So looking forward and moving On quickly from today and the last few games it’s still early in the season but I feel these next 3 games are crucial already.

I hate talking about a relegation battle but we got to be now looking over our shoulders especially short term. If we get 9 points then we will be sat talking about a top half finish but should we only get say 3 we could be in big danger going into December.

First change was done today in Taylor for Eric but what else needs to change for us to get back to form....

We just seem so slow and lethargic in our play heard today we have the worst passing % in the league are we playing the wrong way with the players we now have?

Would like to see us play with natural wingers if we are to stick 4-4-2 which we will. Move Hendrix to CM, DD maybe play a big part yet too his passing ability can help us unlock tight defences. I think part of the reason for our slow play is cork he does lots of things well but just to slow in moving the ball for me now in our team. McNeill is always screaming for the ball and by the time he gets it he’s no space or time to shine.

From today I think our best forward line is definitely Wood and Barnes hence the need for two natural wingers. Get that ball out wide and crossed into the box old school football but it’s worked well for us before and will again.

UTC

Small changes needed to get us back on the up and get us back on track for a top half finish which is still achievable.

Most important is to get Wood fit.

Go 5 in midfield, with Brady and McNeil on the wings.

Pope

Bardsley Tarkowski Mee Taylor

McNeil Hendrick Westwood Brady

Vydra

Wood

KefkaClaret wrote:Go 5 in midfield, with Brady and McNeil on the wings.

Not at home. Far too negative.

4-4-2 with Wood and Barnes up top. Has to be.

Nobody can seriously want to not start Wood & Barnes if they are both available.

T

A

Y

L

O

R

Defence for a start

Bardsley
Tarky
Gibson
Taylor

Absolute shite was that.

Taylor and Wood starting are 2 important jigsaw pieces hopefully both for next week

Hendrick for Cork please

Vegas Claret wrote:Hendrick for Cork please

Whether right or wrong, that's a move I don't think SD will do unless forced due to injury/suspension.

FactualFrank wrote:Whether right or wrong, that's a move I don't think SD will do unless forced due to injury/suspension.

Agree, won't drop his favourites

Anyone calling for Cork to be dropped, who was easily our best midfielder today and has been this season, is mad. Westwood needs to drop out now.

There is no point thinking Dyche will do anything other than 442, it has worked well for him for 7 years. I would love to see 352

ClaretAL, the time to try things like that is close season, or you're rock bottom and desperate. We aren't there yet.

Also ClaretAl we don’t have the personal for 5-3-2 like that sadly Taylor would suit it but the rest I don’t think would.

Bardsley not a wing back, Brady would not fit the system and we would be overrun in midfield as Brady and McNeil would drift wide.

I like the idea of a formation change but 5-3-2 isn’t the one with our personal.

Pope
Bardsley Tarky Mee Taylor
Brady Hendrick Westwood McNeil
Barnes Wood

Lennon instead of Brady possibly, Gibson might also be close to a start but the captain is in his place

MACCA wrote:Pope
Bardsley Tarky Mee Taylor
Brady Hendrick Westwood McNeil
Barnes Wood

Lennon instead of Brady possibly, Gibson might also be close to a start but the captain is in his place

I think if we went with that starting 11, it would be better if Brady and McNeil swapped places.

We need Wood back ASAP he is pivotal to our team and Barnes is so much better with him. I’d be looking to put Bardsley and Taylor in. Midfield Hendrick or Drinkwater for Cork.

Pope
Lowton
Tarkowski
Mee
Taylor
Brady
Hendrick
Westwood
McNeil
Vydra
Wood

And that is with Vydra in the hole playing off Wood like Ings used to with Vokes.

Westwood has got to stop playing centre half! He is never in front of play and always runs behind players to receive the ball, majority of his passes are the to Tarks or Mee. With his pace he should be getting up in the box more and be more of a goal scoring threat, but he'd much rather pass on responsibility.

Taylor

Vydra

Brady

And tell Jeff to get to the back stick like he's been told to do. Taylor floated a ball in today that was begging for him to knock it it from the far post.

Where was he? Edge of the penalty box.

Hey, we're all allowed have a shoite day at work.

3 points against west ham will put s smile on everybody's face.

Get at 'em...

Taylor to start for sure and Wood (if fit) for Jayrod.
I might even consider giving Vydra a start. Possibly instead of Barnes.
Vydra will offer something different to Barnes and needs more game time than just the odd few minutes.
Possibly start Brady too. Again he needs more game time if he's ever going to get
back to the sort of form he was beginning to show before he got injured.
The same could be said for Gibson and maybe he should be given a start too.
He again could offer something more/different than say Mee does.

However can't see Dyche making wholesale changes unless we do badly in the next two or three games
or he's forced to through injuries.
Albeit it might be a case of try and 'stop the rot' now afore it gets too deep.

However, wouldn't wish to go into the December fixtures in or close to the bottom three.

jurek wrote:Taylor to start for sure and Wood (if fit) for Jayrod.
I might even consider giving Vydra a start. Possibly instead of Barnes.
Vydra will offer something different to Barnes and needs more game time than just the odd few minutes.
Possibly start Brady too. Again he needs more game time if he's ever going to get
back to the sort of form he was beginning to show before he got injured.
The same could be said for Gibson and maybe he should be given a start too.
He again could offer something more/different than say Mee does.

However can't see Dyche making wholesale changes unless we do badly in the next two or three games
or he's forced to through injuries.
Albeit it might be a case of try and 'stop the rot' now afore it gets too deep.

However, wouldn't wish to go into the December fixtures in or close to the bottom three.

Wood and Barnes start. It's that simple. If Wood is fit to start.

HuncoatClaret wrote:Westwood has got to stop playing centre half! He is never in front of play and always runs behind players to receive the ball, majority of his passes are the to Tarks or Mee. With his pace he should be getting up in the box more and be more of a goal scoring threat, but he'd much rather pass on responsibility.

You see. We CAN agree on things, but Westwood and pace? Really?

Westwood has pace, you must be able to see that from your TV?

The reason we have the worst passing percentage in the league is because we play the longest passes, which are harder to complete. If the back four spent a lot more time passing it among themselves instead of getting it forward quickly, the percentage would go up.

Maybe we could find a game when we are losing and the opposition aren't pressing, and Tarkowski and Pope could stand a yard apart and pass to each other a couple of thousand times in 10 minutes. that would improve the passing percentage no end.

Pope
Bardsley Tarky Mee Taylor
Brady Hendrick Westwood McNeil
Barnes Wood

Bardsley will give the fan's and the team a boost with his style of play Lowton needs a rest, Taylor brings McNeil more into the game he overlaps with him.

Cork been crap for well over a year now gives the ball away to much but only just above Westwood.

If Brady and Gudmundsson are Injured I'd like to see a team like this.

Pope
Bardsley Tarky Mee Taylor
Hendrick vydra Westwood McNeil
Barnes Wood

And in certain away games we need to play

451 (4411)

Pope
Bardsley Tarky Mee Taylor
Brady Hendrick Westwood McNeil
Vydra
Wood

We need a new Captain

Unfortunately we all know that 6 or 7 of our regulars are untouchable, see the way Cork waltzed straight back in as soon as he was fit. Hopefully the penny has finally dropped about Taylor in for Pieters, and Wood will be back if fit. Maybe Bardsley in for Lowton, not a chance he'll make wholesale changes.

We need a plan B, when we go behind Dyche/team doesn't know what to do, we are totally clueless on how to chase or change a game.

jrgbfc wrote:Unfortunately we all know that 6 or 7 of our regulars are untouchable, see the way Cork waltzed straight back in as soon as he was fit. Hopefully the penny has finally dropped about Taylor in for Pieters, and Wood will be back if fit. Maybe Bardsley in for Lowton, not a chance he'll make wholesale changes.

And that's what frustrates me about Dyche, to loyal to the players and won't make changes, it will in the end cost him his job.

ClaretMov wrote:And that's what frustrates me about Dyche, to loyal to the players and won't make changes, it will in the end cost him his job.

No it won't. Even if we went down there is no way Mike Garlick would want anyone else to get us back up.

Why not the football under dyche for quite a while now is crap.

Since the start of 2019 wd have played 29 league games

Won 10
Drawn 7
Lost 12

But out of those 10 wins 3 come last season against Fulham Huddersfield and Cardiff that all 3 got relegated

3 wins this season have come against Southampton Norwich and Everton all are awful at the back and Everton went down to ten men before we got a one nil win, those ten wins are just paper over massive cracks.

This season without looking at previous season's we average just over 3 shots on target per game and in a lot of games we don't register a single shot on target.

We have a plan A but no plan B

I'm afraid to say that Soon the fan's and the board's patience will run out, yes little Burnley punching way above our weight and compared to the bad old days of the past this is heaven in the premier league but to the younger generation that are spoilt and knows nothing but top flight and championship football these are the ones that will vote with their feet, that already reflects in the away support we don't sell out because the football is rubbish, yesterday cost me for transport match ticket beer and food for me and my son 140 quid for a local derby game and it was poor, the away numbers are dropping and soon the home gates will to, it needs freshening up.

I'd love to see 5 in midfield with Wood up top,it's never going to happen,but I would at least give it a try.

Its not the players fault.
Its the the Dyche has them playing.
Dyche got 3 things wrong yesterday.
1. The system they played we dident counter that. Constant long balls to nobody.
2. We played Jay Rod and then pumped long balls up to him thats not his game.
3 Then he blamed the players in his interview saying they took they handy option to play long.

Dyche takes all the praise when we win saying there are many ways to play to get result.
Yet when we loose its the players that took the handy option to play long.
Not impressed with Mr Dyche at all.

One game at a time.....show the players the first half West Ham Video. Newcastle didn't sit back yesterday.

We've regressed massively since the 7th position finish. During that season we passed it around and mixed tactics up, yet we've gone back to the same old either a)hoof it to the front two and hole for a knock down, or b)play a long ball into the channel and hope someone gets past the defender to cross it in. Both are predictable and far too easy to read. We need to mix it up far more than we are doing, stop having defenders hoof it every time, play through the middle a bit (like the goal at Brighton) and then when it comes to January, get in a new version of Defour. (Imo)

Belial wrote:We've regressed massively since the 7th position finish. During that season we passed it around and mixed tactics up, yet we've gone back to the same old either a)hoof it to the front two and hole for a knock down, or b)play a long ball into the channel and hope someone gets past the defender to cross it in. Both are predictable and far too easy to read. We need to mix it up far more than we are doing, stop having defenders hoof it every time, play through the middle a bit (like the goal at Brighton) and then when it comes to January, get in a new version of Defour. (Imo)

We've regressed since 7th - yep understandably because we completely over achieved and exceeded everyone's expectations.

taio wrote:We've regressed since 7th - yep understandably because we completely over achieved and exceeded everyone's expectations.

Why? We've allegedly been building for a few years now, isn't the point of that to improve and not regress? I'm not saying we should be finishing top 7 every year because that's unrealistic, but our tactics should have moved on to the point that in games like yesterday when the 'typical' system wasn't working we should be able to play a different way

Belial wrote:We've regressed massively since the 7th position finish. During that season we passed it around and mixed tactics up, yet we've gone back to the same old either a)hoof it to the front two and hole for a knock down, or b)play a long ball into the channel and hope someone gets past the defender to cross it in. Both are predictable and far too easy to read. We need to mix it up far more than we are doing, stop having defenders hoof it every time, play through the middle a bit (like the goal at Brighton) and then when it comes to January, get in a new version of Defour. (Imo)

The first half of that season we had a fit Defour pulling the strings in the middle of the park. Made a huge difference.

Belial wrote:Why? We've allegedly been building for a few years now, isn't the point of that to improve and not regress? I'm not saying we should be finishing top 7 every year because that's unrealistic, but our tactics should have moved on to the point that in games like yesterday when the 'typical' system wasn't working we should be able to play a different way

Most managers, and by default their teams, have a singular style of football and its inherent weaknesses and a number of then will struggle to implement a plan B because they don't focus on it as much.

For example Everton will concede goals from set pieces because that's a weakness of their manager, as shown at his previous jobs in England.

Howe usually has a leaky defence because of the open style of football his team's play.

jrgbfc wrote:The first half of that season we had a fit Defour pulling the strings in the middle of the park. Made a huge difference.

I'm just going to put out there that Drinkwater was meant to be performing that role this season

Changes and thoughts

Is Wood going to solve all the problems we showed yesterday? No. And rushing him back after an injury would be idiocy
Is JRod a central striker? I don't think so
Is Cork cutting the mustard? I'd prefer Hendrick in CM
Would Brady give us a bit more going forward? Almost certainly
Does Vydra deserve a chance? After a long chat with some Baggies yesterday, who have seen alot more of Vydra and JRod recently than we have, then I think he does
Do we lack creativity in midfield? Yes. But where do we get it from. Plan A 442 seems to be our solution
What's our best defence? God knows
Do we trust SD? Yes. Enough

I said on here before the season started that if our midfield were to consist of Hendrick, Westwood and Cork, we would struggle. I have seen nothing to change that opinion. We need at leat two new midfielders and Taylor has to start. Also, Mee is struggling at the moment, he is not a captain.

We are fast approaching a year since Mike Rigg was appointed. You would hope he has now identified some good viable options for the January transfer window and we finally bring in some better quality.


No more excuses we clearly need to upgrade after disappointing dealings over the last few

Several, if not all, our lads are far too comfortable knowing that SD is, at best, reluctant to make changes. They need to improve their hunger & please, please concentrate on their delivery, rather than their ‘photo shape’ when they simply punt the ball.

jrgbfc wrote:The first half of that season we had a fit Defour pulling the strings in the middle of the park. Made a huge difference.

Absolutely, hence my point at the end of the comment saying we need a new Defour in January

I would start with both full backs Lowton and Pieters for Bardsley and Taylor. Obviously if Wood is fit, he would come in for a light weight Rodriguez.
Barnes is getting plenty of chances but he is not finishing, we need to stick with him. He missed a couple of sitters against Chelsea and the same yesterday.

Hendrick was the best choice out right to protect Lowton, once we have introduced a better full back in Bardsley I might run the risk of giving Brady a try and resting Cork in the mid for Hendrick

Barnes has been awful for a good few weeks now but everyone wants Jay dropped?