Petrol or diesel

[IanMcL]

Fast charging will certainly happen - either battery changing or by new charging systems, who knows. But charging will have to speed up (and prices come down) if electric cars are to compete with petrol.

My council and others, provide free chargers. Asda and Waitrose too. McDonalds in Burnley. Not fast but useful.
My super charging is free too, so my trips to Burnley, with imposed breaks for charging, are safe and free.
No service like other cars. No car tax at present. Might even get bus lane use, I hear! Large initial outlay but enjoying every minute.

[Taffy on the wing]

Sounds good. The bastards were ringing the bell singing Halloween songs while baby was in bed last night.

Just leave it running for half an hour, warm it up like.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Just leave it running for half an hour, warm it up like.

I will time it with their ecig smoking.

[Rick_Muller]

My council and others, provide free chargers. Asda and Waitrose too. McDonalds in Burnley. Not fast but useful.
My super charging is free too, so my trips to Burnley, with imposed breaks for charging, are safe and free.
No service like other cars. No car tax at present. Might even get bus lane use, I hear! Large initial outlay but enjoying every minute.

I wish I had the initial outlay to get myself a Tesla car and then Powerwall with solar panels but it is just so prohibitively high at the moment so my 75mpg diesel Civic is what I drive

[Wokingclaret]

My council and others, provide free chargers. Asda and Waitrose too. McDonalds in Burnley. Not fast but useful.
My super charging is free too, so my trips to Burnley, with imposed breaks for charging, are safe and free.
No service like other cars. No car tax at present. Might even get bus lane use, I hear! Large initial outlay but enjoying every minute.

Enjoy it whilst its free as it won't last

[chorleyhere]

For those just wanting to try out an EV get a second hand one with a 5 year battery guarantee. As with ALL vehicles it's the buyer from new that takes the real hit on depreciation. However some some EVs are fetching almost new prices second hand (KIA eNIRO)

[chipbutty]

I've recent experience with a C-class merc estate which driven spiritedly returned 68mpg over 40k miles. Non plug in mild hybrid.

My wife has a Honda Civic Sport Diesel. 1.6 I think. It easily does 60 plus MPG on decent journeys and averages around 58 on all journeys including crappy school run type visits.

[IanMcL]

Enjoy it whilst its free as it won't last

I have an older vehicle, so lifetime free. That's why I sank my funds last year.

I was getting a bit 'noddy' during those long 50mph zones on the M6 and wondered how long I could keep coming. The adaptive cruise and autopilot keeps me safe and apt less tired.

I get enforced breaks (like now) too!

Sat charging in Northampton. Had to pick the boss up! Ha!

[IanMcL]

My wife has a Honda Civic Sport Diesel. 1.6 I think. It easily does 60 plus MPG on decent journeys and averages around 58 on all journeys including crappy school run type visits.

It is a huge outlay, I agree. Less on the Tesla Model 3 now.

[cricketfieldclarets]

So looks like Bristol will be banning diesel even though a modern diesel car is cleaner and more efficient than petrol...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/empoweri ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bosscat]

As per title looking for advice on next car purchase which to opt for.

Always had diesel. And thought next purchase would be cut and dry. But had mixed feedback on cost of diesel now and in future. Cost of petrol coming down. Future diesel taxes. And resale value of vehicle etc.

Do a lot of miles, and a lot of motorway driving. So diesel SEEMS most logical. But been suggested might not be as cut and dried as it always has been. Thanks in advance...

Don't want electric. or Hybrid.

Before dissing Electric contact IanMcL... He is coping with high mileages by planning ......

We have both petrol and deisel ...

2018 1.2 Citroen C3 auto petrol (ave 40mpg)
&
2016 3.0 Jag XFS auto diesel (ave 40mpg)

The diesel uses "adblue" so currently meets emmissions for most places...

I am still fancying an Electric vehicle ... but think it will be a few years yet... letting the infrastructure grow... but most of our driving is under 40 mile radius so it might be sooner rather than later.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So looks like Bristol will be banning diesel even though a modern diesel car is cleaner and more efficient than petrol...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/empoweri ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Diesels are only cleaner and more efficient if used on regular long journeys.
Short driving isn't any good for a new diesel engine and will often make it inefficient and more harmful gasses will appear from the back of it.
DPF's aren't really designed for shorter journeys, with more stop starts etc.

Banning them in cities is a good idea really, because the average motorist doesn't have the first idea of what's required to keep their diesel running efficiently.

The average motorist still thinks 10w/40 engine oil is suitable for a modern engine but it hasn't been the primary option for 20 years or so now.
The same motorists also think every garage is out to rip them off and want the cheapest, crappiest filters fitted which will also result in their car being inefficient.

Far to many garages are also guilty of fitting the cheapest filters they can to maximize profits but it's also having an effect on the environment doing that.

[Caballo]

So looks like Bristol will be banning diesel even though a modern diesel car is cleaner and more efficient than petrol...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/empoweri ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sometimes it's better to be seen to be acting, than actually achieving.

[Imploding Turtle]

Sometimes it's better to be seen to be acting, than actually achieving.

It's a start. When has the first step of a journey ever achieved something on its own?

[Rick_Muller]

So looks like Bristol will be banning diesel even though a modern diesel car is cleaner and more efficient than petrol...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/empoweri ... spartanntp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only banning private cars, not the buses though which is a surprise as the last time I drove though Bristol the bus I followed was belching clouds of fumes as it was going along. Would be good to see councils across the country leading by example and moving onto clean energy for public transport.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I am still fancying an Electric vehicle ... but think it will be a few years yet... letting the infrastructure grow... but most of our driving is under 40 mile radius so it might be sooner rather than later.

I did the maths on the Tesla and was shocked.

On an average mileage a £40,000 Tesla will save over £2,000 annually at the pumps. Factor in lack of brake wear due to the engine doing much of the braking, and the reduced servicing needs, the car will be cheaper than a petrol or diesel equivalent if kept for a few years or more. As a company car with the zero emissions tax benefits it is superb because it saves 20% in corporation tax all in year 1 and it adds only a little tax for the driver.

I was a bit sceptical before the testdrive with just an Ipad for a dashboard but it worked really well and accelerated quicker than a Porsche I drove on the track last year. The boot space is massive too.

Looking forward to it when it arrives next month.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I did the maths on the Tesla and was shocked.

On an average mileage a £40,000 Tesla will save over £2,000 annually at the pumps. Factor in lack of brake wear due to the engine doing much of the braking, and the reduced servicing needs, the car will be cheaper than a petrol or diesel equivalent if kept for a few years or more. As a company car with the zero emissions tax benefits it is superb because it saves 20% in corporation tax all in year 1 and it adds only a little tax for the driver.

I was a bit sceptical before the testdrive with just an Ipad for a dashboard but it worked really well and accelerated quicker than a Porsche I drove on the track last year. The boot space is massive too.

Looking forward to it when it arrives next month.

Yep a lot of the Tesla does add up. But for me personally wouldn't work (right now).

[IanMcL]

Very much safer too!

As said, when I am at traffic lights and the car next to me is inching forward and revving in eagerness to please its driver, it is great fun to sit calmly and when the lights change, silently zoom forward in a flash, and look back to see they are off the line!

I am easily pleased. I don't speed, so they do eventually go past and invariably look across. Ha!

[Caballo]

It's a start. When has the first step of a journey ever achieved something on its own?

It is a start, it's the usual broad brush approach I have issue with. The latest euro6 diesels are producing less emissions than the current crop of petrol cars.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It is a start, it's the usual broad brush approach I have issue with. The latest euro6 diesels are producing less emissions than the current crop of petrol cars.

Only if driven in the right conditions and as I've pointed out, a lot of them aren't...

[dsr]

I did the maths on the Tesla and was shocked.

On an average mileage a £40,000 Tesla will save over £2,000 annually at the pumps. Factor in lack of brake wear due to the engine doing much of the braking, and the reduced servicing needs, the car will be cheaper than a petrol or diesel equivalent if kept for a few years or more. As a company car with the zero emissions tax benefits it is superb because it saves 20% in corporation tax all in year 1 and it adds only a little tax for the driver.

I was a bit sceptical before the testdrive with just an Ipad for a dashboard but it worked really well and accelerated quicker than a Porsche I drove on the track last year. The boot space is massive too.

Looking forward to it when it arrives next month.

'Average' mileage of 15,000 miles or more. At the current price of about £1.25 per litre, based on 40 mpg, you need to drive 14,545 miles to cost £2,000 p.a. in petrol. Add a few more because electricity isn't free, and you have a pretty high average.

A decent second hand car costs about £5k. (At any rate, I have had 5 in 30 years and none of them cost more than £5k, and all have been reliable.) That's about £22,000 capital cost of my car. I'd need to save a heck of a lot in servicing to make a £40k purchase worthwhile - or else run it for 60 years!

There may be lots of reasons to drive a Tesla, but saving money won't be one of them.

[CrosspoolClarets]

'Average' mileage of 15,000 miles or more. At the current price of about £1.25 per litre, based on 40 mpg, you need to drive 14,545 miles to cost £2,000 p.a. in petrol. Add a few more because electricity isn't free, and you have a pretty high average.

A decent second hand car costs about £5k. (At any rate, I have had 5 in 30 years and none of them cost more than £5k, and all have been reliable.) That's about £22,000 capital cost of my car. I'd need to save a heck of a lot in servicing to make a £40k purchase worthwhile - or else run it for 60 years!

There may be lots of reasons to drive a Tesla, but saving money won't be one of them.

Driving mainly in a very hilly city in a 3 litre diesel and that 40mpg becomes 25mpg very easily. I tend to get 32mpg driving to the Turf. That’s why my maths add up. Everyone should factor in their own circumstances. I have had my car for 12 years and would plan to have the Tesla the same length, like a fine wine it will get better with age (software updates).

Clearly buying old cars second hand will be the cheapest (and most polluting) option.

But for those who want to buy or lease a new saloon or SUV car, the maths on buying the cheaper Teslas outright beats most of them hands down. Get it on credit or lease, and it won’t. It won’t be as advantageous if I didn’t buy it through my business either, especially now the government taxes even basic rate taxpayers just for withdrawing our (already taxed) money from the business. So I accept the logic doesn't work for everyone but it will for some.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Driving mainly in a very hilly city in a 3 litre diesel and that 40mpg becomes 25mpg very easily. I tend to get 32mpg driving to the Turf. That’s why my maths add up. Everyone should factor in their own circumstances. I have had my car for 12 years and would plan to have the Tesla the same length, like a fine wine it will get better with age (software updates).

Clearly buying old cars second hand will be the cheapest (and most polluting) option.

But for those who want to buy or lease a new saloon or SUV car, the maths on buying the cheaper Teslas outright beats most of them hands down. Get it on credit or lease, and it won’t. It won’t be as advantageous if I didn’t buy it through my business either, especially now the government taxes even basic rate taxpayers just for withdrawing our (already taxed) money from the business. So I accept the logic doesn't work for everyone but it will for some.

Whats the longevity and life expectancy of a tesla. Never considered one. And doubt I will buy one right now. But may be a wildcard I wasnt considering.

As i say dont think it would suit my circumstances but...

[Imploding Turtle]

It is a start, it's the usual broad brush approach I have issue with. The latest euro6 diesels are producing less emissions than the current crop of petrol cars.

Tough ****. We need a broad brush now since we've ****** about so long in actually doing something. This "broad brush" will make diesel cars less attractive options for commuters making them go for cleaners options. And it sets the path for petrol cars to be next, eventually.

I don't give a **** if they could have been more precise about which diesels they ban, they all need to go eventually.

[Caballo]

Tough ****. We need a broad brush now since we've ****** about so long in actually doing something. This "broad brush" will make diesel cars less attractive options for commuters making them go for cleaners options. And it sets the path for petrol cars to be next, eventually.

I don't give a **** if they could have been more precise about which diesels they ban, they all need to go eventually.

Standard!

[Imploding Turtle]

Standard!

Is that a concession to the point i made, or are we already at the stage where you justify not trying to counter the point i made because i used too many asterisks?

[IanMcL]

Whats the longevity and life expectancy of a tesla. Never considered one. And doubt I will buy one right now. But may be a wildcard I wasnt considering.

As i say dont think it would suit my circumstances but...

8 years on batteries and powertrain.
4 years/50k for rest. Roadside assistance included and 'over the air'. Lots can be done via your software, to get going again.

My 50k has just been reached, so signed up for breakdown cover at £60. Over the sir still available. Breakdown would get me to service centre.

No service done. Just tyres.
Very spacious! Big inside, large boot and empty front!
Just motors and battery. The rest is....what do we expect of a vehicle? At present, that's a car lookalike.

[cricketfieldclarets]

8 years on batteries and powertrain.
4 years/50k for rest. Roadside assistance included and 'over the air'. Lots can be done via your software, to get going again.

My 50k has just been reached, so signed up for breakdown cover at £60. Over the sir still available. Breakdown would get me to service centre.

No service done. Just tyres.
Very spacious! Big inside, large boot and empty front!
Just motors and battery. The rest is....what do we expect of a vehicle? At present, that's a car lookalike.

Its those figures that mainly put me off. Just not practical right now.

I am sure in the next five years things will be different. And in ten years people will probably wonder wtf we were doing with polluting engines for so long.

But at the minute those charge times aren't suitable. I could probably make do with a 300 mile range (which is probably more like 200). But not when it takes so long to repower.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Its those figures that mainly put me off. Just not practical right now.

I am sure in the next five years things will be different. And in ten years people will probably wonder wtf we were doing with polluting engines for so long.

But at the minute those charge times aren't suitable. I could probably make do with a 300 mile range (which is probably more like 200). But not when it takes so long to repower.

These are the Model 3 figures - I think it necessitates having a 7kw charging point at home but then a night’s charging would cover most of us for the next day at 27 miles added for each hour of charging. Apologies for formatting - posting in a rush on ipad.

I’m going to live with a 3 pin plug for 6 months while in a rental during my house renovation. Let’s see how it goes.


Charging method Typically found at Charging time* Range/hour**
Empty to full
3-pin plug Home 24 - 33 h 9 - 10 m/h
3.7kW Home / Work 15 - 21 h 15 - 16 m/h
7kW Home / Work / Public Locations 8 - 11 h 27 - 29 m/h
22kW Work / Public Locations 5 - 7 h 43 - 46 m/h

20%-80% full
50kW Public Locations 40 - 60 min 98 - 105 m/30 min
150kW Public Locations 20 min 210 - 301 m/30 min

[IanMcL]

Most folk charge at home over night and when on a journey, use the superchargers, which are fast.

7kw charges at 22mph. 10 hours = 220 added to what was in the tank. In warm weather it will be a lot less loss than cold.
230 in worst situation gets me to Stoke (170m) with 30+ left in the tank.

Supercharge, have wee, sandwich, drink and put match thread on and I am away and refreshed.

[dsr]

Most folk charge at home over night ...

Which makes them useless for people who don't have a drive and/or garage. They won't supercede petrol cars unless and until they make recharging take 5 minutes or so (or unless they drive the less-rich people off the road).