CFS likened to hillsbrough

[MACCA]

I think the reference to Hillsborough is appalling to be honest but those pictures are damning, as is the response from our club.

We've been gathering information from some Newcastle fan organisations today and also asking similarly of other clubs who have been and filled it this season.

That's great news, we have had a Marquee installed in the CFS home section so people can now go outside to stretch their legs, have a smoke, get some refreshments and not get drenched.

Crowding is still an issue, however think that's due to the location of the exit, bar and toilets all being on the same side meaning all traffic goes the same way and has to pass through the queues.

It's a dated stand but not sure what the club can do to help the situation, other than redevelop the stand.

Ps the lake returned on Saturday, but it only got me on the way out in the dark, so the soggy foot was easier to live with after 3 points and a nice beer in the miners post match.

[MrTopTier]

Plenty of people who went to Hillsborough prior to the tragedy said it was an accident waiting to happen, there are plenty on here that have repeated that phrase due to personal experience of it.
So when a fan/fans make that observation it should be taken seriously. It was seriously horrible and dingy when it was in use when the new stands where built. Numerous times it has been mentioned by away fans over the years, plenty of fans forums mentioned it. Blackburn had problems with it, there are plenty of poor concourses around the country, that shouldn’t be an excuse of putting our house in order.

[Andreshotboots]

I personally get to the ground early at home games with my son, around 2.30, so I can buy some food / drink whilst the concourse is pretty empty then clear off to our seats around 2.45.

Totally avoid it at half time, trying to get to the toilets via the lines of people queuing for food and drink is virtually impossible.

Perhaps as home fans though we need to be careful for what we wish for, we wanted extra seats for home fans in the CFS, we've got them. the obvious thing that the club will do is to reduce the numbers again back to the old segregation line.

Not sure what the answer is for the away end apart from the obvious. I think the issue on Saturday was accentuated due to the cricket club closing so large groups of away fans arrived at the ground simultaneously.

My thoughts were always to give the away fans a small section of the top, and bottom tiers of the JH stand closest to the cricket ground, like Villa, Everton etc. You could close the lane next to the cricket pitch so it's just for away fans, the coaches could still drop off there and the visiting fans could still park on, and use the cricket club. There are also adequate turnstiles to facilitate this at the ground.

[corporal jones]

Then they should join the modern era and let people "drink" at their seats and alleviate the problem of overcrowding on concourses everywhere

[Andreshotboots]

I think the reference to Hillsborough is appalling to be honest but those pictures are damning, as is the response from our club.

We've been gathering information from some Newcastle fan organisations today and also asking similarly of other clubs who have been and filled it this season.

Totally agree Tony. My mate has a crappy old car with bits falling off it that somehow passes its MOT so it's "safe" apparently.

My personal thoughts have always been to move the away fans from the CFS. I don't like visiting fans behind the goal anyway as I think it does help their team. I would either give them the whole bottom tier of the JH stand, like Wolves do, or split the top and bottom tiers like Villa, Everton etc.

[Quickenthetempo]

Totally agree Tony. My mate has a crappy old car with bits falling off it that somehow passes its MOT so it's "safe" apparently.

My personal thoughts have always been to move the away fans from the CFS. I don't like visiting fans behind the goal anyway as I think it does help their team. I would either give them the whole bottom tier of the JH stand, like Wolves do, or split the top and bottom tiers like Villa, Everton etc.

The main problem with that is the corporate boxes. They wouldn't be able to sit outside in the away section.

[Leisure]

We get people throwing their hands in the air when the suggestion is made that people who sit in the JMcU and who now don't have children, should be moved out to allow more families access to the stand. I can just imagine the uproar if the club wanted to move large swathes of fans from the JHU and L, from seats they've had for years, just accommodate away fans! I can't see a solution other than reducing the away fans allocation to the absolute minimum (10% - Approx 2180) or giving them the whole of the CFS.

[Quickenthetempo]

The easiest thing to do to prevent overcrowding is to stop selling beer.

Profit Vs Safety

[Leisure]

The easiest thing to do to prevent overcrowding is to stop selling beer.

Profit Vs Safety

Or close the beer kiosks under the stand and enlarge the beer tent.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

At least they get to sit pitchside, which is a Premier League requirement that Newcastle have avoided because they say that it isn't possible to do it because of fan safety. I think that the real reason is that they do not want to instruct fans that they must move to other areas in order to accommodate the away fans, hence, we have to don oxygen masks and get Sherpas to show us the way to our seats.
Strange how they have had crowds which have been 10,000 below capacity recently and yet are unable to accommodate away fans as per PL instructions.

Carroll whinging because we were disgusting and Toon players suffered bruises, fans moaning because they missed 10 minutes ---question is what time did they arrive in the area?
Sadly there is no easy answer because home fans would not wish to move to accommodate them which is fair enough, however, well done to those making contact and trying to resolve the problem.
You lot are lucky ---I live in Geordieland!! Shirt was on yesterday though and I can handle all the abuse and criticism thrown at me.

[ChorltonCharlie]

You make hay whilst the sun shines don’t you? With a lot of the feedback about that stand and the club being as well off as they’re ever going to be, it really is about time that the club seriously consider knocking it down and replacing it. There’s no need for any Paul Fletcher style delusions of grandeur stands with hotels in. Just a big steep simple stand with rail seating would do the job. Obviously it would need to include Premier League quality dressing rooms, but other than that it doesn’t need to cost a relative fortune.

[tim_noone]

I personally get to the ground early at home games with my son, around 2.30, so I can buy some food / drink whilst the concourse is pretty empty then clear off to our seats around 2.45.

Totally avoid it at half time, trying to get to the toilets via the lines of people queuing for food and drink is virtually impossible.

Perhaps as home fans though we need to be careful for what we wish for, we wanted extra seats for home fans in the CFS, we've got them. the obvious thing that the club will do is to reduce the numbers again back to the old segregation line.

Not sure what the answer is for the away end apart from the obvious. I think the issue on Saturday was accentuated due to the cricket club closing so large groups of away fans arrived at the ground simultaneously.

My thoughts were always to give the away fans a small section of the top, and bottom tiers of the JH stand closest to the cricket ground, like Villa, Everton etc. You could close the lane next to the cricket pitch so it's just for away fans, the coaches could still drop off there and the visiting fans could still park on, and use the cricket club. There are also adequate turnstiles to facilitate this at the ground.

Your last paragraph spot on...always been my thoughts.

[tim_noone]

Plenty of people who went to Hillsborough prior to the tragedy said it was an accident waiting to happen, there are plenty on here that have repeated that phrase due to personal experience of it.
So when a fan/fans make that observation it should be taken seriously. It was seriously horrible and dingy when it was in use when the new stands where built. Numerous times it has been mentioned by away fans over the years, plenty of fans forums mentioned it. Blackburn had problems with it, there are plenty of poor concourses around the country, that shouldn’t be an excuse of putting our house in order.

Oh no.... it's an appalling comparison. Says the board censor. Till theres an incident.

[Claretforever]

I’m not saying “well other clubs are worse so ours is fine”, but for a full view of ours versus others this is the concourse at QPR.

[Leisure]

You make hay whilst the sun shines don’t you? With a lot of the feedback about that stand and the club being as well off as they’re ever going to be, it really is about time that the club seriously consider knocking it down and replacing it. There’s no need for any Paul Fletcher style delusions of grandeur stands with hotels in. Just a big steep simple stand with rail seating would do the job. Obviously it would need to include Premier League quality dressing rooms, but other than that it doesn’t need to cost a relative fortune.

And where would you suggest that the club accommodate the home and away fans from the CFS whilst the rebuild takes place?

[ChorltonCharlie]

Sooner or later that becomes a challenge the club has to face. We won't be the first club who's had to do it and won't be the last.

[Andreshotboots]

And where would you suggest that the club accommodate the home and away fans from the CFS whilst the rebuild takes place?

Just get Barnfield to build it in the off season. The speed they put up the two disabled stands and control box they will have finished with weeks to spare.

[Andreshotboots]

In all seriousness I think the club have 4 options.

1- Make small adjustments and hope a serious incident never occurs.
2. Reduce away numbers to the absolute minimum required - losing out on thousands of pounds of match day revenue.
3. Accommodate the away fans somewhere else in the ground - upsetting season ticket holders who may have to move seats.
4. Look at developing the stand - I think if this was going to happen in the near future plans would have been well and truly on the drawing board by now.

I think we all know that as money rules the game, option 1 with extra stewarding and possibly better training / organisation will be the option we take.

[Bordeauxclaret]

There are always options available.

It wasn’t long ago we were constantly told it would be impossible to split the stand and let home supporters back in.

[Leisure]

There are always options available

Like what?

[Claretforever]

And where would you suggest that the club accommodate the home and away fans from the CFS whilst the rebuild takes place?

To be honest, Leisure, that is going to be an issue whenever we redevelop. Or do we do nothing and never redevelop our ground? In all likelihood we will have to upset some of our season ticket holders for a season and accommodate a reduced away allocation of 1,500 in half of the lower At some point in time we will have to address it.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Well there are some listed above for starters.


If they go down the new stand route It might be scary to be the first football club in history to re-build a stand but I think we’d get through it.

[Claretforever]

Adding to the QPR image further up, here is the away concourse at Everton in the top tier. I took this in 2015 a few minutes before half time. It was rather cosy at half time as it didn’t go back too far behind me where the men’s toilets were.

4ADA1DD7-EFB9-4A53-AA72-2529751E6BEF.jpeg (535.72 KiB) Viewed 1710 times

[Devils_Advocate]

To be fair to our board they have been making efforts to do something about it for the past 2 years by not spending money and thus getting us relegated where full attendances and overcrowding wont be an issue.

Unfortunately Dyche keeps ruining their plans by managing to keep a squad of Stoke rejects up year after year

[wilks_bfc]

Re moving the away fans. I’m sure I can recall being moved out of the JML for a game and the away fans moved in, so it has happened, albeit on a temporary basis

[Grumps]

To be fair to our board they have been making efforts to do something about it for the past 2 years by not spending money and thus getting us relegated where full attendances and overcrowding wont be an issue.

Unfortunately Dyche keeps ruining their plans by managing to keep a squad of Stoke rejects up year after year

And you say I talk cr@p.....pot and kettle

[Devils_Advocate]

And you say I talk cr@p.....pot and kettle

Yes but you are being serious when you talk crap

[gandhisflipflop]

Surely a fight breaking out is a pretty serious event in itself?

Of course it's a serious event in itself. That I dont dispute. I am however suggesting that because of the concourse being so badly designed and tightly packed, that a serious event such as this has the potential to be a lot more serious because of innocent people being caught up due to there being nowhere to go. It's also no good other posters saying "well the concourse at (insert club) is worse than ours" because that may well be the case and the same will apply to them also. It was only the other week we had a stream of people cutting in-between the beer queues to get to the toilet, and this was about 10 minutes before half time. It is ridiculous.

[2 Bee Holed]

There was a whole thread about this during the summer.
To be fair the tent outside has alleviated some congestion.

Now all that's needed is to move all beer sales outside.
and change current indoor canteen at the bottom of the stairs into toilets.

I still remained concerned that almost half the capacity of the stand gets 1 staircase, whilst away fans get 2.

Just a reminder of this summers' thread:

"Re: Extended home section in cricket field stand

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:41 am

2 Bee Holed wrote:
Just looked at Turf Moor Loyal's photos.
Jeez!!!!!! This is becoming alarming!

This isn't just a small increase in Burnley seats.
We must be talking about a 20% increase in home seat capacity, an extra 300 to 400.

Does anyone know the exact figure?
We could be talking 1800 to 1900 people all trying to pass through a 3' wide opening to get to the toilet and out again.
Away fans get 2 staircases we still have the 1.

Is it LCC who issue the Ground Safety Certificate?

This is going from being dangerous to downright lethal!
claretforever

Thanks for your photos. As can be seen the only TV is over the 1m wide entrance and exit to the toilet!
Nobody is looking at the screen because ours would have been the only match on.

So if it wasn't at capacity that night and we have a further 300 seats to come, I reiterate;

This is going to be lethal!

[deanothedino]

They should have incorporated new dressing rooms in the disabled corners, like the old corner design that never happened, then they could recover more space for the concourse in the CFS.

[Claretforever]

They should have incorporated new dressing rooms in the disabled corners, like the old corner design that never happened, then they could recover more space for the concourse in the CFS.

That’s been said online too. The reason the concourse is so shallow is because the dressings rooms and the long corridor runs under there, due to the Brunshaw Road/Bob Lord stand development in the 70’s.

It’s ridiculous for them to compare it with Hillsborough though. It’s about 15 feet wide and, when you compare that with Watford, which is about 8 feet, QPR about 6 feet, and the outside ones at Fulham and Huddersfield, the latter being a crush for the toilet and bar, it’s very spacious.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Could they knock a back wall through and put marquees on the edges of the cricket field?

[Longside4evr]

It was a night match when the Stoke City fans were located the bottom of the Jimmy Mc can't remember the reason for it what's the capacity for that section must only be around the 1,500 mark
Would certainly be an option if future development happens its the dressing room issues that would take the most thought out planning porto cabins would be one option
Any accident that may occur now would be a massive investigation safety certificate in place or not and they go over it with a fine tooth comb and if anything they found to have caused such a incident it would cost the club more than a new stand thats for sure

[Quickenthetempo]

Could they knock a back wall through and put marquees on the edges of the cricket field?

They have artificial nets there now.

But they should of bought a 30ft strip of land off the cricket club when it had chance. 10ft breezeblock wall around with a tin sheet roof on. A couple of turnstiles for away fans so they don't have to walk all the way around and avoids flashpoints.

[wilks_bfc]

It was a night match when the Stoke City fans were located the bottom of the Jimmy Mc can't remember the reason for it what's the capacity for that section must only be around the 1,500 mark
Would certainly be an option if future development happens its the dressing room issues that would take the most thought out planning porto cabins would be one option
Any accident that may occur now would be a massive investigation safety certificate in place or not and they go over it with a fine tooth comb and if anything they found to have caused such a incident it would cost the club more than a new stand thats for sure

I can remember being moved from the JML for a Stoke game (it was when Cotterill thought Duff would make a center forward) but didn't think it was a night match

[Selby Claret]

Tend to agree that it is a potential deathtrap. Especially as it wss never designed to be split. The home end is bad enough so god knows what the away end is like with one way in and out. I always wait until the end to leave the home end and rarely go down at half time.

That said, this is spurs all singing and dancing sparkly new away end...

Tried so hard to forget that place and deny all knowledge - yet there I am for all to see

[CombatClaret]

Surely there are health & safety requirements put in place by the league and the HSE that the club adheres too, risk assessments in place etc.

[Targetman]

I can remember being moved from the JML for a Stoke game (it was when Cotterill thought Duff would make a center forward) but didn't think it was a night match

It was a night match. I think this happened because there was a problem with the cricket field stand, health & safety wise?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Plenty of people who went to Hillsborough prior to the tragedy said it was an accident waiting to happen, there are plenty on here that have repeated that phrase due to personal experience of it.
So when a fan/fans make that observation it should be taken seriously. It was seriously horrible and dingy when it was in use when the new stands where built. Numerous times it has been mentioned by away fans over the years, plenty of fans forums mentioned it. Blackburn had problems with it, there are plenty of poor concourses around the country, that shouldn’t be an excuse of putting our house in order.

well said

[cricketfieldclarets]

Oh no.... it's an appalling comparison. Says the board censor. Till theres an incident.

such comments will have long since been deleted if and when something does happen!

[Quickenthetempo]

It was a night match. I think this happened because there was a problem with the cricket field stand, health & safety wise?

The roof in the CF was unsafe.

[AlargeClaret]

Time to knock it down and build a cheapo 2 tier imo. The hone section of CFS is a joke anyway with the rare exception of a tanked up/coked up beer bellied rendition of We are Longside Burnley the place just sucked out what was left of the grounds atmosphere .

As for the Hillsborough comparison , a bit dramatic though bearing in mind that your modern football fan has the same sensibilities and expectations of a mildly hysterical middle class mum taking her kids around legoland

[Grumps]

Plenty of people who went to Hillsborough prior to the tragedy said it was an accident waiting to happen, there are plenty on here that have repeated that phrase due to personal experience of it.
So when a fan/fans make that observation it should be taken seriously. It was seriously horrible and dingy when it was in use when the new stands where built. Numerous times it has been mentioned by away fans over the years, plenty of fans forums mentioned it. Blackburn had problems with it, there are plenty of poor concourses around the country, that shouldn’t be an excuse of putting our house in order.

I think quite a lot was said in hindsight after the tragedy but not before. I remember going to a cup replay one night and it was crammed in that middle pen, but all we thought at the time was how busy it was, it was only when the tragedy happened you looked back and thought, yes, I can see how that could happen
I don't recall any reports prior to the tragedy, don't forget the Internet, message boards etc didn't exist in those days, so where did these people say these things prior to the incident?

[jrgbfc]

If we knocked it down straight after the last home game in May you could have a new stand pretty much up by mid August if you got a decent construction firm on it. If Barnfield aren't up to the job get someone else to do it. If we have to reduce season ticket holders for a year then so be it.