Bank Scam Animals

[houseboy]

Unfortunately a cautionary tale. My daughter had a call on Wednesday evening from her 'bank' telling her her card had been cloned and someone had been attempting to use it. They gave her instructions on what to do and were very convincing, even telling her to go to her branch the following day to organise a new card etc. Without going into every detail she went into the bank the next morning to find it wasn't the bank who had called her and her two accounts and her ISA, totalling over 4k had been cleaned out, even causing her to go into an arranged overdraft of another 1k. If I had been there it wouldn't have happened because I know only too well about all of these things (we train regularly on them at work) but she is 23 and was panicked into it. The problem isn't the money (well it is but not for her, for me) because I have told her if she doesn't get it back, which I doubt she will, I will give her every penny of what was taken from her.
The main problem is she is a student who has worked her way through college and uni without once asking for our help, she is fiercely independent and even said at first she didn't want to take the money off me because she hadn't earned it. She has worked all hours as a gymnastics instructor all through uni so that she hasn't been a burden and has built up that money over about 5 years. She feels stupid, abused and embarrassed and that can't be cured for her by me giving her money.

My feelings toward who has done this cannot even be printed on here and it's not the money, it's what they have done to my confident, hard working, fun loving daughter, she is a total state at the moment and if I could find who had done it I would happily kill them and laugh in their faces.

Please be aware of this though as it is very common at the moment.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Banks should have better systems in place, e.g.text people to check if there's an unusual set of transactions, large withdrawals etc, as this appears to be.

[Jeremy_Bentham]

. wonders how they managed to take the money from the account?

[Tricky Trevor]

You should be able to arrange with your bank that certain accounts,eg. ISAs, are counter service only. There is far too much available online and it is not all necessary.

[houseboy]

. wonders how they managed to take the money from the account?

That's why she is so mad with herself bud, she willing and knowingly transferred it to what she thought was her other existing account. It was very complicated and convincing, she was on the phone to them for 40 minutes. When she went to the bank they told her that more of this is happening because somehow they have got hold of bank scripts and instructions and they actually say things that banks would say under such circumstances. She told them what they had said to her and the bank said that 90% of what they said was pretty much word for word what the bank would say. Apparently it is a new play on the old scheme and a lot of people are being caught out by it because they push the panic button. The main problem for my daughter is not the money, I will make sure of that, she just feels stupid and idiotic and no amount of reassurance from me or her mum is changing that.

[houseboy]

You should be able to arrange with your bank that certain accounts,eg. ISAs, are counter service only. There is far too much available online and it is not all necessary.

I went to our bank yesterday to make sure our account hadn't been compromised as she is a payee of ours but they said there is little chance of anything happening to us. But when I asked if they could stop any unlikely transactions, especially if they were not local they said they couldn't do that. I know for a fact they can and do but it is fairly random and they say they can't (or won't) do it in an arranged way. How bad is that. There was a time when you had to tell your bank if you were likely to use your card abroad but now that is not necessary either.

[Stayingup]

Unfortunately a cautionary tale. My daughter had a call on Wednesday evening from her 'bank' telling her her card had been cloned and someone had been attempting to use it. They gave her instructions on what to do and were very convincing, even telling her to go to her branch the following day to organise a new card etc. Without going into every detail she went into the bank the next morning to find it wasn't the bank who had called her and her two accounts and her ISA, totalling over 4k had been cleaned out, even causing her to go into an arranged overdraft of another 1k. If I had been there it wouldn't have happened because I know only too well about all of these things (we train regularly on them at work) but she is 23 and was panicked into it. The problem isn't the money (well it is but not for her, for me) because I have told her if she doesn't get it back, which I doubt she will, I will give her every penny of what was taken from her.
The main problem is she is a student who has worked her way through college and uni without once asking for our help, she is fiercely independent and even said at first she didn't want to take the money off me because she hadn't earned it. She has worked all hours as a gymnastics instructor all through uni so that she hasn't been a burden and has built up that money over about 5 years. She feels stupid, abused and embarrassed and that can't be cured for her by me giving her money.

My feelings toward who has done this cannot even be printed on here and it's not the money, it's what they have done to my confident, hard working, fun loving daughter, she is a total state at the moment and if I could find who had done it I would happily kill them and laugh in their faces.

Please be aware of this though as it is very common at the moment.

[Stayingup]

Unfortunately a cautionary tale. My daughter had a call on Wednesday evening from her 'bank' telling her her card had been cloned and someone had been attempting to use it. They gave her instructions on what to do and were very convincing, even telling her to go to her branch the following day to organise a new card etc. Without going into every detail she went into the bank the next morning to find it wasn't the bank who had called her and her two accounts and her ISA, totalling over 4k had been cleaned out, even causing her to go into an arranged overdraft of another 1k. If I had been there it wouldn't have happened because I know only too well about all of these things (we train regularly on them at work) but she is 23 and was panicked into it. The problem isn't the money (well it is but not for her, for me) because I have told her if she doesn't get it back, which I doubt she will, I will give her every penny of what was taken from her.
The main problem is she is a student who has worked her way through college and uni without once asking for our help, she is fiercely independent and even said at first she didn't want to take the money off me because she hadn't earned it. She has worked all hours as a gymnastics instructor all through uni so that she hasn't been a burden and has built up that money over about 5 years. She feels stupid, abused and embarrassed and that can't be cured for her by me giving her money.

My feelings toward who has done this cannot even be printed on here and it's not the money, it's what they have done to my confident, hard working, fun loving daughter, she is a total state at the moment and if I could find who had done it I would happily kill them and laugh in their faces.

Please be aware of this though as it is very common at the moment.

She obviously gave her account details to these thieves
Banks never call their clients. This should be broadcast loud and clear at every opportunity.

These thieves desreve to have their fingers chopped off.

[Stayingup]

You should be able to arrange with your bank that certain accounts,eg. ISAs, are counter service only. There is far too much available online and it is not all necessary.

I would agree but Banks are closing down branches more and more. The progressives are even trying to get rid of cash so we are cashless society.

[Stayingup]

I went to our bank yesterday to make sure our account hadn't been compromised as she is a payee of ours but they said there is little chance of anything happening to us. But when I asked if they could stop any unlikely transactions, especially if they were not local they said they couldn't do that. I know for a fact they can and do but it is fairly random and they say they can't (or won't) do it in an arranged way. How bad is that. There was a time when you had to tell your bank if you were likely to use your card abroad but now that is not necessary either.

I get a limit for a transaction put on my Credit Card when overseas, as it has been copied once in the past in Asia.

[houseboy]

She obviously gave her account details to these thieves
Banks never call their clients. This should be broadcast loud and clear at every opportunity.

These thieves desreve to have their fingers chopped off.

The cleverness of this is that they already had her bank details and quoted them to her. They asked her before the call went on to call the number on the back of her card to verify who they were. As I stated above the Natwest confirmed that they do make calls of this kind and do ask the same questions but the only thing she did wrong (and it wouldn't have happened if I 'd been there) was she transferred money to what she believed to be her own other account. Banks will never ask you to transfer money. It's a new and sophisticated scam that uses bank scripts and questions. They also press the panic button and make it seem like it's urgent. She knows it was her fault for falling for it and that is why she is so upset, she keeps saying how could I have been so stupid.

[Greenmile]

She obviously gave her account details to these thieves
Banks never call their clients. This should be broadcast loud and clear at every opportunity.

These thieves desreve to have their fingers chopped off.

This is not true.

[Bosscat]

The cleverness of this is that they already had her bank details and quoted them to her. They asked her before the call went on to call the number on the back of her card to verify who they were. As I stated above the Natwest confirmed that they do make calls of this kind and do ask the same questions but the only thing she did wrong (and it wouldn't have happened if I 'd been there) was she transferred money to what she believed to be her own other account. Banks will never ask you to transfer money. It's a new and sophisticated scam that uses bank scripts and questions. They also press the panic button and make it seem like it's urgent. She knows it was her fault for falling for it and that is why she is so upset, she keeps saying how could I have been so stupid.

The recent drama on TV "Cold Call" highlighted how these cretinous Belltards work ..... I personally treat all emails/phone calls as Scammers ... in fact I had an email today from "Tesco Bank" telling me of some anomolies on my Online Banking.... I thought your telling me there are some anomolies... I don't effing bank with them ....

One of the latest ones is an automated your bank/Credit card has been used for a £600 transaction (its always £600?) ....

A few years ago my brother walked in the Front door to find our Mother on the phone talking to "her Bank" and she was in tears because she couldn't remember her pin number.... (Thank god for that) ... we put notices by the phone that she shouldn't give any details to anyone and talk to us 1st... it was at that point we went for and got "power of Attorney" to look after her financial and health well being.

About 6 months later a similar thing happened again as soon as Mum said she would need to talk to us the phoneline went dead.

I do a lot of my banking online and if I set up a new payee I get a message on my mobile with a 6 digit number to put in online before the transaction can go ahead... then an email and an sms message informing me about the transaction.

[Stayingup]

This is not true.

Whats not true. My Bank(s) say they will never call if that is what you are referring to.

[houseboy]

The recent drama on TV "Cold Call" highlighted how these cretinous Belltards work ..... I personally treat all emails/phone calls as Scammers ... in fact I had an email today from "Tesco Bank" telling me of some anomolies on my Online Banking.... I thought your telling me there are some anomolies... I don't effing bank with them ....

One of the latest ones is an automated your bank/Credit card has been used for a £600 transaction (its always £600?) ....

A few years ago my brother walked in the Front door to find our Mother on the phone talking to "her Bank" and she was in tears because she couldn't remember her pin number.... (Thank god for that) ... we put notices by the phone that she shouldn't give any details to anyone and talk to us 1st... it was at that point we went for and got "power of Attorney" to look after her financial and health well being.

About 6 months later a similar thing happened again as soon as Mum said she would need to talk to us the phoneline went dead.

I do a lot of my banking online and if I set up a new payee I get a message on my mobile with a 6 digit number to put in online before the transaction can go ahead... then an email and an sms message informing me about the transaction.

I have had a couple of e-mails from 'Paypal' asking me to click on a link because of something wrong with my account. I have on both occasions called Paypal to tell them of this, assuming it to be what it was, a scam, and they have thanked me both times and asked me to forward the e-mail, unopened of course, to their fraud department, they are very active in trying to prevent this kind of thing. It is still, I believe, the safest way to pay for things online and will always use it if it is an option.

[FactualFrank]

With regards to phishing emails, I only check them on my home computer (I don't use emails on mobile phone) and always hover my mouse over the link first to see if it's sending me to where it's supposed, such as paypal.com - you can also right click the link and paste it into Notepad and first see where it would take you if you did click the link.

Also a good option is to open up the browser and go to the website directly. So open up the browser and go to paypal.com

[Greenmile]

Whats not true. My Bank(s) say they will never call if that is what you are referring to.

Banks call their customers all the time, for all sorts of reasons, such as to check whether a suspicious transaction is genuine. I just think it’s important not to spread misinformation on a thread like this - not that I’m saying you were doing it deliberately, of course.

[Whitgord]

These scams are getting more difficult to spot I doubt. Someone I know was recently scammed and one of the things that they were (eventually) asked to enter was a “one time passcode” that they had just received on their mobile. In lots of ways that seemed genuine. Fortunately my friend managed to speak to the bank before any damage was done but the bank were not pleased that my friend had got as far as they did with the scammers. The bank actually cancelled the faulty withdrawal this time but warned that they would not always do so as they cannot be sure my friend is not working with the scammers. Very scary. Be very very cautious.

[FactualFrank]

These scams are getting more difficult to spot I doubt. Someone I know was recently scammed and one of the things that they were (eventually) asked to enter was a “one time passcode” that they had just received on their mobile. In lots of ways that seemed genuine. Fortunately my friend managed to speak to the bank before any damage was done but the bank were not pleased that my friend had got as far as they did with the scammers. The bank actually cancelled the faulty withdrawal this time but warned that they would not always do so as they cannot be sure my friend is not working with the scammers. Very scary. Be very very cautious.

That's called Two-factor authentication (2FA) and is becoming increasingly more common for security purposes. It's basically, "what you know" and "what you have" - which is why some banks will send one time pin numbers if you set up an online payment in your online banking to someone new.

The idea is, the person can know your password but still needs access to the phone - so people doing this scam need the one time passcode. But with that there's also the SIM swap scam, where they get access to the passcode being sent to your number.

The best 2FA at the moment is where you need to use an app which randomly changes passcodes every X seconds. You log in to a website, and it then asks for the code which is on the app. This is more secure than texts to phones because it's more about the phone, than the person's phone number.

[brunlea99]

As a general rule, if you get any such call from anyone purporting to be your bank asking out of the blue, for you to move money etc. tell the caller that as a security precaution, you are going to ring them (your Bank) directly to confirm the details. Don't let them give you a number but call to the number on your card or bank statement. If the caller tries to deter you from this then that is a good indication that things are not right. It is important that you call from a separate telephone number as some scammers have a trick whereby, if you ring back from the same number they can hijack the call. Thus, you can confirm if the caller is a scammer.

[FactualFrank]

What also annoys me is when someone such as your mobile phone provider call and even though it's genuine, they begin the call by wanting to confirm some security questions - I don't think so pal.

[joey13]

Your daughter may get the money back , it’s worth asking the question

[Bfcboyo]

Beggars belief. How do they even get them to sign up for bank accounts and where does the money come from. Poor creatures.

[Blackrod]

Easily done I’m sure even though you feel stupid afterwards. The elderly are most vulnerable but a lot of younger people have grown up with online banking, ease of payment and not checking anything. I had a credit card cloned just from using it online and the thieves went on a very expensive Caribbean holiday. They were caught in this case.

[houseboy]

Whats not true. My Bank(s) say they will never call if that is what you are referring to.

I don't know who you bank with bud but they do make these calls. I have had a few genuine calls off my bank about certain transactions. The Natwest confirmed to my daughter that they make calls of this kind. I think where you may be getting confused is they say they will never ask for your pin number nor will they ask you to transfer money but they most assuredly do make calls, the Natwest even said the scammers now use bank scripts when calling.

[houseboy]

As a general rule, if you get any such call from anyone purporting to be your bank asking out of the blue, for you to move money etc. tell the caller that as a security precaution, you are going to ring them (your Bank) directly to confirm the details. Don't let them give you a number but call to the number on your card or bank statement. If the caller tries to deter you from this then that is a good indication that things are not right. It is important that you call from a separate telephone number as some scammers have a trick whereby, if you ring back from the same number they can hijack the call. Thus, you can confirm if the caller is a scammer.

That is exacly what they did with my daughter. They encouraged her to call the number on the card but didn't hang up and there is the trick.

[houseboy]

What also annoys me is when someone such as your mobile phone provider call and even though it's genuine, they begin the call by wanting to confirm some security questions - I don't think so pal.

I think in those cases though it's usually asking you to confirm a random character from the passcode. They cannot (at a genuine company) actually see the password themselves.

[FactualFrank]

That is exacly what they did with my daughter. They encouraged her to call the number on the card but didn't hang up and there is the trick.

Did they call a landline? I've heard of the trick where the scammers stay on the line and then when the victim calls the new number, they don't actually call anybody, and then the scammer comes back on and pretends to be the bank. But thought with mobiles, when you cancel the call, it's ended.

[houseboy]

Your daughter may get the money back , it’s worth asking the question

It is being investigated and we'll see what happens. She won't lose out, I've told her I will give her all that she has lost and she can pay me back only if and when she gets anything back. More than the money though she has lost some self respect because she is an intelligent and hard working lass and feels she has let herself down. This happened 3 days ago and she is still trying to come to terms with it. We keep telling her it's only money, nobody got hurt or died.

[houseboy]

Did they call a landline? I've heard of the trick where the scammers stay on the line and then when the victim calls the new number, they don't actually call anybody, and then the scammer comes back on and pretends to be the bank. But thought with mobiles, when you cancel the call, it's ended.

I'm not sure bud I wasn't there (unfortunately). Whatever they did or how they did it, it was still very complex, they didn't rush and she was on the phone for 40 minutes.

Advice from my bank: if you get a call saying they are from your bank and it seems in the least dodgy do not ask any questions, do not in any way engage in conversation, do not even say you are going to callback. Simply hang up and then leave it a few minutes before calling your bank and asking if it was them. THAT IS THE OFFICIAL ADVICE FROM THE YORKSHIRE BANK.

[FactualFrank]

Another one to watch out for is when someone calls and the number on the phone is actually the same number of the bank. There's ways scammers will do that so you think, "Well it must be the bank as I know that's their number".

[Bosscat]

This is taken direct from NatWests online banking and was a warning before I could log in.....

With the festive season upon us things can get busier than usual. It's the perfect time for fraudsters to trick you into parting with your money.

- Christmas Shopping Online - Always do your research on the seller. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
- Season's Greetings - Scammers may target you and pretend to be from the Bank, the Police or other organisations you trust. We will NEVER call you and ask you to transfer money, hand over your security credentials or use your card reader.
- Gifts - Fraudsters may send emails which look to include a gift but include viruses. Never open unexpected emails from unknown senders and always make sure your antivirus software is up to date.

[Healeywoodclaret]

The cleverness of this is that they already had her bank details and quoted them to her. They asked her before the call went on to call the number on the back of her card to verify who they were. As I stated above the Natwest confirmed that they do make calls of this kind and do ask the same questions but the only thing she did wrong (and it wouldn't have happened if I 'd been there) was she transferred money to what she believed to be her own other account. Banks will never ask you to transfer money. It's a new and sophisticated scam that uses bank scripts and questions. They also press the panic button and make it seem like it's urgent. She knows it was her fault for falling for it and that is why she is so upset, she keeps saying how could I have been so stupid.
[/quotAww your heart goes out to her. Only 23. But a very valuable lesson for her. Some lessons are expensive ones. It is well documented that when asked by a caller to transfer money NEVER do it. I only recently watched Cold Call with Sally Lindsay and these despicable toerags set themselves up in such a way that they are getting away with professional scams.

[evensteadiereddie]

We are told time after time not to give bank account details to ANYONE over the phone. If you do - whatever the excuse - you waive any right to a refund and you can see the bank's point.
A harsh lesson indeed but one we can all learn from.

[Aclaret]

We are told time after time not to give bank account details to ANYONE over the phone. If you do - whatever the excuse - you waive any right to a refund and you can see the bank's point.
A harsh lesson indeed but one we can all learn from.

That's absolutely right evensteadiereddie, it's very difficult though trying to educate my parents who are both in their 80s and confused. But I guess these vermin prey on the likes of my parents.

[tim_noone]

I don't have a bank ...tired of listening to all these scamming tales and online fraud etc. And direct debit issues money being taken out to suit whoever is after it etc. Fines if your overdrawn a pound I could go on and on......but the public think it's fine as we head towards a cashless society Que Sera.

[Billy Balfour]

Never just bin or recycle anything with your bank account details on it. Either shred first or destroy.

[FactualFrank]

Never just bin or recycle anything with your bank account details on it. Either shred first or destroy.

Something I certainly need to do more of, you're right.

[Ilkley claret]

Houseboy

Please tell your daughter not to feel bad about this, she is a victim and not the only one.

One of my clients who is a very senior business was done in exactly the same way.

These people knew when they rang him all of his recent transactions, theatre tickets he’d bought etc, so he was totally convinced that it was his bank calling.

[Hendrickxz]

I get at least three calls a week from jokers telling me they are from BT, the bank, credit card company, etc. I tell then they aren't, they are scammers and they should eff off. I keep repeating it until they put the phone down. Not very nice of me I know, but it sure is effective¬!

[houseboy]

We are told time after time not to give bank account details to ANYONE over the phone. If you do - whatever the excuse - you waive any right to a refund and you can see the bank's point.
A harsh lesson indeed but one we can all learn from.

She's had a very long conversation with her bank yesterday and there is a distinct possibility that she could get the money back on the basis that she didn't give any information at all to them, and the guy who she spoke to at the bank said she had no reason to think she wasn't talking to them. He confirmed again that everything that was said to her was what they would say, apart from asking her to move money. They didn't even ask for her PIN, which of course is the correct procedure. The bank have actually been very sympathetic to her and are helping her a great deal.

What he did say was how professional these set ups now are. They actually work from foreign call centres in places like China, India and (oddly) Mexico but they work under a cover of being something else. He said the guy she spoke to over the phone probably made very little money from what he had done. They are highly trained and work like any other ordinary organisation. I found it quite alarming that these places are allowed to operate at all. She said he didn't sound foreign and the chap at the bank said they even school them in near perfect English and provide accurate bank scripts to help them.

Give me a room and 5 minutes with a f*ckin baseball bat - I'd show the f*cker what 'making nothing out of it' means.

[FactualFrank]

So do the bank actually know what sort of information actually did change hands? I don't expect the PIN would have been needed anyway, but they clearly got enough info to do the process. I'd be interested to know how little they need to do this con.

[houseboy]

Never just bin or recycle anything with your bank account details on it. Either shred first or destroy.

I destroy everything totally when it is out of date - I even cut through the middle of the card number so it can't be put together, and put the bits in seperate bins.

[houseboy]

Houseboy

Please tell your daughter not to feel bad about this, she is a victim and not the only one.

One of my clients who is a very senior business was done in exactly the same way.

These people knew when they rang him all of his recent transactions, theatre tickets he’d bought etc, so he was totally convinced that it was his bank calling.

She is coming to terms with it now bud. For her it's never been about the money as she knows that I will make sure she doesn't suffer - I'm gonna give her everything back if she can't get it back. Her problem is she is an intelligent and pretty clued up person and she is distraught that she has been done over this way. The first thing me and her mum said was 'it's only money' but she doesn't see it that way. It took her 5 years of working through college and uni (she's in her final year and working on a placement just now) as well as holding down a job to pay for herself to get that money and she was proud of not having to rely on us or anyone else and it's just like someone has pulled the rug from under her.

[houseboy]

So do the bank actually know what sort of information actually did change hands? I don't expect the PIN would have been needed anyway, but they clearly got enough info to do the process. I'd be interested to know how little they need to do this con.

This is why she was done over so easily and why the bank are trying to help her so much. The amount of information they had was nothing short of stunning. This is why I brought it up on here because people should know that there are people out there now who know unbelievable amounts about us and we all have to be very wary. This is no scaremongering conspiracy theory (I wish it was) it is very real and everyone now has to be suspicious of any phone call at all. My daughter is fortunate in that I can bale her out but many aren't so lucky.

[FactualFrank]

This is why she was done over so easily and why the bank are trying to help her so much. The amount of information they had was nothing short of stunning. This is why I brought it up on here because people should know that there are people out there now who know unbelievable amounts about us and we all have to be very wary. This is no scaremongering conspiracy theory (I wish it was) it is very real and everyone now has to be suspicious of any phone call at all. My daughter is fortunate in that I can bale her out but many aren't so lucky.

Do you know anything that she remembers giving them, however small?
So nothing private was given such as long number on a card, sort code, account number, mother's maiden name etc?

I think the fact you mentioned 40 minutes is important here. It sounds like a jigsaw, and they took pieces here and there over the 40 minutes to put it together.

[houseboy]

Do you know anything that she remembers giving them, however small?
So nothing private was given such as long number on a card, sort code, account number, mother's maiden name etc?

I think the fact you mentioned 40 minutes is important here. It sounds like a jigsaw, and they took pieces here and there over the 40 minutes to put it together.

Looking back at it in the way I tend to do (I am overly analytical about things at times) the only information they got off her was to confirm what they already said. They obviously take a punt and I'm sure that many times a day they will be knocked back. They appear to work in the same way that alleged fortune tellers work, by 'confirming' very generalised questions that a bank would do (information that is fairly readily available). They already knew the area she lived in for instance. They then move on to more specific stuff but all the time only getting her to 'confirm' things, the fact that they knew so much was what got her caught out. They got her to move her money to an account that was hers but somehow intercepted it. What they at no point did (and I have been over it with her so many times) was ask for any account details, no PIN, no account number or sort code, nothing. Even the bank said they know what is happening but they are as yet not clear as to how they do it, other than getting people to give certain information WITHOUT ACTUALLY ASKING FOR IT. To be fair as someone who has made a living on the phone in one capacity or another for 30 odd years if it wasn't for hating what they do I would admire the way they do it.
Everyone says 'it would never happen to me' and we all like to think we are savvy enough to be safe, but these barstewards are becoming so professional and organised that everyone is at risk.
I can only repeat the advice given by my bank:
If you get a call off your 'bank' don't enter into any conversation at all, don't ask any questions and certainly don't answer any. Don't even tell them you are going to call back. Just hang up, leave it a few minutes then call your bank to verify. It may well be that it is your bank calling you but they would rather you do this than you get ripped off.

[FactualFrank]

If they did indeed intercept it mid-transfer then that's surely the bank's security system at fault.

[Bosscat]

This is why she was done over so easily and why the bank are trying to help her so much. The amount of information they had was nothing short of stunning. This is why I brought it up on here because people should know that there are people out there now who know unbelievable amounts about us and we all have to be very wary. This is no scaremongering conspiracy theory (I wish it was) it is very real and everyone now has to be suspicious of any phone call at all. My daughter is fortunate in that I can bale her out but many aren't so lucky.

Thing is house so many people share everything on facebook twitter etc etc these days.....

[houseboy]

Thing is house so many people share everything on facebook twitter etc etc these days.....

You could have a very valid point there mate. I have a FB account but hardly ever post anything (I just keep an eye on others).