Next labour leader?

[Devils_Advocate]

I see Lisa Nandy han't wasted any time laying the boot in to Johnson's Brexit plan

https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/12 ... 8635628546

[Volvoclaret]

Why continue this discussion Labour is dead, deceased, gone to red heaven. It is a dead party.

[Middle-agedClaret]

Jacqueline Jossa could do a job for them.

[If it be your will]

Why continue this discussion Labour is dead, deceased, gone to red heaven. It is a dead party.

1997 Tory seats: 165
2001 Tory seats: 166
2005 Tory seats: 198

(2019 Labour seats: 202)

[If it be your will]

...or for some perspective between New Labour v Corbyn Labour:

Blair 2005: votes 9,552,436
Brown 2010: votes 8,609,527
Miliband 2015: votes 9,347,273

Corbyn 2017: votes 12,878,460
Corbyn 2019: votes 10,269,076

[AndrewJB]

Johnson has gone back on his minimum wage promise, and stripped away protections for workers and the environment in the Brexit bill, along with elements of parliamentary involvement. Man of the people, feeding the people a shitsandwich.

[Rowls]

Next labour leader?

How about the best person for the job, regardless of sex/religion/ skin colour etc.

McDonnell now spouting it should be a woman. Utterly bizarre.

It would be bizarre except he is only thinking of one woman in particular. So of coruse he thinks the next leader should be a woman.

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

It would be bizarre except he is only thinking of one woman in particular. So of coruse he thinks the next leader should be a woman.

Jess Phillips right?

[claretandy]

I see Lisa Nandy han't wasted any time laying the boot in to Johnson's Brexit plan

https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/12 ... 8635628546

So she still won't support Brexit, who knew ?

[taio]

Johnson has gone back on his minimum wage promise, and stripped away protections for workers and the environment in the Brexit bill, along with elements of parliamentary involvement. Man of the people, feeding the people a shitsandwich.

On future increases to the minimum wage, it should be obvious why it is important that they are dependent on economic conditions at the time. The Low Pay Commission is clear on the need for this:

"To ensure the ongoing credibility of the NLW, the LPC’s independence and discretion to depart from a target must be safeguarded. And we must be free to look at the full range of available evidence in reaching a judgement on whether the target is achievable. If economic conditions are not favourable, we must have the flexibility to recommend varying the path and end date of any target."

[deanothedino]

So she still won't support Brexit, who knew ?

It's worse than that because she's already voted for this deal and voted multiple times against a referendum to get an alternative solution. So she basically hasn't been thinking about it until now, blindly voted for it without reading it, voted against any way to get a different solution and now she's complaining she doesn't like it.

Idiot

[deanothedino]

...or for some perspective between New Labour v Corbyn Labour:

Blair 2005: votes 9,552,436
Brown 2010: votes 8,609,527
Miliband 2015: votes 9,347,273

Corbyn 2017: votes 12,878,460
Corbyn 2019: votes 10,269,076

Corbyn is benefitting from a higher turnout and larger electorate too though.

[If it be your will]

Corbyn is benefitting from a higher turnout and larger electorate too though.

He can surely take credit for the higher turnout. And even his 2019 share of the vote was higher than Brown and Miliband.

[nil_desperandum]

So she still won't support Brexit, who knew ?

What do you mean?. She is one of the few Labour MPs, who has consistently and continuously supported leaving the EU and opposing a 2nd referendum. (That's why she kept her seat - I assume).
She has voted for the deal.
Obviously she now opposes Johnson's "new deal" since it wasn't the deal that passed its 2nd reading a few weeks ago.
The deal going to the Commons now has all the protections removed that people like Nandy fought to retain

[deanothedino]

He can surely take credit for the higher turnout. And even his 2019 share of the vote was higher than Brown and Miliband.

He can a little, but it was lower than last time and it's probably higher due to Brexit too.

His share was bigger than those two but it doesn't matter much if you get decimated in seats.

[aggi]

It's worse than that because she's already voted for this deal and voted multiple times against a referendum to get an alternative solution. So she basically hasn't been thinking about it until now, blindly voted for it without reading it, voted against any way to get a different solution and now she's complaining she doesn't like it.

Idiot

Not really. The deal has been amended from what it was. As many "mystic" posters predicted they've taken the opportunity of a large majority to row back on things like workers' rights and environmental protections.

[Top Claret]

Johnson has gone back on his minimum wage promise, and stripped away protections for workers and the environment in the Brexit bill, along with elements of parliamentary involvement. Man of the people, feeding the people a shitsandwich.

Good that will keep my investments ticking over nicely, the financial markets will love that

[nil_desperandum]

Good that will keep my investments ticking over nicely, the financial markets will love that

I'm sure that's exactly why all those ex-Labour voters turned blue last week. They'll be rubbing their hands as they thumb through the pages of the FT this morning.

[deanothedino]

Not really. The deal has been amended from what it was. As many "mystic" posters predicted they've taken the opportunity of a large majority to row back on things like workers' rights and environmental protections.

Stevie Wonder could have seen that coming. She's still an idiot.

[aggi]

Stevie Wonder could have seen that coming. She's still an idiot.

Agreed, some people seem inordinately proud of predicting stuff though. Plus there were lots of posters on here saying it certainly wasn't something to worry about.

I can't say I've seen enough to know whether she's an idiot or not, refusing to vote for a changed Brexit deal doesn't make her one though.

[deanothedino]

Agreed, some people seem inordinately proud of predicting stuff though. Plus there were lots of posters on here saying it certainly wasn't something to worry about.

I can't say I've seen enough to know whether she's an idiot or not, refusing to vote for a changed Brexit deal doesn't make her one though.

There probably was.

At the end of the day though, in my opinion, her voting behaviour led directly to an election that shouldn't have happened - an election that has given the Tories the strength to put through whatever deal they want. It can be as **** as they like.

[aggi]

On the election numbers, it's intersting to see how the parties performed in terms of pure votes as well as seats.

I was expecting a much more significant increase in conservative votes given the result but they only increased their vote by a couple of percent compared to the previous election.

Looking at the figures it seems more a case of Labour losing the election than the conservatives winning it. It doesn't look like that many (relatively) voters went over to the Tories but a lot just didn't vote at all (maybe those who didn't want to vote for Corbyn but couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Conservatives?).

The first task for the new leader will probably be to regain those lost votes before they try and eat into the conservative lead.

The labour position on proportional representation will also be interesting. A lot of the members are for it (although whether that's a reaction to the election result I'm not sure) and it would certainly benefit them more than the conservatives at the moment. Labour standing on a PR ticket in the next election would shake things up as it's something the Lib Dems and SNP also want.

Annotation 2019-12-20 115255.jpg (75.04 KiB) Viewed 2717 times

[RingoMcCartney]

You can quote it again but it doesn't make it truer.

I'd say the disconnect has got worse.

Thursday April 4th 2019 2.04 pm


So when those millions of disaffected voters either chose to no longer vote, or vote for what will inevitably labelled, by the pious , holier than thou, self - confirming, intellectual metropolitan bubble dwellers "populist".

They'll only have themselves to blame as they look on bewildered, at the dramatically altered political landscape.

Their splendid London-centric isolation will be complete....

Thursday April 4th 2019 2.04 pm

Since then they lost Bolsover and Burnley!

Gained Putney. A rather nice part of where!? London of course!!

Mystic McCartney strikes again

[RingoMcCartney]

Labour - their deluded followers claim,

"Labours policies were really , really popular"

Question from Ringo McCartney-

"If Labours policies had not been "really popular". Just how bad would their general election result have been!!!???"

[aggi]

Looks like RIngo's one man mission to make any thread on politics all about him is gathering pace. Next he'll be telling us all about how he predicted the second referendum that Bercow forced.

[RingoMcCartney]

Looks like RIngo's one man mission to make any thread on politics all about him is gathering pace. Next he'll be telling us all about how he predicted the second referendum that Bercow forced.

Looks like there's still no sign of aggi slowing down his inability to let the penny drop, and give credit where credits due, that many of the things I said would happen , did and have happened.

Bercow was kept in place in order to facilitate a 2nd referendum, as part of an orchestrated effort on many many fronts. The fact it failed , still doesn't discredit my thoughts of him keeping his job.

What people like you and him didn't count on was, as Claret on a trex, loved to say. "The intelligent people would be brought in to repair the damage caused by the stupid!"

Enter Boris Johnson and crucially , the genius, Dominic Cummings!!

They helped to confirm my biggest and best prediction.

Despite the treasonous, duplicitous and treacherous behaviour of the political class, the establishment and the dwellers of the metropolitan London borough of Ivory Towers. Democracy would prevail, the Will of the People would be implemented, and we would leave your precious European Union!!!

I was right wasnt I aggi!?

[AndrewJB]

On the election numbers, it's intersting to see how the parties performed in terms of pure votes as well as seats.

I was expecting a much more significant increase in conservative votes given the result but they only increased their vote by a couple of percent compared to the previous election.

Looking at the figures it seems more a case of Labour losing the election than the conservatives winning it. It doesn't look like that many (relatively) voters went over to the Tories but a lot just didn't vote at all (maybe those who didn't want to vote for Corbyn but couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Conservatives?).

The first task for the new leader will probably be to regain those lost votes before they try and eat into the conservative lead.

The labour position on proportional representation will also be interesting. A lot of the members are for it (although whether that's a reaction to the election result I'm not sure) and it would certainly benefit them more than the conservatives at the moment. Labour standing on a PR ticket in the next election would shake things up as it's something the Lib Dems and SNP also want.

Annotation 2019-12-20 115255.jpg

That’s Cummings’ team probably. Identifying and targeting that small fraction of voters to make the difference.

[AndrewJB]

Looks like there's still no sign of aggi slowing down his inability to let the penny drop, and give credit where credits due, that many of the things I said would happen , did and have happened.

Bercow was kept in place in order to facilitate a 2nd referendum, as part of an orchestrated effort on many many fronts. The fact it failed , still doesn't discredit my thoughts of him keeping his job.

What people like you and him didn't count on was, as Claret on a trex, loved to say. "The intelligent people would be brought in to repair the damage caused by the stupid!"

Enter Boris Johnson and crucially , the genius, Dominic Cummings!!

They helped to confirm my biggest and best prediction.

Despite the treasonous, duplicitous and treacherous behaviour of the political class, the establishment and the dwellers of the metropolitan London borough of Ivory Towers. Democracy would prevail, the Will of the People would be implemented, and we would leave your precious European Union!!!

I was right wasnt I aggi!?

Fancy a prediction on what Brexit will do to the economy?

[clarethomer]

Fancy a prediction on what Brexit will do to the economy?

Bit of a poor question that anyone would be able to measure...

Rarely anyone can predict the economy full stop.

What I would say is regardless of brexit, the economy is likely to remain cyclical and there will be ups and downs. Countries inside the EU aren't protected from these cyclical economic events either.

[RingoMcCartney]

Fancy a prediction on what Brexit will do to the economy?

Who knows. Nobody knows. But I'll predict you wont answer this!


Add a simple yes or no, AndrewJB .


Do you genuinely believe that all those people that have voted Tory, for the very first time, in generations, have got it wrong. Where as you AndrewJB are unique in knowing what was better for them, and they should've listened to you all along , as you were right !?

They were wrong . Hundreds of thousands of them. You were right?

Yes



Or



No?

[RingoMcCartney]

As the London centric, Islington dinner party, formerly known as the labour party, sticks 2 fingers up to its former heartlands, by totally ignoring their instruction on leaving the EU. Its -

Ayes to the right - 358

Noes to the left -234.

Final score.

Ringo McCartneys brexiteer all stars 1. Democracy hating remoaners 0

Never in doubt!

[ksrclaret]

As the London centric, Islington dinner party, formerly known as the labour party, sticks 2 fingers up to its former heartlands, by totally ignoring their instruction on leaving the EU. Its -

Ayes to the right - 358

Noes to the left -234.

Final score.

Ringo McCartneys brexiteer all stars 1. Democracy hating remoaners 0

Never in doubt!

Mystic McCartney pops up again

[claretandy]

So she still won't support Brexit, who knew ?

Confirmed, this will come back to bite her in the leadership election.

[AndrewJB]

Who knows. Nobody knows. But I'll predict you wont answer this!


Add a simple yes or no, AndrewJB .


Do you genuinely believe that all those people that have voted Tory, for the very first time, in generations, have got it wrong. Where as you AndrewJB are unique in knowing what was better for them, and they should've listened to you all along , as you were right !?

They were wrong . Hundreds of thousands of them. You were right?

Yes



Or



No?

Is the fact Johnson has broken his promise on minimum wage, and stripping out workers rights and environmental standards from the Brexit bill a good thing for working class people who voted Tory, or a bad thing?

[clarethomer]

Is the fact Johnson has broken his promise on minimum wage, and stripping out workers rights and environmental standards from the Brexit bill a good thing for working class people who voted Tory, or a bad thing?

Failure to answer another question AndrewJB by asking another one... Are you actually a politician?

I don't know why you are getting your knickers in a twist about these things being removed from the withdrawal bill - they were only in there to try and work with Labour in delivering what Parliament had agreed to deliver by invoking article 50.

Now there is no need to have these in here, as Boris doesn't need labour...

It is at this point that I would draw your attention to https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... ember-2019

There is nothing in there that tells me that your view has any merit whatsoever..

- There is a commitment to increase the national living wage
- There is a commitment to have environmental protection in there.

When you stop looking to just criticise everything and anything that doesn't have a labour badge attached to it, you will actually agree that all of these things will get 'Bills' of their own rather than being part of the withdrawal bill...

Once again, it just confirms why those yet to be indoctrinated by the extreme left decided Labour wasn't a party to be trusted with the keys to this country

[RingoMcCartney]

As I predicted!

I'll predict you wont answer this!

Do you genuinely believe that all those people that have voted Tory, for the very first time, in generations, have got it wrong. Where as you AndrewJB are unique in knowing what was better for them, and they should've listened to you all along , as you were right !?

They were wrong . Hundreds of thousands of them. You were right?

Yes



Or



No?


You didn't!


Mystic McCartney strikes again!

[RingoMcCartney]

Is the fact Johnson has broken his promise on minimum wage, and stripping out workers rights and environmental standards from the Brexit bill a good thing for working class people who voted Tory, or a bad thing?

As I predicted!

I'll predict you wont answer this!

Do you genuinely believe that all those people that have voted Tory, for the very first time, in generations, have got it wrong. Where as you AndrewJB are unique in knowing what was better for them, and they should've listened to you all along , as you were right !?

They were wrong . Hundreds of thousands of them. You were right?

Yes



Or



No?


You didn't.


Mystic McCartney strikes again!

[AndrewJB]

Failure to answer another question AndrewJB by asking another one... Are you actually a politician?

I don't know why you are getting your knickers in a twist about these things being removed from the withdrawal bill - they were only in there to try and work with Labour in delivering what Parliament had agreed to deliver by invoking article 50.

Now there is no need to have these in here, as Boris doesn't need labour...

It is at this point that I would draw your attention to https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... ember-2019

There is nothing in there that tells me that your view has any merit whatsoever..

- There is a commitment to increase the national living wage
- There is a commitment to have environmental protection in there.

When you stop looking to just criticise everything and anything that doesn't have a labour badge attached to it, you will actually agree that all of these things will get 'Bills' of their own rather than being part of the withdrawal bill...

Once again, it just confirms why those yet to be indoctrinated by the extreme left decided Labour wasn't a party to be trusted with the keys to this country

You suggested before that my question to him couldn't be answered, yet expect me to answer his impossible one? How would I know why the tens of thousands of working class people voted Tory?

As for Johnson, he's clearly going back on his promises, and commitments. The minimum wage will now increase "only if economically viable" - whatever that means (regardless of how viable the wage is for the person earning it). Why else dislocate the worker and environmental elements from brexit unless they want to make them different from those of the EU? Johnson might owe something to the people who leant him their vote, but those he and his party work for are the ones who gave his campaign millions of pounds.

[Darthlaw]

"only if economically viable" - whatever that means

Spoken like a true Corbynista.

To dumb it down for you, that means you give the stuff which the economy can afford. Had Labour tried that strategy, as opposed to the carte blanche “free stuff for everyone, don’t worry how we’ll pay for it” approach, they may have faired better in the last election.

Jezza can tend to the money forest though, in time for the next GE.

[AndrewJB]

Spoken like a true Corbynista.

To dumb it down for you, that means you give the stuff which the economy can afford. Had Labour tried that strategy, as opposed to the carte blanche “free stuff for everyone, don’t worry how we’ll pay for it” approach, they may have faired better in the last election.

Jezza can tend to the money forest though, in time for the next GE.

To continue on the "dumb" level, then why did he not include the caveat when making the promise to raise minimum wage in the first place? He's had what he wants from northern working class voters, and now he's back to serving those who fund his party.

[taio]

You suggested before that my question to him couldn't be answered, yet expect me to answer his impossible one? How would I know why the tens of thousands of working class people voted Tory?

As for Johnson, he's clearly going back on his promises, and commitments. The minimum wage will now increase "only if economically viable" - whatever that means (regardless of how viable the wage is for the person earning it). Why else dislocate the worker and environmental elements from brexit unless they want to make them different from those of the EU? Johnson might owe something to the people who leant him their vote, but those he and his party work for are the ones who gave his campaign millions of pounds.

I'm pretty sure it was "provided economic conditions allow" not "only if economically viable". Either way it's pretty obvious what it means. And why on earth would you have a problem with it? It's exactly the flexibility the Low Pay Commission insists on.

[AndrewJB]

I'm pretty sure it was "provided economic conditions allow" not "only if economically viable". Either way it's pretty obvious what it means. And why on earth would you have a problem with it? It's exactly the flexibility the Low Pay Commission insists on.

He's inserted a get out clause to a campaign promise. Only two weeks after the election.

[clarethomer]

You suggested before that my question to him couldn't be answered, yet expect me to answer his impossible one? How would I know why the tens of thousands of working class people voted Tory?

As for Johnson, he's clearly going back on his promises, and commitments. The minimum wage will now increase "only if economically viable" - whatever that means (regardless of how viable the wage is for the person earning it). Why else dislocate the worker and environmental elements from brexit unless they want to make them different from those of the EU? Johnson might owe something to the people who leant him their vote, but those he and his party work for are the ones who gave his campaign millions of pounds.

To be fair, his question was a loaded one and you clearly could have answered yes to his question, as it's quite clear you think they were wrong to vote tory... That is your opinion and one no one can argue with, much as no one can argue with Ringo's opinion as it is just that.

If you are saying that you can't answer if they were right or wrong to do this, then that again would have been a fair answer because no one knows whether they were right or wrong and this is what is causing all of this to and fro - between you and Ringo you are trying to conclude something that clearly won't be concluded as its too based on opinions. However, it does appear that more of the electorate acted in the manner in which Ringo said.

In terms of promises...He hasn't gone back on anything in terms of what he promises.

I would rather have independent bills around workers protections, environmental issues etc than try and tie in with a wider brexit bill.

If they are independent, my understanding would be that it helps with Brexit as there are less things to conclude as part of those discussions but equally these things are things in which the country and still hold the government to account on.

It should have been expected that as soon as other parties were not needed to move Brexit forward, why would they want to engage in more 'dither and delay' (to use the words of Boris). There were multiple calls and opportunities to engage and support the government by moving from the impossible red lines the opposition had in place - which regardless of how they were dressed up, they were clearly party politics and about leveraging their ability to paralyse government and to frustrate the will of 17.4m people.

[taio]

He's inserted a get out clause to a campaign promise. Only two weeks after the election.

The government doesn't need to insert a get out clause. A manifesto only sets out a party's intentions and aims; it's obviously not legally binding so no need for such a clause. Seems pretty reasonable for the Low Pay Commission to want to have regard to the economic conditions. Hopefully the Tories will deliver on the proposal to increase in the National Living Wage to two thirds of average earnings, but if they don't you can criticise them then.

[clarethomer]

He's inserted a get out clause to a campaign promise. Only two weeks after the election.

Where as Jeremy started spending more money on WASPI women which somehow couldn't be found for in their 'fully costed' manifesto. It was only a £58bn oversight

[Stayingup]

He was.


I’m upset labour are not electable yes. Most traditional labour voters are. Are you a traditional Tory voter?

Thats for me to know.

[Nonayforever]

The next labour leader will be the one who suggests nationalising the supermarkets & gives away free food.

[dsr]

Why else dislocate the worker and environmental elements from brexit unless they want to make them different from those of the EU?

I'm surprised that you would want UK rights to be the same as the EU. 8 fewer days holiday, no minimum wage, no sick pay, 14 weeks maternity leave.

[Taffy on the wing]

Johnson has gone back on his minimum wage promise, and stripped away protections for workers and the environment in the Brexit bill, along with elements of parliamentary involvement. Man of the people, feeding the people a shitsandwich.

The man is a Pathological liar!....expect more of the same.
Also expect to see him on the front page, dressed in a different outfit every day....Fireman, Baker, candlestick maker etc.
Distract, deceive, divide ...repeat!

[Taffy on the wing]

Bit of a poor question that anyone would be able to measure...

Rarely anyone can predict the economy full stop.

What I would say is regardless of brexit, the economy is likely to remain cyclical and there will be ups and downs. Countries inside the EU aren't protected from these cyclical economic events either.

"Have the new paper clips arrived yet Enid ? "