Is the Dyche/ Burnley

[Jakubs Tash]

Steve g

Not a chance.

[Taffy on the wing]

All the “experts” on here knowing more than SD and his entire team grumbling does my head in

When we try and play slick passing football the opposition pick us off - it doesn’t work

We can’t afford the players than can play like that

So we play the way we do - personally I have no problem with it

We don’t have many supporters and some of our so called fans on here just seem to be too negative to be fans

We may even go down but I will still and will always be a Claret

UTC

Hear, Hear!

[Safron]

You leaving out

Brady 12m
Defour 8m
Cork 8m
Westwood 5m
Gray 9m
Vossen 9m ( wasnt it )
Wells 5m
Hennings 5m
Walters 3m
Pope 3m
JBG 3m
Peiters 3m
Lennon 3m
Couch free

Add the horrific loan spells of
Nkoudiu
Chalabah
Bamford
Flanagan
Drinkwater

Wages and fees utterly wasted on those

And the wages we wasted must be eye watering too

We had 5 keepers on our books at 1 stage, we bought a new 3rd choice as our current 4th choice was incapable to even sit on the bench!

Then theres the strikers that we like to sign and not play or are deemed not good enough

Lots are low fees in premier league terms, but add the fees and wages up and yoube a premier league player or 2 in there, without the hundreds of thousands a week In wages sat doing nowt

That lot makes your eyes water

[Jakubs Tash]

You leaving out

Brady 12m
Defour 8m
Cork 8m
Westwood 5m
Gray 9m
Vossen 9m ( wasnt it )
Wells 5m
Hennings 5m
Walters 3m
Pope 3m
JBG 3m
Peiters 3m
Lennon 3m
Couch free

Add the horrific loan spells of
Nkoudiu
Chalabah
Bamford
Flanagan
Drinkwater

Wages and fees utterly wasted on those

And the wages we wasted must be eye watering too

We had 5 keepers on our books at 1 stage, we bought a new 3rd choice as our current 4th choice was incapable to even sit on the bench!

Then theres the strikers that we like to sign and not play or are deemed not good enough

Lots are low fees in premier league terms, but add the fees and wages up and yoube a premier league player or 2 in there, without the hundreds of thousands a week In wages sat doing nowt

So, they were all poor signings were they? I mean, I can't for the life of me think what Defour, Cork, Westwood, Gray, Pope and JBG have really done for us....

Plus, if you're going to have a pop at the money spent, at least get the values correct.

Have you got a list for all other Premier League clubs too so we can compare and contrast? Or are we the only club to 'waste' money?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

There is and a lot of it is tosh. But theres some valid concerns too and so it's a matter of sifting the wheat from the chaff. Just refusing to accept any questioning of the way in which we're playing and its limitations is as inane as some of the dafter criticisms.

Totally agree we need to be better going forward and retain the ball better but sure Dyche and his coaching staff are aware of this. Constructive criticism is fine but so much drivel on here for those who for whatever reason don’t like Dyche.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Sam Allardyce. If we're going to play ugly football we may as well try and get the master of it. At least his teams generally had a bit of pace and power.

Is this so you’d be able to carry on being a whinging git on here?

[MACCA]

So, they were all poor signings were they? I mean, I can't for the life of me think what Defour, Cork, Westwood, Gray, Pope and JBG have really done for us....

Plus, if you're going to have a pop at the money spent, at least get the values correct.

Have you got a list for all other Premier League clubs too so we can compare and contrast? Or are we the only club to 'waste' money?

Nope you've read something not there. Not said a single one was a poor signing, except for the loans, merely adding to the earlier post showing what weve spent.

Yes some are poor, questionable or puzzling but that's another debate.
People can make their own minds up regards who has been a success, failure, bargain or expensive mistake.

All about options.

I've also probably missed half a dozen

[Hipper]

Performances like this (not one shot on goal....

I don't get this. I thought Rodriguez had a header cleared off the line?

I know I'm being a pedant but these stats do not seem to be accurate.

[thatdberight]

I don't get this. I thought Rodriguez had a header cleared off the line?

I know I'm being a pedant but these stats do not seem to be accurate.

A ball that had come off Rodriguez was cleared by Mina from the vicinity of the line but it was going across goal not towards the goal.

[Vino blanco]

Don't worry, we'll be fine once we learn to pass the ball to each other.
If we were to go down this season, which is a possibility , I would definitely want Dyche to stay as manager.

[thatdberight]

Don't worry, we'll be fine once we learn to pass the ball to each other.
If we were to go down this season, which is a possibility , I would definitely want Dyche to stay as manager.

At Championship level, we've played some exciting football under Dyche. We were always direct but, at that level, direct meant "trying to get up front and score" which is supposedly what the game's about and we tried to achieve it through a variety of ways including wing play and going through the midfield as well as sometimes straight from back to front. In the PL, it's almost always meant, "Hoooooffff!"

[Jakubs Tash]

Nope you've read something not there. Not said a single one was a poor signing, except for the loans, merely adding to the earlier post showing what weve spent.

Yes some are poor, questionable or puzzling but that's another debate.
People can make their own minds up regards who has been a success, failure, bargain or expensive mistake.

All about options.

I've also probably missed half a dozen

Ok, fair enough. And, yes, it is all about opinions.....

But we obviously had to spend that money to bring players in to progress the team/squad and, unfortunately, you can't pick everyone up for £250k these days.

Pieters, Lennon and Pope were all closer to £1m each than £3m and Vossen didn't cost anywhere near £9m (and we immediately got back whatever we spent on him).

Probably also worth pointing out some (not naming all players) profits we have made on players recently too for balance:

Keane - paid £3m, sold for £25m
Gray - paid £8/9m, sold for £18m
Vokes - paid £350k, sold for £10m
Heaton - paid £0, sold for £10m
Darikwa - paid £500k, sold for £1.5m

[bfcjg]

We just need some creative players remember when Defour, Brady, Ward JBG were linking up ripping some teams to shreds we can play football and it was under Dyche we did all this, we are now though to transparent and easy to suss out.

[TVC15]

Vossen was £3m and we got that money back.
JBG was £1.5m
Pope was £1.5m
Gray was £6m - it only went to £9m because we got promoted.
Lennon was a free
Pieters £1.5m
Hennings - £3m

It’s strange that when people are debating our transfers how they tend to inflate the price - they never seem to get it wrong by stating a lower figure. Wonder why ?

[TsarBomba]

The Board won’t remotely entertain a change of manager whilst we’re still in the PL, and pocketing truck loads of cash. They don’t care about the style of football.

Dyche may fancy a new challenge, but where would he go?He hasn’t shown that he’s capable of balancing a PL campaign with a Europe League/Cup run, and undoubtedly, his reputation for playing direct will go against him.

As Spice has pointed out, we’ve regressed from this point 2 seasons ago, when Defour had us ticking along nicely. The fact we haven’t evolved after nearly 5 years of PL footy does point to Dyche being a one trick pony.

Dyche has been fantastic, but at some point the alignment between him and the club will shift.

[SussexDon1inIreland]

Another thing someone mentioned Traoré at Wolves why would a player like this even want to play for us? Fancy foreigners are not for us.

I am tired of reading on here all these experts - why don’t they put their names forward for football management

We are a small club and I know some of you hate this but we are most definitely punching above our weight

I have just found the foe button - press it if you don’t agree


I am pressing it right now for a lot of you moaners

UTC

[Billy Balfour]

Time to pack your bags Dyche. I'm sick of you keeping us in the top flight on a shoestring, in EPL terms, budget.

[Erasmus]

It's a very obvious point, but Sean Dyche is the only manager ever who has found a way of keeping a club of Burnley's size and financial stature in the Premier League for four or five seasons. The way this has been achieved is by adopting a rather unattractive, attritional style of football for a good number of games. I honestly don't think there is another way, and the evidence to support that view is that no other comparable club has been able to do it.

Some have mentioned Sheffield United, but they have only been at this level for half a season, and you might compare them to Blackpool under Ian Holloway or even Huddersfield under David Wagner. Sheffield United have been exceptional this season but one can only cite them as an example to follow when they have done it for a number of seasons.

The choices we have are rather stark and certainly not of club's making. We could move away from our present style of football, but for a club of our status that would almost certainly mean relegation; or we can stick with the present approach which will probably keep us up this season. The best option, and I am sure this is what Sean Dyche wants to do, is to move just a little towards a more progressive style. That will depend on us being able to bring in better players, which is incredibly difficult for a club like Burnley, but if it can be done we may be able to play in a style that is a little more attractive but not radically different. For good or for ill, we are Burnley and have to accept all that this entails.

[BennyD]

Iv seen us play against multiple League One sides since Dyche has been here and we have never looked like Barcelona.

If we were in League 1 with the players we have, SD would have a full strength team out every week.

[KateR]

strange thread to me, we are hovering mid table, if we had won or drawn yesterday I wonder if this thread would have emerged or was it someone just bored and annoyed at the loss. First half we had the best chance and to be honest Wood should have scored but he is not a 35+ Million pound player, is he?

I can enjoy a defensive display just on it's own and there are not many teams around better than us most weeks, yes, yes I know we have off days but in general we are good. Midfield is short of creativity and pace, the forwards are average, seen much worse playing in the Prem and a lot more money, SD has done a great job in my opinion with the resources he has available, can it be better, absolutely. Like many have stated I firmly believe we will struggle without him, yet I can see him going but I expect to a lower division with the "potential" and the finances to push for the promised land and definitely a much larger budget, I hope not for a long time though and am convinced he will make the decision, he will not be pushed.

I look at teams like Fulham last season and was envious of there spending and on paper should have easily been top half, I think there has been much more spending from teams below us to but they are below us, not a chance we have to worry about relegation this season IMO.

I think fans, manager and the board all think the same, however it is the fans and the board that differ in realities, SD is paid by the board and can only buy sell within that structure, he is doing a good job and can not see anyone doing better, so definitely hoping he is staying for a while. Some fans have short memories and really do think it's easy, few seasons in the Prem, splash the cash, I remember Portsmouth, B'burn, Bolton (ten years ahead of us) Leeds and many many others

[ewanrob]

Does it become stale after a good few years, if he was allowed to spend on the players he wanted (including bigger wage structure) would we play tactically any different....who knows. He clearly plays to the strengths of the squad hes got which is fine, my only issues are the reluctance to substitute early, reluctance to give some of his signings a decent run, and to have a Plan B...to really affect a game with a change.

But heyho, what journey hes taken us on.

[NL Claret]

You could read some of these posts and never coming close to thinking about 2 promotions and 5 seasons in the PL.

When the club are looking for the next manager they should get some of the more vocal utc experts in for interview.

[Woodleyclaret]

Long may Sean continue serving up Premier League football
We can play attacking football.Norwich and WestHam games at home and Watford away prove this
We have our players back from injury.I thought Charlie was excellent yesterday and JBG is back
You get down to the Turf tomorrow to see us demolish United UTC

[tiger76]

Sean has plenty of credit in the bank,but this summer is going to require a rebuild,and hopefully more emphasis on unearthing young gems we can mould,this is tougher for us to achieve as a PL club,but is essential to ensure a bright future both on and off the pitch.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I’m sure if we were playing free flowing football like Norwich and currently in the bottom 3 the posters who constantly give Dyche stick would of course be giving him their full backing and not demanding a new manager.

[elwaclaret]

Mid season blues are back. I would love to see two or three top notch signings to bed in for next season. We are reasonably comfortable in the table and it seems a good time to be bedding in players for next season. Eventually I expect the club to really throw the dice in the transfer market to up our style of play. However they know better than me when that time is right, in the mean time I expect the club are happy enough treading water ready for the next Great Leap Forward.

This is a club developing all across the board, building for the long term. SD is central to that, is actively involved in areas that the managers of other clubs are not even consulted about. SD will be unlikely to EVER get such input anywhere else... the club is being managed not just the team.

There will be a time for SD to go, but it will be when as a team they can finally say.... that part of the project has been implemented fully, SD and the club have hit the crest of the wave. That I believe is still at least a couple of seasons away.

[diamondpocket]

Just look at clubs like Wet Spam, Wet Brom and the Geordies who have all had odd stints down in the Championship after thinking that after a few years in the Prem they are ready to look up and start investing more on foreign players and ultimately get sucked in and go down. It's good to have ambition but also not get caught up in the stardom. I think Dyche has that down to a tee; he is grounded and suits us well in that sense.

Our progress may seem slow and a bit turgid at times but we are becoming a solid Prem club. Some days it's good, others not. Let's not start kidding ourselves that we are something we are not. Obviously, the squad needs some changes and I'm hoping after a few years of experienced, Prem 30 year old players coming in (baring Taylor) that we can see a couple of younger ones coming in too to keep that blend right.

We've also invested heavily in the Training Facilities and the upkeep of that so a lot of the money has gone into that.

[Bfcboyo]

I honestly think that if Dyche signed any two players of his choice from any team, the style of play would be no different.

You missed the season defour was instrumental and we moved the ball around better then.

Remember that away win at Everton and Hendricks goal.

[Steve1956]

This is quite interesting

[JohnMac]

To be fair he’s had cash to spend...

Hendrick £10m
Brady £13m
Gibson £15m
Vydra £10m
Rodriguez £10m
Wood £17m

None of those players are worth anywhere near what we paid but market forces dictate the value unfortunately. Leeds/Fulham/MacCormack put paid to realistic transfer prices forever.

I'm not sure SD is at fault for our poor recruitment as I'm sure there are many players around the globe who fit our profile.

Having said that, those that have come from afar don't seem willing to put in the graft to earn their corn and the likes of Mahrez are most definitely not out there is droves.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

There is questioning and then there is utter rubbish posted every time we get beat.

Manchester United tomorrow, in our own back yard no less, who woulda thunk that a few years ago!!??

And possibly only four or five wins from safety...BEFORE NEW YEAR!!!

[ElectroClaret]

strange thread to me...

Not very strange when you look at some of the contributors.

[elwaclaret]

From no more than reading reasonable transfer gossip and keeping half an ear to the ground, I get the impression that the transfer market is finally slowing down away from the mega moves. Hope so this can only be good for the game. A lot of the “big” earopean clubs are starting to shy away from the astronomic fees... I hope it is the start of a trend.

[KateR]

Manchester United tomorrow, in our own back yard no less, who woulda thunk that a few years ago!!??

And possibly only four or five wins from safety...BEFORE NEW YEAR!!!

four or five wins before New Year, are we playing everyday or do we have a couple of days where we play twice But I like the way you're thinking

[Funkydrummer]

four or five wins before New Year, are we playing everyday or do we have a couple of days where we play twice But I like the way you're thinking

I think you've misinterpreted that little piece of factual info Kate.

[dandeclaret]

What a bunch of soft arses..... as ever, no balance, just polarised opinions. Transfers put up that have failed, but no Westwood, Taylor, Barnes, Wood, Cork, Tarkowski etc.....

I can give you balance from afar.... I reckon if I was going, I wouldn't enjoy the football that we play. From afar though, the performance of this manager, and the results he gets have to be admired - no ifs, no buts, no nothing. The idea that Burnley Football Club would wish to move on this manager is fanciful. Results wise, league position wise, these years are as good as it gets. To put it into context a bit more

* Preston, who had probably higher levels of investment than Burnley whilst in the championship, haven't had a year in the top division for 57 years (according to Sky Sports last night)
* Wigan, are bottom of the Championship, and pretty much Bankrupt. Stoke and Huddersfield are staring at the trap door too
* Bolton, and Blackburn are basically insolvent.
* Norwich are bottom - or close to it, as are Watford.
* Aston Villa spent £90m in the summer and slipped into the bottom 3.
* Leeds, Southampton, Watford, Stoke, Sunderland are basket cases of clubs.


BUT BUT BUT Sheffield United - yep, like Ipswich and Burnley and to a lesser extent Wolves they have had an incredible season, resulting in Uefa Cup football.

Do Burnley make mistakes? Yes.

Do they make fewer than most similar sized clubs and some slightly bigger? You'd better believe it. And I'd probably recommend being grateful for what we have, rather than resentful for what we haven't.... because once that cycle starts to turn, it doesn't stop quickly, and we've never been the club to throw huge amounts of money to arrest it. One club mentality, stronger together and all that stuff - it really does matter.

Don't @ me.

[Jakubclaret]

The norm is to settle for mediocrity, a ever growing number would prefer a slide (a gamble) & bounce back with some sort of excitement.

[dandeclaret]

If you think Burnley being in the premier league and being competitive there is mediocrity, then you need to recalibrate the scales that you are using.

Realistically, where do you think a club like Burnley would normalise in the 91 clubs in the league, all being equal......

Top 6?

6th - 10th?

11th - 20th?

Top 10 championship?

where?

[NL Claret]

Dande's posts are spot on.

[boatshed bill]

Dyche is the archetypal pragmatist who will never produce exciting football at this level because he fears invention and risk.
It has served Burnley well but he has accumulated a team of workhorses which is all too rapidly ageing and if we go down we will be totally reliant on the youth system to produce the goods.
Dyche best recruits have been the young players Howe unearthed and a few of his own. His forays into the senior citizen ranks which he prefers and Europe in which we are naive victims have largely produced nothing.

it's impossible to "rapidly age" everyone ages at the same speed...obvious!

[Jakubclaret]

If you think Burnley being in the premier league and being competitive there is mediocrity, then you need to recalibrate the scales that you are using.

Realistically, where do you think a club like Burnley would normalise in the 91 clubs in the league, all being equal......

Top 6?

Top 10?

Top 20?


Top 30?

where?

More & more people week in & week out are getting jacked off despite all the reasonings & explanations. It'll only go so far.

[dandeclaret]

Cool - so where - all things b being equal in the football pyramid do you think Burnley would normalise. You didn't answer the question.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Really strange that people equate relegation to a lower league as the key to excitement. Having watched us in the lower leagues the majority of them were shite. 19 game run under Cotterill anyone? Getting beat 6-5 off Grimsby or 7 at at home to Sheff Wed under Stan? Great times.

[Royboyclaret]

If you think Burnley being in the premier league and being competitive there is mediocrity, then you need to recalibrate the scales that you are using.

Realistically, where do you think a club like Burnley would normalise in the 91 clubs in the league, all being equal......

Top 6?

6th - 10th?

11th - 20th?

Top 10 championship?

where?

Posters who frequent the Magic Money Tree thread will know that we have debated the "normalising arrangement" on more than one occasion. Burnley rank alongside Millwall and Rotherham.

[KateR]

I don't think it's to do with rationale or picking a position through the leagues, it's more to do with excitement and something to play for during the season rather than something to avoid.

Some would prefer top 6 Championship, try to win promotion, win the league, win the play off at Wembley rather than fight relegation being in the bottom 10 of the Premier, I can see the appeal of this, but it is not for me, top 10 Premier League. We are only two places from that and have been in it for numerous weeks so far this season, but can also say as the song says, entertain us. Sometimes that is missing, however my expectations are that BFC will never be a premier top six side, so change who I support or cut my expectations to meet my teams abilities. Always been a Claret, always will be so my expectations are somewhat lower than many on here, but my glass is always half full, could be so much worse, it really could, ask Own Coyle

[Long Time Lurker]

I don't mind our style of play. Unfortunately when it comes to getting the job done we seem to cut it very close at times.

I don't have any delusions of top six grandeur, but if we could simply increase the quality of the starting 11 or bring in a few players that will develop over time and meet that requirement we could make life a lot easier for ourselves.

At the moment we can face down any team if every player is performing at 100%, but if one or two of them are having an off day or we have to bring on our backups we struggle.

The lads and the gaffer consistently put in performances far and above what we have any right to expect. However, we can't expect them to be on top of their game for every match week in and week out. Neither can we expect to play pretty much the same formation every time we take to the pitch with the expectation of getting a result.

We need to evolve and grow. I'm not talking about switching to a new style of play. That would be a mistake. We simply need to build upon what we have by adding more dimensions and different facets to what we are about. If resolute defending and lumping the ball up the pitch gets us results thats fine by me, but we need to have something else in reserve for when that isn't going to get us a result.

The gaffer and the team are fine, it is our underperforming recruitment that is the issue.

[boatshed bill]

I don't wish to be over critical, but this gets my goat: "maximum effort is the minimum requirement", are we still getting this from the staff? When was the last time our pressing was shown as an example? When was the last time one of our players ran the furthest in a game (George Boyd?)?

[dandeclaret]

I don't think it's to do with rationale or picking a position through the leagues, it's more to do with excitement and something to play for during the season rather than something to avoid.

But they are playing for something. Premiership survival..... there's nothing else to play for in the league is there?

[boatshed bill]

But they are playing for something. Premiership survival..... there's nothing else to play for in the league is there?

Money? Kudos?

[Giftonsnoidea]

I would expect both Dyche and Garlick to go in two years time when his contract is up.

Sean I’m afraid to say has run out of ideas style wise, our best midfielder has gone and the board (so far) have shown absolutely no ambition to replace the skill of Defour. Penny pinching has been our modus operandi since last season selling off assets instead of investing in the future.

If Hendrick goes we are in big trouble as we have no one to replace him. A lot of our good play has come from him and O’Neil this season.

We need someone in the mould of Chris Wilder who at least has some original ideas to at least attempt to play “some” pleasing on the eye football.

It also might be time for a Garlick to sell up or get an outside investor in who wants to keep us at this level. There’s been a lot of back sliding re: our ambition since we came seventh, like him saying staying up is all we’re planning for, very negative outlook I would say. A lot has changed in a season and half it seems.