Second Scottish Referendum
-
- Posts: 1071
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:19 pm
- Been Liked: 385 times
- Has Liked: 16 times
Second Scottish Referendum
Why can’t they have one?
If they lose again they will presumably shut up unless they go for best of five.
If they win - is anybody bothered?
What would it cost the rest of us if they went alone, or would we actually benefit?
It might be neck and neck so perhaps we should let all of the UK vote as it affects us all - it certainly won’t be neck and neck then I would guess.
If they lose again they will presumably shut up unless they go for best of five.
If they win - is anybody bothered?
What would it cost the rest of us if they went alone, or would we actually benefit?
It might be neck and neck so perhaps we should let all of the UK vote as it affects us all - it certainly won’t be neck and neck then I would guess.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Fair play to em, if I were up there I wouldn't want to be ruled by the Tories either. They care even less about Scitland than they do the North of England.
These 2 users liked this post: IanMcL SlidingTackle
-
- Posts: 4751
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
- Been Liked: 953 times
- Has Liked: 238 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
A majority of people voted for unionist parties.
That's how it works isn't it ?
That's how it works isn't it ?
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
How about a vote to see if we English people want to get rid of the moaning, grabbing,ungrateful jocks ? I for one now would as I am sick and tired of the anti English ranting coming from North of the border. They would then expect Europe or should I say the German taxpayer to give them more then they actually contribute.
This user liked this post: turfytopper
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Let's get out of Europe first, then give Jimmy her referendum.
-
- Posts: 2679
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:07 pm
- Been Liked: 781 times
- Has Liked: 1435 times
- Location: Mostly Europe
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Agreedbfcjg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:40 amHow about a vote to see if we English people want to get rid of the moaning, grabbing,ungrateful jocks ? I for one now would as I am sick and tired of the anti English ranting coming from North of the border. They would then expect Europe or should I say the German taxpayer to give them more then they actually contribute.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Britain, including Scotland leaves Europe on 31st January next year. Any vote for Scottish independence would be after that, and if it was a yes vote, it would leave them out of Europe, and separated from Britain, giving them complete independence, good luck with that one, let them go for it.
-
- Posts: 3121
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:24 am
- Been Liked: 946 times
- Has Liked: 411 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
For me, we need to get to DEC 2020 and focus on Brexit and getting all the funding into hospitals, schools and policing etc. I can’t see how this will be a priority given that we have years of indecision now to move forward the whole UK.
If Scotland want a referendum then we should make it clear up front what this means but that we won’t discuss this until we have completed trade talks with EU. Once we have that,this will allow Scotland to fully understand the position that they are in.
They need to also understand that a break from the Union is not good for the union and therefore shouldn’t expect us to make it easy..
I think that the EU application needs exploring by them also before they start making moves given it’s almost guaranteed that Spain will have a say in refusing the entry because of their political challenges with the Catalonians
If Scotland want a referendum then we should make it clear up front what this means but that we won’t discuss this until we have completed trade talks with EU. Once we have that,this will allow Scotland to fully understand the position that they are in.
They need to also understand that a break from the Union is not good for the union and therefore shouldn’t expect us to make it easy..
I think that the EU application needs exploring by them also before they start making moves given it’s almost guaranteed that Spain will have a say in refusing the entry because of their political challenges with the Catalonians
This user liked this post: Damo
-
- Posts: 18007
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:07 pm
- Been Liked: 4074 times
- Has Liked: 1853 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
You really believe that?
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Let them go for it and I’d love them to say yes. It would be funny to watch.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Chip on Jimmy Krankies shoulder gets bigger with every sip of irn bru
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Think about all the things you think about Scotland and apply them to how the EU see England.
This user liked this post: Heathclaret
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
If they get their way I wonder if N Ireland would follow. They wouldn’t fair so well economically at all.
-
- Posts: 3748
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:49 am
- Been Liked: 927 times
- Has Liked: 716 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Firstly, what have you seen that makes you think they'd shut up?CaptainKirk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:21 amIf they lose again they will presumably shut up unless they go for best of five.
Secondly, why would they need "Best of five". They play last goal wins. By the rules the Scots would play to, we'd have got 3 points against City. We got the last goal.
-
- Posts: 3748
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:49 am
- Been Liked: 927 times
- Has Liked: 716 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
I'd love them to go. A hard border is part of the deal.
These 2 users liked this post: lesxdp Pstotto
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
1st votes don’t count unless you get your own way. Ask remoaners.
This user liked this post: Pstotto
-
- Posts: 21464
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
- Been Liked: 8585 times
- Has Liked: 11285 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Like the majority of our population with brexit and the general election, the majority of scotland probably actually dont care. However I suspect if the second referendum was given the quiet majority would turn out in force and vote to stay as is.
This user liked this post: SammyBoy
-
- Posts: 17277
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
- Been Liked: 6490 times
- Has Liked: 2919 times
- Location: Fife
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
I've already been told to fcuk off back were I belong.
These 2 users liked this post: FactualFrank Bosscat
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
The original referendum was agreed, but made clear it would be a '' once in a generation vote''. It was nothing to do with me but I understood that point.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
The EU are having to cut budgets due to us leaving, they see us as a cash cow, that is not how I see Scotland.ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:39 amThink about all the things you think about Scotland and apply them to how the EU see England.
-
- Posts: 16896
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6963 times
- Has Liked: 1484 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Funny how the it’s the same people who claim that the UK will be better out of the EU arrogantly claim that Scotland won’t be able to go alone.
This user liked this post: Burnley1989
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
That is true, but presumably you also understood the promise made that: they were clearly told if you vote to leave the UK you'll be voting to leave the EU, and the only way to REMAIN in the EU is to remain in the UK.
Leaving aside all political views and nationalistic / patriotic sentiment, you can't make your first argument without balancing it with the 2nd one.
I'm not a Scot myself, and don't have a strong view on this issue, but there's no doubt that remaining in the EU was a promise made to them, and therefore it was betrayed.
The more interesting issue now is whether Johnson goes ahead with the Irish Sea border, given that the Unionists are now in a minority in NI. If NI effectively remains in the EU with joint arrangements with the south, then Scotland will have an obvious grievance.
Whether they could be fast-tracked into the EU however is a different matter.
-
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:37 pm
- Been Liked: 50 times
- Has Liked: 10 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
There is the Nuclear Base at Faslane and Holy Loch to sort out, a loss of Jockanese jobs there!
-
- Posts: 25697
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
- Been Liked: 4644 times
- Has Liked: 9849 times
- Location: Glasgow
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
I didn''t cast a vote for the SNP in the last 2 general elections,however i did vote for them in 2015,despite voting no in 2014.
In any future indy ref i'd probably vote to stay in the union,but it's clear that England and Scotland are diverging politically,and i'd say Scotland going alone is more likely than not in the next few years.
Boris needs to play this carefully,if he's seen to be blocking any vote,that could sway many waverers into the yes camp.
Equally such a vote carries risk for Nicola Sturgeon,as if she doesn't lead the yes camp to victory her political future is uncertain.
Labour are irrevelant in Scottish politics just now,and a lot of their former voters will have switched to the centre-left party,namely the SNP who apart from the obvious of the constitution are a typical social democrat party in most aspects.
The SNP definitely have a mandate for another referendum before the next Holyrood elections in 2021,they've won the last 4 national elections up here,and if Westminster keeps saying no then they'll sweep the board again in 2021.
Now what happens with Scotland in the event of independence is another and issues such as the terms of EU membership,and crucially any future currency arrangements have still to be answered by the yes side,this was a defining moment in 2014,and until these issues are resolved it'll be tough for many Scottish voters to take the gamble.
In any future indy ref i'd probably vote to stay in the union,but it's clear that England and Scotland are diverging politically,and i'd say Scotland going alone is more likely than not in the next few years.
Boris needs to play this carefully,if he's seen to be blocking any vote,that could sway many waverers into the yes camp.
Equally such a vote carries risk for Nicola Sturgeon,as if she doesn't lead the yes camp to victory her political future is uncertain.
Labour are irrevelant in Scottish politics just now,and a lot of their former voters will have switched to the centre-left party,namely the SNP who apart from the obvious of the constitution are a typical social democrat party in most aspects.
The SNP definitely have a mandate for another referendum before the next Holyrood elections in 2021,they've won the last 4 national elections up here,and if Westminster keeps saying no then they'll sweep the board again in 2021.
Now what happens with Scotland in the event of independence is another and issues such as the terms of EU membership,and crucially any future currency arrangements have still to be answered by the yes side,this was a defining moment in 2014,and until these issues are resolved it'll be tough for many Scottish voters to take the gamble.
These 2 users liked this post: Hipper nil_desperandum
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Leaving the EU is going to take an enormous amount of time and effort over a number of years for our political system - politicians and civil servants.
To load on them a Scottish (or Welsh and Irish) complete independence will mean even less attention on the really important matters for a number of years.
The most practical way forward, which would deal with the complaint of being politically different, would surely be more devolvement and then at some reasonable time in the future, full independence if it is still wanted. I agree though that this doesn't deal with a wish to remain in the EU.
To load on them a Scottish (or Welsh and Irish) complete independence will mean even less attention on the really important matters for a number of years.
The most practical way forward, which would deal with the complaint of being politically different, would surely be more devolvement and then at some reasonable time in the future, full independence if it is still wanted. I agree though that this doesn't deal with a wish to remain in the EU.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
you now know how a Jehovas Witness must feel everytime they knock on my Brothers door
This user liked this post: Steve1956
-
- Posts: 3121
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:24 am
- Been Liked: 946 times
- Has Liked: 411 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Life expectancy isn't that great in some parts of Scotland from what I have read so potentially that generation has now passed
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
And then remember that the two examples are completely differentClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:39 amThink about all the things you think about Scotland and apply them to how the EU see England.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Would the price of Whiskey go up if they cleared off ?
This user liked this post: Steve1956
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Scotland gets a lot of money from England. Did yoy know? Free University education for all but English students. Free precriptions. Ever heard of the Midlothian question?
Before you post perhaps you should learn about the subject.
On Tories why do you think the working men and women of Britain have just voted in great numbers for them?
Unlike the likes of you they saw through an anti british ( cant bring himself to si g our national anthem) economically illterate terrorist sympathzing Isligton wiedo.
Scotland may get another referendum. Personally I am ambivalent. I find Sturgeon unpleasant though.
These 2 users liked this post: Bosscat tiger76
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Sturgeon and her Party would do well to study how Catalan Independence from Spain has been supported (not) by the EU.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Surely nobody north of the border wants this after watching Andrew Neil's interview with wee Jimmy?
-
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 9:49 am
- Been Liked: 190 times
- Has Liked: 179 times
- Location: Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln.
-
- Posts: 17277
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
- Been Liked: 6490 times
- Has Liked: 2919 times
- Location: Fife
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
I'm assuming your English Tiger,just out of interest have the Jocks ever told you to fcuk off back were you belong? .....or is it just metiger76 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:43 amI didn''t cast a vote for the SNP in the last 2 general elections,however i did vote for them in 2015,despite voting no in 2014.
In any future indy ref i'd probably vote to stay in the union,but it's clear that England and Scotland are diverging politically,and i'd say Scotland going alone is more likely than not in the next few years.
Boris needs to play this carefully,if he's seen to be blocking any vote,that could sway many waverers into the yes camp.
Equally such a vote carries risk for Nicola Sturgeon,as if she doesn't lead the yes camp to victory her political future is uncertain.
Labour are irrevelant in Scottish politics just now,and a lot of their former voters will have switched to the centre-left party,namely the SNP who apart from the obvious of the constitution are a typical social democrat party in most aspects.
The SNP definitely have a mandate for another referendum before the next Holyrood elections in 2021,they've won the last 4 national elections up here,and if Westminster keeps saying no then they'll sweep the board again in 2021.
Now what happens with Scotland in the event of independence is another and issues such as the terms of EU membership,and crucially any future currency arrangements have still to be answered by the yes side,this was a defining moment in 2014,and until these issues are resolved it'll be tough for many Scottish voters to take the gamble.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
1. Too much to sort out in too short a time. First of all we have to get Brexit done and then see how it works, say for five years.
N.I. is a bit different because it is not part of our Island.
2. However if we ditch N.I. out of the union and I would be glad for one, the main problem is the security of our sea defences and coastal waters because right now the UK controls the waters between N/I. and Scotland.
3. Were the EU to become hostile as a Russian or Chinese enclave for example, then it would be really problematic, Scotland particularly regarding nuclear and naval facilities.
4. A hard border between us and Scotland ideologically sounds a good idea, but the cost and policing of it would be enormous.
5. I'm surprised they even were allowed one referendum never mind two.
6. England is a massive trading partner with Scotland, I 'm not sure what container port facilities are up there, but they may regret their isolated position if there were hostilities and also jobs down south etc.
7. With regard to Scotland's voters at odds with the English, the Labour strongholds in the North still get ruled by Westminster whatever their political leanings, some political positions are rhetorical, Scotland probably quite a bit.
N.I. is a bit different because it is not part of our Island.
2. However if we ditch N.I. out of the union and I would be glad for one, the main problem is the security of our sea defences and coastal waters because right now the UK controls the waters between N/I. and Scotland.
3. Were the EU to become hostile as a Russian or Chinese enclave for example, then it would be really problematic, Scotland particularly regarding nuclear and naval facilities.
4. A hard border between us and Scotland ideologically sounds a good idea, but the cost and policing of it would be enormous.
5. I'm surprised they even were allowed one referendum never mind two.
6. England is a massive trading partner with Scotland, I 'm not sure what container port facilities are up there, but they may regret their isolated position if there were hostilities and also jobs down south etc.
7. With regard to Scotland's voters at odds with the English, the Labour strongholds in the North still get ruled by Westminster whatever their political leanings, some political positions are rhetorical, Scotland probably quite a bit.
-
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 9:49 am
- Been Liked: 190 times
- Has Liked: 179 times
- Location: Bracebridge Heath, Lincoln.
-
- Posts: 3121
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:24 am
- Been Liked: 946 times
- Has Liked: 411 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Absolutely - I think that is a great parallel to draw - however there are some subtle differences for Scotland to consider when they look to leave and try and apply back into the EU - mainly around their current reliance on the UK government and having their currency as the same as ours.ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:39 amThink about all the things you think about Scotland and apply them to how the EU see England.
We couldn't be held over a barrel over currency or the money we got from the EU as we gave more than we received.
Im no expert in either of the above areas but I would be interested in understanding what would happen in terms of negotiations around keeping GBP as their currency and having the security of this established currency. I know they could say we will keep the pound but Im not sure as a government, when they issue bonds/gilts for borrowing that they would be rated the same as they would not have any history of repayment etc. I.E. would be seen as higher risk.
Likewise, they would have a debt to repay back to the rest of the union, like we have a bill to the EU but if we pulled defence, governement functions out of Scotland, they are likely to need to find funding etc for these things.
All feels a lot messier to me than what the EU vote was because we are not as tied into things like currency and shared government functions.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
On the subject of the Tories people voted for them out of hatred for Jeremy Corbyn rather than any great love for the party. And frankly I couldn't care less about politicians singing the National Anthem, I'd rather they were competent and capable at doing their job.Stayingup wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:00 amScotland gets a lot of money from England. Did yoy know? Free University education for all but English students. Free precriptions. Ever heard of the Midlothian question?
Before you post perhaps you should learn about the subject.
On Tories why do you think the working men and women of Britain have just voted in great numbers for them?
Unlike the likes of you they saw through an anti british ( cant bring himself to si g our national anthem) economically illterate terrorist sympathzing Isligton wiedo.
Scotland may get another referendum. Personally I am ambivalent. I find Sturgeon unpleasant though.
-
- Posts: 8996
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am
- Been Liked: 2013 times
- Has Liked: 2913 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Each referendum costs the taxpayer millions of pounds. They can afford to keep running them as long as the English continue to help pay for them.
-
- Posts: 17277
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
- Been Liked: 6490 times
- Has Liked: 2919 times
- Location: Fife
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Not really,but I'm not like that,and they still tell me to fcuk off homeHeathclaret wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:17 amJudging by the way the Scots are spoken about on here, by the English, are you surprised you’ve been told to F off?
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
What’s to stop the SNP from simply declaring independence now?
-
- Posts: 18097
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
- Been Liked: 3875 times
- Has Liked: 2073 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
It's not arrogance, it's finances.
Scotland simply couldn't afford to take on their share of the national debt for starters.
-
- Posts: 8996
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am
- Been Liked: 2013 times
- Has Liked: 2913 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Constitutionally they can’t withdraw from the Union unilaterally. If they did not only would Westminister withdraw funding Scotland would be screwed. They hope to get the dosh from Europe... they wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole if they withdrew unilaterally. Why Scotland think they would be welcomed into Europe on anything better than an East European members who have similar economies is one to ask a Scottish nationalist... it is not a popular suggestion in countries with their own separatists, eg Spain.
There are many things the SNP are not bothering to clarify before they go flag waving.
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Stayingup wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:00 amScotland gets a lot of money from England. Did yoy know? Free University education for all but English students. Free precriptions. Ever heard of the Midlothian question?
Before you post perhaps you should learn about the subject.
But did you?
If you fact-check any reliable source you'll find that, whilst it's difficult to be conclusive, (due to all kinds of variables), on balance Ian Blackford's claim that the Scots "subsidise" the rest of the UK is not necessarily untrue.
It's not just as simple as looking at the Barnett formula
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... -of-the-uk
https://www.businessforscotland.com/whe ... wealth-go/
-
- Posts: 3322
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:15 pm
- Been Liked: 702 times
- Has Liked: 174 times
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Freedom for Scotland.... And freedom for Yorkshire as well..... Might as well go the whole hog - freedom for Burnley.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Looks like I will have to don my plaid, slip my skian dhu into my hose and wield my clay more, to ensure justice is done.
Time to separate the warriors from the Norman's and their loyal serfs.
Time to separate the warriors from the Norman's and their loyal serfs.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Burnley just sold itself to serfdom and slavery!Nonayforever wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:56 amFreedom for Scotland.... And freedom for Yorkshire as well..... Might as well go the whole hog - freedom for Burnley.
Caps must be worn forthwith Doffing lessons will be re-introduced.
Re: Second Scottish Referendum
Whats Norman done to you Ian (and the washing powder he uses has nowt to do with Joxit)