Be careful what we wish for.

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fanzone
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Be careful what we wish for.

Post by fanzone » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:45 pm

People calling for Dyches head need to look at the likes of Charlton and Stoke. They wanted the fancy football and they are now f****d.

We are a team made up of championship players with a championship budget punching well above our weight.

The football is sh1te, there's zero entertainment but what do we want.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

We literally have a budget twice as big as most Championship teams. We could out spend Leeds.

joey13
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by joey13 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

We’ve got a Premier league budget

Inchy
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Inchy » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

Whose calling for Dyches head? No one! People are just pointing out that 3 shots on target in 4 games and Long as striker is garbage
Last edited by Inchy on Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cockneyclaret
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by cockneyclaret » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

A scouting network that can find new realistic targets across the globe, that's all I want

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by randomclaret2 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:47 pm

We want football that isnt shite and some entertainment

Billy Balfour
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Billy Balfour » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:47 pm

But what do we want? A bit more of what we showed in the second half.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:49 pm

fanzone wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:45 pm
People calling for Dyches head need to look at the likes of Charlton and Stoke. They wanted the fancy football and they are now f****d.

We are a team made up of championship players with a championship budget punching well above our weight.

The football is sh1te, there's zero entertainment but what do we want.
I would quite like to regroup and have a run of 23 undefeated in the Championship,we can not compete equally against these super rich sides and quite frankly it's becoming tedious watching us try.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by tarkys_ears » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:50 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:47 pm
But what do we want? A bit more of what we showed in the second half.

I don't think ANYONE is asking for more!

boatshed bill
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:51 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm
We’ve got a Premier league budget
Only just.
The problem right now (as I see it) is that we are paying PL wages to too many non-playing squad members. Boot 2 or 3 of them down the road, bring in the best 3 U23s and we could afford a quality playmaker.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Rather have the results - don’t care how we get them.

If you Want entertainment - try Netflix
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by SkiptonClaret » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:52 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm
A scouting network that can find new realistic targets across the globe, that's all I want
You mean a scouting network. If Pieters and Rodriguez were the sum total in summer (and Crouch last January) then I refuse to believe we have one.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:53 pm

credit to Dyche today, clearly gave them a bollocking at half time, made really positive substitutions, gave Dwight a free role - completely changed the game but we couldn't find a finish
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by yosserhughes » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:16 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm
A scouting network that can find new realistic targets across the globe, that's all I want
As CT has said time after times Dyche has the final say on Transfers.

cockneyclaret
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by cockneyclaret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:18 pm

So he gave the green light for a 11mill move for Vydra yet doesn't fancy playing him

Swizzlestick
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:19 pm

Tedious OP. Small mercies you didn’t mention Orient.

Stoke finished consistently higher in the league after Pulis left. They went down because of poor recruitment.

There’s more to football that what’s being currently served up.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by MDWat » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:19 pm

There's absolutely no way we should be ditching Dyche but that doesn't mean he's beyond question. Some of the football at the moment is beyond dire. We've had 2 shots on target 4 and a half hours of football. That's ridiculous.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:25 pm

I'm CERTAINLY not calling for SD's head, but I do find it rather worrying that a couple of years ago we were largely giving the "top" teams a real game, especially at The Turf, but we seem to have regressed in many ways, rather than move forward and we most often seem to give them far less trouble. For example I was happy to see Gray and Vokes move on as the time seemed right for all concerned, but instead of striding ahead we appear to have slid backwards and we actually looked more dangerous against the bigger teams with those 2 playing than we do now.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by beddie » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:33 pm

Until we pay higher wages that will attract a better class of player we are going to have continue shopping in the bargain basement department. The Recruitment team may have been doing an excellent job in identifying players both previously and going forward, however, the problem might be that the Chairman won't agree to the fees even though Dyche wants the player(s).

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by yosserhughes » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:35 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:18 pm
So he gave the green light for a 11mill move for Vydra yet doesn't fancy playing him
I don't know, maybe CT could shed some light on the Vydra Transfer ?

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:18 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:53 pm
credit to Dyche today, clearly gave them a bollocking at half time, made really positive substitutions, gave Dwight a free role - completely changed the game but we couldn't find a finish
To clarify your thoughts

He failed to organise/inspire the team to go at it from minute one, and let this carry on until half time (Lampard reacted as early as 30 mins today when he saw problems with Chelsea's performance)

He may have given them a deserved bollocking at half time, but no subs used until 60 mins and,as usual, the last one comes on after 87 mins

One shot on target (2 in last 3 games) confirms we couldn't find a finish

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:31 pm

yosserhughes wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:16 pm
As CT has said time after times Dyche has the final say on Transfers.
Must be true if CT says so ;)
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:05 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:18 pm
To clarify your thoughts

He failed to organise/inspire the team to go at it from minute one, and let this carry on until half time (Lampard reacted as early as 30 mins today when he saw problems with Chelsea's performance)

He may have given them a deserved bollocking at half time, but no subs used until 60 mins and,as usual, the last one comes on after 87 mins

One shot on target (2 in last 3 games) confirms we couldn't find a finish
aye..............Lampard was able to put on Brazilian international Jorginhio who cost 57 million and earns just short of 6 million per season

What options of this calibre does Dyche have ?

Surprised you aren't asking why we aren't battling Liverpool for the title if it's that simple

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:24 pm

Three points v Villa
I wish for a cup run too but lets put Villa to the sword first

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:40 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:05 pm
aye..............Lampard was able to put on Brazilian international Jorginhio who cost 57 million and earns just short of 6 million per season

What options of this calibre does Dyche have ?

Surprised you aren't asking why we aren't battling Liverpool for the title if it's that simple
You just don't get it do you

I'll try and explain it a bit more clearly

From the first minute we sat back and gave Utd all the time on the ball they wanted (we should have been putting them under pressure or, at least, trying to.) They totally dominated the first 45 mins

The idea of my remarks re Lampard was to show he was not afraid to admit he picked the wrong formation/players and therefore changed early (and the final result was ?)

Do I expect us to play like Chelsea - no but, for example, it could be seen from very early on that Hendrick was having a mare of a game and should have been hooked at half time (and I have been a supporter of Hendrick in previous posts/topics). The same could have been said for Barnes who was ineffective for most of the game.

Now going to watch Liverpool v Wolves and will send my scouting report and suggestions to SD 8-)

In away games this season Man Utd have lost to WHU, Newcastle, Bournemouth and Watford and got a lucky draw at Sheff Utd. Are these teams any better than us - I don't think so but clearly their managers were able to effect a strategy to win

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Spijed » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:50 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:40 pm
In away games this season Man Utd have lost to WHU, Newcastle, Bournemouth and Watford and got a lucky draw at Sheff Utd. Are these teams any better than us - I don't think so but clearly their managers were able to effect a strategy to win
The weird thing is that whilst those teams, Sheff United apart, have been able to play well against the better teams they struggle dramatically when it comes to playing a team like us.

Norwich for example have got a very good win away at Everton yet seemed to panic against us.
Last edited by Spijed on Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

claretfern
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by claretfern » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:50 pm

yosserhughes wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:16 pm
As CT has said time after times Dyche has the final say on Transfers.
It will be the Chairman, surely?

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:02 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:40 pm
You just don't get it do you

I'll try and explain it a bit more clearly

From the first minute we sat back and gave Utd all the time on the ball they wanted (we should have been putting them under pressure or, at least, trying to.) They totally dominated the first 45 mins

The idea of my remarks re Lampard was to show he was not afraid to admit he picked the wrong formation/players and therefore changed early (and the final result was ?)

Do I expect us to play like Chelsea - no but, for example, it could be seen from very early on that Hendrick was having a mare of a game and should have been hooked at half time (and I have been a supporter of Hendrick in previous posts/topics). The same could have been said for Barnes who was ineffective for most of the game.

Now going to watch Liverpool v Wolves and will send my scouting report and suggestions to SD 8-)

In away games this season Man Utd have lost to WHU, Newcastle, Bournemouth and Watford and got a lucky draw at Sheff Utd. Are these teams any better than us - I don't think so but clearly their managers were able to effect a strategy to win
ok, out of respect I'll ask you exactly what you think Dyche should have done and what the effect of that would have been ?

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by ewanrob » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:04 pm

It's quite clear Sean has total control, the reason behind Vydra/Gibson not playing..these were clearly knee jerk buys. He was probably after another striker whom went elsewhere and he gazzumped Leeds..and the Mee issue...who knows if he was looking to go but Gibson must gave been brought in with that in mind. I've said it many a time, but we are run with a corner shop mentality.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by taio » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:11 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:04 pm
It's quite clear Sean has total control, the reason behind Vydra/Gibson not playing..these were clearly knee jerk buys. He was probably after another striker whom went elsewhere and he gazzumped Leeds..and the Mee issue...who knows if he was looking to go but Gibson must gave been brought in with that in mind. I've said it many a time, but we are run with a corner shop mentality.
Vydra has been a waste of money. However without the benefit of hindsight I still think Gibson was a good signing. He's been unfortunate because Tarkowski and Mee have remained fit and done so well. If we had not brought in a decent centre half Dyche would have been heavily criticised.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Corky » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:32 pm

claretfern wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:50 pm
It will be the Chairman, surely?
I would assume you are correct. And I think it is up to the Chairman and his Board to decide how to proceed. As I see it there are several options.

The Chairman has made it clear that the financial business model that the Club work to is to finish 17th. Anything above is a bonus. Nothing wrong with that. It is a very sound and prudent approach. However, that has now been the position for a few years and not surprisingly fans expectations have risen and the quality of football on offer is now seen by many to be somewhat industrial and lacking entertainment. Again nothing wrong with fans wanting more but they do not necessarily have the financial well being of the Club at their forefront. The question is how do you bring those two conflicting areas together.

Most on here who think they know at least as much as the professionals think we need to strengthen the team; that costs money which hitherto the Chairman appears reluctant to spend because we have been finishing above 17th. So why should he.

In my business experience I have found that businesses that have a good few years and as a consequence sit back and rest on their laurels find that their competitors leave them behind and they lose orders. In our case that could mean flirting with relegation. This is the danger. However the Premier League sweeten the pot by giving those relegated a bit of cash for a few years to help them acclimatise to being in the Championship. The trick then is to get promoted PDQ.

Or the Chairman could look realistically at the huge list of players that the Manager wants to bring into Burnley and see if he can find it in his financial business model to loosen the purse strings somewhat and justify the increased expenditure, buy a few players no doubt a midfielder will be amongst them, the cost of which will to some extent at least be offset by a rise in league position.

It is incredibly difficult for the Chairman to know what course is best to take because one could lead to relegation whilst the other could also do likewise whilst putting the long term financial future of the Club at risk.

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure!!!!

Hipper
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Hipper » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:44 pm

taio wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:11 pm
Vydra has been a waste of money. However without the benefit of hindsight I still think Gibson was a good signing. He's been unfortunate because Tarkowski and Mee have remained fit and done so well. If we had not brought in a decent centre half Dyche would have been heavily criticised.
He was criticised on here in the 2017-18 season when we only had Long as a substitute after Keane was sold. Dyche can't win it seems.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by icu81b4 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:16 pm

My view is that if you have a team of players that you don't consider good enough then like every other sport or skill set you need to practice practice practice, so for me the training regime isn't working the team hard enough or the players themselves aren't training hard enough. We expect to be entertained for our money and if the team is working at it's peak then we will be.

It's a game of football at the end of the day, it's not really a hard days work and they get paid handsomely for it, so come on lads.... Put some effort in, and let's all reap the benefits.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Damo » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:17 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm
We literally have a budget twice as big as most Championship teams. We could out spend Leeds.
Yes we could. I remember Bolton thinking the same thing

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:26 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm
We literally have a budget twice as big as most Championship teams. We could out spend Leeds.
We could outspend them for a season or two but it would be a one off spend, then we'd be broke with a wage bill as big as our TV money incoming. End of the day the team with the owner worth half a billion dollars has the biggest budget and that's not us.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Brisliam » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:27 pm

Having the ability to string together some passes and give service to the forwards that doesn't just involve hoofing from the back isn't fancy, its the entire premise of football.

No one is saying we should abandon being the defensive side we are as its a strength. Not being able to score very often from open play is going to end in tears for all.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by paulatky » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:42 pm

Those suggesting a change of manager,who would you go for.
I am fully behind Dyche,but if we ever had to look for aa new manager then Steve Cooper of Swansea would be a good shout.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Row Z » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:50 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:47 pm
But what do we want? A bit more of what we showed in the second half.
Agreed - we pressed higher, moved the ball quicker, overlapping runs from full backs, winning corners and free kicks in attacking areas and generally took the game to the opposition. In previous years, we have done this from the first minute and teams are on the back foot immediately.

We do still need a midfielder to turn and pick a pass to hurt teams centrally, which I am sure is what Dyche thought Drinkwater could add but for whatever reason he cannot get on the pitch.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Sproggy » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:59 pm

How careful do I have to be?

Incoming players that are better than Peter Crouch?
A midfielder that is better than the two we have?
A recruitment and scouting team that can find a midfielder that is better than the two we have?
A first team right back that is under 30?
Someone up front with pace? Bag of cement optional.

And before anyone points it out, I do understand that nobody in world football who could improve our starting eleven wants to play for 50k a week in the Premier League for Burnley.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by alboclaret » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:14 pm

Brisliam wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:27 pm
Having the ability to string together some passes and give service to the forwards that doesn't just involve hoofing from the back isn't fancy, its the entire premise of football.

No one is saying we should abandon being the defensive side we are as its a strength. Not being able to score very often from open play is going to end in tears for all.

This...

The is alot of ground between the turd being served up currently by burnley and the "fancy stuff" some posters say people are asking for....
I dont think anyone is asking for fancy football at all

We have shown we can play it on the floor, albeit in very small parts of a few games, and get results doing so. I'm happy to be defensive and direct but by direct I mean forwards, move the ball forwards quickly enough to hurt the opponent. That's not fancy.
Whilst out yesterday afternoon in pubs we all seemed to agree on the fact that whatever the result we be happy if we get about the from the start and make it uncomfortable. If that means playing 3 in the middle of pitch so we dont get over run then so be it.
For a few yrs now we seem to be able to only play 1 half of the game as is required sometimes.
It's a rough watch at the moment but it's been like that for yrs. When we were winning people were saying it's fine when we are winning but it will be shite to watch when/if we start losing doing it.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Stayingup » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:27 pm

The gaps between the mega rich clubs, the rich clubs and the not so rich (us for example) is widening and its showing on the pitch in general. If Burnley wish to maintain to compete in this league they must (try to) attract outside investment.
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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:31 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:05 pm
aye..............Lampard was able to put on Brazilian international Jorginhio who cost 57 million and earns just short of 6 million per season

What options of this calibre does Dyche have ?

Surprised you aren't asking why we aren't battling Liverpool for the title if it's that simple
It’s comparative, we have players who can affect the game from the bench.

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Re: Be careful what we wish for.

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:32 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:27 pm
The gaps between the mega rich clubs, the rich clubs and the not so rich (us for example) is widening and its showing on the pitch in general. If Burnley wish to maintain to compete in this league they must (try to) attract outside investment.
We really do need that investment, but Garlick and Co. have early the right to ride this train as far as they want to go.

I hope it’s to the summer, and then we can see an investment come along and Dyche given the financial backing he wants. Otherwise he’s off.

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