm

IanMcL wrote:Electric will change your life.
That's what the wife said
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Stayingup » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:51 pm

IanMcL wrote:Electric will change your life.
It certainly will it'll bankrupt him. !!!

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Stayingup » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:02 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:As per title looking for advice on next car purchase which to opt for.

Always had diesel. And thought next purchase would be cut and dry. But had mixed feedback on cost of diesel now and in future. Cost of petrol coming down. Future diesel taxes. And resale value of vehicle etc.

Do a lot of miles, and a lot of motorway driving. So diesel SEEMS most logical. But been suggested might not be as cut and dried as it always has been. Thanks in advance...

Don't want electric. or Hybrid.
I do a lot of motorway driving and the best engines for optimum mileage are diesel. But there is this now a massive campaign against diesel, with cost implications, that makes me think you might be better buying a petrol engine car. Bristol is said to be thinking of banning diesel engine vehicles at certain times which is an indicator of what will happen elsewhere.
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cricketfieldclarets
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:34 pm

Shame. Im sure they proved that modern diesels were no worse than petrol

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:34 pm

And always
Enjoyed driving diesels.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by the_fat_shearer » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:40 am

I was going to get a diesel but recent changes put me off. I think it's only going to get more expensive for diesels - in London there are some parking spaces which are almost double the cost if you are parking a diesel car there, for example (and parking ain't cheap there anyway!) .

Although the mileage is a good advantage I think that more and more measures are going to be brought in to deter diesel usage.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by 1fatclaret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:50 am

Depends on if it’s private or company car, and then if it’s company car, what the mileage rate is you can claim back.

I’ve gone petrol this time as a company car for the first time in 20 years. It costs me more for my private miles as I’m only getting 35 to 40mpg, but the saving against the diesel in every other aspect more than compensates.

If private car but used for work, diesel every time for now.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Caballo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:02 am

Diesel, as long as it's euro 6.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:08 am

If you do the miles to justify it, then diesel is still the fuel of choice.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:14 am

1fatclaret wrote:Depends on if it’s private or company car, and then if it’s company car, what the mileage rate is you can claim back.

I’ve gone petrol this time as a company car for the first time in 20 years. It costs me more for my private miles as I’m only getting 35 to 40mpg, but the saving against the diesel in every other aspect more than compensates.

If private car but used for work, diesel every time for now.
Thanks 1 fat. Private care used for work and personal. Do quite high mileage, even personally.

Not that I expect the car to retain its value but that may also be a factor too if petrols will hold significantly better.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:20 am

If you're doing long journeys with high mileage then it's still Diesel.

If you're doing a lot of stop start journeys then it's petrol because the current diesel emission systems aren't designed to cope with smaller stop start journeys due to their Diesel Particulate Filter being unable to clean itself out as it can't get up to the required temperature for long enough.

Having said that VAG quietly installed a similar thing on their petrol cars, naturally named the Petrol Particulate Filter, so I fully expect this to have the same issues with shorter stop start journeys and it will start to be installed on every petrol car regardless of brand soon enough, if not already.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:23 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If you're doing long journeys with high mileage then it's still Diesel.

If you're doing a lot of stop start journeys then it's petrol because the current diesel emission systems aren't designed to cope with smaller stop start journeys due to their Diesel Particulate Filter being unable to clean itself out as it can't get up to the required temperature for long enough.

Having said that VAG quietly installed a similar thing on their petrol cars, naturally named the Petrol Particulate Filter, so I fully expect this to have the same issues with shorter stop start journeys and it will start to be installed on every petrol car regardless of brand soon enough, if not already.
Yep. Someone I know bought a top end diesel. And drives under 4k miles a year one short journey. Surprise surprise the cars ******.

So i do mainly long drives. Lots of motorway. Occasional short drives but doesnt matter as theyre always after longer drives.

Diesel on paper in that sense is the obvious choice. And i thought was cut and dried. But not so sure.

Current diesel of choice is hardly frugal to be fair. :lol:

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:51 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Yep. Someone I know bought a top end diesel. And drives under 4k miles a year one short journey. Surprise surprise the cars ******.

So i do mainly long drives. Lots of motorway. Occasional short drives but doesnt matter as theyre always after longer drives.

Diesel on paper in that sense is the obvious choice. And i thought was cut and dried. But not so sure.

Current diesel of choice is hardly frugal to be fair. :lol:
Get a diesel then tbh.
Just keep an eye out for various cities either banning them or charging like London.

You'll also need to factor in the Adblue costs, they're cheaper from motor factors, not that they're massively expensive anyway, and one 10ltr bottle is usually good for 10k plus miles.
You'll get 3 different levels of warnings on the Adblue system, but if your car runs empty of it then it won't start again and that's a common problem because people don't know, or believe, that will happen :lol:

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Get a diesel then tbh.
Just keep an eye out for various cities either banning them or charging like London.

You'll also need to factor in the Adblue costs, they're cheaper from motor factors, not that they're massively expensive anyway, and one 10ltr bottle is usually good for 10k plus miles.
You'll get 3 different levels of warnings on the Adblue system, but if your car runs empty of it then it won't start again and that's a common problem because people don't know, or believe, that will happen :lol:
Yep have to fill up with adblue in my current and last car. Last three before that I didn't need adblue. TBH that's the biggest faff given where I have to pour it in. God knows who designed the location of it.

Thinking about it. Surely its unlikely that they are going to have major impact in the next 3 - 4 years anyway given how many wagons etc burn diesel...

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:01 am

dsr wrote:It will if you drive a long way. It'll lead to a lot more nights away from home when your battery runs out, for example. ;) No good for long trips unless you have a garage every 200 miles.

What's the objection to hybrids? I'm told they are good to drive with very good mpg.

Let me guess. You formed an opinion 10 years ago about electric cars and their mileage, and then didn't revisit it.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Caballo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:13 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Let me guess. You formed an opinion 10 years ago about electric cars and their mileage, and then didn't revisit it.

Much though you'd prefer it to be otherwise, dsrs' opinion is correct. If you're a high mileage user pure electric still isn't viable. Mild hybrid on the other hand!

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Mala591 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:18 am

Caballo wrote:Much though you'd prefer it to be otherwise, dsrs' opinion is correct. If you're a high mileage user pure electric still isn't viable. Mild hybrid on the other hand!
Genuine question:

What's the average m.p.g. for a hybrid car.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:20 am

Caballo wrote:Much though you'd prefer it to be otherwise, dsrs' opinion is correct. If you're a high mileage user pure electric still isn't viable. Mild hybrid on the other hand!
I'm sure finding a charging station isn't that difficult.

Image

And this magazine tested the Renault Zoe based on a 66-mile per day commute and it seemed to be working just fine.
(66 miles per days seems like a "high mileage user" to me, but i could be wrong. I'm not being sarcastic)
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/ ... ning-cost/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Imploding Turtle on Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:21 am

Tried hybrid. Didn't like for a multitude of reasons.

MPG Was shockingly poor when in petrol only mode. Boot space was poorer because of the battery taking up space. I cant charge it at home or work. And its a ballache to charge anyway for sake of 30 miles.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Down_Rover » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:26 am

Electric cars are not likely to be the way forward.

Emission is not the only issue. Electric cars have big FO Lithium batteries. Where are they going to be disposed of when the car needs scrapping. Philippines with all the plastic bottles?

Electric is just a vote winner for the Green Party. Best guess in the industry is that hydrogen cars are the way forward
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by ashtonlongsider » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:27 am

Personally wouldn't touch a Diesel. Production of them is plummeting and only going to increase over the next few years. As others have adhered to, cities will implement an environmental charge and Road Tax will increase along with fuel prices as the trend continues into extinction. No brainer, at present Petrol every time.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:30 am

Down_Rover wrote:Electric cars are not likely to be the way forward.

Emission is not the only issue. Electric cars have big FO Lithium batteries. Where are they going to be disposed of when the car needs scrapping. Philippines with all the plastic bottles?

Electric is just a vote winner for the Green Party. Best guess in the industry is that hydrogen cars are the way forward
Within the next 5 years there are a number of car manufacturers who will be selling either Electric or Hybrid models only.
Give it 10 years and there will be a number who sell electric only.

I stated a while ago that consumers were waiting for their favoured brands to start producing electric motors before they changed cars again and that's starting to happen now.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Caballo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:35 am

Mala591 wrote:Genuine question:

What's the average m.p.g. for a hybrid car.
I've recent experience with a C-class merc estate which driven spiritedly returned 68mpg over 40k miles. Non plug in mild hybrid.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Caballo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:46 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:
(66 miles per days seems like a "high mileage user" to me, but i could be wrong. I'm not being sarcastic)
I will take that response in good faith IT. 66 miles is the bottom of the street comparatively for some people, I'd pitch about 30k a year as my threshold for where high mileage begins but like yourself that's only my opinion. My commute is 110 miles a day and there are lads at work travelling further than me.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by houseboy » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:51 am

We have the best and worst of both worlds.We run a diesel automatic and a manual petrol and neither seems particularly better than the other. I use mainly the manual (Kia C'eed 1400) and get plenty of miles per gallon despite it's age (9 years - although it had a recon engine earlier this year). The 'family' car is a Volvo V40 Cross Country 1600 and that does a standard 50-odd mpg. I don't know which I would recommend. The Volvo is quieter and much faster on the motorways (and much easier in traffic jams) but the Kia is better around town because it is 'nippier'. We will change the Volvo early next year and stay with automatic but we will have the same dilemma (diesel or petrol). The Kia will be run into the ground as the second car then gracefully put to bed (by which time we may not need two cars).

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by chorleyhere » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:04 pm

Neither , I went electric and enjoying the experience - don't normally roam too far so just charge at home 1 maybe 2 times a week. It's lovely to get free electricity in town and drive serenely past the filling station price boards.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Let me guess. You formed an opinion 10 years ago about electric cars and their mileage, and then didn't revisit it.
You guessed wrong.

If all you want the car for is a 66 mile commute, and you have your own charging spot either at work or at home, they're fine. But if you find there is more to life than work, or if you have irregular work journeys, or for any other reason want to drive further; or if you don't have your own charging spot; then electrics have big inconveniences.

If I want to drive to Durham and back (and I do) I need to find a high speed charging point somewhere en route. That charging point needs to be in working order, needs to have no-one else parked at it, and needs to be in a convenient spot where waiting for 40 minutes is not a dead waste of time.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:16 pm

dsr wrote:You guessed wrong.

If all you want the car for is a 66 mile commute, and you have your own charging spot either at work or at home, they're fine. But if you find there is more to life than work, or if you have irregular work journeys, or for any other reason want to drive further; or if you don't have your own charging spot; then electrics have big inconveniences.

If I want to drive to Durham and back (and I do) I need to find a high speed charging point somewhere en route. That charging point needs to be in working order, needs to have no-one else parked at it, and needs to be in a convenient spot where waiting for 40 minutes is not a dead waste of time.
Congrats, you've managed to inform me that there is other potential use cases than a 66 mil commute. Thanks. It could never possibly have occured to me unless some old-fashioned contrarian on the internet told me.

Your second paragraph has actually added something to the conversation though, and i agree that more charging points do need to be added because while there are more charging points than petrol stations in the country already, those charging points take longer to use than a petrol pump.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:17 pm

Mala591 wrote:Genuine question:

What's the average m.p.g. for a hybrid car.

Hybrids are a bit of a strange one.

It al depends on the journeys you do.

If your crossing town in a lot of stop start , slow moving traffic every day it will save you quite a lot of cash.

On higher speed roads it’s just using the petrol engine and will be no different to a standard petrol.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:19 pm

chorleyhere wrote:Neither , I went electric and enjoying the experience - don't normally roam too far so just charge at home 1 maybe 2 times a week. It's lovely to get free electricity in town and drive serenely past the filling station price boards.

It will change as the reducing tax revenue from petrol and diesel gets transferred to electricity.

Enjoy whilst it lasts, could be for a good few years yet. But will come eventually.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:19 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Congrats, you've managed to inform me that there is other potential use cases than a 66 mil commute. Thanks. It could never possibly have occured to me unless some old-fashioned contrarian on the internet told me.
Actually I was informing you that in a discussion about whether electric cars are suitable for high mileage drivers, it isn't relevant to bring up a 66 mile commute.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:20 pm

For now I will be sticking with my two old smoky diesels.

And my 5.7 litre petrol soft top.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 pm

dsr wrote:Actually I was informing you that in a discussion about whether electric cars are suitable for high mileage drivers, it isn't relevant to bring up a 66 mile commute.
Of course it is. If you meant long distance drivers then you should have said that.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:23 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Of course it is. If you meant long distance drivers then you should have said that.
My apologies. I didn't know that you hadn't realised that the whole thread was started by and is about someone who does a lot of miles.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:26 pm

dsr wrote:My apologies. I didn't know that you hadn't realised that the whole thread was started by and is about someone who does a lot of miles.
You don't have to travel a long distance to do a lot of miles.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Herts Clarets » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:42 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Let me guess. You formed an opinion 10 years ago about electric cars and their mileage, and then didn't revisit it.
Issues with EVs (from someone who worked for the largest manufacturer of EV charging units).

1. An EV is still prohibitively expensive to buy when compared to a ICE vehicle
2. The charging infrastructure is insufficient at present to support a mass migration to EVs.
3. The depreciation on the asset that is an EV is horrendous. They are frequently top of the list of cars that lose the largest percentage of their value. For example a Nissan Leaf that cost you pushing £30k 3 years ago will fetch less than £10k. A similar aged BMW that cost similar when new will be £15k upwards. That's a lot of money to lose.
4. The majority of EV models haven't been around for long enough to demonstrate the longevity of the battery. If the battery fails, the costs renders most EVs an economic write off.

This is before you get into the realms of Grid capacity, fossil fuel power stations, raw materials and disposal of lithium batteries and a whole host of other issues.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by claret2018 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:28 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:For now I will be sticking with my two old smoky diesels.

And my 5.7 litre petrol soft top.
I didn't realise tractors were petrol powered.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:06 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:As per title looking for advice on next car purchase which to opt for.

Always had diesel. And thought next purchase would be cut and dry. But had mixed feedback on cost of diesel now and in future. Cost of petrol coming down. Future diesel taxes. And resale value of vehicle etc.

Do a lot of miles, and a lot of motorway driving. So diesel SEEMS most logical. But been suggested might not be as cut and dried as it always has been. Thanks in advance...

Don't want electric. or Hybrid.
As you don't want electric or hybrid. I assume you'd like the most polluting option, stick with the Diesel......your neighbors will love you for it!
They can't get enough of that smell...ooh and the fine particulates clogging their lungs.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by IanMcL » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:12 pm

Down_Rover wrote:Electric cars are not likely to be the way forward.

Emission is not the only issue. Electric cars have big FO Lithium batteries. Where are they going to be disposed of when the car needs scrapping. Philippines with all the plastic bottles?

Electric is just a vote winner for the Green Party. Best guess in the industry is that hydrogen cars are the way forward
I think you will be proved to be very wrong. There will be a compulsory re-use of Lithium, at some stage. There is also a n alternative, which could leave lithium as 'out of date'.

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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by IanMcL » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:15 pm

dsr wrote:It will if you drive a long way. It'll lead to a lot more nights away from home when your battery runs out, for example. ;) No good for long trips unless you have a garage every 200 miles.

What's the objection to hybrids? I'm told they are good to drive with very good mpg.
Fast charging will be on all makes, pretty soon.

Hybrids are yesterday's thought. They don't deliver much of an alternative and at greater cost and less space available.
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:40 pm

claret2018 wrote:I didn't realise tractors were petrol powered.
It’s an American tractor.

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dsr
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:21 pm

IanMcL wrote:Fast charging will be on all makes, pretty soon.

Hybrids are yesterday's thought. They don't deliver much of an alternative and at greater cost and less space available.
Fast charging will certainly happen - either battery changing or by new charging systems, who knows. But charging will have to speed up (and prices come down) if electric cars are to compete with petrol.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:03 pm

dsr wrote:Fast charging will certainly happen - either battery changing or by new charging systems, who knows. But charging will have to speed up (and prices come down) if electric cars are to compete with petrol.
I think solid-state batteries will be the death knell of petrol vehicles more than fast charging technology for existing batteries. It'll help though.

cricketfieldclarets
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:20 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:As you don't want electric or hybrid. I assume you'd like the most polluting option, stick with the Diesel......your neighbors will love you for it!
They can't get enough of that smell...ooh and the fine particulates clogging their lungs.
Sounds good. The bastards were ringing the bell singing Halloween songs while baby was in bed last night.

Lord Beamish
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lord Beamish » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:29 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:It’s an American tractor.

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A Camaro; I never realised that you were a Serial Killer.
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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Petrol or diesel

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:51 am

Lord Beamish wrote:A Camaro; I never realised that you were a Serial Killer.
I didn’t know that was prerequisite to owning one!!

To be fair it was a given to me.

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