BillyIngham'sShorts wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:58 pm

funny how expectations change over time and how short memories are : first couple of years after promotion, all BFC fans were just very excited and privileged to be in Prem and any result was a massive bonus whatever the performance. Ask any fan in first yr back after 3 rd promotion if they would take us being in top half at chrimbo 2019 and they would have snapped your hand off. But now a few years on, fans are expecting us to play nice progressive football and beat top 6 teams. Deluded in my view. Just like Stoke and WBA fans.
We need to replace Bob Lord with new Dyche stand whilst we have the money and he can move on in the next year or two ; at least we will have more of a legacy in addition to new Training facilities and Royal Dyche pub.
In Dyche we trust.

Again. Nobody is expecting to ship out everyone bar Pope, McNeil and Tarks. The opposite. Three new players would be fine. Three who are younger, quicker and more skilful than what we have.

Its actually important we keep plenty of the attributes Barnes, Westwood and Bardsley bring.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:56 pm

Not sure about that, where is the pride in time wasting from minute 1? pride in being out footballed twice a season by lower league teams? Proud about playing the worst style of play the Premier League has ever seen?

Is there really much pride in scraping survival yearly while boring millions of football fans in the process? I like the song “no1 likes us” and it’s true, why would anyone outside of Burnley like us? People are quick to cry about lack of TV games and media not obsessing over us, they can’t wait for us to disappear so they don’t have to cover our boring team.

it’s a real shame the ugly club we’ve become, we sold our soul to milk the Premier League cash cow and for what? We aren’t looking to reinvest or improve, just float around like a bad smell for as long as we linger.

You float round here like a bad smell every time we lose a match.

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:12 pm

You float round here like a bad smell every time we lose a match.

Not the only one either.

People fear us. The boring Burnley mantra they chant is just a mask to cover their anxiety . The Twitter clarets bingo is great , really nails the predictable whining of plastic football fans who hate us beating them . We probably never enter their heads till they watch their teams struggling with us . Anything less than thrashing us they see as a loss . Our defensive game is a joy to watch for me. The best time to be a claret in my lifetime . We will look back at these days with pride . The losses will be forgotten. A mid table premiership club . Who’d a though it ?
I love going on opposition forums before they play us , full of anxiety about us which is a backhanded compliment to us . Man united fans not at all confident about getting a result here . Read that again, man united fans not confident about beating us.
We are such a tiny town with limited resources . What we are as a football club is simply immense .

Against Everton, it was not the worst performance of the year or the worst we have played. It was bad, but I think peoples stances are starting to change more to do with the continuation of this football style rather than the peaks and troughs of it.

We used to mix up play so much more than currently, not with a "better" side, a much similar one.
The squad age is increasingly worrying and means at some stage soon a rebuilding job is needed.
A few years ago this system/tactic was well up there with the best against sides trying to play football, we outran teams, bullied them and played football equally at times. Teams are evolving as play does every decade or so and the tactic is being left behind. Lower league teams will have tried to emulate us. Look at Sheff United, again they can mix it up well. The tactic is outdated, if every club starts doing what we were doing we are stuffed because we dont look like evolving.

The 2 questions for me-
After the past few transfer windows, players like Vydra and Gibson big money signings no where near the team, is Dyche the man to rebuild 6-7 players in a side over the next few transfer windows?
And do you think Dyche will ever change this system?

If both answers are no the writings on the wall.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:44 pm

What a bunch of soft arses..... as ever, no balance, just polarised opinions. Transfers put up that have failed, but no Westwood, Taylor, Barnes, Wood, Cork, Tarkowski etc.....

I can give you balance from afar.... I reckon if I was going, I wouldn't enjoy the football that we play. From afar though, the performance of this manager, and the results he gets have to be admired - no ifs, no buts, no nothing. The idea that Burnley Football Club would wish to move on this manager is fanciful. Results wise, league position wise, these years are as good as it gets. To put it into context a bit more

* Preston, who had probably higher levels of investment than Burnley whilst in the championship, haven't had a year in the top division for 57 years (according to Sky Sports last night)
* Wigan, are bottom of the Championship, and pretty much Bankrupt. Stoke and Huddersfield are staring at the trap door too
* Bolton, and Blackburn are basically insolvent.
* Norwich are bottom - or close to it, as are Watford.
* Aston Villa spent £90m in the summer and slipped into the bottom 3.
* Leeds, Southampton, Watford, Stoke, Sunderland are basket cases of clubs.


BUT BUT BUT Sheffield United - yep, like Ipswich and Burnley and to a lesser extent Wolves they have had an incredible season, resulting in Uefa Cup football.

Do Burnley make mistakes? Yes.

Do they make fewer than most similar sized clubs and some slightly bigger? You'd better believe it. And I'd probably recommend being grateful for what we have, rather than resentful for what we haven't.... because once that cycle starts to turn, it doesn't stop quickly, and we've never been the club to throw huge amounts of money to arrest it. One club mentality, stronger together and all that stuff - it really does matter.

Don't @ me.

I dont think theres any doubt about the scale of our achievement in getting to and consolidating our position in this league. Or at least there shouldn't be - it's hard to over estimate it.

I think perhaps there are now some legitimate questions about what is coming next, and how we build this into a legacy. Those questions are partly about our style of play and about recruitment and succession planning.

The style is increasingly one dimensional and functional, and at times quite dull as a result. There is a valid concern that this will turn some supporters off, which in turn means we're in danger of missing the chance the premier league offers to build our fan base. But the other side of the equation is that potentially it's becoming a bit easy for teans who pay attention to counter us, which is potentially a more immediate problem. There is a reasonable argument (I think; I've made it) that we have the players to play a more refined style of football on certain games, but we aren't currently exploiting them all.

The other issue is that our recruitment does appear to have stalled a bit. This needs to be put in perspective because it's in many respects a reflection on the quality of our historic recruitment that we cant improve easily and at a realistic price. But theres an increasing concern that our failure to recruit in successive windows means there may be an enormous recruitment task being stored up for ome of the next couple of summers. Theres a big task ahead in midfield but theres also no obvious replacement for Tarkowski at centre back or Bardsley at right back.

These worries, frustrations, niggles etc need to be put in the context of the achievements of the past few years. But those achievements cant be a free pass nor be used to erase all criticism of style or off field recruitment. Realistically we cant stay at this level forever, and whilst that should always temper expectations it's also important we dont squander this opportunity to put in place a legacy.

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:27 pm

And while many of you will laugh at them, I think we can all be fairly sure they will be in the PL next season, as a well run club, playing better football than us.

And probably go straight back down playing their better football than us, as have countless well run clubs. All the while we carry on defying the odds.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:48 pm

I don't get why people think that it is only one way or the other.

The core of our squad is fine. Only tweaks are needed. We can gradually progress. We don't have to ship 6 players out and bring in young prospects.

A new and 'different' right winger, right back and central midfielder would be fine!

Agreed. Give me a footballing midfielder (Defour replacement), some pace and power out wide right and a quick right full back (basically a right footed Charlie Taylor) and I think that would make a HUGE difference to us.

There are some valid points and observations in this thread, problem is, some of it is being levelled at an in appropriate time.

It's not long ago that there wasn't even facilities for the players to shower after training. We barely had a first eleven, and no quality or depth to the squad. No scouting network. Academy falling to pieces. A bit of a tin pot amateur set up in the backroom and support staff. We really were so far off being an up to date professional club on so many levels, including our approach to how we did our business and projected ourselves. Ground with two knacky old stands and open at the corners.

The rebuilding of our club both on and off the pitch won't be done with only 4 years of premier league money, it's a longer term project than that. With only the income we generate being available to address the decades of under investment, somethings are going to take a bit longer than some fans want.

I like to think getting it right on the pitch is quite a high priority

As I’ve said previously, building a club the size of ours is a slow and sometimes painful process. At the moment I think the majority of fans recognise that we are probably in a ‘painful’ period right now. But we could be through it quicker than you think, so why wouldn’t you want to be able to say you never gave up supporting, even when things were a bit difficult, instead of wanting to put the boot in.
Should the unthinkable happen and we manage to beat Man U tonight we will be 2 points off euro qualification and just 5 points off a Champs League place. I know it’s a big if as Man U and Arsenal are not teams I ever expect us to beat. However anything is possible in football.
So why can’t you critics just get behind us, no matter how poor our technical quality might appear at times.
Look at it this way, how well are we doing, considering our players aren’t the best technically?
Listen to what Ancelloti expects of his players. He isn’t expecting them to do any more than they are capable of. He knows that sometimes you just have to scrap for results.
It’s a pity that the critics on here can’t just accept this fact.

claretspice wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:33 pm

But the other side of the equation is that potentially it's becoming a bit easy for teans who pay attention to counter us, which is potentially a more immediate problem.

I suppose on the flip side to that is that teams have a bit of trepidation when we win a corner, for example, as it's very difficult to deal with and there is no easy solution for the defending team.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:54 pm

I suppose on the flip side to that is that teams have a bit of trepidation when we win a corner, for example, as it's very difficult to deal with and there is no easy solution for the defending team.

That is only relevant if can actually win corners.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:44 pm

So why can’t you critics just get behind us, no matter how poor our technical quality might appear at times

I think its possible to both address perceived issues on this board, whilst also getting behind the team at games.
And our technical ability will always appear poor if we employ the same tactics and attitude as 2 days ago. These players have looked technically fine at this level on enough occasions to warrant all the criticism Thursday brought. There's a balance between playing football and keeping things tight. Thursday was so far in the wrong direction it's difficult to know what they were even aiming for

BabylonClaret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:28 pm

Really?

Cotterill in the latter 18 months? The turgid non-defending of Howe in the last 6 months?

Dande is absolutely spot on. He's honest here in that he says he wouidn't like the style (although I maintain we're direct and pragmatic rather than a hoofball team - whatever that means - and capable of playing neat tidy football as well as hitting longer percentage balls) and yet he's still saying this is the best it's been as a Burnley fan for a long time.

Even the dullest of game at this level is streets ahead of the average Championship game - don't get all rosy tinted or misty eyed avoer the brilliance of the Championship - it's a massive slog and whilst I don't doubt this side we have now would be top 3 comfortably and we'd have a lot more to cheer, the quality of a lot of the games would be worse.

I stand by what I’ve posted, if you read my posts I’m defo not into cotterball et al

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:39 pm

I think its possible to both address perceived issues on this board, whilst also getting behind the team at games.
And our technical ability will always appear poor if we employ the same tactics and attitude as 2 days ago. These players have looked technically fine at this level on enough occasions to warrant all the criticism Thursday brought. There's a balance between playing football and keeping things tight. Thursday was so far in the wrong direction it's difficult to know what they were even aiming for

They don’t have the technical quality to play at this level.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:44 pm

As I’ve said previously, building a club the size of ours is a slow and sometimes painful process. At the moment I think the majority of fans recognise that we are probably in a ‘painful’ period right now. But we could be through it quicker than you think, so why wouldn’t you want to be able to say you never gave up supporting, even when things were a bit difficult, instead of wanting to put the boot in.
Should the unthinkable happen and we manage to beat Man U tonight we will be 2 points off euro qualification and just 5 points off a Champs League place. I know it’s a big if as Man U and Arsenal are not teams I ever expect us to beat. However anything is possible in football.
So why can’t you critics just get behind us, no matter how poor our technical quality might appear at times.
Look at it this way, how well are we doing, considering our players aren’t the best technically?
Listen to what Ancelloti expects of his players. He isn’t expecting them to do any more than they are capable of. He knows that sometimes you just have to scrap for results.
It’s a pity that the critics on here can’t just accept this fact.

Everton have technical players in abundance. They players we have aren’t good enough to play a style of football that is progressive. We’ve reached the point where we are safe in the league, we rightly want to start the transition to being better by developing the team. We need technical players who can move the ball and play in small spaces.

Watch how many times Cork gets bullied off the ball, or passes sideways, or chases a lose touch. He’s simply not good enough at this level. He defo can’t play in a two, and he’s getting isolated which is further highlighting his inadequate skill set.

BillyIngham'sShorts wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:58 pm

funny how expectations change over time and how short memories are : first couple of years after promotion, all BFC fans were just very excited and privileged to be in Prem and any result was a massive bonus whatever the performance. Ask any fan in first yr back after 3 rd promotion if they would take us being in top half at chrimbo 2019 and they would have snapped your hand off. But now a few years on, fans are expecting us to play nice progressive football and beat top 6 teams. Deluded in my view. Just like Stoke and WBA fans.
We need to replace Bob Lord with new Dyche stand whilst we have the money and he can move on in the next year or two ; at least we will have more of a legacy in addition to new Training facilities and Royal Dyche pub.
In Dyche we trust.

Nothing deluded about wanting to watch good football as a fan, in fact it should be demanded by everyone. If you want to watch dross for £40 a pop then go for it , a lot of people don’t though but the choice is yours. The hierarchy definitely want more fans like you....

Eh? He was man of match t’other week !

Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:33 pm

They don’t have the technical quality to play at this level.

6 internationals in starting XI. One current under 21. And that doesn't include Barnes, Ben Mee, last season's PoTY (Westwood) and current favourite, Taylor (one of most technically gifted in squad). We have shown technical quality plenty of times. Defour didn't take us to Europe all on his own, as much as he was instrumental and hugely missed

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:47 pm

6 internationals in starting XI. One current under 21. And that doesn't include Barnes, Ben Mee, last season's PoTY (Westwood) and current favourite, Taylor (one of most technically gifted in squad). We have shown technical quality plenty of times. Defour didn't take us to Europe all on his own, as much as he was instrumental and hugely missed

Hendrick, McNeil, Taylor, JRod, Bardsley, JBG and Vydra are the only players capable of playing with any sort of technical skill.

Anyway let’s worry about Dyche to West Ham

Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:03 pm

Hendrick, McNeil, Taylor, JRod, Bardsley, JBG and Vydra are the only players capable of playing with any sort of technical skill.

Anyway let’s worry about Dyche to West Ham

You worry too much that’s not going to happen

East Ham wouldn’t employ Dyche at this moment in time!

Nobody would employ Dyche, not in the PL anyway.

That's why he's still with us, no other reason.

Dyche will go in 2020 to a bigger club.

Half a billion quid or more this decade we've had...

and we've gone ABSOLUTELY ******* NOWHERE if not backwards

We’re looking so much better as a footballing team with the current players on the turf.

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:04 am

Partnership nearing its end?

It's getting closer, day-by-day. As does everything. A little like your grumbling.

If I was you, I'd just enjoy the fact that we are punching way above our weight and are solvent. That wasn't the case when he arrived.

When it does eventually arrive, we will be in a much worse predicament so I'd stop being negative and enjoy it as much as you can.

JimmyRobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:37 pm

It's getting closer, day-by-day. As does everything. A little like your grumbling.

If I was you, I'd just enjoy the fact that we are punching way above our weight and are solvent. That wasn't the case when he arrived.

When it does eventually arrive, we will be in a much worse predicament so I'd stop being negative and enjoy it as much as you can.

I ain't grumbling pal....I asked a question which has a had quite a few replies...for and against its a forum people discuss things on, that's what it's all about.

tarkys_ears wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:21 pm

Half a billion quid or more this decade we've had...

and we've gone ABSOLUTELY ******* NOWHERE if not backwards

Around 60% of that goes on wages. We then have to fund investment in infrastructure such as training ground, club shop, two corner stands, etc. We need money to replace the Cricketfield and Bob Lord stands.
The other premier league clubs continue to invest in players to take their clubs forward, yet we are still holding our own. We may not be making much headway on the others, but we certainly are moving forward.

After that 45 minutes maybe it is time for a change,we're becoming increasingly stale under Sean,and normally i'm a fierce defender of his,but you have to wonder how long this malaise can be allowed to continue.

Must be closer after that abysmal 45 mins

I think it is.

He wont leave, currently nobody in the Prem would touch him with a barge pole a few championship clubs might take a punt on him and the board quite rightly wont sack him. Hopefully we will stay up by the skin of our teeth and hopefully he and the board will learn from this seasons mistakes both on and off the the field.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:45 pm

He wont leave, currently nobody in the Prem would touch him with a barge pole a few championship clubs might take a punt on him and the board quite rightly wont sack him. Hopefully we will stay up by the skin of our teeth and hopefully he and the board will learn from this seasons mistakes both on and off the the field.

We didnt learn from the season before last so whatever happens we are never gonna learn from our mistakes,we will just erase them from our memory as though it never happened

Steve1956 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:59 pm

We didnt learn from the season before last so whatever happens we are never gonna learn from our mistakes,we will just erase them from our memory as though it never happened

I hope not but fear you might be right.

Just for a bit of balance, I saw Bournemouth on TV today. They lost 0-3 as well. but were their fans saying "yes, we're playing badly, but at least we're playing an entertaining brand of football"? No, of course not. Partly because they weren't winning, but chiefly because it isn't entertaining.

The reason our football is not entertaining at present is because we're playing badly. The reason Bournemouth's football is not entertaining at present is because they're playing badly. Whatever style of football, it is not good to watch if you do it badly.

When we’ve won this season generally it’s been ugly and awful football.