creepingdeath wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:12 am

Waiting for the first “anyone else underwhelmed by this brownhill signing”......

Who’s your money on?

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:40 am

I wonder if our recruitment team will get any credit for this deal (should it happen)?

Midfielder.
Good age.
Leader.
The foresight to replace Hendrick before he most probably leaves.
Using Wells whilst his stock is high as a make-weight to encourage Bristol City to deal.
Selling Wells at a value that means we don't have to pay anything to Huddersfield.

I'm not saying that our recruitment is amazing and that we don't require any further additions....but maybe they have done well on this deal.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:36 am

It doesn't take Sherlock to see weve compromised on Wells' value - to release the deal for Brownhill, and in the process effectively shared between BFC and BCFC the value that would have otherwise gone to Huddersfield under their sell on. "Up to" 10m for Brownhill presumably means significantly less up front with the balance depending on appearances, survival etc. It all sounds like good business to me.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:13 am

I’m looking forward to seeing Brownhill in a Claret shirt

At first, I accept that I may need to wait until the 89th minute to do so

TVC15 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:10 am

I don’t care about the structure of the deal. Its affordable and within our current wage bill / transfer budgets.

Main thing is that we have got in a new midfielder that looks a good player and we have got rid of a player who was further away from the team than Vydra !

None of us know the exact details of the deal so best to just be happy with the signing

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:51 am

Tbh I'm not Exactly "overwhelmed"

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:14 pm

I'm disappointed with the cash figures being mentioned though. £4m for Wells is extremely cheap, given that we paid £10m for Jay in the Summer ( who is of a similar age, and had a less impressive goal scoring record for last season, when you take out the soft penalties ). £6m less, in the window that carries a price premium for " on form " strikers, is very low. Especially, when you consider the difference Nahki could make to Bristol City in terms of a promotion push and the lucrative benefits that would accompany promotion.

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:14 pm

Relieved to see one this moving towards completion. We couldn't go into the final stretch with only three midfielders.

Brownhill is a good player who will offer us some interesting new tactical options going forward. The fact that we might actually sign a player with holding value and the potential to increase in value is also welcome.

The addition of Brownhill will also allow us to break up the strangle hold that Cork and Westwood have enjoyed on the central midfield slots. Hendrick has frequently been asked to play up front or out on the right, which aren't his natural or preferred positions. He was the best candidate from our limited options, noble enough to put the team ahead of his own preferences and courageous enough to shoulder the abuse that accompanied playing out of position.

Hopefully, the arrival of Brownhill will give Hendrick more opportunities to play in the middle of the pitch which could benefit us. Signing Hendrick up to a new deal would be the midfield icing on the cake for this window. He is a hugely under rated player and a very important one for us. As time moves on that looks less and less likely, which would put us back to square one for the Summer and leave us heavily out of pocket. Losing Hendrick on a free transfer to another team, when we could have sold him, will also raise questions about our transfer strategy. We can't afford to let valuable players leave for nothing.

Wells going the other way is a nice move for the player and both clubs.

I'm disappointed with the cash figures being mentioned though. £4m for Wells is extremely cheap, given that we paid £10m for Jay in the Summer ( who is of a similar age, and had a less impressive goal scoring record for last season, when you take out the soft penalties ). £6m less, in the window that carries a price premium for " on form " strikers, is very low. Especially, when you consider the difference Nahki could make to Bristol City in terms of a promotion push and the lucrative benefits that would accompany promotion.

£10m was a top whack price for Brownhill, given his contract clause.

Happy with the swap, but it seems like Bristol stuck to their guns and held out for the best price they could get for Brownhill while we dropped our asking price for Wells. Stringing things along until QPR and Forrest pulled out probably didn't help our negotiating hand.

Then again, the figures being quoted are by the media. Hopefully, they are wrong and we played our fairly strong hand better.

Ticking the box for a fourth midfielder is a relief. Although I wouldn't call this window a success for the recruitment team if that is all we do. I don't buy into the media story of a " dry window ". Other teams are spending less ( because one or two transfers from the big teams can radically adjust the cash total and they are promoting more from within ), but that is just a figure. It doesn't reflect on the business that could be done.

The Winter window has never been susceptible to the domino effect. It has always been more about picking up hidden gems and spotting under the radar opportunities. Teams that are heavily focussed on headline grabbing players, and the obvious statistical front runners, will struggle to do business in the Winter window. Those players are going nowhere and if they do the price premium attached to them will be excessive. Getting something out of the Winter window requires quality recruitment, which goes beyond rudimentary cream skimming, but it can be done.

The fact that the entirety of our business in this window might revolve around an opportunity that dropped into our lap is very concerning. We can't rely on lady luck to keep stepping up to the plate to do our job for us.

It isn't done until we see the shirt holding photos.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:16 pm

I know I love a moan now and again but are people really moaning about this deal?

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:24 pm

You know, the danger is that people think you know more than you do and assume that the above is accurate.

WestMidsClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Pot kettle black.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:24 pm

You know, the danger is that people think you know more than you do and assume that the above is accurate.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:24 pm

Your conclusions on the negotiations - that Bristol City have got their cake (Wells) and eaten it (Brownhill) are wild and not substantiated by anything. It involves repeating a number (£10 million) which has been quoted as the maximum final price for Brownhill and recasting it as the actual amount we're paying now. There are suggestions around online that the up front cost of Brownhill is £6 million and the rest is based on results.

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:14 pm

Then again, the figures being quoted are by the media. Hopefully, they are wrong and we played our fairly strong hand better.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:24 pm

Your insinuation that the only reason we've done any business this window is "because something fell into our lap" is similarly lacking in substantiation. The most reasonable conclusion is that we were in the market for various options in midfield (Dyche has been very clear about wanting 2 players in each position and apart from anything else, we've also been linked with Allen), but we pursued this one because (i) he was a preferred target and (ii) there was a realistic chance of doing the deal because of Wells. That's not luck at all.

If it goes through, it looks as though we've brought in a good player, at a good time, who is a good age, as part of an overall financial deal involving Wells that is good for Burnley. The mealy mouthed "well its a start but the club got lucky and overpaid" line is poor form and needs to be called out in the interests of accuracy.

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:36 pm

I did address that.



In realtion to



I think our overall strategy of not looking to do much in this window was clearly communicated to us by the club. And the circumstances surrounding a Brownhill for Wells deal were incredible fortuitous on a number of fronts.

Drinkwater unexpectedly left
Wells played superbly for QPR
Brownhill had a realese clause
Bristol City are pushing for promotion
Bristol City needed a striker
We needed a midfielder

The stars really did align for us and Bristol City on this one. That isn't planning and foresight, it is luck ( apart from the performance of Nahki at QPR ).

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:36 pm

I did address that.



In realtion to



I think our overall strategy of not looking to do much in this window was clearly communicated to us by the club. And the circumstances surrounding a Brownhill for Wells deal were incredible fortuitous on a number of fronts.

Drinkwater unexpectedly left
Wells played superbly for QPR
Brownhill had a realese clause
Bristol City are pushing for promotion
Bristol City needed a striker
We needed a midfielder

The stars really did align for us and Bristol City on this one. That isn't planning and foresight, it is luck ( apart from the performance of Nahki at QPR ).

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:54 pm

Wells was a poor signing in the first instance, as said by myself and plenty of others at the time.

For us to get our money back (near enough) three years on with the guy nearing 30, after ONE good half season (his loan last season he was pretty rubbish?) is fantastic business.

The fact we have managed to get a long term target in part exchange (Brownhill was scouted as a teenager at Preston by Dyche, in fact I think it may have made the nationals at the time) makes it even better business. We have got rid of someone we didn't want anymore and improved our midfield reserves. I think, from what I have seen of the player, he will get into our first eleven sooner rather than later and he also begins the much needed process of lowering the average age of our squad.

A great first step by the on field team in re-energising our squad.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:50 pm

I think the problem is we need abit of an overhaul and the January window isn’t the place to really sell or buy players because of the overall lack of business.

I said the other day Brady Lennon Lowton Gibson Wells Hart Vydra need shipping out to free up funds and allow for a little more wiggle room in the wage budget while adding genuine first 11 players. I’m bored of us wasting funds on players like Wells Vydra etc. I would rather wait to get the right players in while recouping as much funds as possible.

taio wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm

With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to reach conclusions about wasting funds. But the reality is we need a strong squad and it has just so happened that a lack of injuries has severely restricted the opportunity for fringe players. But if there had been injuries in key positions without good cover Dyche would have been severely criticised by the same people. Gibson being a prime example which I maintain was an astute signing at the time.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:21 pm

All gone a bit quiet on Gibson? For what it's worth I think he'll stay till summer and then leave on a permanent deal.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:09 pm

But even with injuries, was Wells ever likely to be good enough? many on here at the time didn’t think so. In my opinion I’d like to see us sign first team ready players and use the current squad as replacements. £15M on a 3rd choice defender was never an astute signing really regardless of how good I believe Gibson is.

Continuing to sign fringe players on big wages isn’t a smart strategy imo, instead of signing Bardsley as back up to Lowton id have liked to see us sign a replacement for Lowton and make Lowton the back up fringe player.

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:36 pm

I think our overall strategy of not looking to do much in this window was clearly communicated to us by the club.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:34 pm

There was also the question of Mee not re-signing too when we signed Gibson if I recall.

Long Time Lurker wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:14 pm

Relieved to see one this moving towards completion. We couldn't go into the final stretch with only three midfielders.

Brownhill is a good player who will offer us some interesting new tactical options going forward. The fact that we might actually sign a player with holding value and the potential to increase in value is also welcome.

The addition of Brownhill will also allow us to break up the strangle hold that Cork and Westwood have enjoyed on the central midfield slots. Hendrick has frequently been asked to play up front or out on the right, which aren't his natural or preferred positions. He was the best candidate from our limited options, noble enough to put the team ahead of his own preferences and courageous enough to shoulder the abuse that accompanied playing out of position.

Hopefully, the arrival of Brownhill will give Hendrick more opportunities to play in the middle of the pitch which could benefit us. Signing Hendrick up to a new deal would be the midfield icing on the cake for this window. He is a hugely under rated player and a very important one for us. As time moves on that looks less and less likely, which would put us back to square one for the Summer and leave us heavily out of pocket. Losing Hendrick on a free transfer to another team, when we could have sold him, will also raise questions about our transfer strategy. We can't afford to let valuable players leave for nothing.

Wells going the other way is a nice move for the player and both clubs.

I'm disappointed with the cash figures being mentioned though. £4m for Wells is extremely cheap, given that we paid £10m for Jay in the Summer ( who is of a similar age, and had a less impressive goal scoring record for last season, when you take out the soft penalties ). £6m less, in the window that carries a price premium for " on form " strikers, is very low. Especially, when you consider the difference Nahki could make to Bristol City in terms of a promotion push and the lucrative benefits that would accompany promotion.

£10m was a top whack price for Brownhill, given his contract clause.

Happy with the swap, but it seems like Bristol stuck to their guns and held out for the best price they could get for Brownhill while we dropped our asking price for Wells. Stringing things along until QPR and Forrest pulled out probably didn't help our negotiating hand.

Then again, the figures being quoted are by the media. Hopefully, they are wrong and we played our fairly strong hand better.

Ticking the box for a fourth midfielder is a relief. Although I wouldn't call this window a success for the recruitment team if that is all we do. I don't buy into the media story of a " dry window ". Other teams are spending less ( because one or two transfers from the big teams can radically adjust the cash total and they are promoting more from within ), but that is just a figure. It doesn't reflect on the business that could be done.

The Winter window has never been susceptible to the domino effect. It has always been more about picking up hidden gems and spotting under the radar opportunities. Teams that are heavily focussed on headline grabbing players, and the obvious statistical front runners, will struggle to do business in the Winter window. Those players are going nowhere and if they do the price premium attached to them will be excessive. Getting something out of the Winter window requires quality recruitment, which goes beyond rudimentary cream skimming, but it can be done.

The fact that the entirety of our business in this window might revolve around an opportunity that dropped into our lap is very concerning. We can't rely on lady luck to keep stepping up to the plate to do our job for us.

It isn't done until we see the shirt holding photos.

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:59 am

Cant believe we are getting 4 million for Wells to be honest - thats a good deal