Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope -7
Bardsley -6. Was left too exposed vs Williams but stuck at it.
Tarkowski -8
Mee -7
Taylor - 6. Bad (and rare mistake) but he is one of our viable alternatives to hoofball
McNeil- 7. Never utilised in the 1st half and that’s down to tactics.
Cork - 5
Westwood - 5
Hendrick - 4 - treats the ball like a grenade with the pin taken out. I still don’t know his best position.
Wood -5 - very hard to judge the strikers when all they have is lumps up from the back
Barnes - 5 - as above
JBG - 7 - must start on the right if fit. Keyword - “If”
JRod-7. Looked lively
I’ve been reading about how we “had a go” 2nd half. Yes we did, against a fragile United team who have forgotten how to keep clean sheets. The bigger problem tho was the first half.
That first half is starting to become our identity. Limit. Contain. Disrupt. There is little appetite to retain possession - just bang it forward ASAP and hope. We’re better than this but the ease with which we turn the ball over is frightening.
If we are not going to utilise the wingers and just launch it then we have to stop playing 4-4-2 as we just chase the ball.
The one good thing about this poor run of displays is the timing- am hoping it forces Garlick/Rigg into overdue action.
Bardsley -6. Was left too exposed vs Williams but stuck at it.
Tarkowski -8
Mee -7
Taylor - 6. Bad (and rare mistake) but he is one of our viable alternatives to hoofball
McNeil- 7. Never utilised in the 1st half and that’s down to tactics.
Cork - 5
Westwood - 5
Hendrick - 4 - treats the ball like a grenade with the pin taken out. I still don’t know his best position.
Wood -5 - very hard to judge the strikers when all they have is lumps up from the back
Barnes - 5 - as above
JBG - 7 - must start on the right if fit. Keyword - “If”
JRod-7. Looked lively
I’ve been reading about how we “had a go” 2nd half. Yes we did, against a fragile United team who have forgotten how to keep clean sheets. The bigger problem tho was the first half.
That first half is starting to become our identity. Limit. Contain. Disrupt. There is little appetite to retain possession - just bang it forward ASAP and hope. We’re better than this but the ease with which we turn the ball over is frightening.
If we are not going to utilise the wingers and just launch it then we have to stop playing 4-4-2 as we just chase the ball.
The one good thing about this poor run of displays is the timing- am hoping it forces Garlick/Rigg into overdue action.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
A game of four quarters - the first being steady enough, the second a bit ropey and the final two being quite good.
Pope - 7 - in truth didnt have that much to do. Had he not just turned an ankle he might have done more to disrupt the opening goal, but that's not his fault and he did everything else steadily enough.
Bardsley - 6 - mostly scrambling and struggled a bit with the pace in the first half, but stuck to his task well. Unlucky not to score but his crossing was particularly poor, which made the overreaction when Hendrick shot from 30 yards all the sillier.
Taylor - 5 - almost laid an opening goal on a plate for Wood a few minutes in, but other that whilst he gave us an attacking outlet his delivery was a little disappointing. And of course the mistake for the opening goal was a costly one.
Tarkowski - 8 - very very good defensively all evening.
Mee - 8 - played his part in the morning goal by giving Taylor a difficult ball in the first place but otherwise very good.
Cork - 7 - very solid evening's work as the midfield screen, full of timely interventions, and unlucky not to score from Tarkowski's first half knock down.
Westwood - 7 - neat, tidy and busy, if not especially penetrating.
Hendrick - 6 - a couple of badly executed shots just before he came off, but generally steady enough in possession. Did his usual steady job out of possession although Williams gave him and Bardsley a tough 25 minutes in the first half down that side.
McNeil - 6 - not really in the game first half. Threatened to take the game by the scruff of the neck after the break when he came inside, but it never quite happened and by the end he cut a frustrated figure. Two very presentable chances to score that with hindsight he'd have expected to do better with.
Barnes - 5 - some reasonable hustle and bustle but thrashed at his only real sight of goal and we had a much better attacking platform once Rodriguez came on. Didnt do enough to support the midfield two either.
Wood - 5 - the ball didnt really stick with him and whilst he was awkward for the united centre backs at times, he didnt really threaten a goal.
Rodriguez- 7 - played as more of a number 10 than Barnes once the brief experiment with 433 ended and we looked better for it. Showed his quality in our build up play but like most of the team his final ball when he had the chance lacked. Did much more than Barnes to help the midfield.
JBG - tidy, busy and promising but without ever really producing any sort of end product.
Not too much wrong with this for me. I've seen a bit written about our first half performance, but for my money that is unduly influenced by the memory of the last 20-odd minutes of the half when United gained control and pinned us back with wave after wave of attack, reducing us too often to hopefulx aimless clearances to an isolated front two who in turn were below their imposing best. But before that we started smartly, kept United at arms length by setting a decent tempo and created a couple of half chances- one when Taylor's break and chip to the back post was cut out by the faintest defensive touch, and again when Cork was inches away from converting Tarkowski's knock down on the stretch. Further half chances for Barnes on the break and McNeil at the back post demonstrate that this was far from completely one way traffic.
And for all we were under the cosh and had some last ditch defending to do United didnt particularly force a save from Pope and had to wait for a poor defensive error - even then i suspect there was an element of fortune about the goal because the original error looked to be partly a result of a reluctance to go back to keeper whilst Pope was recovering from an ankle knock and that same knock reduced Pope's ability intervene.
The second half in any event was much better - playing into the wind we were able to hold the ball up and compete much better for second balls. The midfield 4 played narrower and compressed the space in the midfield and whilst that created an increased risk on the counter attack (which understandably Dyche wouldn't have entertained at 0-0) it allowed us to dictate longer periods of the game. If there's a criticism of the second half though it was the lack of end product - too many promising positions ended in a wasteful cross or shot and as a result we didnt work De Gea enough for the pressure we had.
But this is Man Utd. For all they're an inconsistent team they still have lots of quality and you need the ball to bounce your way in order to beat them. There really wasn't much to choose between this performance and say, Spurs at home last season when we won. 48 hours on from a tough away game at Everton and with at least 2 players (Barnes and Wood) managing niggling injuries, this was a respectable competitive effort.
Pope - 7 - in truth didnt have that much to do. Had he not just turned an ankle he might have done more to disrupt the opening goal, but that's not his fault and he did everything else steadily enough.
Bardsley - 6 - mostly scrambling and struggled a bit with the pace in the first half, but stuck to his task well. Unlucky not to score but his crossing was particularly poor, which made the overreaction when Hendrick shot from 30 yards all the sillier.
Taylor - 5 - almost laid an opening goal on a plate for Wood a few minutes in, but other that whilst he gave us an attacking outlet his delivery was a little disappointing. And of course the mistake for the opening goal was a costly one.
Tarkowski - 8 - very very good defensively all evening.
Mee - 8 - played his part in the morning goal by giving Taylor a difficult ball in the first place but otherwise very good.
Cork - 7 - very solid evening's work as the midfield screen, full of timely interventions, and unlucky not to score from Tarkowski's first half knock down.
Westwood - 7 - neat, tidy and busy, if not especially penetrating.
Hendrick - 6 - a couple of badly executed shots just before he came off, but generally steady enough in possession. Did his usual steady job out of possession although Williams gave him and Bardsley a tough 25 minutes in the first half down that side.
McNeil - 6 - not really in the game first half. Threatened to take the game by the scruff of the neck after the break when he came inside, but it never quite happened and by the end he cut a frustrated figure. Two very presentable chances to score that with hindsight he'd have expected to do better with.
Barnes - 5 - some reasonable hustle and bustle but thrashed at his only real sight of goal and we had a much better attacking platform once Rodriguez came on. Didnt do enough to support the midfield two either.
Wood - 5 - the ball didnt really stick with him and whilst he was awkward for the united centre backs at times, he didnt really threaten a goal.
Rodriguez- 7 - played as more of a number 10 than Barnes once the brief experiment with 433 ended and we looked better for it. Showed his quality in our build up play but like most of the team his final ball when he had the chance lacked. Did much more than Barnes to help the midfield.
JBG - tidy, busy and promising but without ever really producing any sort of end product.
Not too much wrong with this for me. I've seen a bit written about our first half performance, but for my money that is unduly influenced by the memory of the last 20-odd minutes of the half when United gained control and pinned us back with wave after wave of attack, reducing us too often to hopefulx aimless clearances to an isolated front two who in turn were below their imposing best. But before that we started smartly, kept United at arms length by setting a decent tempo and created a couple of half chances- one when Taylor's break and chip to the back post was cut out by the faintest defensive touch, and again when Cork was inches away from converting Tarkowski's knock down on the stretch. Further half chances for Barnes on the break and McNeil at the back post demonstrate that this was far from completely one way traffic.
And for all we were under the cosh and had some last ditch defending to do United didnt particularly force a save from Pope and had to wait for a poor defensive error - even then i suspect there was an element of fortune about the goal because the original error looked to be partly a result of a reluctance to go back to keeper whilst Pope was recovering from an ankle knock and that same knock reduced Pope's ability intervene.
The second half in any event was much better - playing into the wind we were able to hold the ball up and compete much better for second balls. The midfield 4 played narrower and compressed the space in the midfield and whilst that created an increased risk on the counter attack (which understandably Dyche wouldn't have entertained at 0-0) it allowed us to dictate longer periods of the game. If there's a criticism of the second half though it was the lack of end product - too many promising positions ended in a wasteful cross or shot and as a result we didnt work De Gea enough for the pressure we had.
But this is Man Utd. For all they're an inconsistent team they still have lots of quality and you need the ball to bounce your way in order to beat them. There really wasn't much to choose between this performance and say, Spurs at home last season when we won. 48 hours on from a tough away game at Everton and with at least 2 players (Barnes and Wood) managing niggling injuries, this was a respectable competitive effort.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 6
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 6 one off for mistake.
Hendrick 5
Westwood 6
Cork 7
McNeil 6
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 6
Guðmundsson 6
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 6 one off for mistake.
Hendrick 5
Westwood 6
Cork 7
McNeil 6
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 6
Guðmundsson 6
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Taylor 6
Mee 7
Tarkowski 8
Hendrick 6
Cork 7
Westwood 7
McNeil 6
Barnes 5
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
JBG 6
Bardsley 7
Taylor 6
Mee 7
Tarkowski 8
Hendrick 6
Cork 7
Westwood 7
McNeil 6
Barnes 5
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
JBG 6
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7 - solid
Taylor 7 - good apart from mistake
Mee 8 - good
Tarkowski - 9
Bardsley 8 - good game
McNeil 7 - good but drifted in and out.
Westwood 6 - not in the game as much as usual
Cork 5- his usual ponderous self
Hendrick 5 - woeful shooting today from him
Wood 7 - no service but caused some problems and had pi defo for pace and strength.
Barnes 6 - no service but battled
Jay rod 7 - good
JBG 6
Taylor 7 - good apart from mistake
Mee 8 - good
Tarkowski - 9
Bardsley 8 - good game
McNeil 7 - good but drifted in and out.
Westwood 6 - not in the game as much as usual
Cork 5- his usual ponderous self
Hendrick 5 - woeful shooting today from him
Wood 7 - no service but caused some problems and had pi defo for pace and strength.
Barnes 6 - no service but battled
Jay rod 7 - good
JBG 6
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 7
Hendrick 6
Westwood 7
Cork 7
McNeil 7
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 8
Guðmundsson 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 7
Hendrick 6
Westwood 7
Cork 7
McNeil 7
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 8
Guðmundsson 7
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Taylor 6
Tarkowski 8 (MOM)
Mee 7
Hendrick 5
Cork 6
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 7
Again, we made a mediocre United side look ordinary.
Bardsley 7
Taylor 6
Tarkowski 8 (MOM)
Mee 7
Hendrick 5
Cork 6
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 6
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 7
Again, we made a mediocre United side look ordinary.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Some low scores for Bardsley, I thought he was MOTM.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 5
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 5
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 7
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
First half very poor but at least we had a go in the 2nd half.
Pope 7-Not too much to do but glad he came through after injury fear early doors
Bardsley 7-One of our players that looked composed with the ball
Tarkowski 8* MOM says it all
Mee 7-Another steady game.
Taylor 6-Pity about the mistake that potentially cost us a point, otherwise felt he played well.
Hendrick 4-What can I say, the sooner he goes the better for me.
Westwood 5-Not his normal energetic self. I wonder if he's fully fit.
Cork 6-Tried hard but physically out-muscled on occasions.
McNeil 7-First half he was very poor but when he went inside in 2nd half I felt he was very effective and looked dangerous.
Barnes 5-Don't think he looked fully fit.
Wood 6-Looked a handful but was easily marshalled by United expensive CD's.
Rodriguez 7-Made a big difference but who wouldn't with who he replaced.
Gudmundson 6-Another good sub but he always comes inside, i'd like him the go on the outside more often.
Pope 7-Not too much to do but glad he came through after injury fear early doors
Bardsley 7-One of our players that looked composed with the ball
Tarkowski 8* MOM says it all
Mee 7-Another steady game.
Taylor 6-Pity about the mistake that potentially cost us a point, otherwise felt he played well.
Hendrick 4-What can I say, the sooner he goes the better for me.
Westwood 5-Not his normal energetic self. I wonder if he's fully fit.
Cork 6-Tried hard but physically out-muscled on occasions.
McNeil 7-First half he was very poor but when he went inside in 2nd half I felt he was very effective and looked dangerous.
Barnes 5-Don't think he looked fully fit.
Wood 6-Looked a handful but was easily marshalled by United expensive CD's.
Rodriguez 7-Made a big difference but who wouldn't with who he replaced.
Gudmundson 6-Another good sub but he always comes inside, i'd like him the go on the outside more often.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 7
Taylor 5
Hendrick 5
Cork 7
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 4
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 6
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 7
Taylor 5
Hendrick 5
Cork 7
Westwood 6
McNeil 7
Barnes 4
Wood 6
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsson 6
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
A standard utc players ratings thread. This is the best quote though, United do have quality (lots of highly paid international players) and they managed the game very well. Too many overlook the quality of the opposition we are playing against.claretspice wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:51 pm
But this is Man Utd. For all they're an inconsistent team they still have lots of quality
Other notes from the ratings and comments heard last night. Some players can do no wrong, others get dogs abuse and Hart was called a c u next Tuesday when he got stripped. It's very odd what's going on at the moment. I'm pleased it wasn't pieters who cost us the game last night.
When did we become a big club?
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pieters hasn’t made a mistake as bad as that this season and would be very unlikely to. It was beyond amateurish and some feel that is a premier league performance worthy of an 8 when you have cost your team the match
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Yep, and they do their home work on us now. Matic doesn't always get the gig for United these days, but he was a horses for courses selection last night - perfect man to screen in front of Barnes and Wood. When Man Utd are looking at how Crystal Palace have shut you down and are emulating it, you are in a very different place to when first promoted.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pieters has cost us numerous goals this season, both directly and indirectly.Hibsclaret wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:29 pmPieters hasn’t made a mistake as bad as that this season and would be very unlikely to. It was beyond amateurish and some feel that is a premier league performance worthy of an 8 when you have cost your team the match
That said when it comes to Taylor your objectivity is nowhere to be found.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 8
Tarkowski 8
Mee 7
Taylor 6
Hendrick 5
Westwood 5
Cork 7
McNeil 7
Wood 6
Barnes 5
JBG 6
Rodriguez 7
Bardsley 8
Tarkowski 8
Mee 7
Taylor 6
Hendrick 5
Westwood 5
Cork 7
McNeil 7
Wood 6
Barnes 5
JBG 6
Rodriguez 7
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Interesting point although I'd say Mouriniho used Matic in a similar role when they beat us 1-0 a few seasons back in a January at the Turf.claretspice wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:35 pmYep, and they do their home work on us now. Matic doesn't always get the gig for United these days, but he was a horses for courses selection last night - perfect man to screen in front of Barnes and Wood. When Man Utd are looking at how Crystal Palace have shut you down and are emulating it, you are in a very different place to when first promoted.
Point still stands about the quality that United have on offer compared to us. Some really are struggling to grasp it. We need a poor mans Matic.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
He had him rated before kick offClaretTony wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:42 pm4 for Brady generous? He came on in the 87th minute. Could you please explain how on earth you can rate him at all?
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Westwood 4
Cork 5
McNeil 7
Barnes 4
Wood 5
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 8
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Westwood 4
Cork 5
McNeil 7
Barnes 4
Wood 5
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Yeah - knowing for a fact that he would be used.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
NL Claret wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:52 pmInteresting point although I'd say Mouriniho used Matic in a similar role when they beat us 1-0 a few seasons back in a January at the Turf.
Point still stands about the quality that United have on offer compared to us. Some really are struggling to grasp it. We need a poor mans Matic.
Mourinho did do that yes - fair observation. I suppose my point was Ole specifically recalled him to do that job (he was a regular under Mourinho) and it was exactly the same set up Palace adopted against us right down the eleven, but especially in midfield.
I'd say we do have a poor man's Matic - precisely what Cork is for me, screens the back 4, wins headers, plays simple. But that in itself underscores your point about the gulf in quality.
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Cork doesn't have the physical attributes of Matic though. We can look so lightweight in midfield at times.claretspice wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:41 pmMourinho did do that yes - fair observation. I suppose my point was Ole specifically recalled him to do that job (he was a regular under Mourinho) and it was exactly the same set up Palace adopted against us right down the eleven, but especially in midfield.
I'd say we do have a poor man's Matic - precisely what Cork is for me, screens the back 4, wins headers, plays simple. But that in itself underscores your point about the gulf in quality.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Spot on.claretspice wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:51 pm
Taylor - 5 - almost laid an opening goal on a plate for Wood a few minutes in, but other that whilst he gave us an attacking outlet his delivery was a little disappointing. And of course the mistake for the opening goal was a costly one.
For all that Taylor is a favourite with many fans. He is ridiculously one-footed, and this often puts him in trouble, inevitably leading to costly errors from time to time.
And for all that he often looks good going forward his decision making and delivery are generally disappointing. Not sure how many assists he has in the games he's played, but it's not many.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Think it’s one although if you include yesterday that’d make it two....nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:53 pmSpot on.
For all that Taylor is a favourite with many fans. He is ridiculously one-footed, and this often puts him in trouble, inevitably leading to costly errors from time to time.
And for all that he often looks good going forward his decision making and delivery are generally disappointing. Not sure how many assists he has in the games he's played, but it's not many.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
I generally like Tayor although he has his weaknesses. That rating simply reflects the performance he produced yesterday though.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:53 pmSpot on.
For all that Taylor is a favourite with many fans. He is ridiculously one-footed, and this often puts him in trouble, inevitably leading to costly errors from time to time.
And for all that he often looks good going forward his decision making and delivery are generally disappointing. Not sure how many assists he has in the games he's played, but it's not many.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Have watched Watford, WHU and Bournemouth attack United from the get go and beat them, don't know why we didn't try that. I have rated on the basis that nobody outside the back 5 could score more than 4 or 5 at most in the first half.
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 5
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsso 6
Pope 7
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 5
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
Gudmundsso 6
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 8
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 7
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 6
JayRod 6
JBG 6
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 7
McNeil 7
Barnes 5
Wood 6
JayRod 6
JBG 6
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 8
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 5
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 6
Barnes 4
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
JBG 6
I know some of us have the opinion that the first half started OK but I thought we were appalling throughout it, and the stats back that up. Seven Utd shots before our first, terrible possession from about the 10th minute, standing off them, lumping balls forward. It was rank. The defending (bar Taylor) was the exception, Bardsley struggled to handle Rashford and the young kid given he had no help from Hendrick, but his clearance off the line was superb.
Second half I enjoyed far more. We “out shot” Utd, had equal territory over the match, bullied them more, had them worried. Jay and JBG made a huge difference. Both played with a far higher tempo than the guys they replaced.
But, we are getting a reputation of needing to be treated with caution, so the “big six” don’t mess about. United left out all their kids apart from the left back (who we finally got on top of second half), and they normally play a big hitter in front of the back four against us, and did again with Matic. It is no shame losing to that, even if the first half was still shameful in many regards.
It is important we don’t panic. If you count a big spending post-Ancelotti Everton as one of the mega teams we would expect to beat us, we have only played Bournemouth and Newcastle recently out of other sides and have beaten them both. We aren’t playing well creatively, and are far too predictable, but we are still a good side.
Bardsley 7
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 5
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 6
Barnes 4
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
JBG 6
I know some of us have the opinion that the first half started OK but I thought we were appalling throughout it, and the stats back that up. Seven Utd shots before our first, terrible possession from about the 10th minute, standing off them, lumping balls forward. It was rank. The defending (bar Taylor) was the exception, Bardsley struggled to handle Rashford and the young kid given he had no help from Hendrick, but his clearance off the line was superb.
Second half I enjoyed far more. We “out shot” Utd, had equal territory over the match, bullied them more, had them worried. Jay and JBG made a huge difference. Both played with a far higher tempo than the guys they replaced.
But, we are getting a reputation of needing to be treated with caution, so the “big six” don’t mess about. United left out all their kids apart from the left back (who we finally got on top of second half), and they normally play a big hitter in front of the back four against us, and did again with Matic. It is no shame losing to that, even if the first half was still shameful in many regards.
It is important we don’t panic. If you count a big spending post-Ancelotti Everton as one of the mega teams we would expect to beat us, we have only played Bournemouth and Newcastle recently out of other sides and have beaten them both. We aren’t playing well creatively, and are far too predictable, but we are still a good side.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 6
Bardsley 6
Tarkowski 9
Mee 7
Taylor 5
McNeil 6
Cork 5
Westwood 5
Hendrick 5
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 6. Showed loads of desire, passion but little quality
Brady 4. Poor
JBG 5
Struggle against the better sides we don't have the quality or drive in midfield to complete
.
Bardsley 6
Tarkowski 9
Mee 7
Taylor 5
McNeil 6
Cork 5
Westwood 5
Hendrick 5
Barnes 5
Wood 5
Rodriguez 6. Showed loads of desire, passion but little quality
Brady 4. Poor
JBG 5
Struggle against the better sides we don't have the quality or drive in midfield to complete
.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 7 - a couple of very decent stops
Bardsley 8 - stuck to the task
Taylor 7 - thought he did well, mistake aside
Mee 8
Tarkowski 8
Hendrick 3 - wow
Cork 7
Westwood 7
McNeil 6 - 4 first half, 8 second half
Barnes 4
Wood 4
Rodriguez 7
JBG 7
Bardsley 8 - stuck to the task
Taylor 7 - thought he did well, mistake aside
Mee 8
Tarkowski 8
Hendrick 3 - wow
Cork 7
Westwood 7
McNeil 6 - 4 first half, 8 second half
Barnes 4
Wood 4
Rodriguez 7
JBG 7
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
“Beyond amateurish” - ridiculous comment.Hibsclaret wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:29 pmPieters hasn’t made a mistake as bad as that this season and would be very unlikely to. It was beyond amateurish and some feel that is a premier league performance worthy of an 8 when you have cost your team the match
He made a bad mistake - but before that he had actually had a really good half (one of the few in the team). There were 2 or 3 occasions prior to that mistake where the easiest thing was to boot it out of play or launch it and he skilfully played a pass / chip to our midfield or McNeil - they were all risky but he was appreciated with applause by the fans for trying to play some football. You can hear the groans round the stadium when we launch it long so it’s not easy for our players to win over some fans at the moment whatever they do.
I think one person has given him a rating of 8 - his average rating will be nearer to 5 or 6 so most people have docked him a point for the mistake. Other than that personally I thought he had a really good game - Tarks and Mee have directly cost us far more goals this season than Taylor.
We are a better team when Taylor plays - he is a better player than Pieters in almost every aspect of the game and McNeil plays better when Taylor plays. I wouldn’t like to think what James would have done to Pieters on Saturday but Taylor played him very well.
Statistics about his assists in isolation are distorting his contribution to the game - he gets us up the field and his runs have won many corners that have led to goals. Pieters is incapable of doing those runs and so are Bardsley and Lowton on the other side. Pieters may have assisted a couple of goals earlier in the season but he is launching in the cross from the half way line.
It’s almost like you have been waiting a year for this to happen Hibs. It’s a shame he has been consistently very good for us in between !!
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Well, I at least actually did put some up.1fatclaret wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:54 pmWith such observational powers, maybe your other scores should be discounted too?
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
It was amateurish imo. I stick by that. He cost us the game unfortunately. I rated him 5 and I was merely pointing out that a mistake that costs a game does not warrant an 8. He can do no wrong in some eyes but you have to take a hit when you cost your team a game. I have constantly rated him 7s and 8s since he’s been back in the team. There is no doubt that if Pieters makes a mistake like that he gets strung up from the culvert.
You can argue all day about who’s the better left back but imo there is not much between them. Taylor is much quicker, Pieters has far better delivery into the box. Pieters is the better defender but Taylor gets us up the pitch quicker.
I really couldn’t care less who plays as long as they are good enough but if people keep banging on about Taylor as if he is Maldini even when he does what he did on Saturday I can comment on it.
I also don’t get the we are a better team when Taylor plays given our performance first half at Arsenal and the majority of the Wolves game were as good as anything this season. Beating West Ham is not exactly a measure of this as they are as bad as anything you see in the league.
I’ve also seen numerous comments about how McNeil plays better with Taylor, well he gave Everton the goal at Everton when with Taylor and we had no shots on target all game. He also created nothing at Bournemouth with Taylor playing.
You can argue all day about who’s the better left back but imo there is not much between them. Taylor is much quicker, Pieters has far better delivery into the box. Pieters is the better defender but Taylor gets us up the pitch quicker.
I really couldn’t care less who plays as long as they are good enough but if people keep banging on about Taylor as if he is Maldini even when he does what he did on Saturday I can comment on it.
I also don’t get the we are a better team when Taylor plays given our performance first half at Arsenal and the majority of the Wolves game were as good as anything this season. Beating West Ham is not exactly a measure of this as they are as bad as anything you see in the league.
I’ve also seen numerous comments about how McNeil plays better with Taylor, well he gave Everton the goal at Everton when with Taylor and we had no shots on target all game. He also created nothing at Bournemouth with Taylor playing.
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Hibs stop embarrassing yourself.
Nobody talks about him like he is Maldini.
You got proven completely wrong in the way he has played over the last 12 months.
To dig him out and call one mistake “less than amateurish” just shows you up - did you do that for the goals Tarks and Mee have given away...or Lowton, McNeil etc.
Having a different opinion on a player is fine of course but your history on Taylor is not the best and this just feels petty. One person gave him an 8 as far as I can see - why is that opinion any less valid than you tearing into him for months saying he was not good enough ?
Nobody talks about him like he is Maldini.
You got proven completely wrong in the way he has played over the last 12 months.
To dig him out and call one mistake “less than amateurish” just shows you up - did you do that for the goals Tarks and Mee have given away...or Lowton, McNeil etc.
Having a different opinion on a player is fine of course but your history on Taylor is not the best and this just feels petty. One person gave him an 8 as far as I can see - why is that opinion any less valid than you tearing into him for months saying he was not good enough ?
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
There’s no point arguing on here.
There’s people on here blaming Mee for passing him the ball.
Some players cannot be criticised. The last time I criticised Taylor was about 12 months ago. He deserved criticising against Man U and I did this because of the marks of 8 and the ridiculous blaming of Mee passing him the ball. 5s or 6s are fine for a performance where you have cost the team, which he did.
I think you’ll find you are embarrassing yourself given that we are basically agreeing that he was below average in the game. You’re also embarrassing by mentioning historical stuff that I never mentioned and hypothetically slagging off Pieters when he didn’t even play. I have openly admitted on here that Taylor has improved but he gave Man U the points.
I actually have been proven right in some way as I have always lauded Dyche’s ability to improve players. He has improved pretty much every player we have. However, did I think Taylor was not good enough, yes. Do I think he’s good enough now, yes. It’s a bit of a shame you can’t post an opinion without it being rammed down your throat forever even when your opinion has changed.
There’s people on here blaming Mee for passing him the ball.
Some players cannot be criticised. The last time I criticised Taylor was about 12 months ago. He deserved criticising against Man U and I did this because of the marks of 8 and the ridiculous blaming of Mee passing him the ball. 5s or 6s are fine for a performance where you have cost the team, which he did.
I think you’ll find you are embarrassing yourself given that we are basically agreeing that he was below average in the game. You’re also embarrassing by mentioning historical stuff that I never mentioned and hypothetically slagging off Pieters when he didn’t even play. I have openly admitted on here that Taylor has improved but he gave Man U the points.
I actually have been proven right in some way as I have always lauded Dyche’s ability to improve players. He has improved pretty much every player we have. However, did I think Taylor was not good enough, yes. Do I think he’s good enough now, yes. It’s a bit of a shame you can’t post an opinion without it being rammed down your throat forever even when your opinion has changed.
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Tbf, I agree with Hibs, it was awful & undid all the good work he had done.
I can't for the life of me figure out why he can't work on his right foot - just to be able to come onto it and pass infield with his right would alleviate a whole lot of problems. It's actually a bit embarrassing that a full time premier league footy player can't use his 'weaker' foot like, at all.
I can't for the life of me figure out why he can't work on his right foot - just to be able to come onto it and pass infield with his right would alleviate a whole lot of problems. It's actually a bit embarrassing that a full time premier league footy player can't use his 'weaker' foot like, at all.
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
There's no point arguing , it will never change. Some players are bomb proof, a poor shot / pass will be met with a oh hard luck, good effort. Some players have pinged a 60 yard balls that have bounced off the Bob Lord wall and got a round of applause, others get called a efin useless dick for doing the same.
The reaction of some around me when Hendrick had a shot was embarrassing. Some take an instant dislike to players depending on where they were signed from or something that was written on the players previous clubs messageboard. No matter what that player does during his Burnley career that view point will never alter. It's weird.
The reaction of some around me when Hendrick had a shot was embarrassing. Some take an instant dislike to players depending on where they were signed from or something that was written on the players previous clubs messageboard. No matter what that player does during his Burnley career that view point will never alter. It's weird.
These 2 users liked this post: Hibsclaret Ashingtonclaret46
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
You’ve lost the plot now - “hypothetically slagging off Pieters when he didn’t even play”....that’s nearly as funny as “less than amateurish”.
We aren’t agreeing - I never said he was less than average. I said I thought he had a very good game and made one mistake....and it was not the best of balls from Mee.
As I said score him low if that’s your opinion but it was no “less than amateurish” than Mee passing the ball to Firmino in the Liverpool game and gifting a goal or Tarks mistakes in giving the ball away in his own half and costing us a couple of goals this season....and I am pretty sure you did not use similar criticism after those games.
We aren’t agreeing - I never said he was less than average. I said I thought he had a very good game and made one mistake....and it was not the best of balls from Mee.
As I said score him low if that’s your opinion but it was no “less than amateurish” than Mee passing the ball to Firmino in the Liverpool game and gifting a goal or Tarks mistakes in giving the ball away in his own half and costing us a couple of goals this season....and I am pretty sure you did not use similar criticism after those games.
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Pope 8
Bardsley 6
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 4
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 6
Barnes 4
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
JBG 7
Bardsley 6
Tarkowski 9
Mee 8
Taylor 4
Hendrick 4
Cork 5
Westwood 6
McNeil 6
Barnes 4
Wood 5
Rodriguez 7
JBG 7
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Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
So on a ratings thread you haven’t posted ratings and yet you are happy to hypothesise how Pieters would have been ripped a new one when he didn’t play. Well done....
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
Again what a drama queen you are.Hibsclaret wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:43 pmSo on a ratings thread you haven’t posted ratings and yet you are happy to hypothesise how Pieters would have been ripped a new one when he didn’t play. Well done....
Who said he would have been “ripped a new one” ?
I said it would have been interesting to see how he coped with James’ pace....the point being that Taylor coped very well with James when he has given many full backs in this league a torrid time this season. It was evidence to support my opinion that Taylor had a good game and he made one single but I agree costly mistake.
You decide to describe that one mistake as worse than amateurish despite the fact that all our defenders have made at least one similar mistake this year - and in the case of Mee and Tarks more than one.
Re: Burnley v Manchester United - Player Ratings
I like reading the players ratings threads, some really funny thoughts come out
Love the "we only play hoof ball and the can't pass" Yet Taylor makes a mistake and so many revert to he should have hoofed the ball out.
Think the most sensible comment was around the opposition, Man U front line is a threat to any defense, I personally feel we have a good defense, certainly a top half team defense but all of them are prone to the odd error over a game. Agree and think 99% do, we are short of pace in midfield & forwards, plus passing accuracy should be much better, Pope kicking the ball is not good at all but he is an excellent GK. Everyone can be criticized but we are who we are and do well for the most part, we could have been West Ham and many others with similar problems, spent loads, plenty of pace and yet just above the relegation zone and knee jerk reaction to managerial change.
Love the "we only play hoof ball and the can't pass" Yet Taylor makes a mistake and so many revert to he should have hoofed the ball out.
Think the most sensible comment was around the opposition, Man U front line is a threat to any defense, I personally feel we have a good defense, certainly a top half team defense but all of them are prone to the odd error over a game. Agree and think 99% do, we are short of pace in midfield & forwards, plus passing accuracy should be much better, Pope kicking the ball is not good at all but he is an excellent GK. Everyone can be criticized but we are who we are and do well for the most part, we could have been West Ham and many others with similar problems, spent loads, plenty of pace and yet just above the relegation zone and knee jerk reaction to managerial change.