NZ vs England (1st test) 10 PM GMT

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:11 pm

All the glue from yesterday's efforts been washed away.
Not good, this.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:13 pm

Vino blanco wrote:Pope gone as well from a very loose shot to a ball wide of off stump. Sam Curran just gone to a revised lbw first ball delivery. Mini collapse!!

I'd class 4 wickets for 18 runs as more than a mini collapse,England might struggle to reach 350,down to Buttler and the tail now.

300-8 on this tame pitch isn't good enough i'm afraid,especially batting first,this England side can't seem to put 2 good days together.

Archer gone now,why is he still coming in ahead of Leach,England just need the bowlers to stick around and support Jos.

Try and avoid a run out FGS.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Jack Leach is in now for another innings to show the so called batsmen how to get runs .
Well let us hope so.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:16 pm

Things looked fine when Stokes and Pope were going along quite easily, then two poor shots from them both has led to a collapse. Those shots were not the shots of test match batsmen, when will we learn?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:18 pm

Buxtonclaret wrote:All the glue from yesterday's efforts been washed away.
Not good, this.

There's 3 certainties in life death,taxes and an England batting collapse.

Local cricketer · Post by **Local cricketer** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:19 pm

The new dawn lasted one day

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:21 pm

We've just completely forgot how to bat in a Test match.
I can forgive the fact we probably should have had a few more runs yesterday, because we stuck around, for the most part.
Back to our clueless norm today though.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:55 pm

320 should be plenty.

Their medium pace dollopers have forced errors from our batters but our attack should be much better.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:10 am

329-8 at lunch Buttler and Leach repairing some of the damage,stand currently worth 34,surely Leach has to be promoted above Jofra,he's shown that he can occupy the crease and the senior batsmen(Buttler in this instance) clearly trust him.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:15 am

Couple of posters have said it but I can only add that I don’t understand how Archer comes in before Leach

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:22 am

If these two get us close to 400 I think it will be a good score. Buttler looks in good nick after his 100 last week in a warm up and Leach can stick around.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:52 am

RVclaret wrote:If these two get us close to 400 I think it will be a good score. Buttler looks in good nick after his 100 last week in a warm up and Leach can stick around.

Problem is that as soon as one of them is out then Broad comes in and that should see the last wicket go quickly.

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:59 am

I think 360-370 is about what we’ll get. Very par score.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:09 am

Buttler gone. 347/9.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:24 am

And, as predicted, Broad goes for one. 353 all out.

That’s me done for tonight. Hopefully I’ll get up tomorrow morning and we will have taken a few wickets.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:24 am

353 all out. I was hoping for 400ish. Let's see how our bowlers do. I will give it another hour then it's bedtime.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:51 am

ClaretTony wrote:Couple of posters have said it but I can only add that I don’t understand how Archer comes in before Leach

Archer should be competing for the No. 11 spot if Jimmy were playing, and only because he can't bat at 12.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:59 am

Not a bad bowling effort and a huge late wicket of Williamson from Curran. If we can get them all out for 250-280 it gives us a solid platform to go and win the test.

And very good to see the big Clitheroe flag flashing on TV every over

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:05 am

Leach should definitely be under consideration for an "all rounder" tag and should be batting a bit higher up. Curran is a good bat too (even though he didn't do anything in that innings), but Archer really isn't!! It comes to something when imo Jimmy is actually a better bat than Archer or Broad!!!

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:58 am

Dark Cloud wrote:Leach should definitely be under consideration for an "all rounder" tag and should be batting a bit higher up. Curran is a good bat too (even though he didn't do anything in that innings), but Archer really isn't!! It comes to something when imo Jimmy is actually a better bat than Archer or Broad!!!

I'd put myself in to bat ahead of all 3 of those and I have barely played cricket since I left primary school 26 years ago

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:08 am

A lot of stick for Archer's batting on here. He can play and will get a 50 soon. His laid back attitude will get him out quite a lot.

But he has to be allowed to just play his shots. How a tailender should play.

Why anyone would want a fast bowler in there just blocking and risking injury is beyond me?

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:41 pm

A bit off topic but..... Ive just caught up with the score in the Oz v Pakistan test in Brisbane. Pakistan won the toss and batted and were 240 AO on the first day; at the end of the 2nd day, Oz are 312-1 with Warner

151 NO. First wicket went down at 222 when Burns was out for 97.
Fair to say Oz are on top there; more so than England who have a mere slight advantage at the end of day2.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Tough first hour for England 176-4 Root wasting a review when there was an obvious edge,13 overs to the 2nd new ball,and England need that to make something happen.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:19 pm

We have not bowled well in this first session today. Much too short at times, not enough on line and making the batsmen play, in fact, quite poor really!
This could turn out to be a very tight game.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:34 pm

Would you Adam and Eve it,golden arm Root strikes

,Nicholls out for 41,need to try and get the rest quickly.That in the same over as Stokes spilling an easy chance.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:38 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:We have not bowled well in this first session today. Much too short at times, not enough on line and making the batsmen play, in fact, quite poor really!
This could tuenr out to be a very tight game.

Archer's been poor too many ineffective short balls,you've got to be patient with bat and ball on a slow paced track,a lesson for him to learn at test level.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:43 pm

Much like our second day collapse with lack of patience, we're doing the same with the ball today.
Its got to be a 'between the ears' thing.
We've completely forgotten how to play a 5 day Test Match.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:05 am

LeadBelly wrote:A bit off topic but..... Ive just caught up with the score in the Oz v Pakistan test in Brisbane. Pakistan won the toss and batted and were 240 AO on the first day; at the end of the 2nd day, Oz are 312-1 with Warner 151 NO. First wicket went down at 222 when Burns was out for 97.
Fair to say Oz are on top there; more so than England who have a mere slight advantage at the end of day2.

Found myself watching same... Thinking this naseem shah ?looks a good bowler Bowled out warner who was on 154 first test wicket at 16 year old.well done him...

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:33 am

394-6 on close of play. Really poor day of which there have been far too many with the test team.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:56 am

I see they still haven’t a clue how to use Archer effectively? There’s a time to bowl bouncers, not 5 of your 6 deliveries

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:29 am

Very poor today.

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:34 am

Watched until 00:30 then gave up and went to bed, glad I did.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:53 am

A very sloppy performance including the drop catch by Stokes, with the lad going on to make a 100.
New Zealand are far more disciplined.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:09 am

Not sure why Archer is constantly banging it in short on such a flat pitch.

Local cricketer · Post by **Local cricketer** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:54 am

The captain is clueless

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:01 am

Saw very little last night given I had an early start this morning

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:12 am

Must admit I didn't see any last night but 55 overs between Archer and Broad without a wicket doesn't sound great.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:20 am

NZ putting England's total into perspective on this pitch,this is what happens when you don't bat teams out of the match in the opening 2 days,poor use of reviews,dropped catches,and just a general malaise about England in the field,unless these last 4 wickets fall quickly on day 4,England will face a survival battle,true the surface is still benign,but if the Kiwi's amass a lead of 100-150,they'll be able to set attacking fields and that'll bring the spinner into the game.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:42 am

LeadBelly wrote:A bit off topic but..... Ive just caught up with the score in the Oz v Pakistan test in Brisbane. Pakistan won the toss and batted and were 240 AO on the first day; at the end of the 2nd day, Oz are 312-1 with Warner 151 NO. First wicket went down at 222 when Burns was out for 97.
Fair to say Oz are on top there; more so than England who have a mere slight advantage at the end of day2.

Just checking out the Aus-Pak scorecard,Aussies 580 AO,and amazingly Steve Smith only made 4,Labuschagne 185 top-scored,the Aussies will wrap up victory on day 4 barring an amazing rearguard action from the Pakistan batsman,they're already 3 down 2nd dig and need almost another 300 just to ensure Australia bat again.

What catches my eye is Watling the NZ centurion has batted over 7 hours,Warner batted for over 7 hours and Labuschagne for over 6 hours,compare that to England's 1st innings in ideal batting conditions,and only Denly stayed at the crease for more than 4 hours,Burns and Stokes managed just over 3 hours each,this is the main reason England don't score 400/500 runs in test matches,they can't bat for long periods and wear the bowlers down.

On this pitch batting first England should have been out in the middle until at least tea on the 2nd day,our total innings lasted only 124 overs,already New Zealand have batted for 141 overs,a test match lasts 5 days England need to get this into their heads.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:52 am

Had the same problem for a while now overseas. On flat pitches where the ball isn't swinging our bowling attack is pretty toothless. The likes of Broad, Woakes and Curran are fine in English conditions but on a flat deck they aren't much of a threat.

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:32 pm

Why am I watching this crap again.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:17 am

England have bowled much better today,and slowed the runs down,but the horse has already bolted,i can't see how England can win from here,but NZ will happily continue to tick the scoreboard over,leads nearing a 100,and there's still 5 sessions remaining,England can still salvage a draw from here quite easily,the pitch isn't playing any worse,the spinner could be a problem though.

The biggest issue is England's inability to bat time,and grind an innings out,Burns,Denly and Stokes all get set in the 1st innings,but none of that trio managed a century,Watling's still there and approaching 150,when one guy goes big it's much easier for the rest of the line-up to play around him.

Another wicketless session for England,this is becoming a habit i'm afraid.

England have gone wicketless for the second time in three sessions. That's the 30th time they've not taken a wicket in a session since the start of 2017.

It's been 60 overs since England last took a wicket.

They've taken two wickets in 131.2 overs...

Those bare facts highlight how easy it is to bat on this wicket,and how England underscored in the 1st innings.

What concerns me is the amount of overs Archer,Broad and Stokes(who appears to be cAarrying an injury) are bowling,they'll be zonked out for the 2nd test,which is only a few days after the finish of the 1st.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:46 am

Wondering now, if we can make them bat again.
They've taken up where the Aussies left off.

Granny WeatherWax · Post by **Granny WeatherWax** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:47 am

Awful from England. Test side is a real mess at the moment. Tough ask not to lose now.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:42 am

Assuming this test is lost,England need to look at the 2nd morning,277-4 was a decent launchpad to reach 450-500,if that had been attained we'd now be discussing a tame draw,but England have the mindset that 350 is a good score,now in England on a green seamer with cloud cover maybe that's the case,but any half decent test batsman should eye this pitch on day 1,and think i'm booking in for bed & breakfast,NZ'S 6th/7th wicket pairs put on nearly 400 with relative ease.

That Stokes drop is now looking the decisive moment in this match,Watling was on only 31 at the time.

As i suspected the spinner is proving a thorn in England's side,and NZ are so far ahead they can set attacking fields,and right off the odd boundary.

Sums up England's day that they opted not to review Leach's dismissal,it would likely have been overturned,i knbw he's only a nightwatchman,but he's capable of hanging around in the morning for an hour or so,and that's an hour less the established batsman have to face,plus the balls nearly 30 overs old and this should be the easiest period to bat.

Good game to save from here,personally i fear we'll be all out by teatime,England don't have the mentality to play out for a draw.

I noticed India and Australia both completed innings victories,they are both flexing their muscles big time.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:05 pm

Root gone for 11 terrible shot again from an England batsman,70-4,Denly and Stokes need to bat a lot of overs here to give England any chance of rescuing a draw.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:08 pm

Looking like an innings defeat. Which given where we were at the end of the first day is an absolute shambles. Root out to a ridiculous shot. Short and outside off, leave it all day long. So he paddles it to gulley.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:42 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:Looking like an innings defeat. Which given where we were at the end of the first day is an absolute shambles. Root out to a ridiculous shot. Short and outside off, leave it all day long. So he paddles it to gulley.

England have a good day and think the job is done,that's completely the wrong mentality,look at how New Zealand batted and batted,they were relentless in grinding out the runs,only once they had a good lead did they become more expansive,England clearly haven't learnt from the Ashes,if you're battling to save the game don't play at deliveries you don't have too,in fact even if you're not trying to bat out the 5th day it's still a terrible shot,but in the circumstances it's ten times worse.

Trent Boult's had to leave the field he's obviously not 100% fit,now England have to make the rest of the attack work harder,the spearhead might not bowl again today,so that''s a blow for the Kiwi's,England have to take advantage of that.

This text to the Beeb site made me

Sad to see how far behind the other "Big Four" Joe Root has fallen. It's like trying to explain to kids today that Blackburn once won the Premier League.

Marlo

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:57 pm

tiger76 wrote:Root gone for 11 terrible shot again from an England batsman,70-4,Denly and Stokes need to bat a lot of overs here to give England any chance of rescuing a draw.

I’d love to know Root’s batting stats since he became captain.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:14 am

ClaretTony wrote:I’d love to know Root’s batting stats since he became captain.

Since you asked As Test captain, Joe Root averages 39.70 - the only Englishman to average more than him in that time is Ben Foakes, who averages 41.50 from five matches. #NZvENG

Courtesy of the BBC

It's actually not that bad,however his average in 2019 is In the 10 Test matches Joe Root has played in 2019 he has scored 548 runs, at an average of 27.4.

I'm sure when Root intially became captain he was averaging in the 50's at least possibly more.

The good news for England is lunch has arrived and 98-4 is the score,but don't forget one of those 4 is Jack Leach,this is still very saveable,but you feel this pair will need to see out the majority or ideally all of the afternoon session.

Big plus to Denly he's batted almost 2 and a half hours for his 21,that's the mindset that's needed in this pickle,runs are academic England's deficit is still 164,so it's all about seeing out the remaining overs.