350 Million

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BabylonClaret
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Re: 350 Million

Post by BabylonClaret » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:47 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:15 pm
Well - personally, I did, (despite reservations), because so far as most people were concerned it was asking the wrong question, since it wasn't really a vote for PR. Clegg and the liberals were stupid to accept this compromise and should have made a proper vote on referendum a pre-condition for making any sort of Alliance with Cameron.
There was only a 40% turnout, (or something similar), and I don't think that any one group really tried to engage the electorate. I think that following the Scottish referendum and the 2016 EU referendum the turnout would be a lot higher now.
Spot on. Not a vote on PR at all and I almost voted against simply because it really a change at all (I went for it in the end as it would have made more seats marginal which at least might slightly improve the situation). One thing this thread has demonstrated is the desperate need to have an electoral system that doesn't disenfranchise voters the way ours does, and that many people feel left behind from society - not just financially. Ironically I think that had we had a proper PR system then some of the disenfranchisement might have been mitigated and we might have avoided the position we're now in - doubly ironic that the ones proposing to revoke Article 50 unilaterally could have actually done something about our political system in 2010 but chose to jump in bed with Cameron and prop up his austerity government
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BennyD
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Re: 350 Million

Post by BennyD » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:43 am

Siddo wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:53 am
Is this post a wind up?
If not, you have just made me realise why I have always voted Labour. A party that genuinely cares for people that may not have the ability to care for themselves and their families. People whose circumstances are so different from yours. But Labour don't mock or condemn these people, they try to improve their lot.
It might not work, but at least they try.
The Conservatives would just ignore them and carry on giving big business huge tax cuts.
And still people vote for them.
To me, that is the biggest mystery of our times.
Read the posts leading up to the post you quoted; I was showing why I didnt make MY decision based on the £350m going to the NHS. I made my decision based on my long term dislike of the European wet dream, not on some fictional idea of swamping the notoriously inefficient NHS with even more money.

Siddo
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Siddo » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:46 am

I'm talking about your "I'm alright Jack" statement because you have private medicine.
I would love to know why you have wanted out of the EU for 20 years, when most leave voters never gave it a thought until 2016.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: 350 Million

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:16 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:08 am
Yeah, you sound ecstatic in the post I quoted. But I know you have a short attention span so you've probably forgotten what you wrote.

Still, you won so **** the consequences
Remoaners really dont like having their schizophrenic attitude to labour Leave voters do they!

Approximately 5 million labour voters voted Leave. Many Remoaners, when these people vote Labour are happy to describe them as , "considerd" as "caring for the less well off" as "having a strong moral compass" as "sophisticated" as "showing compassion for the marginalised" even "defenders of the NHS". However, when these very same people had the audacity to vote Leave, when many of them believed theyd finally be listened to, after years of being ignored by the London centric establishment and political class. And voting Leave meant change. Well! All of a sudden these very same people are "knuckle draggers", "xenophobic racists" , "Little Englanders" "pitch fork wielding , swivel eyed nazis" " uneducated parochial , provincial, narrow minded bigots" that fell for the " lie on a bus".

Instead of addressing their own, unthinking prejudices and inconsistencies , its easier to play the man, not the ball and **** the consequences!

;)
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Taffy on the wing
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:39 am

They voted leave because..... they are poorly educated, easily fooled, & believed the Tory lies emblazoned on buses and , all over social media.
It's alright Ringo, you can admit that you were fooled too!.................Don't bother responding, i've heard it a thousand times from you & all the other "i'm alright Jacks"...The only way forward is Labour!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:53 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:39 am
They voted leave because..... they are poorly educated, easily fooled, & believed the Tory lies emblazoned on buses and , all over social media.
It's alright Ringo, you can admit that you were fooled too!.................Don't bother responding, i've heard it a thousand times from you & all the other "i'm alright Jacks"...The only way forward is Labour!
Under Corbyn I'd rather peel all my own skin off and dive in a salt lake.

Life long Labour voter and I can assure you voting labour is the least stupid thing you will do this year because your clearly a head up the own arse type judging on the above post.

VOTE CONSERVATIVE

mdd2
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Re: 350 Million

Post by mdd2 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:54 am

Pick up your tools get on your asses and find the promised land-Tory, Lib Dem, Greens etc
Down your tools sit on your arses this is the promised land--Labour :D :D
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mdd2
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Re: 350 Million

Post by mdd2 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:57 am

I have voted but I think I could have put my x in any of the four boxes I was offered with about the same amount of foreboding.
What a shocking choice we have.

TheFamilyCat
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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:14 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:16 am
Remoaners really dont like having their schizophrenic attitude to labour Leave voters do they!

Approximately 5 million labour voters voted Leave. Many Remoaners, when these people vote Labour are happy to describe them as , "considerd" as "caring for the less well off" as "having a strong moral compass" as "sophisticated" as "showing compassion for the marginalised" even "defenders of the NHS". However, when these very same people had the audacity to vote Leave, when many of them believed theyd finally be listened to, after years of being ignored by the London centric establishment and political class. And voting Leave meant change. Well! All of a sudden these very same people are "knuckle draggers", "xenophobic racists" , "Little Englanders" "pitch fork wielding , swivel eyed nazis" " uneducated parochial , provincial, narrow minded bigots" that fell for the " lie on a bus".

Instead of addressing their own, unthinking prejudices and inconsistencies , its easier to play the man, not the ball and **** the consequences!

;)
Not really sure why you've quoted me for that rant.

Also - where have you got the figure of 5 million Labour leave voters from? It's a number we keep mentioning.
Last edited by TheFamilyCat on Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Corky
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Corky » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:44 am

I shall be voting Labour. It is not my job to tell others what to vote but just look at what the Tories have done in the last, almost, 10 years. Not good, is it?

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:03 am

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:44 am
I shall be voting Labour. It is not my job to tell others what to vote but just look at what the Tories have done in the last, almost, 10 years. Not good, is it?
Yes just look at what they have done . I mean take employment rates for example all those poor dossers having to actually work.

nil_desperandum
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Re: 350 Million

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:44 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:03 am
Yes just look at what they have done . I mean take employment rates for example all those poor dossers having to actually work .... on zero hours contracts.
Did you accidentally delete the last 4 words of your post, and the most important / relevant?

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am

The ones that benefit millions of people in the situation when it suits their lifestyle and circumstances.

Caballo
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am
The ones that benefit millions of people in the situation when it suits their lifestyle and circumstances.

I've yet to find an example of these millions of people that benefit from zero hours contracts.

elwaclaret
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Re: 350 Million

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:22 am

Bfcboyo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:03 am
Yes just look at what they have done . I mean take employment rates for example all those poor dossers having to actually work.

How is such hyperbole at all helpful in reality? Most people claiming benefit do so because they have little other option. To castigate the majority for the actions of the minority is every bit as stupid as saying “Burnley fans are racist” because a couple of cretins shout abuse at players.... nonsensical.

As a floating voter, comments like this make me far more inclined to vote Labour, than anything Labour are saying.
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Hapag Lloyd
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:27 am

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:44 am
I shall be voting Labour. It is not my job to tell others what to vote but just look at what the Tories have done in the last, almost, 10 years. Not good, is it?
It was never going to be after the last Labour government almost bankrupted the country.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by dsr » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:52 am

Caballo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am
I've yet to find an example of these millions of people that benefit from zero hours contracts.
HMRC have made it illegal to pay casual wages. Anyone you pay nowadays, if you are paying legally, has to be registered as an employee before making payment to them. Hence zero hours contracts.

If you stop thinking of the words "zero hours contracts" as the tools of the devil, and think of them instead as casual wages, then you will have a better grasp of what it is about. If social services are counting a casual labour job offer as a a full job offer and removing benefits, then that is a scandal and should be stopped. But if casual labour is being offered to people who want casual labour and for whom casual labour is a sensible thing to have - eg. students or people who want a part time second job or a job with flexible hours, and emphatically not people who need a job with regular incme - then casual labour is a good idea and abolishing it would be a bad idea.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:09 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:52 am
HMRC have made it illegal to pay casual wages. Anyone you pay nowadays, if you are paying legally, has to be registered as an employee before making payment to them. Hence zero hours contracts.

If you stop thinking of the words "zero hours contracts" as the tools of the devil, and think of them instead as casual wages, then you will have a better grasp of what it is about. If social services are counting a casual labour job offer as a a full job offer and removing benefits, then that is a scandal and should be stopped. But if casual labour is being offered to people who want casual labour and for whom casual labour is a sensible thing to have - eg. students or people who want a part time second job or a job with flexible hours, and emphatically not people who need a job with regular incme - then casual labour is a good idea and abolishing it would be a bad idea.

Being tied to a single employer(a stipulation of many zero contracts) that can't offer you regular work is not compatible with a stable existence. Stop thinking of a student that wants 4 hrs bar work a week as the issue, think instead of the poorly educated, low skilled, minimum wage couple trying to bring up their 2 kids in a 2 up 2 down with their 15 year old ford escort outside.

dsr
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Re: 350 Million

Post by dsr » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:14 am

Caballo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:09 am
Being tied to a single employer(a stipulation of many zero contracts) that can't offer you regular work is not compatible with a stable existence. Stop thinking of a student that wants 4 hrs bar work a week as the issue, think instead of the poorly educated, low skilled, minimum wage couple trying to bring up their 2 kids in a 2 up 2 down with their 15 year old ford escort outside.
You're stating the absolute obvious there. Did you even read my post? Specifically, the bit where I said "emphatically not people who need a job with regular income"?

We all know that casual wages is not suitable for people who need regular income. If that job is unsuitable, then you shouldn't take that job. And (as I also said) if social services are forcing people to take that job because they think that counts as employment, then it's a scandal - are social service doing that?

But if a job is unsuitable for certain types of people, that isn't a good reason for making it illegal for those that it does suit.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by martin_p » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:15 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:52 am
HMRC have made it illegal to pay casual wages. Anyone you pay nowadays, if you are paying legally, has to be registered as an employee before making payment to them. Hence zero hours contracts.

If you stop thinking of the words "zero hours contracts" as the tools of the devil, and think of them instead as casual wages, then you will have a better grasp of what it is about. If social services are counting a casual labour job offer as a a full job offer and removing benefits, then that is a scandal and should be stopped. But if casual labour is being offered to people who want casual labour and for whom casual labour is a sensible thing to have - eg. students or people who want a part time second job or a job with flexible hours, and emphatically not people who need a job with regular incme - then casual labour is a good idea and abolishing it would be a bad idea.
Ah, so when the Tories make grand claims about having created loads of jobs they’re lying as many of them are merely a formalisation, for tax purposes, of existing casual jobs.

Leisure
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Leisure » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:30 am

Caballo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am
I've yet to find an example of these millions of people that benefit from zero hours contracts.
I know quite a few young people in the leisure industry who prefer these contracts, as it gives them the control/freedom over when they choose to work or not. However, I also do appreciate that they don't suit everyone.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:55 am

Leisure wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:30 am
I know quite a few young people in the leisure industry who prefer these contracts, as it gives them the control/freedom over when they choose to work or not. However, I also do appreciate that they don't suit everyone.
I would agree with that. The issue is where companies are giving employees full time hours on a zero-hour contract basis.
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:39 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:55 am
I would agree with that. The issue is where companies are giving employees full time hours on a zero-hour contract basis.
That's it right there, 4 hrs bar work in the student union is a part time job. Whilst it is technically a zero hours contract, in reality that's not the sort of thing people take issue with.
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Colburn_Claret
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:44 am
I shall be voting Labour. It is not my job to tell others what to vote but just look at what the Tories have done in the last, almost, 10 years. Not good, is it?
There are many things about the Tories i dislike, and some I hate but exactly what have the Tories done over the last 10 years that has made life worse, compared to say any 10 years in the 90s, or the 80s, or God forbid the 70s.
The vast majority of people in this country are better off now than they have ever been. The NHS has been going downhill under both Parties for decades. The education system suffers from being treated like a political football, and an ever increasing population. The transport system is stretched to breaking point by the ever increasing number of cars on the road. Every household seems to have 3 cars attached.
The problem Labour have is they talk about representing the working class, but havent got a clue who working class man is. They still envisage him with a flat cap and whippet. The truth is most working class men earn good money. They live in their own homes, they go on foreign holidays.
The RMT are going on strike in the SE for more money. They want 60,000 a year. These are working class men, only they will be hit like everyone else when Labours tax hell unfolds.
Labour have become the home of the unemployed and ethnic minorities. While giving greater support to these people is a very good cause, it cant be the only cause.

The real choice on Thursday is continuing with the status quo which wont hurt the vast majority on this board, if they are in employment, or letting in Labour, and for all their promises they will bankrupt the country in no time. A state that could take a generation to repair.

As a Labour party member for 40 years I will vote Conservative. I love my country too much to do otherwise.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:31 pm
There are many things about the Tories i dislike, and some I hate but exactly what have the Tories done over the last 10 years that has made life worse, compared to say any 10 years in the 90s, or the 80s, or God forbid the 70s.
The vast majority of people in this country are better off now than they have ever been. The NHS has been going downhill under both Parties for decades. The education system suffers from being treated like a political football, and an ever increasing population. The transport system is stretched to breaking point by the ever increasing number of cars on the road. Every household seems to have 3 cars attached.
The problem Labour have is they talk about representing the working class, but havent got a clue who working class man is. They still envisage him with a flat cap and whippet. The truth is most working class men earn good money. They live in their own homes, they go on foreign holidays.
The RMT are going on strike in the SE for more money. They want 60,000 a year. These are working class men, only they will be hit like everyone else when Labours tax hell unfolds.
Labour have become the home of the unemployed and ethnic minorities. While giving greater support to these people is a very good cause, it cant be the only cause.

The real choice on Thursday is continuing with the status quo which wont hurt the vast majority on this board, if they are in employment, or letting in Labour, and for all their promises they will bankrupt the country in no time. A state that could take a generation to repair.

As a Labour party member for 40 years I will vote Conservative. I love my country too much to do otherwise.
I just popped that last sentence into Google translate. It came back as "I want Brexit more than life itself".
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JTClaret
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Re: 350 Million

Post by JTClaret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:10 pm

I'm yet to meet a leave voter whose main reason for voting leave was the bus.
Nor, have I spoken to any that believed the UK would be better off in the short term.

I was scared to leave the EU, but now I couldn't care less. I'm more worried about a UK that claims to be a democracy but only if it suits those that shout loudest. I'm also very grateful for the remainers and their protests on behalf of the leavers, about how they were hoodwinked by lies and mis-information and clearly didn't understand what they were voting for... I just wish I would meet one of these leave voters who feels this was the case.

3 and a half years, and there are still remain voters bitching about the result! No wonder the country is on it's arse.

ClaretAndJew
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Re: 350 Million

Post by ClaretAndJew » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Ok, boomer.

Caballo
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Caballo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:20 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:14 pm
Ok, boomer.
Shiiiiiittttttttttt, I've fallen asleep and woken up in 2017

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:12 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:53 am
Under Corbyn I'd rather peel all my own skin off and dive in a salt lake.

Life long Labour voter and I can assure you voting labour is the least stupid thing you will do this year because your clearly a head up the own arse type judging on the above post.

VOTE CONSERVATIVE
Your post doesn't make sense!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Corky » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:14 pm

For the attention of Colburn Claret.

I tell you what, lets go back to the early 1800s shall we, when ordinary working class people who didn't have a vote were being killed not a million miles from Burnley due to having the nerve to seek electoral reform. Or from there lets leap forward to the 1940s when the Tories opposed Labours ideas on a NHS. I want a decent civil social society that as Labour keep on saying is for the many not the few. Trickle down economy does not work.

It is demonstrably evident that austerity has had a serious impact on the NHS, the Police and Education and on other essential services. I personally do not particularly like Jeremy Corbyn but I would rather he was our PM than that lying, cheating, racist, homophobic, self aggrandising sociopath BOJO.
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Chip Harrison » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:20 pm

Top post Corky!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by kentonclaret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:07 pm

The Bank Of England said earlier this year that the UK economy was roughly £40bn a year smaller than it would have been under remain. Some people would prefer their figures in "bus terms" so that is £800 million a week!

The Conservatives claim that "getting Brexit done" would unlock over £100bn of investment" in Britain, citing a Goldman Sachs research note as evidence. Analysts at the US investment bank did say that progress towards a Brexit resolution could unlock about £114bn of capital inflows. However, they were referring to investments in stocks and bonds rather than by businesses in the real economy. Music to the ears of many Tory toffs, of course, who are closely associated with investment banks and bankers.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:41 pm
I just popped that last sentence into Google translate. It came back as "I want Brexit more than life itself".
Translate it anyway you like. All I can say is I'm hardly unique. Lots of Labour supporters, or ex Labour supporters, have said they cant support the current regime. That would be the same with or without Brexit. Until Corbyn and his loony left have gone Socislism has no chance in this country. Given the lack of a Socialist option, or a credible Socialist option, the only choice is which party will inflict less damage on the country, and despite my misgivings of the Tories they win that argument hands down.

Taffy on the wing
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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:59 pm

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:14 pm
For the attention of Colburn Claret.

I tell you what, lets go back to the early 1800s shall we, when ordinary working class people who didn't have a vote were being killed not a million miles from Burnley due to having the nerve to seek electoral reform. Or from there lets leap forward to the 1940s when the Tories opposed Labours ideas on a NHS. I want a decent civil social society that as Labour keep on saying is for the many not the few. Trickle down economy does not work.

It is demonstrably evident that austerity has had a serious impact on the NHS, the Police and Education and on other essential services. I personally do not particularly like Jeremy Corbyn but I would rather he was our PM than that lying, cheating, racist, homophobic, self aggrandising sociopath BOJO.
Best post on here for quite some time...Succinct!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Bfcboyo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:01 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:12 pm
Your post doesn't make sense!
Pull your cranium from anus and it still won't.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:01 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 pm
Translate it anyway you like. All I can say is I'm hardly unique. Lots of Labour supporters, or ex Labour supporters, have said they cant support the current regime. That would be the same with or without Brexit. Until Corbyn and his loony left have gone Socislism has no chance in this country. Given the lack of a Socialist option, or a credible Socialist option, the only choice is which party will inflict less damage on the country, and despite my misgivings of the Tories they win that argument hands down.
Do you mean like Tony Blaire socialism?........that's just Tory lite!
With a couple of stupid, expensive Wars thrown in.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:17 pm

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:14 pm
For the attention of Colburn Claret.

I tell you what, lets go back to the early 1800s shall we, when ordinary working class people who didn't have a vote were being killed not a million miles from Burnley due to having the nerve to seek electoral reform. Or from there lets leap forward to the 1940s when the Tories opposed Labours ideas on a NHS. I want a decent civil social society that as Labour keep on saying is for the many not the few. Trickle down economy does not work.

It is demonstrably evident that austerity has had a serious impact on the NHS, the Police and Education and on other essential services. I personally do not particularly like Jeremy Corbyn but I would rather he was our PM than that lying, cheating, racist, homophobic, self aggrandising sociopath BOJO.
It isnt demonstrably evident at all.
The Health Service, the Police, Education etc have always suffered from a lack of funding whoever wins on Thursday, you can guarantee that in 20 years time we will still be arguing about the same issue, lack of funding for services. This happened long before austerity became the latest buzz word.
I know people on the dole, unmarried mothers living off benefits. Ex soldiers injured out of the service. I dont know anyone complaining about austerity. I dont doubt that there are people who slip through the system, or people that the system lets down, and we should all be trying our best to help them and repair the cracks, but to listen to some posters on here, they make it sound as if millions of people are struggling.
BULLOCKS
It's the same as those claiming a 3rd of Britains children live in poverty, bullocks to that as well. It just isnt true.
I realise that the snowflakes out there will brand me a heartless, selfish *******, but that isnt the case. I care about anyone suffering needlessly, but it doesn't cloud my common sense to what I see every day. There are people in need, just as there will be in 5 years time, whoever wins on Thursday, but taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut doesn't work.

nil_desperandum
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Re: 350 Million

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:47 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:31 pm
The real choice on Thursday is continuing with the status quo which wont hurt the vast majority on this board,
Exactly. The alternative is voting to "get Brexit done" and going off on an hitherto unchartered course into a "brave new world" with all the risks to the economy, our security, our public services, the NHS and the Union.
And yet in your final sentence you describe yourself as a patriot
I don't for one minute doubt that you are patriotic, (and sincere in your views) but the Tory party don't hold the monopoly on patriotism, and making us massively dependent on Trump and the USA, under a dodgy PM is hardly an act of great patriotism.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:33 pm

Corky wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:14 pm
For the attention of Colburn Claret.

I tell you what, lets go back to the early 1800s shall we, when ordinary working class people who didn't have a vote were being killed not a million miles from Burnley due to having the nerve to seek electoral reform. Or from there lets leap forward to the 1940s when the Tories opposed Labours ideas on a NHS. I want a decent civil social society that as Labour keep on saying is for the many not the few. Trickle down economy does not work.

It is demonstrably evident that austerity has had a serious impact on the NHS, the Police and Education and on other essential services. I personally do not particularly like Jeremy Corbyn but I would rather he was our PM than that lying, cheating, racist, homophobic, self aggrandising sociopath BOJO.
Every single labour government has left office , with unemployment higher than when it took office.

LABOUR -

DOLE FOR THE MANY. NOT JUST THE FEW

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Re: 350 Million

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:38 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:14 am
Not really sure why you've quoted me for that rant.
Because you quoted me! You're not exactly up to speed with how messageboards work are you!

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:14 am
Also - where have you got the figure of 5 million Labour leave voters from? It's a number we keep mentioning.
It's the commonly accepted estimate that is quoted on a regular basis in the news/current affairs. You're not exactly up to speed with how polling works are you!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:37 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:33 pm
Every single labour government has left office , with unemployment higher than when it took office.

LABOUR -

DOLE FOR THE MANY. NOT JUST THE FEW
Prove it Boyo!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:41 am

Ringo is BfCBoyo!............it's his alter-ego. AND it's wrong too!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:35 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:38 pm
Because you quoted me! You're not exactly up to speed with how messageboards work are you!




It's the commonly accepted estimate that is quoted on a regular basis in the news/current affairs. You're not exactly up to speed with how polling works are you!
I quoted you because I made a relevant reply to your post. You quoted my then typed a load of unconnected ranting. You're not exactly up to speed with how conversations work are you?

But we knew that already.

The "five milion" Labour leave voters was made up by Farage and has been widely repeated by the gullible. You're not exactly up to speed on how political spin, lies and propaganda work are you?

But we knew that already.

Link, if you needed it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984

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Re: 350 Million

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:49 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 pm
the only choice is which party will inflict less damage on the country, and despite my misgivings of the Tories they win that argument hands down.
If you think a Tory Brexit, which puts a border right through the middle of the United Kingdom, and rips up all existing trade ties with our largest and closest trading partner, is a better economic choice than a Labour plan to raise taxes a bit to adequately fund public services, then you've lost the plot.

You cannot credibly argue that Corbyn's Labour are a threat to the economy and at the same time be willing (or even hoping) to leave the EU, potentially with no deal in 12 months time. It's an incoherent and ridiculous argument to make.
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Re: 350 Million

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:05 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:35 am
I quoted you because I made a relevant reply to your post. You quoted my then typed a load of unconnected ranting. You're not exactly up to speed with how conversations work are you?

But we knew that already.

The "five milion" Labour leave voters was made up by Farage and has been widely repeated by the gullible. You're not exactly up to speed on how political spin, lies and propaganda work are you?

But we knew that already.

Link, if you needed it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984
You need to remember, Wrongo and facts are barely even on speaking terms these days.

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Corky » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:16 am

Just as an example these are Cameron pledges does anyone think that BOJO the racist liar will do better. Of course ardent Tories will say the same about JC but I certainly trust him more.

We will balance the books by 2015
THE TRUTH: Britain still has a budget deficit of £90billion
We will pay down Britain’s debts
THE TRUTH: George Osborne has borrowed over £500billion in five years - more than Labour did in 13
We will get net immigration down to the tens of thousands
THE TRUTH: Net immigration is almost 300,000 per year
No more top-down reorganisations of the NHS
THE TRUTH: £3billion wasted on the biggest reorganisation in NHS history
We will improve your living standards
THE TRUTH: Families £1,600-a-year worse off than in 2010
We will deport more foreign criminals
THE TRUTH: The number of foreign crooks on our streets soars 20%
We will keep our nation’s defences strong
THE TRUTH: Army hacked back by 20,000 troops to its lowest level since the Napoleonic wars
We will not raise VAT
THE TRUTH: VAT hiked to 20%, costing the average family £450-a-year
We will protect the vulnerable from the cuts
THE TRUTH: Cruel welfare sanctions force one million people to use food banks
We’re all in it together
THE TRUTH: Millionaires get a £100,000-a-year tax cut - the poor get the £15-a-week Bedroom Tax
GP access promised 12 hours a day, seven days a week
THE TRUTH: Patients face a 10-day wait to see their family doctor
We will get tough on illegal immigrants
THE TRUTH: Home Office loses track of 174,000 illegal immigrants
We will get tough on tax avoidance
THE TRUTH: The Treasury is still missing out on an estimated £34billion a year
We will stop the closure of A&E and maternity wards
THE TRUTH: Dozens closed or downgraded since 2010
We will cut the number of MPs by 10%
THE TRUTH: Not a single MP has been cut
We will get Britain building again
THE TRUTH: Lowest level of house-building since the war
We will have more small schools with smaller class sizes
THE TRUTH: Number of infants in oversized classes up 200%
We will protect front-line policing
THE TRUTH: 17,000 cops get the boot
We will support families through the tax and benefits system
THE TRUTH: The average family loses £1,100 through tax and benefit changes
We will be the Greenest Government Ever
THE TRUTH: Cameron tells his Ministers to “cut the green cr*p”
We will work towards ending child poverty by 2020
THE TRUTH: 300,000 more kids plunged into poverty
We will enhance the status of teachers
THE TRUTH: Teachers’ pay cut in real terms year after year and their status publicly attacked from Michael Gove
We will revolutionise cancer care
THE TRUTH: The key cancer treatment waiting time target missed for the past four quarters
We will cut the number of highly-paid special advisers in Government
THE TRUTH: Number of special advisers soars by 50%
We will support and improve Sure Start
THE TRUTH: 763 Sure Start centres closed and many more scaled down
We will break down barriers between health and social care
THE TRUTH: Social care funding slashed by £3.5billion as part of attack on town hall budgets
We will restore trust in politics
THE TRUTH: The Tories trouser £30million in donations from hedge funds – which were given a huge tax cut in 2013
We will protect our NHS
THE TRUTH: 40% of NHS contracts handed to private health firms
We will revolutionise prisoner rehab
THE TRUTH: Prison escapes, assaults and suicides all soar as inmates are locked in overcrowded cells for 23 hours a day
We will increase spending on vital flood defences
THE TRUTH: Flood defence spending cut by £247million – and thousands of homes are floode
We will fight for the union
THE TRUTH: Cameron talks up the SNP to punish Labour and unveils plans to downgrade Scottish MPs at Westminster
We will tackle inequality
THE TRUTH: The richest 1% of Britons now own the same amount of wealth as 54% of the population.
We will treat white collar crime as seriously as other crimes
THE TRUTH: 90% of cyber-crime is allowed to go undetected
No more winter crises in hospital
THE TRUTH: A&E departments in meltdown with one in five patients not seen within the four hour target.
We will invest in our schools
THE TRUTH: Plans to build more than 700 new schools across Britain brutally axed
We will help the disabled into suitable jobs
THE TRUTH: Remploy factories shut down and disabled people subjected to cruel Atos tests
We will make our borders more secure
THE TRUTH: Customs checks for dangerous drugs and weapons scaled back dramatically
We will keep supporting our young people
THE TRUTH: More than 2,000 youth workers axed and at least 350 youth centres closed
We will create security for British businesses
THE TRUTH: HSBC is amongst a raft of UK firms unsettled by Cameron’s EU referendum pledge.
We will not means-test child benefit
THE TRUTH: Child benefit means-tested and then cut for better-off families
We have no plans to get rid of the Education Maintenance Allowance
THE TRUTH: Six months later it is axed completely
We have no plans to get rid of Labour’s Future Jobs Fund
THE TRUTH: Six months later it is axed completely
We will improve Britain’s productivity
THE TRUTH: Productivity is 21% lower than the G7 average
We will deal with long-term unemployment with our ‘Work Programme’
THE TRUTH: More than 650,000 people are left off work for more than a year.
We will bring in 3,000 more midwives
THE TRUTH: Cameron misses his target by almost a third
We will create the “right sort of jobs” to spread prosperity “for the many not the few”
THE TRUTH: 1.7million zero hours contracts handed out in Cameron’s low-pay Britain
No-one will be made homeless by our welfare cuts
THE TRUTH: Rough sleeping up 55% since 2010
We will not allow cuts to front-line services
THE TRUTH: Services are cut across the board, from nearly 500 public libraries to over 1,000 lollipop ladies
We will not cut the NHS
THE TRUTH: The NHS is forced to find £5billion of ‘efficiency savings’ – cuts by any other name
We will have head-to-head TV debates like in 2010
THE TRUTH: Cameron was too chicken to take part
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TheFamilyCat
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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:19 am

Corky wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:16 am
Just as an example these are Cameron pledges does anyone think that BOJO the racist liar will do better. Of course ardent Tories will say the same about JC but I certainly trust him more.

We will balance the books by 2015
THE TRUTH: Britain still has a budget deficit of £90billion
We will pay down Britain’s debts
THE TRUTH: George Osborne has borrowed over £500billion in five years - more than Labour did in 13
We will get net immigration down to the tens of thousands
THE TRUTH: Net immigration is almost 300,000 per year
No more top-down reorganisations of the NHS
THE TRUTH: £3billion wasted on the biggest reorganisation in NHS history
We will improve your living standards
THE TRUTH: Families £1,600-a-year worse off than in 2010
We will deport more foreign criminals
THE TRUTH: The number of foreign crooks on our streets soars 20%
We will keep our nation’s defences strong
THE TRUTH: Army hacked back by 20,000 troops to its lowest level since the Napoleonic wars
We will not raise VAT
THE TRUTH: VAT hiked to 20%, costing the average family £450-a-year
We will protect the vulnerable from the cuts
THE TRUTH: Cruel welfare sanctions force one million people to use food banks
We’re all in it together
THE TRUTH: Millionaires get a £100,000-a-year tax cut - the poor get the £15-a-week Bedroom Tax
GP access promised 12 hours a day, seven days a week
THE TRUTH: Patients face a 10-day wait to see their family doctor
We will get tough on illegal immigrants
THE TRUTH: Home Office loses track of 174,000 illegal immigrants
We will get tough on tax avoidance
THE TRUTH: The Treasury is still missing out on an estimated £34billion a year
We will stop the closure of A&E and maternity wards
THE TRUTH: Dozens closed or downgraded since 2010
We will cut the number of MPs by 10%
THE TRUTH: Not a single MP has been cut
We will get Britain building again
THE TRUTH: Lowest level of house-building since the war
We will have more small schools with smaller class sizes
THE TRUTH: Number of infants in oversized classes up 200%
We will protect front-line policing
THE TRUTH: 17,000 cops get the boot
We will support families through the tax and benefits system
THE TRUTH: The average family loses £1,100 through tax and benefit changes
We will be the Greenest Government Ever
THE TRUTH: Cameron tells his Ministers to “cut the green cr*p”
We will work towards ending child poverty by 2020
THE TRUTH: 300,000 more kids plunged into poverty
We will enhance the status of teachers
THE TRUTH: Teachers’ pay cut in real terms year after year and their status publicly attacked from Michael Gove
We will revolutionise cancer care
THE TRUTH: The key cancer treatment waiting time target missed for the past four quarters
We will cut the number of highly-paid special advisers in Government
THE TRUTH: Number of special advisers soars by 50%
We will support and improve Sure Start
THE TRUTH: 763 Sure Start centres closed and many more scaled down
We will break down barriers between health and social care
THE TRUTH: Social care funding slashed by £3.5billion as part of attack on town hall budgets
We will restore trust in politics
THE TRUTH: The Tories trouser £30million in donations from hedge funds – which were given a huge tax cut in 2013
We will protect our NHS
THE TRUTH: 40% of NHS contracts handed to private health firms
We will revolutionise prisoner rehab
THE TRUTH: Prison escapes, assaults and suicides all soar as inmates are locked in overcrowded cells for 23 hours a day
We will increase spending on vital flood defences
THE TRUTH: Flood defence spending cut by £247million – and thousands of homes are floode
We will fight for the union
THE TRUTH: Cameron talks up the SNP to punish Labour and unveils plans to downgrade Scottish MPs at Westminster
We will tackle inequality
THE TRUTH: The richest 1% of Britons now own the same amount of wealth as 54% of the population.
We will treat white collar crime as seriously as other crimes
THE TRUTH: 90% of cyber-crime is allowed to go undetected
No more winter crises in hospital
THE TRUTH: A&E departments in meltdown with one in five patients not seen within the four hour target.
We will invest in our schools
THE TRUTH: Plans to build more than 700 new schools across Britain brutally axed
We will help the disabled into suitable jobs
THE TRUTH: Remploy factories shut down and disabled people subjected to cruel Atos tests
We will make our borders more secure
THE TRUTH: Customs checks for dangerous drugs and weapons scaled back dramatically
We will keep supporting our young people
THE TRUTH: More than 2,000 youth workers axed and at least 350 youth centres closed
We will create security for British businesses
THE TRUTH: HSBC is amongst a raft of UK firms unsettled by Cameron’s EU referendum pledge.
We will not means-test child benefit
THE TRUTH: Child benefit means-tested and then cut for better-off families
We have no plans to get rid of the Education Maintenance Allowance
THE TRUTH: Six months later it is axed completely
We have no plans to get rid of Labour’s Future Jobs Fund
THE TRUTH: Six months later it is axed completely
We will improve Britain’s productivity
THE TRUTH: Productivity is 21% lower than the G7 average
We will deal with long-term unemployment with our ‘Work Programme’
THE TRUTH: More than 650,000 people are left off work for more than a year.
We will bring in 3,000 more midwives
THE TRUTH: Cameron misses his target by almost a third
We will create the “right sort of jobs” to spread prosperity “for the many not the few”
THE TRUTH: 1.7million zero hours contracts handed out in Cameron’s low-pay Britain
No-one will be made homeless by our welfare cuts
THE TRUTH: Rough sleeping up 55% since 2010
We will not allow cuts to front-line services
THE TRUTH: Services are cut across the board, from nearly 500 public libraries to over 1,000 lollipop ladies
We will not cut the NHS
THE TRUTH: The NHS is forced to find £5billion of ‘efficiency savings’ – cuts by any other name
We will have head-to-head TV debates like in 2010
THE TRUTH: Cameron was too chicken to take part
Yeah, but "get Brexit done".

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Re: 350 Million

Post by Corky » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:43 am

What worries me is that there are boneheads out there that think just by saying "get Brexit done" it will be done. Leaving the EU is but the first step on what could be many many years of trade negotiations without any real chance of getting better deals than we had whilst in the EU.

I will give you a perfect example and it is ME.

I buy vinyl records from all over the world. Say I buy 5 LPs for £20 each from dealers in the EU. That's it. I pay the postage and they turn up. Once outside the EU then I will be subject to import duty of 20% which is bad enough but Customs will then employ Royal Mail to collect their bounty and they will levy an £8 handling charge. I then have to go on line to pay delaying delivery by a couple of days. And whilst this is going on the cost of all five LPs has risen from £100 to £160 excluding P&P. You go figure. Some idiots in this country.!!!!!!!!!

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Re: 350 Million

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:53 am

Corky wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:43 am
What worries me is that there are boneheads out there that think just by saying "get Brexit done" it will be done. Leaving the EU is but the first step on what could be many many years of trade negotiations without any real chance of getting better deals than we had whilst in the EU.

I will give you a perfect example and it is ME.

I buy vinyl records from all over the world. Say I buy 5 LPs for £20 each from dealers in the EU. That's it. I pay the postage and they turn up. Once outside the EU then I will be subject to import duty of 20% which is bad enough but Customs will then employ Royal Mail to collect their bounty and they will levy an £8 handling charge. I then have to go on line to pay delaying delivery by a couple of days. And whilst this is going on the cost of all five LPs has risen from £100 to £160 excluding P&P. You go figure. Some idiots in this country.!!!!!!!!!
You could get this stuff off iTunes for less than a tenner an album, immediate delivery, no delivery costs, no customs ;)

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Re: 350 Million

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:08 am

Corky wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:43 am
What worries me is that there are boneheads out there that think just by saying "get Brexit done" it will be done. Leaving the EU is but the first step on what could be many many years of trade negotiations without any real chance of getting better deals than we had whilst in the EU.

I will give you a perfect example and it is ME.

I buy vinyl records from all over the world. Say I buy 5 LPs for £20 each from dealers in the EU. That's it. I pay the postage and they turn up. Once outside the EU then I will be subject to import duty of 20% which is bad enough but Customs will then employ Royal Mail to collect their bounty and they will levy an £8 handling charge. I then have to go on line to pay delaying delivery by a couple of days. And whilst this is going on the cost of all five LPs has risen from £100 to £160 excluding P&P. You go figure. Some idiots in this country.!!!!!!!!!
No, no, no, they're not boneheads, they are fully informed and absolutely right.

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