Re: Realistic transfer targets in January
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:32 am
Can't believe Bowen is still at Hull. Has he seen the same specialist as Charlie Austin?
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42891
BOYSIE31 wrote:You look them up if you are so bothered as they are there and even a quote above in this thread but take those specs off.
TVC15 wrote:I know let’s win games rather than lose them and score goals not concede them
That’s about the level of debate you are offering up.
There is not a club who does not make “mistakes” in the transfer market.
So even if your £50m is correct for wages and transfer fees that is still a fraction of the half a billion plus Dyche has generated in sky money from the transfer strategy he has used - plus another £40m or £50m profit on player sales.
If you really want to add something to the debate tell us all a club in this league who has had less costly mistakes than SD has during his time in charge.
BOYSIE31 wrote:I am not saying he hasnt done well that is obvious but his downfall is his transfer policy.
But other clubs can afford one or two mistakes but little ole Burnley cant afford 8.
claretonthecoast1882 wrote:The only thing that is repeated every transfer window is your admittance with regards how much you struggle through every transfer window.
If I take those specs off would I be able to see things that aren't there like you or would it just make me tell lies.
You don't have to remain silent ( it is entertaining how upset you get during a window) just sensible would help you.BOYSIE31 wrote:Ok i will be silent until after window - we will not sign anyone in jan and probably righly so as its a strange market and will probably extend Drinwater to the end of season - (another million gone)
claretonthecoast1882 wrote: You don't have to remain silent ( it is entertaining how upset you get during a window) just sensible would help you.
Do you think there is a manager out there who hasn't made mistakes in the transfer market ?
After the last 7 years, don't you think between the board and manager they have done enough to earn your trust ?
BOYSIE31 wrote:Will you be saying the same when the begging bowl is back out ?
claretonthecoast1882 wrote:You are doing it again. You really do struggle.
MACCA wrote:IMO we are due a window where 2 or 3 quality players come in for circa 50m.
I thought that would be last summer, however for various reasons it wasn't to be.
We are in a catch 22, finish the season just about staying up and looking like a few changes are needed then players less likely to come.
Stay up quite comfortably, looking solid probably makes the powers that be think we are ok, no need to push transfers or stretch the budget and not much needs to be done unless the absolute perfect opportunity comes up.
There will be a window where 2 or 3 first teamers need replacing at once.
All the talk of this being our strongest ever squad, and most quality bench we've had, but being honest, theres not many you can argue are first team quality should 2 or 3 players leave or tail off form due to age/injury.
I can see big money being spent in the next 2 windows to the tune if 50m+
I think SD and the board realise this too.
I dont think itll ever be 5 or 6, if that's the case, we will have probably been relegated and a overhaul required anyway.BOYSIE31 wrote:Just wait until we have to replace 5 or 6 of the first team all at once - now that will be fun and £50 million ?? Not a chance.
You just can’t answer the question can you ?BOYSIE31 wrote:I am not saying he hasnt done well that is obvious but his downfall is his transfer policy.
But other clubs can afford one or two mistakes but little ole Burnley cant afford 8.
Firthy wrote:Defence and GK positions are OK so midfiled and up front should be our priority.
Not knowing our budget but based on previous windows and comments here's my list.
Bowen - Hull
Watkins - Brentford
Pearson - PNE
Brownhill - Bristol City
Eze - QPR but probably go to a bigger club than us.
Yeah I agree, Brentford have been an intriguing team for a few years now. Clearly very good at unearthing players with sell-on value and play open, attractive football. One week they'll lose 4-0 and the next they'll win 4-0! A very different animal to Burnley under Dyche which makes me wonder if any of their flair players would fit into our system...TVC15 wrote:Good suggestions. I like Brentford - they seem to have the beating of any team in the league when they turn up. Saw them against Leeds at the back end of last season and they played them off the park.
So what do you want this jan or next summer ???TVC15 wrote:You just can’t answer the question can you ?
Which club has made less mistakes than Burnley ?
Like I said before - explaining our financial results to you would be a waste of time. If we “can’t afford” these mistakes as you put it how come we are posting such healthy profits every year ?
If you want to see some real transfer mistakes take a look at the likes of Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Fulham, Stoke, Spurs, Palace, United, Leicester etc
We are talking hundreds of millions of pounds of failed transfers.
It’s irrelevant whether these clubs can afford these or not - we all live within our means and whoever is backing the clubs. Nobody goes out to deliberately make mistakes when signing players.
£50m or £250m wastage - it’s all relative. For ever and a day only a certain percentage of signings work out. £10m on Vydra now is no more than the £1m we spent on Ian Moore many years ago when you look at the difference in revenue we are generating now and back then. The difference now is that we can actually afford it because of our success - it’s unavoidable but the only thing that matters is our overall position not individual transfers.
Jakubs Tash wrote:Yeah I agree, Brentford have been an intriguing team for a few years now. Clearly very good at unearthing players with sell-on value and play open, attractive football. One week they'll lose 4-0 and the next they'll win 4-0! A very different animal to Burnley under Dyche which makes me wonder if any of their flair players would fit into our system...
If that was the case then surely we wouldn't have been able to do as well as we did in the second half of last season.jojomk1 wrote:Other teams strengthened so we, in reality, fell back hence our low position last season.
jojomk1 wrote:A reasoned argument TVC15 in terms of financial spend
However,I think one of the frustrations about our overall transfer policy is that we have not improved the starting 11 for over two years now (4 windows)
2017/18 saw us bring in Wood, Cork and Taylor - we also brought in some very average players (Wells, Walters, Lennon and Bardsley)
But yes, we did have our "Leicester" year and finished 7th. But also, a good bit of that was down to the really poor standard of other teams that year (you have to look at things realistically and not with Claret glasses on, as some people still keep harping on about)
2018/19 saw us bring in Vydra, Gibson, Hart and Crouch
For the last two years the only positives being lauded are that we have improved our squad in depth but nobody has come into the first team with impact.
The exception, before people shout, has been McNeil, but he was already here and I doubt we would have seen this young man for some time if it were not for the fact that we started the 2018/19 season with all wide men injured
Other teams strengthened so we, in reality, fell back hence our low position last season
We haven't strengthened the starting 11 again this summer when almost all other teams have, so we will have a fight on our hands again
Look also at the ages of most of the players mentioned above - not many have much of a shelf life left in them
A net spend over the last two years of around £30m is not chicken feed but also probably one of the lowest of any club in the league
Dyche clearly puts a big part of his own recruitment policy on "experience" - just hope this doesn't backfire
I still think we will survive (only just) but recruitment policy has to improve greatly
Have you ever been to a single youth team game?BOYSIE31 wrote:They have a cracking scouting network - we dont
A season lasts 38 games I thinkSpijed wrote:If that was the case then surely we wouldn't have been able to do as well as we did in the second half of last season.
So which other teams strengthened to our detriment then?jojomk1 wrote:A season lasts 38 games I think
Based on your theory we should be in the top 4-6 now
Too many to listSpijed wrote:So which other teams strengthened to our detriment then?
Again, your argument doesn't make sense. After gaining just 12 points from the first 19 matches whilst other teams had stronger squads than us there is no way in the world that we would have been able to survive last season by making up the difference!jojomk1 wrote:Too many to list
But I'll give you a small clue - anyone who has started this year with any players better than last
And please don't throw Eric Pieters back at me
I agree with quite a lot of what you have said but as you know the reality of trying to get transfers over the line is just a lot more complex.jojomk1 wrote:A reasoned argument TVC15 in terms of financial spend
However,I think one of the frustrations about our overall transfer policy is that we have not improved the starting 11 for over two years now (4 windows)
2017/18 saw us bring in Wood, Cork and Taylor - we also brought in some very average players (Wells, Walters, Lennon and Bardsley)
But yes, we did have our "Leicester" year and finished 7th. But also, a good bit of that was down to the really poor standard of other teams that year (you have to look at things realistically and not with Claret glasses on, as some people still keep harping on about)
2018/19 saw us bring in Vydra, Gibson, Hart and Crouch
For the last two years the only positives being lauded are that we have improved our squad in depth but nobody has come into the first team with impact.
The exception, before people shout, has been McNeil, but he was already here and I doubt we would have seen this young man for some time if it were not for the fact that we started the 2018/19 season with all wide men injured
Other teams strengthened so we, in reality, fell back hence our low position last season
We haven't strengthened the starting 11 again this summer when almost all other teams have, so we will have a fight on our hands again
Look also at the ages of most of the players mentioned above - not many have much of a shelf life left in them
A net spend over the last two years of around £30m is not chicken feed but also probably one of the lowest of any club in the league
Dyche clearly puts a big part of his own recruitment policy on "experience" - just hope this doesn't backfire
I still think we will survive (only just) but recruitment policy has to improve greatly
Several reasons. Our squad was younger and fresher 4 years ago and other teams have flopped around us. You could argue that we have regressed the last year or 2.Spijed wrote:If that's the case why are we still in the Prem after four seasons?
Release (or sell) :BOYSIE31 wrote:So what do you want this jan or next summer ???
Spijed wrote:Have you ever been to a single youth team game?
A fairly obvious answer.
TVC15 wrote:Release (or sell) :
Lennon
Brady
Bardsley
Vydra
Wells
Hart
Possibly 1 or 2 of Gibson, Long and Dunne.
Buy :
new right back - better than Lowton
new centre midfielder
New wide players
New centre forward
New centre back(S)
Net spend of between £30m and £50m over the 2 transfer windows. I’d hope we could get at least £15m back from the players sold so that’s a gross spend of between £45m and £65m.
No point naming players - that’s SDs job...but I’d want at least 3 or 4 of the new players as good enough to get into the first eleven (the right back, centre mid, winger and forward).
It would be hard to achieve the above on the levels of spend I think we can afford but if we went for that I am not going to criticise the club if the signings don’t work out as if me or anyone else on this messageboard think they are better judge of player than Dyche they are deluded.
Hard to argue with that, but surely we'd have been better trying to gradually improve the starting 11? As you say next summer we're now looking at needing 3 players who are good enough to walk into our team. Given the difficulties we have in the transfer market it's hard to see that happening.TVC15 wrote:Release (or sell) :
Lennon
Brady
Bardsley
Vydra
Wells
Hart
Possibly 1 or 2 of Gibson, Long and Dunne.
Buy :
new right back - better than Lowton
new centre midfielder
New wide players
New centre forward
New centre back(S)
Net spend of between £30m and £50m over the 2 transfer windows. I’d hope we could get at least £15m back from the players sold so that’s a gross spend of between £45m and £65m.
No point naming players - that’s SDs job...but I’d want at least 3 or 4 of the new players as good enough to get into the first eleven (the right back, centre mid, winger and forward).
It would be hard to achieve the above on the levels of spend I think we can afford but if we went for that I am not going to criticise the club if the signings don’t work out as if me or anyone else on this messageboard think they are better judge of player than Dyche they are deluded.
Well maybe next year. Would be surprised if CP pick up that option...Jakubclaret wrote:He’s on a 1 year loan deal & they’ve got the option to buy.
No I haven’t - a lot of these players are either at the end of contract or in the case of Vydra and Gibson going into their last year of contract and we might have a chance of recouping some money if they haven’t broke into the team (which is looking less likely).BOYSIE31 wrote:Bloody hell you have changed your tune - you on my wavelength now
TVC15 wrote:No I haven’t - a lot of these players are either at the end of contract or in the case of Vydra and Gibson going into their last year of contract and we might have a chance of recouping some money if they haven’t broke into the team (which is looking less likely).
Unlike you I understand why we can’t bring these new players in when others are in contract and we are still paying them big wages.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that the likes of Hart, Brady and Lennon have not done enough to be offered new contracts and I doubt any of those 3 are on much less than £2m a year in wages.
Bardsley is back end of his career but Lowton’s form in the last 12 or 18 months has been too inconsistent and we need to improve in this position....if Lowton regained his form then this would not be up there as a priority position for me in the next 2 windows (as in someone who could walk into first team)
We ain’t on the same wavelength at all because even if we got what I wanted it does not mean the new signings will be guaranteed to work out. I’d accept that - you very clearly wouldn’t !!
The only guarantee is that at some point we will he relegated - just like the other 46 or so other clubs that have been relegated in the last 30 years.
Yep we know your point - and as I said it’s about as valid a point as saying we should win games rather than lose them !!BOYSIE31 wrote:So my point is why get them in the first place ????????
TVC15 wrote:Yep we know your point - and as I said it’s about as valid a point as saying we should win games rather than lose them !!
If you are going to make the same useless point time and time again there is no point entering into any kind of conversation with you.
You’ve been asked several times to name a team with a better record in the market than us in terms of the fewest transfer mistakes and you can’t. And there is a reason you can’t.
TVC15 wrote:Yep we know your point - and as I said it’s about as valid a point as saying we should win games rather than lose them !!
If you are going to make the same useless point time and time again there is no point entering into any kind of conversation with you.
You’ve been asked several times to name a team with a better record in the market than us in terms of the fewest transfer mistakes and you can’t. And there is a reason you can’t.
Wolves? Have you seen how rich their owners are?BOYSIE31 wrote:Wolves /sheff utd
I already said excluding Sheff United who have been in the league for a few weeks.BOYSIE31 wrote:Wolves /sheff utd
I fear you are going to be incredibly disappointedMACCA wrote:IMO we are due a window where 2 or 3 quality players come in for circa 50m.
I thought that would be last summer, however for various reasons it wasn't to be.
We are in a catch 22, finish the season just about staying up and looking like a few changes are needed then players less likely to come.
Stay up quite comfortably, looking solid probably makes the powers that be think we are ok, no need to push transfers or stretch the budget and not much needs to be done unless the absolute perfect opportunity comes up.
There will be a window where 2 or 3 first teamers need replacing at once.
All the talk of this being our strongest ever squad, and most quality bench we've had, but being honest, theres not many you can argue are first team quality should 2 or 3 players leave or tail off form due to age/injury.
I can see big money being spent in the next 2 windows to the tune if 50m+
I think SD and the board realise this too.
I think you're being a bit extreme. Brentford's scouting network has been quite good for them, yes. But they are still a mid table Championship team. If they were unearthing all of these amazing players they should really be ripping it up. They're not.BOYSIE31 wrote:They have a cracking scouting network - we dont
Mentioned on the other thread we could do a lot worse than looking at some of those Slavia lads. Holding their own in a very tough Champions league group. Think it was pretty much their team that outplayed England last month as well.ZizkovClaret wrote:I had said Soucek from Slavia Prague in previous windows, and got dismissed . He's playing pretty well against Barca tonight, which probably now puts him out of our price range...