VAR again

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thatdberight
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Re: VAR again

Post by thatdberight » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:03 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:00 pm
It's becoming a joke now,even the MOTD pundits are fed up discussing VAR decisions,rather than the fare on the pitch.

What happened to giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt,none of the "offsides" this week were clear on the initial replay,it's only when they freezeframe the incidents and slow them down,that you might find a toenail or thumbnail offside,and even that's debatable.
There is, in their view, no doubt. So no doubt to give.

Damo
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Re: VAR again

Post by Damo » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:09 pm

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THEWELLERNUT70
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Re: VAR again

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:22 pm

Wait for the two goals in the Citeh v Sheff Utd (I'm watching on BeIn).

Laughable or bent?

yTib
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Re: VAR again

Post by yTib » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:25 pm

there certainly seems to be a growing consensus that the system is creating more problems than it is solving.

the governance of football has been woeful for years.

taio
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Re: VAR again

Post by taio » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:53 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:16 pm
Offsides do not come under the banner of clear and obvious error ---you are deemed to be onside or offside by the technology available.
The shoulder ball is seen as a clear and obvious error, however, had it happened in the Championship or any other English League, the decision would have been accepted, rightly or wrongly and the game would have continued. The offside goal farce would not have happened because the AR did not think there was an offside.

All that VAR is doing is undermining the onfield officials who, in the grand scale of things make very few errors in the eyes of the unbiased observer, but who are now being overruled by someone who is not even anywhere near the game.
It is also not doing a thing to stop players falling over at just the slightest touch and, sad to say, things will only get worse.
I know. As I said above my view is clear and obvious should apply to offsides for the reasons given. The general secretary of the IFAB agrees:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... li=BBoPWjP

Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: VAR again

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:59 pm

taio wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:53 pm
I know. As I said above my view is clear and obvious should apply to offsides for the reasons given. The general secretary of the IFAB agrees:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/footbal ... li=BBoPWjP
They make the Laws, however, he has come out with this now. not just because of what is happeninig in the PL but because there is confusion in many different places across the world with the VAR use as applied to offside.
THey have a meeting in February and will discuss TLOG again and what they can introduce to confuse the issue even more and they will probably make some modification to the offside law just to accommodate the use of VAR resulting in more confusion for those outside the football elite who do not have VAR.
Meanwhile we only have another 18 fixtures to try to sort out the mess that is VAR. Wonderful!

aggi
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Re: VAR again

Post by aggi » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:05 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:56 pm
Clear and obvious doesn't apply to offsides
The general secretary of the IFAB says that clear and obvious should be applied to offsides and that the premier league is being way too strict.

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Re: VAR again

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:54 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:59 pm
They make the Laws, however, he has come out with this now. not just because of what is happeninig in the PL but because there is confusion in many different places across the world with the VAR use as applied to offside.
THey have a meeting in February and will discuss TLOG again and what they can introduce to confuse the issue even more and they will probably make some modification to the offside law just to accommodate the use of VAR resulting in more confusion for those outside the football elite who do not have VAR.
Meanwhile we only have another 18 fixtures to try to sort out the mess that is VAR. Wonderful!
Cricket manages very well with video technology only being available in top matches, umpires call doesn't seem to effect village cricket, or league cricket so why would football?

beddie
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Re: VAR again

Post by beddie » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:37 am

Ashington. I'll take that as a no then? I imagine the referees are in favour of VAR as it takes the majority of responsibility away from them.

Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: VAR again

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:14 am

beddie wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:37 am
Ashington. I'll take that as a no then? I imagine the referees are in favour of VAR as it takes the majority of responsibility away from them.
Sorry beddie, I missed your question further up the thread!
A definite no from me and have said so since when it was first introduced, having foreseen many of hte problems which are occurring every week.
All they have done is introduce two more opinions as to what may or may not have happened in some incidents. What they are saying to an onfield official is that they are good enough to control a game of football, however, they are not good enough to decide on one or two decisions affecting that game!

In other words, they can make hundreds of decisions between them in the game, however, we will let somebody sitting miles away in front of a screen decide whether or not a few decisions are correct or otherwise. All this is doing is undermining the onfield officials.

It doesn't matter whether the referees are in favour or not, they are employed by the PGMOL and are told what to do, so they do it or lose their job.
The problem is that, should they kick up a fuss and lose their job, there are major shortages at lower levels.

Graham Potter said it exactly as I feel in his recent interview and, as FIFA are experimenting with the use of technology to replace ARs, he may not be far from the truth,even though it does sound ridiculous.

It used to take 3 officials to run a game at the top level ---it now takes 6!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... d-21188368

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Re: VAR again

Post by beddie » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:43 am

Ashington. Thanks for that it makes interesting reading. I wasn't sure whether you still referee or maybe you have retired. Just out of interest do you know many PL & Championship referees in your part of the world. We have a family friend from around the North East who's a Championship referee with an ocassional 4th in the Prem.
Last edited by beddie on Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thatdberight
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Re: VAR again

Post by thatdberight » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:51 am

It's testimony to just how bad this farce is that even Burnley fans are, by and large, fed up with it. The Times today shows that we are the only team whose points, position and goal difference would be unaffected by VAR this season (they have obviously made some assumptions, the questionable one being that they've ignored penalties that could have been scored but for VAR overturning the penalty).

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Re: VAR again

Post by RammyClaret61 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:54 am

The VAR door has been opened. Those who have invested in it are not going to go away quietly and admit its killing the game. It’s frightening where it could lead. Football in empty stadiums with CGI crowds? Who knows, it’s getting ridiculously stupid now.

thatdberight
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Re: VAR again

Post by thatdberight » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:58 am

RammyClaret61 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:54 am
Football in empty stadiums with CGI crowds? Who knows, it’s getting ridiculously stupid now.
You don't think that's coming anyway?

dsr
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Re: VAR again

Post by dsr » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:08 pm

beddie wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:37 am
Ashington. I'll take that as a no then? I imagine the referees are in favour of VAR as it takes the majority of responsibility away from them.
Rumour has it that Atkinson was cross earlier this season because a decision of his was overturned by a more junior ref on VAR, and when Atkinson watched it after the match he felt he was right anyway. Though that comes from fourth hand so I can't vouch for it.

I would expect refs want to be in charge, though. Just like managers, if you're supposed to be the boss you want to actually be the boss.

RammyClaret61
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Re: VAR again

Post by RammyClaret61 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:47 pm

thatdberight wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:58 am
You don't think that's coming anyway?
I do think it will come. Hopefully not for a very long time.

Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: VAR again

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:16 pm

beddie wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:43 am
Ashington. Thanks for that it makes interesting reading. I wasn't sure whether you still referee or maybe you have retired. Just out of interest do you know many PL & Championship referees in your part of the world. We have a family friend from around the North East who's a Championship referee with an ocassional 4th in the Prem.
beddie ---I am now 73 years old and as much as the mind is willing the knees would not get me around a football field quick enough even for 8 year olds!
I officiated in the Pyramid system, before it was known as that, however, apart from local leagues and mentoring young referees, I have not refereed at a higher level since the millennium, having been involved in running local leagues etc.

I used to know 2 PL referees, however, only 1 is still refereeing in the PL, the other having moved to warmer climates. In the Championship and EFL in general I used to know 4 referees, however, they no longer referee because injuries put paid to their participation.
My guess about your family friend would be Tony Harrington, however, I don't expect you to confirm or deny!

They all do a thankless task and I really don't think that VAR is helping them, however, I am old school and am willing to accept that I am wrong.

I notice that someone has mentioned Martin Atkinson in this thread. I was at a referees' dinner in Northumberland a few weeks ago and Martin was the guest speaker and was very interesting, however, he was also very guarded about anything which may or may not be contraversial. I am not surprised because there is always somebody who would run to the media with a tale about what he said -----and he knows it because he told us so!

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Re: VAR again

Post by Pstotto » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:31 pm

The point of VAR is not to make the game more fair, but to advertise corruption as acceptable in life.

beddie
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Re: VAR again

Post by beddie » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:00 pm

Ashington. Thanks for the info. I could tell from your previous posts you knew your stuff. Your knees definitely deserve a rest after the numerous years running round the pitch. In regards to the name mentioned of the family friend, would you kindly let me have the six numbers for Saturday's lottery. ;) incidentally he's 4th tomorrow for us.
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morpheus2
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Re: VAR again

Post by morpheus2 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:26 pm

I just watched a Man City goal vs Fulham which was clearly offside, it went to VAR and it was somehow declared onside :o :shock: :?

Has there been a change to the offside rule since we last played or is there some othe rational explanation?

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Re: VAR again

Post by fidelcastro » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:15 pm

morpheus2 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:26 pm
I just watched a Man City goal vs Fulham which was clearly offside, it went to VAR and it was somehow declared onside :o :shock: :?

Has there been a change to the offside rule since we last played or is there some othe rational explanation?
It depends who's playing.

Dark Cloud
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Re: VAR again

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:42 pm

The issue imo really is that in cricket and tennis for example (there may be others) the decisions under review are actually being decided by technology. The result is "announced" by a person, but he hasn't made the decision and what the technology is telling him about that decision is up there for us all to see. Hence almost no controversy. That's also why we have absolutely no issues with the goal line decisions in footy and since that particular bit of kit was introduced it's worked really well. It's not about interpretations or opinions. Technology says and shows that it either is or it isn't. Where VAR is hopelessly flawed is that you've simply brought another pair of eyes in to look at an incident and unsurprisingly that often brings yet another opinion to bear on said incident. There is no "ball tracking" or "hot spot" or whatever to look at. It's so often simply down to interpretation and everyone sees things differently. Hence it's solved nowt and created huge frustration among real fans, especially those who pay to go to games.
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Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: VAR again

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:04 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:42 pm
The issue imo really is that in cricket and tennis for example (there may be others) the decisions under review are actually being decided by technology. The result is "announced" by a person, but he hasn't made the decision and what the technology is telling him about that decision is up there for us all to see. Hence almost no controversy. That's also why we have absolutely no issues with the goal line decisions in footy and since that particular bit of kit was introduced it's worked really well. It's not about interpretations or opinions. Technology says and shows that it either is or it isn't. Where VAR is hopelessly flawed is that you've simply brought another pair of eyes in to look at an incident and unsurprisingly that often brings yet another opinion to bear on said incident. There is no "ball tracking" or "hot spot" or whatever to look at. It's so often simply down to interpretation and everyone sees things differently. Hence it's solved nowt and created huge frustration among real fans, especially those who pay to go to games.
In the PL there are two more pairs of eyes with the VAR and the Assistant VAR being involved ---good isn't it?

RammyClaret61
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Re: VAR again

Post by RammyClaret61 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:15 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:04 pm
In the PL there are two more pairs of eyes with the VAR and the Assistant VAR being involved ---good isn't it?
Decisions by committee.

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Re: VAR again

Post by Petersa » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:50 am

As they say, a giraffe is an elephant designed by committee
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yorkyclaret
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Re: VAR again

Post by yorkyclaret » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:12 am

First win at Old Trafford since 1962, first time VAR used, no blatant biased refereeing, coincidence?
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