this is how good this boy is

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pushpinpussy
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this is how good this boy is

Post by pushpinpussy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:06 pm

McNeil (four) is one of just three teenagers to assist at least four goals in Europe's big five leagues this season, alongside Borussia Dortmund's Jadon Sancho (five) and Parma's Dejan Kulusevski (five).

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Pimlico_Claret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:10 pm

Shush!!!! We need to keep him.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by 4:20 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:35 pm

50m+, if he carries on this trajectory he's going to be approaching what we make in a season if a bidding war happens

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:40 pm

That ball in for Wood’s goal which was ruled out was unreal.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by claretnproud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:46 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:That ball in for Wood’s goal which was ruled out was unreal.
I could have scored that the ball was so direct and precise
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:54 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:That ball in for Wood’s goal which was ruled out was unreal.
THE moment of the match even though the goal ended up being ruled out. Sensational.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:10 pm

Possibly his best game yet. That fist half was fantastic.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by mdd2 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:11 pm

The VAR guy should be ashamed of himself
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:19 pm

He's a bit older than four isn't he?

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Shame that goal didn't stand.

He was virtually on the touchline when he put over that beaut. Cross of the season.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:23 pm

mdd2 wrote:The VAR guy should be ashamed of himself
How come? Genuine question because I’ve not seen any of the action since leaving the game.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Juan Tanamera » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:26 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:That ball in for Wood’s goal which was ruled out was unreal.
That was possibly the best cross I've seen since the likes of Dave Thomas and Ralph Coates were firing them in for Andy Lochhead and Co.
Tragic that it was cancelled out.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:27 pm

Rileybobs wrote:How come? Genuine question because I’ve not seen any of the action since leaving the game.

Someone told me that Wood's breath was offside.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:31 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Someone told me that Wood's breath was offside.
I suppose if you breathed hard enough you could score with your breath, so fair cop.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I suppose if you breathed hard enough you could score with your breath, so fair cop.

They took long enough to get to a decision, so I reckon it's another b0llocks one.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by dougcollins » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:37 pm

mdd2 wrote:The VAR guy should be ashamed of himself
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that Mason ruled against us. l bet he couldn't wait.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:They took long enough to get to a decision, so I reckon it's another b0llocks one.
The time taken was ridiculous. And why after every goal did the referee wait in the other half and assume that the goal was going to be ruled out? Why not start walking to the centre spot and let VAR review the goal in that time period?

After the own goal he allowed West Ham to set up for a free kick in their box.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by dsr » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:38 pm

mdd2 wrote:The VAR guy should be ashamed of himself
The VAR men have been told that although the technology isn't there to judge offside to the inch, they have to pretend that it is. So if they can find a frame somewhere near the right moment that shows offside, then offside.

I don't know what they are told about how to pick which frame they look at. Or even if they consider that. Someone must be deciding which frame is nearer to the moment the ball is kicked, but I don't know who that is.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by dsr » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:39 pm

Rileybobs wrote:The time taken was ridiculous. And why after every goal did the referee wait in the other half and assume that the goal was going to be ruled out? Why not start walking to the centre spot and let VAR review the goal in that time period?

After the own goal he allowed West Ham to set up for a free kick in their box.
The ref stays put until the decision is made so that the crowd know that the goal hasn't been confirmed yet.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by bobinho » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:40 pm

VAR rules state that when goals are scored, the governing phrase to rule it out is “a clear and obvious mistake by the referee”

Can someone please explain to me how that is relevant in this instance?

A few inches of foot, or shoulder is neither clear nor obvious.

Woods goal from McNeils wonderful cross was absolutely sublime, and it’s disgraceful that it should be ruled out.

If That sort of thing is going to be a regular occurrence, lets save the PL a fortune and get rid of linesmen altogether. In or out of play is irrelevant really so pointless keeping them on.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:41 pm

dsr wrote:The ref stays put until the decision is made so that the crowd know that the goal hasn't been confirmed yet.
Didn’t seem to be the case at Villa when the ref seemed to be at the halfway line with both teams lined up to kick off.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:44 pm

bobinho wrote:VAR rules state that when goals are scored, the governing phrase to rule it out is “a clear and obvious mistake by the referee”

Can someone please explain to me how that is relevant in this instance?

A few inches of foot, or shoulder is neither clear nor obvious.

Woods goal from McNeils wonderful cross was absolutely sublime, and it’s disgraceful that it should be ruled out.

If That sort of thing is going to be a regular occurrence, lets save the PL a fortune and get rid of linesmen altogether. In or out of play is irrelevant really so pointless keeping them on.
Clear and obvious does not apply to offside decisions. Offside decisions are black and white, although they can only be determined by the technology available which obviously carries a margin of error. By the same token, goal line technology will also carry a margin of error.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Lord Beamish » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:54 pm

David Beckham would’ve gladly put his name to that cross. It was perfect.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Claretmatt4 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:58 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Clear and obvious does not apply to offside decisions. Offside decisions are black and white, although they can only be determined by the technology available which obviously carries a margin of error. By the same token, goal line technology will also carry a margin of error.
Surely the goal line tech has no error margin, its fully operated by computers and has a chip in the ball and sensors on the goal frame.

VAR requires a fallible human to get involved, that's when things go tits up

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 pm

He was sensational at times today, and that cross was absolutely amazing.

However, by the batshit mental offsides being given by VAR this season, that one was pretty clear.

Still one of the best crosses I've ever seen though

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by BOYSIE31 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 pm

Rileybobs wrote:How come? Genuine question because I’ve not seen any of the action since leaving the game.
The offside was his arm

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:Surely the goal line tech has no error margin, its fully operated by computers and has a chip in the ball and sensors on the goal frame.

VAR requires a fallible human to get involved, that's when things go tits up
There has to be a margin of error. It may be 1mm, it may be 10mm but goal line technology cannot be 100% accurate.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:01 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:The offside was his arm
Not sure I believe that.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by dsr » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He was sensational at times today, and that cross was absolutely amazing.

However, by the batshit mental offsides being given by VAR this season, that one was pretty clear.

Still one of the best crosses I've ever seen though
I wouldn't call it clear. The laws don't even establish what "when the ball is played" means. Is it:

1. When the boot first touches the ball.
2. When the ball leaves contact with the boot.
3. Throughout the whole process of playing the ball.
4. At any time during the playing of the ball.

Until they get that established, they can't judge offside to the inch.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:13 pm

dsr wrote:I wouldn't call it clear. The laws don't even establish what "when the ball is played" means. Is it:

1. When the boot first touches the ball.
2. When the ball leaves contact with the boot.
3. Throughout the whole process of playing the ball.
4. At any time during the playing of the ball.

Until they get that established, they can't judge offside to the inch.
Ok, but consider the mad offsides that have been given this season.

What was that?

Not even in the top ten of daft VAR offsides.

And Wood had no business being offside there.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by MT03ALG » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:16 pm

The cross for the VAR goal was one of the best crosses I have seen in my 60 years of watching BFC

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Damo » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:40 pm

That cross was unreal.
Dunno about the offside. I'll have to look later on MOTD.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:41 pm

Damo wrote:That cross was unreal.
Dunno about the offside. I'll have to look later on MOTD.
The cross was the best I've seen

I'm gutted that it was ruled out, as it would have been on highlight reels of "how to cross" for years.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Murger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:48 pm

A good a cross as you'll ever see. Brilliant. Just a shame the dogshit VAR ruined it.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:03 pm

bobinho wrote:VAR rules state that when goals are scored, the governing phrase to rule it out is “a clear and obvious mistake by the referee”

Can someone please explain to me how that is relevant in this instance?

A few inches of foot, or shoulder is neither clear nor obvious.

Woods goal from McNeils wonderful cross was absolutely sublime, and it’s disgraceful that it should be ruled out.

If That sort of thing is going to be a regular occurrence, lets save the PL a fortune and get rid of linesmen altogether. In or out of play is irrelevant really so pointless keeping them on.
bobinho --you will be pleased to know that FIFA are experimenting in the hope of getting rid of the Assistant Referees and using technology for ball in and out of play and offside decisions. Whoopee!

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:12 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Possibly his best game yet. That fist half was fantastic.
Fully agree....took the p*** today, megs and everything else.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by bobinho » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:29 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Clear and obvious does not apply to offside decisions. Offside decisions are black and white, although they can only be determined by the technology available which obviously carries a margin of error. By the same token, goal line technology will also carry a margin of error.
But there was no offside decision. The Lino didn’t flag for it, the ref didn’t give it. There had to be a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. There wasn’t a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. If games are to be reffed from the studio, let’s bin the refs and the linos altogether. They are clearly not needed.
Lampards England goal v ze Germans was a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee and VAR would sort that out. There was nothing to sort out today as there wasn’t a “clear and obvious” mistake.

To disallow the goal, there must’ve been a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. Anyone outside the VAR room see that?

Didn’t think so...
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm

bobinho wrote:But there was no offside decision. The Lino didn’t flag for it, the ref didn’t give it. There had to be a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. There wasn’t a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. If games are to be reffed from the studio, let’s bin the refs and the linos altogether. They are clearly not needed.
Lampards England goal v ze Germans was a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee and VAR would sort that out. There was nothing to sort out today as there wasn’t a “clear and obvious” mistake.

To disallow the goal, there must’ve been a “clear and obvious” mistake by the referee. Anyone outside the VAR room see that?

Didn’t think so...
But offside is considered a clear and obvious mistake - in that he’s either offside or he’s not. And the pictures showed that he was offside. It’s not a subjective decision, it’s a clear and obvious, black and white decision. Like the ball crossing the goal line by an inch.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:37 pm

As has been said several times, 'clear and obvious' doesn't apply to offside calls. From the Premier League website:
factual decisions such as offsides, and the issue of whether a player is inside or outside the penalty area, are not subject to the "clear and obvious" test

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by bobinho » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:43 pm

Who decides if VAR is to be used? Is it used for every goal? Why was it used today in this instance? Is very offside/not offside/ pass forward scrutinised?

When it’s THAT close, why is it “clear and obvious”?

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:49 pm

bobinho wrote:Who decides if VAR is to be used? Is it used for every goal? Why was it used today in this instance? Is very offside/not offside/ pass forward scrutinised?

When it’s THAT close, why is it “clear and obvious”?
VAR checks every goal as far as I know.

Clear and obvious doesn’t come into play because the decision is considered factual. ie. he’s either definitely offside or he’s definitely onside. It doesn’t matter how offside or onside a player is.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by ClaretLoup » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:54 pm

Never mind VAR. That cross was a thing of beauty and the definition of the word pearler.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by bobinho » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:57 pm

Rileybobs wrote:VAR checks every goal as far as I know.

Clear and obvious doesn’t come into play because the decision is considered factual. ie. he’s either definitely offside or he’s definitely onside. It doesn’t matter how offside or onside a player is.
Ok, fair enough. If VAR checks every goal, why don’t we get to know it?
To me, the clear and obvious mistake part is the reason VAR is brought into play, not the reason to give us a clear and obvious answer. Hence my argument that there wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake at the time. No one questioned it, WHU players didn’t mob the referee asking him to take a look. I get that he WAS offside by a fraction, as you rightly point out it’s factual rather than subjective, but it’s the reason why (namely the use of the phrase “clear and obvious” because at the time it’s neither) that I’m struggling with.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:58 pm

bobinho wrote:Ok, fair enough. If VAR checks every goal, why don’t we get to know it?
To me, the clear and obvious mistake part is the reason VAR is brought into play, not the reason to give us a clear and obvious answer. Hence my argument that there wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake at the time. No one questioned it, WHU players didn’t mob the referee asking him to take a look. I get that he WAS offside by a fraction, as you rightly point out it’s factual rather than subjective, but it’s the reason why (namely the use of the phrase “clear and obvious” because at the time it’s neither) that I’m struggling with.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty to not like about VAR. Just pointing out how offsides are determined.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by dsr » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:09 am

bobinho wrote:Ok, fair enough. If VAR checks every goal, why don’t we get to know it?
To me, the clear and obvious mistake part is the reason VAR is brought into play, not the reason to give us a clear and obvious answer. Hence my argument that there wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake at the time. No one questioned it, WHU players didn’t mob the referee asking him to take a look. I get that he WAS offside by a fraction, as you rightly point out it’s factual rather than subjective, but it’s the reason why (namely the use of the phrase “clear and obvious” because at the time it’s neither) that I’m struggling with.
To be strictly accurate, according to the MotD picture, he was in an offside position when the ball was about a foot away from McNeil's foot - ie. a little while after the ball was played. They didn't offer any evidence as to where Wood was when the ball was played.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Claretmatt4 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:25 am

Wood was offside by a couple of inches. Defo offside.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by lesxdp » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:26 am

How can a thread title of "this is how good this boy is" become nothing more than another debate on VAR.
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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by ClaretLoup » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:36 am

Indeed Les its like discussing the Mona Lisa and talking about the frame.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by bobinho » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:23 am

lesxdp wrote:How can a thread title of "this is how good this boy is" become nothing more than another debate on VAR.
Suppose it’s akin to watching YouTube...

You start off watching McGregor v Diaz, and ten minutes later you are watching Nadia from bake off decorating a cake.

It’s the consistency of her icing that I’m particularly impressed with. She ALWAYS seems to get it spot on every time.

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Re: this is how good this boy is

Post by Hipper » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:13 am

Juan Tanamera wrote:That was possibly the best cross I've seen since the likes of Dave Thomas and Ralph Coates were firing them in for Andy Lochhead and Co.
Tragic that it was cancelled out.
I thought Wade Elliott had the knack for good crossing too.
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