Sky Sports Dave Jones

[elwaclaret]

The paying customer doesn't pay to watch players being racially abused either.

Walking off will be the only way to stop this, other than fans self policing themselves.

But does walking off stop racism or merely feed the attention seeking idiots?
Crowd abuse to the abusers seems the best reaction for results imho

[fidelcastro]

But does walking off stop racism or merely feed the attention seeking idiots?
Crowd abuse to the abusers seems the best reaction for results imho

Can you imagine the crowd reaction to the abusers, if a game is forced to be abandoned, due to players walking off?

Something tells me the racist idiots won't be doing it again... or even coming back!

[Hibsclaret]

Neville is a great pundit, probably the best one tbh. With what happened yesterday and as correct as he may be, he had no need to drop Dave in it by firing back to the presenter as to whether he agrees. He should know that presenters are paid to not have an opinion so by firing back the question he has dropped Jones in it.

It’s a subject matter where you have to be very careful what you say, particularly on live tv and Neville being as opinionated as he is can always land someone in the you know what which is what happened.

As others have highlighted on here we have moved on a long way but there are people in all walks of life where racism and other similar attitudes are ingrained and as such I suspect it is unlikely that tackling the problem fully to satisfaction will take place within our lifetimes. This is not to say we should not continue to educate and improve but the incident yesterday in itself highlights how we go down the route of the misinterpretation of a comment by a sky sports presenter rather than dealing with the actual problem.

[Corky]

I think Neville was more laying the blame with society but saying that the fact both major political parties have been able to get away with barely addressing several race issues is a sign that society is accepting of racist behaviour.

I agree. Society has an issue with it if you can vote for a PM who is so overtly racist.

[joey13]

I am totally against racism anywhere. But points deductions are a ridiculous suggestion. What is stopping a large minority of city fans going to Liverpools next home game dressed in all the liverpool kit and chanting racist songs or making noises to get them a points deduction. Something does need to be done about it but ooints deductions arent the way.

Where are these City fans going to get tickets from ,

[KRBFC]

Sky do treat us like children. Commentators apologising for “any foul language you may have heard” ticks me off. Walk past any primary school and the kids are effing and jeffing at each other.

Who is us? Are you pretending children don’t watch football on sky?

[Tricky Trevor]

Who is us? Are you pretending children don’t watch football on sky?

Not at all. Just that the kids are as foul-mouthed as the adults and Sky shouldn’t need to apologise for something out of their control.

[KRBFC]

As sad as it is, this idea that we will suddenly rid the world of racism is incredibly naive, it’s just another problem in the world like homophobia, murderers, terrorists. You kill one terrorist, another appears.

[KRBFC]

Not at all. Just that the kids are as foul-mouthed as the adults and Sky shouldn’t need to apologise for something out of their control.

Which kids? Not all kids are allowed to swear yet many copy things they hear from the TV, whilst it’s out of their control it’s still their responsibility so I have no problem with them apologising to the audience because I understand the apology isn’t for me.

[Cleveleys_claret]

There is less racism now in football than at any other time I can remember. I am 40 and being going for 30 years. The likes of Neville who say players should walk off are having a laugh....why didnt he? Why didnt Shearer when Les Ferdinand used to be racially abused. The other day you had Linekar tweeting how good it was to see Gazza at SPOTY. The same Gazza who constantly tells racist stories at after dinner speeches, and asks black members of the public for coke because they must be a drug dealer. These pundits have far too much power and are using this issue in a way to keep themselves relevant and on the back pages.


Yes there is a issue. No it isnt as bad as ever before. The likes of Fashanu, Cunningham and many others must laugh at what today is being percieved as abuse. They were the trailblazers who got their head down and rammed the taunts of fans down their throats by performing on the pitch. Fans should self police and call out the idiots. Report them and hope action is took by the relevant authorities.

If clubs really wanted to do somwthing about it they would. The betting companies have started to have people in the stands to stop in play betting with special devices which cost thousands of pounds with the help of clubs. Why arent they assisting with kick it out having people in crowds to root out racism? I would guess kick it out dont sponsor the game to the tune of hundreds of millions a year. The FA give kick it out just 800k a year to tackle the issue. Says it all really

[Cleveleys_claret]

Where are these City fans going to get tickets from ,

I was using that as an example. Just trying to show how the deduction of points could be manipulated. There are matches throughout the divisions where tickets in a rivals stand are readily available. Just saying the points deduction idea is stupid. Cant punish a club for the stupidity of a fan

[Grumps]

Who is us? Are you pretending children don’t watch football on sky?

Same kids who attend games and hear the language at every game without the tannoy apologising every time a rude song is sung

[fidelcastro]

As sad as it is, this idea that we will suddenly rid the world of racism is incredibly naive, it’s just another problem in the world like homophobia, murderers, terrorists. You kill one terrorist, another appears.

Hardly surprising that you're so head in the sand about this, given some of the filthy racist comments you've posted on here over the years.

[KRBFC]

Hardly surprising that you're so head in the sand about this, given some of the filthy racist comments you've posted on here over the years.

I’m not pretending it doesn’t exist, I’m simply stating people expecting homophobia/racism/terrorism and the many other world problems to simply disappear at the click of a thumb are naive as hell. As for the rest of your nonsense post, I refuse to take the bait. Have a nice day

[rufus lumley]

If anybody else is thinking of writing to Sky Sports with a complaint address it F.A.O the fobbing off department.

[joey13]

I was using that as an example. Just trying to show how the deduction of points could be manipulated. There are matches throughout the divisions where tickets in a rivals stand are readily available. Just saying the points deduction idea is stupid. Cant punish a club for the stupidity of a fan

So you saying away fans are readily accommodated at Anfield along with home fans ?

[KRBFC]

So you saying away fans are readily accommodated at Anfield along with home fans ?

I think it was pretty obvious what he was saying, surely you don’t need him to type 1 word at a time although maybe you should try reading one word at a time if it helps you breakdown a sentence without leaving yourself confused at something pretty basic.

[Rileybobs]

Yes there is a issue. No it isnt as bad as ever before. The likes of Fashanu, Cunningham and many others must laugh at what today is being percieved as abuse. They were the trailblazers who got their head down and rammed the taunts of fans down their throats by performing on the pitch. Fans should self police and call out the idiots. Report them and hope action is took by the relevant authorities.

But above you say that you know of a number of fans with banning orders who attend games. If you advocate fans self-policing then why aren't you pointing out these fans to stewards?

[TVC15]

It’s a strange argument to say just because it used to be a lot worse then we shouldn’t do anything more now.
Society has moved on a lot from the 70s and 80s - thank goodness.
There needs to be a combination of new measures put in an effort to stamp out racism of the game.
All clubs should be made to sign up to life bans for any supporter who is caught being racist.
The criminal punishments should be much harsher than they are currently.
Clubs should be deducted points in certain scenarios - eg mass racist chanting, racism occurring more than once at the same club etc - this would help the self policing of crowds and act as a deterrent.
Better education - eg kick it out campaign visiting all schools and funded for by football - the FA and Premier League are awash with money.
Racism is also prevalent lower down the football pyramid - the penalties and punishments for any incidents should be a lot stronger. Life bans, criminal persecution etc.
If racism does occur against a player at any level the protocol needs to change so that if the incident is so serious or the player feels it is the team should be allowed to walk off the pitch - no 3 strikes and you are out. This should be left up to the team / player / manager to decide.

[Cleveleys_claret]

So you saying away fans are readily accommodated at Anfield along with home fans ?

I am saying any one can say they are a liverpool fan and get a ticket at some point and go watch them....what would be stopping them shouting racial abuse

[Cleveleys_claret]

What team was it that walked off the pitch due to racism and the Lancashire FA punished them....then the FA upheld the ruling. That tells you all u need to know about how much the FA and local football are doing about it

[Damo]

As sad as it is, this idea that we will suddenly rid the world of racism is incredibly naive, it’s just another problem in the world like homophobia, murderers, terrorists. You kill one terrorist, another appears.

I bet if you kill a racist, a homophobe or a murderer, then it wont inspire another one to take their place.
That said, it would be nice if the crowd could sort out some of these idiots. It would deter the Neanderthals if they expected some instant reprisals

[Cleveleys_claret]

Ridiculous that the older generation are jumping on their high horse regards this issue. How many fans twenty years ago would pull fans for racism.

I cant remember anyone stopping the fans in the Longside sticking up for Adrian Littlejohn

[joey13]

I am saying any one can say they are a liverpool fan and get a ticket at some point and go watch them....what would be stopping them shouting racial abuse

You didn’t say that , you said large minority , but hey I’m the stupid one

[joey13]

I think it was pretty obvious what he was saying, surely you don’t need him to type 1 word at a time although maybe you should try reading one word at a time if it helps you breakdown a sentence without leaving yourself confused at something pretty basic.

Have a day off or get back to the village it’s pretty obvious he meant something different to his original comment

[jdrobbo]

Sky do treat us like children. Commentators apologising for “any foul language you may have heard” ticks me off. Walk past any primary school and the kids are effing and jeffing at each other.

Not strictly true!

[Colburn_Claret]

Ridiculous that the older generation are jumping on their high horse regards this issue. How many fans twenty years ago would pull fans for racism.

I cant remember anyone stopping the fans in the Longside sticking up for Adrian Littlejohn

You're right which is why us older generation can say that things are a hell of a lot better than it used to be. No one is trying to bury racism, or deny it, but if it is getting less and less all the time, why is it being blown out of proportion now.
If it was getting worse there might be an argument, but it isn't.
It's a modern trend that everything gets overblown, climate change, racism, homelessness. It's also a modern trend that youngsters and pundits demand instant change. The world isnt like that, all you can do is try to make tomorrow better than yesterday, and mostly we do, which is why it's galling to have
59,999 peoples names dragged through the gutter because of one prick, and why demands for instant change don't relay the excellent progress that has been achieved, without any ridiculous headline grabbing pundits.

[KRBFC]

I bet if you kill a racist, a homophobe or a murderer, then it wont inspire another one to take their place.
That said, it would be nice if the crowd could sort out some of these idiots. It would deter the Neanderthals if they expected some instant reprisals

Not sure that’s true, the death penalty in the US doesn’t stop murderers. Something needs to be done about the racism but clearly the fear of a stadium ban isn’t stopping racists. Now what’s the next step? Gary Neville ranting and raving like it’s a simple fix when in reality it’s not.

[deanothedino]

The betting companies have started to have people in the stands to stop in play betting with special devices which cost thousands of pounds with the help of clubs.

Sounds half hearted. I've got a better way to stop in-play betting, don't offer it.

[deanothedino]

Gary Neville ranting and raving like it’s a simple fix when in reality it’s not.

I don't think he did make it sound like a simple fix. He was basically saying it is ingrained in society, it is never a simple fix to change something like that.

[Grumps]

I don't think he did make it sound like a simple fix. He was basically saying it is ingrained in society, it is never a simple fix to change something like that.

Not so sure its ingrained into society. If say ten people have been guilty of racist behavior at football matches this season, what percentage is that of those attending? Extremely low. The same percentage will apply to people in society guilty of racist behaviour, less than one percent? I agree even that is too many, but it's not ingrained into society.

[FeedTheArf]

https://twitter.com/davidjonessky/stat ... 50914?s=21

https://twitter.com/davidjonessky/stat ... 75072?s=21

He’s apologised for any confusion on his Twitter

[deanothedino]

Not so sure its ingrained into society. If say ten people have been guilty of racist behavior at football matches this season, what percentage is that of those attending? Extremely low. The same percentage will apply to people in society guilty of racist behaviour, less than one percent? I agree even that is too many, but it's not ingrained into society.

Gary Neville's point, and he is right, is that we've just had a general election where both main parties were accused of racism. We've elected a man who describes women as letterboxes and bank robbers for wearing a niqab, with barely a word of condemnation in the media. To me that is proof that racism is seen as acceptable in our society and as long it's accepted that Boris can say those things you will contunue to have that minority at football matches who think they can be racist idiots.

[TVC15]

Not so sure its ingrained into society. If say ten people have been guilty of racist behavior at football matches this season, what percentage is that of those attending? Extremely low. The same percentage will apply to people in society guilty of racist behaviour, less than one percent? I agree even that is too many, but it's not ingrained into society.

Tbh that doesn’t sound like the most scientific methodology to reach your numbers !!

[Grumps]

Tbh that doesn’t sound like the most scientific methodology to reach your numbers !!

Probably not, but it will be about right, either way it's very very low, and if we are using that low percentage to say something is ingrained in society, we would have to say that any kind of behaviour is ingrained in society, which quite clearly cannot be right

[deanothedino]

Probably not, but it will be about right, either way it's very very low, and if we are using that low percentage to say something is ingrained in society, we would have to say that any kind of behaviour is ingrained in society, which quite clearly cannot be right

It's not the bahviour that is ingrained, it is the acceptance of the behaviour. People in this thread (you being one) playing it down are also evidence of it.

[TVC15]

Probably not, but it will be about right, either way it's very very low, and if we are using that low percentage to say something is ingrained in society, we would have to say that any kind of behaviour is ingrained in society, which quite clearly cannot be right

In all seriousness it’s a lot lot more complex than that.
In many parts of society it is ingrained.
Racism like any prejudices can also take many forms and does not have to be overt as the incidents that get reported in the media.
IMHO I think your view of the low percentage is massively wrong / underestimated but it’s Christmas so I ain’t going to get into a big debate about it as it’s frankly a very depressing topic to be discussing.

[Rileybobs]

Sounds half hearted. I've got a better way to stop in-play betting, don't offer it.

They’re not trying to stop in-play betting, they’re trying to stop people abusing it by placing in-play bets on something that has just happened thus gaining an unfair advantage over the bookmakers.

[Grumps]

It's not the bahviour that is ingrained, it is the acceptance of the behaviour. People in this thread (you being one) playing it down are also evidence of it.

Who's playing it down? Not me, if you actually read what I put, I said 1 percent was too much. I also don't think it is behind accepted in society, hence the outcry every time something happens.

[deanothedino]

They’re not trying to stop in-play betting, they’re trying to stop people abusing it by placing in-play bets on something that has just happened thus gaining an unfair advantage over the bookmakers.

Can't be happening on the Turf then. With phone signal at our ground you'd be able to place the bet 12 hours later

[Rileybobs]

Can't be happening on the Turf then. With phone signal at our ground you'd be able to place the bet 12 hours later

I did think the same myself!!

[deanothedino]

Who's playing it down? Not me, if you actually read what I put, I said 1 percent was too much. I also don't think it is behind accepted in society, hence the outcry every time something happens.

You're right, that little bit at the end overrules the rest of your post where you were basically saying it isn't an issue in our society.

[timshorts]

There are plenty with engrained views that will take many years to eradicate.

That these views are recently coming to the fore publicly is the short term issue, particularly after many years, where such public instances were few and far between.

It’s a worrying trend and I’m not sure what it is that has given these idiots the confidence to air their views but I certainly don’t think it’s down to something like Brexit.

Social Media, for me, certainly seems to have a significant role to play in this.

Actually, I disagree re brexit. There is a correlation between these incidents recurring where previously they appeared to have almost vanished and the referendum vote, just as there has been a resurfacing of demonstrations by the go-home league or whatever they are called in places like Newcastle where they have been meeting up every 3 weeks or so ever since.

It's as if these views had been packed away under the carpet for a decade or so and suddenly out they pop and we can't put the Cork back in the bottle easily.

I suspect that the people who are that way are inclined view the referendum result as an endorsement that their nasty views are mainstream again and the letter box watermelon comments show that the pm now has views like them too, but he's just a bit in the closet.

For most of us, this is complete crap, but I don't think it is for the minority who still harbour white/British supremacist tendencies.

[Grumps]

You're right, that little bit at the end overrules the rest of your post where you were basically saying it isn't an issue in our society.

I have never said its not an issue in our society, please don't put words in my mouth. My only point is that, in my opinion, racist behaviour, like that seen at football matches, is not ingrained in society, which Neville was saying was.

[deanothedino]

I have never said its not an issue in our society, please don't put words in my mouth. My only point is that, in my opinion, racist behaviour, like that seen at football matches, is not ingrained in society, which Neville was saying was.

No, he was saying acceptance of it is. Our Prime Minister has published racist comments on numerous occasions, he has allowed others under his editorship of publications to publish racist articles. Yet we voted for him, that is accepting racism. A racist is fit to lead our country according to a majority of the nation. The main party of opposition is facing allegations of deep-seated anti-semitism, yet millions still vote for them. How is acceptance of it not ingrained when you look at that evidence?

[wilks_bfc]

What team was it that walked off the pitch due to racism and the Lancashire FA punished them....then the FA upheld the ruling. That tells you all u need to know about how much the FA and local football are doing about it

It was Padiham

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/pad ... -1-9701695

[TVC15]

I have never said its not an issue in our society, please don't put words in my mouth. My only point is that, in my opinion, racist behaviour, like that seen at football matches, is not ingrained in society, which Neville was saying was.

He wasn’t saying that at all.
You’re having a bit of a mare on this

Bit of advice - stop making stuff up.

[Grumps]

He wasn’t saying that at all.
You’re having a bit of a mare on this

Bit of advice - stop making stuff up.

[Hipper]

No, he was saying acceptance of it is. Our Prime Minister has published racist comments on numerous occasions, he has allowed others under his editorship of publications to publish racist articles. Yet we voted for him, that is accepting racism. A racist is fit to lead our country according to a majority of the nation. The main party of opposition is facing allegations of deep-seated anti-semitism, yet millions still vote for them. How is acceptance of it not ingrained when you look at that evidence?

You do not say, and cannot say, that these people who voted for Labour or Conservative actually believed these allegations of racism in the respective parties. They did not necessarily accept that who they were voting for was racist.

The General Election results are not necessarily an acceptance of racism.

[deanothedino]

You do not say, and cannot say, that these people who voted for Labour or Conservative actually believed these allegations of racism in the respective parties. They did not necessarily accept that who they were voting for was racist.

The General Election results are not necessarily an acceptance of racism.

Who doesn't believe the allegations of racism against Boris? Presumably only the illiterate, as he has published quite a bit of racist content. It's not even alleged.