Hong Kong protests

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aggi
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Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:04 pm

I've not seen much mention of it on here. I've been following it on Telegram and this site https://hkmap.live/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; whilst out in HK.

It's a weird atmosphere. Bits are much quieter than normal, in part because a lot of the transport is disrupted, and other areas are as bustling as you'd expect. I walked past the edge of a blocked road earlier where black-clad, masked protesters were ripping up a bus stop to add to the barricade whilst plenty of people were just standing around watching. IN central you have people coming out during their lunch hour to protest.

Given the disparity in equipment it's amazing the protests have continued for so long. I'm not really sure how it's going to get resolved though, the two sides seem to be further apart than ever at the moment.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:03 pm

Currently watching from my window. Protesters trying to protect themselves from tear gas with umbrellas
rps20191117_220301.jpg
rps20191117_220301.jpg (88.61 KiB) Viewed 1960 times

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:55 pm

Unfortunately the sad end will be China will shut HK, all identified protesters will be shipped to mainland China and will disappear.
That’s the communist way.

I truly hope it does not happen, but I fear it will.
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Aclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:14 pm

The protesters should be careful, the Chinese don't fcuk about, remember Tiananmen Square.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by mdd2 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:39 pm

Surprised main land China has not taken over. They need to as the place seems to becoming ungovernable
Like it or lump it HK is part of China and the Chinese will sort it sooner or later

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:49 pm

mdd2 wrote:Surprised main land China has not taken over. They need to as the place seems to becoming ungovernable
Like it or lump it HK is part of China and the Chinese will sort it sooner or later
China have to be extraordinarily careful, the West is watching and looking for any excuse to condemn

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by levraiclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Aclaret wrote:The protesters should be careful, the Chinese don't fcuk about, remember Tiananmen Square.
I remember and feel that Hong Kong is facing a rock/hard place choice.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:10 pm

So if get what’s going to happen, why don’t they stop.

It’s not going to end well.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by levraiclaret » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:13 pm

mdd2 wrote:Surprised main land China has not taken over. They need to as the place seems to becoming ungovernable
Like it or lump it HK is part of China and the Chinese will sort it sooner or later
HK is only ungovernable due to the actions of the Chinese government. They contracted not to change the government of HK for 30 years from 1997
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by tarkys_ears » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:49 pm

Where are you Aggi?

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:China have to be extraordinarily careful, the West is watching and looking for any excuse to condemn
Which is why China now pay people to beat up protesters instead of doing it themselves.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Stayingup » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:01 pm

levraiclaret wrote:HK is only ungovernable due to the actions of the Chinese government. They contracted not to change the government of HK for 30 years from 1997
True. It was agreed 'One country two systems'. The current trouble started with proposed extradition from HK to mainland China. The Chinese (army) has been remarkably disciplined during these protests. As mentioned above, the situation is under the microscope by much of the rest of the world so China is being cautious as part of its quest to endear itself to the world. A great power it is too.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:02 am

The trouble China has is partly that the rest of the world is looking on and wouldn't, in theory, countenance mainland intervention (although the question does have to be asked whether China cares and whether the rest of the world has the ability to react. You'd expect the UK and US to be at the forefront of any protests but both countries are in internal chaos at the moment).

The other issue is that this kind of interference would greatly damage the HK businesses, particularly the financial sector, etc.

I don't know what is going to happen though. I'm just down the road from the university where there have been pitched battles for the past week.

Image

I could see that ending very badly as the people trapped in there get desperate and there are more tales of police carrying rifles with live ammo.

In the business district you've still got people coming out to protest which then leads to riot police on the streets which isn't going to help business confidence at all.

Image

I passed 100 or so riot police on my way to work this morning and looking at the latest news it's going to be a circuitous route back to avoid the tear gas. My chinese colleague is understandably concerned and has steadfastly been sticking to speaking English to hide his origin.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:26 am

Having been in the office all day having come out it's definitely escalated near me today. After a lengthy route back from the client to avoid the worst of the tear gas (still ended up with burning eyes and a sore throat) I got back to my hotel to find an armoured car shooting tear gas at protesters who were throwing molotov cocktails. Whole swathes of road in the centre have been ripped up and blockaded.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by levraiclaret » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:36 pm

aggi wrote:Having been in the office all day having come out it's definitely escalated near me today. After a lengthy route back from the client to avoid the worst of the tear gas (still ended up with burning eyes and a sore throat) I got back to my hotel to find an armoured car shooting tear gas at protesters who were throwing molotov cocktails. Whole swathes of road in the centre have been ripped up and blockaded.
Take care and stay safe aggi
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Lord Beamish » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:07 pm

aggi wrote:Having been in the office all day having come out it's definitely escalated near me today. After a lengthy route back from the client to avoid the worst of the tear gas (still ended up with burning eyes and a sore throat) I got back to my hotel to find an armoured car shooting tear gas at protesters who were throwing molotov cocktails. Whole swathes of road in the centre have been ripped up and blockaded.
May you live in interesting times, mate.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:41 am

Cheers. It got pretty bad on Monday night with multiple armoured cars and water cannon:

Image

Image

It's calmed down a lot now that most of the people in the University have surrendered but I don't really know how it's going to get resolved in the long-term.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:10 pm

Well, looks like it's the beginning of the end for Hong Kong now https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53244862

Sad news and even at the best of times the UK would have had trouble contesting this. As it stands at the moment there was no way we were going to do anything major and I'm sure China knows that.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:15 pm

the world is going under at an alarming rate, 2020 is just short of a full blown nuclear war

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by FCBurnley » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:27 pm

End is nigh for one of the worlds great places. Glad I was able to go a few times before the inevitable happens. Get ready for Communist World Domination

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:33 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:49 pm
China have to be extraordinarily careful, the West is watching and looking for any excuse to condemn
Well past the point of giving a s**t the Chinese do what they want & that won't change.
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:38 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:33 pm
Well past the point of giving a s**t the Chinese do what they want & that won't change.
probably right, not helped by having the weakest president in the WH who is more interested in TV ratings

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:46 pm

Vegas, what can anybody in West do, honestly?

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Corky » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:00 pm

HK never belonged to us. We acted like arrogant, ignorant bullies (East India Company) making the current day Columbian and Mexican drug cartels look like a bunch of girl guides when we took it from China (Opium Wars). Is it any wonder that they do not really care what we think. I certainly wouldn't if I was in their shoes.
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:26 pm

Corky wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:00 pm
HK never belonged to us. We acted like arrogant, ignorant bullies (East India Company) making the current day Columbian and Mexican drug cartels look like a bunch of girl guides when we took it from China (Opium Wars). Is it any wonder that they do not really care what we think. I certainly wouldn't if I was in their shoes.
I think the issue is more that they don't care about what the people who live there think.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:37 pm

The Chinese don't care what anybody in the rest of the world thinks, not even their own people.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Corky » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:58 pm

If you want an insight into how China runs itself then try reading
We have been harmonised
Life in China's Surveillance State
By Kai Strittmatter

Makes you wonder why that falstaffian buffoon would allow them anywhere near our 5G system.

They have this pretence that they do not believe in gods but the CCP is really their god.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by KateR » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:53 pm

One of my favorite places ever, always enjoyed going and feel sorry for those involved and will not end well for the protesters I think.

As others have said take care aggi, is it a visit, how long will you be staying?

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Great that Boris has done the right thing and offered the Hong Kongese British citizenship. They should have had this offer in 1997.

Doing the right thing. This is what taking back control should look like: Global, moral, ethical and right.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:03 pm

Credit to the UK government, they've moved quickly to grant the BNOS swift passage to the UK if they so desire https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899

I'm not really sure what else they can do, although this should raise even more question marks over the Huawei involvement in our 5G network.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:16 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:00 pm
Doing the right thing. This is what taking back control should look like: Global, moral, ethical and right.
Would the EU have stopped us then?

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:16 pm
Would the EU have stopped using then?
We couldn't control EU immigration so it was politically much trickier to do so.

When you have full control of your immigration system you can control the decisions you make.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:20 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 pm
We couldn't control EU immigration so it was politically much trickier to do so.

When you have full control of your immigration system you can control the decisions you make.
Is it 3 million people that are eligible?

Can't see that going down well with the people who voted for Brexit solely on the basis of keeping "foreigners" out!

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:26 pm

You can see it how you like, fidel.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:28 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:26 pm
You can see it how you like, fidel.
I won't lose any sleep, but this is not why some working class people voted tory for the first time, last December!

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:30 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:28 pm
I won't lose any sleep, but this is not why some working class people voted tory for the first time, last December!
There was no a single reason why people voted Brexit. Correct.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:33 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:30 pm
There was no a single reason why people voted Brexit. Correct.
Agreed, but I bet we all know someone who voted on that basis.

Some of them even post on here. They know who they are!

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:35 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:33 pm
Agreed, but I bet we all know someone who voted on that basis.

Some of them even post on here. They know who they are!
I don't know anyone who voted Brexit on that basis. And it wouldn't matter if I did.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:37 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:53 pm
One of my favorite places ever, always enjoyed going and feel sorry for those involved and will not end well for the protesters I think.

As others have said take care aggi, is it a visit, how long will you be staying?
I was just there for a few weeks in November. It's a place I've visited a lot over the past twenty years for holiday and work but I'm not sure if I'll be going back.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:47 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 pm
We couldn't control EU immigration so it was politically much trickier to do so.

When you have full control of your immigration system you can control the decisions you make.
Reading between the lines there what Rowls is saying is no but if he obfuscates the answer you may think yes.

They weren't offered it in 97 because the UK was concerned about absorbing so many people into the country and also about annoying China.

The EU actually does extend additional rights to BNOs, they get visa free travel within the the EU which doesn't really suggest the EU had a problem with it.
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Rowls » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:00 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:47 pm
Reading between the lines there what Rowls is saying is no but if he obfuscates the answer you may think yes.
???? What?

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:05 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:00 pm
???? What?
I think you're fully aware that the EU wouldn't have stopped us but didn't want to say that so waffled a bit.
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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:15 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:20 pm
Is it 3 million people that are eligible?

Can't see that going down well with the people who voted for Brexit solely on the basis of keeping "foreigners" out!
Just because they're eligible doesn't mean they'll all want to come to the UK, would you rather we reneged on our commitment to them, because i wouldn't imagine that would go down well with the international community, that's the sort of thing you'd expect from Beijing not London.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:23 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:15 pm
Just because they're eligible doesn't mean they'll all want to come to the UK, would you rather we reneged on our commitment to them, because i wouldn't imagine that would go down well with the international community, that's the sort of thing you'd expect from Beijing not London.
I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that the new found tory voters might just be a bit perturbed at the prospect of a mass of immigrants coming in from the far east.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by joey13 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:27 pm

Tuesday ,government ends free movement of people
Wednesday,government offers British citizenships to 3 million people :)

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Stayingup » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:40 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:23 pm
I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that the new found tory voters might just be a bit perturbed at the prospect of a mass of immigrants coming in from the far east.
Rather daft comment that. I would think.most people are like me in respect of Chinese in UK
They come, they work, they dont demand and are a wonderful addition to our society. Do you happen to know which city in Europe has most Chinese?

Oh and to compound your lack of understanding of the electorate, which political party in UK has most anti immigration voters? The last election (plus the referendum) should give you a huge clue.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Stayingup » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:47 pm

Corky wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:00 pm
HK never belonged to us. We acted like arrogant, ignorant bullies (East India Company) making the current day Columbian and Mexican drug cartels look like a bunch of girl guides when we took it from China (Opium Wars). Is it any wonder that they do not really care what we think. I certainly wouldn't if I was in their shoes.
LOL

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:49 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:40 pm
Rather daft comment that. I would think.most people are like me in respect of Chinese in UK
They come, they work, they dont demand and are a wonderful addition to our society. Do you happen to know which city in Europe has most Chinese?
I applaud your liberal attitude. Yes, I too have full respect for the Chinese community in the UK, but ask yourself if the average knuckle dragger, who voted for Brexit and then for Boris because he/she was under the misapprehension that the Tories would continue their hostile environment policy would be pleased with today's news.

They won't be, obviously.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:56 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:40 pm
Oh and to compound your lack of understanding of the electorate, which political party in UK has most anti immigration voters? The last election (plus the referendum) should give you a huge clue.
At a guess the Brexit party/UKIP closely followed by the Tories.

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Re: Hong Kong protests

Post by Stayingup » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:08 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:10 pm
Well, looks like it's the beginning of the end for Hong Kong now https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53244862

Sad news and even at the best of times the UK would have had trouble contesting this. As it stands at the moment there was no way we were going to do anything major and I'm sure China knows that.
China has driven a horse and cart through the Sino - UK.Joint Declaration. Their National Security Law severely restricts freedom of expression and other freedoms and imposes draconian penalties on those who do express dissent.

Taiwan next? Maybe.

Wahat can the free world do? It didn't do too much after the Tianannen Square massacre but that was a different case. I cant see it doing much now. There will be sabre rattling and threats. Mainly economic, calls to reshore manufacturing. But China has a high productive, high performing supply chains with a well trained workforce and big mass production facilities. This can't be easiky and quicly replicated and China knows that. Ji Xinping will be hoping this all blows over and that will be likely be the case.

The so called free world is i a mess. Pressure groups here pressure groups there all ahredding society and eventuallt affecting the economy.
China knows all this and therefore feels it can act with impunity.

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