Burnley's high press

[claretcarrot93]

What ever happened to it?

We used to be great at pressing teams high up all moving up the pitch together and getting at them. Outrunning every opponent each match.

Now we get all 11 behind the ball as quickly as possible then when we win it back we are so deep we cant do anything with it.

Hard to watch as well. Watching the team press high up the pitch was a good watch. Need to get back to that.

[Bfcboyo]

The Blackburn evening telegraph definitely sports the more off their head journalist's. If you could label them journalist's that is.

[Stayingup]

What ever happened to it?

We used to be great at pressing teams high up all moving up the pitch together and getting at them. Outrunning every opponent each match.

Now we get all 11 behind the ball as quickly as possible then when we win it back we are so deep we cant do anything with it.

Hard to watch as well. Watching the team press high up the pitch was a good watch. Need to get back to that.

Didn't we used to be in their faces these top teams? Not now. But with referees like Dean about this aspect of the game is dying if not dead.

[claretcarrot93]

Didn't we used to be in their faces these top teams? Not now. But with referees like Dean about this aspect of the game is dying if not dead.

We did. Now we set up like a league two team who has got an FA cup draw rather than a side who has been playing at the top level for the last 4 years.

[MACCA]

Fear, lack of quality, lack of confidence, lack of coaching, no real pace, aome if not a little bit of all could be factors.

We did used to try the odd guve and go, getting to the dead ball line etc, now its play for position, play for set plays, 2nd balls and high hanging crosses from deep.

Regardless of opposition, the set up, tactics and approach is the same.
I can't fathom the gameplan from one team to the next, I can see what's happening but it doesnt look anything like a plan.
You see pundits pulling apart teams weaknesses post match, and highlighting their strengths.
I'd hope we had someone behind the scenes doing the same, but if there is, we dont see the results of their work.

But we seem to be a reactive club from top to bottom, so maybe thsts trickled down to the manager and team

[IanMcL]

Does not bode well for cup matches against lesser teams.

Some good success against better teams. We are not as bad as it looks.

[Barry_Chuckle]

The team are 4 years older and no longer able.

[jrgbfc]

We had the pace and energy of Danny Ings upfront which helped. Now we have Ashley Barnes whose got the turning speed of a cruise ship.

[Row Z]

Likely also to be a result of many teams now playing on the counter attack with pace and quality rather than a few years ago the favoured style being to keep possession for long periods and work up the pitch.

Imagine the space in behind for the top teams if we were to press high.

The most concerning thing though is we often don't lose 1-0 playing deep against decent sides, we are conceding 3s, 4s and 5s and create nothing yet we are persisting with it.

[Right_winger]

Said it for ages now, we set up the same way with virtually the same team and same tactics no matter who we play. Everything about our first team is rigid.

Virtually everyone on here could name our starting XI every week and what tactics we will employ, you can bet your bottom dollar that the opposition can aswell.

We are unable to employ any other tactics now because we do not have the personnel available to play any other way than we do.

Recruitment and the managers rigid approach has basically consigned us to a slow lingering slide down the table and eventual relegation. We need to roll the dice very soon to try and turn this around but we won’t, we will sit on it until we are forced to do something.

[Sheedyclaret]

Teams have probably worked us out by now kick and chase wont work for us in this league much longer...

[dougcollins]

We did. Now we set up like a league two team who has got an FA cup draw rather than a side who has been playing at the top level for the last 4 years.

That's exactly what I said when Pope went up for the late corner. Embarrassing.

[claretspice]

Short answer - we used to press a little bit higher when we had Keane in the back four, because his extra pace allowed us to play a slightly higher line.

But I do mean a little bit higher. The victory we achieved against Liverpool immediately after promotion, for example, was predicated on defending every bit as deep as we did in the first half on Wednesday night (but with the difference that we'd scored early so had something to hang on to - a goal we scored because the front two pressed and nicked the ball, something we still try and do but which opponents are wiser to.

[tiger76]

The team are 4 years older and no longer able.

Nail on the head.

Coampare us to Sheff Utd it's chalk and cheese,they have young legs all over the pitch,and crucially pace up front with Mousset,he gave City's defence the runaround yesterday,we lack any such option,and have since we sold Andre.

[TheFamilyCat]

Recruitment and the managers rigid approach has basically consigned us to a slow lingering slide down the table and eventual relegation. We need to roll the dice very soon to try and turn this around but we won’t, we will sit on it until we are forced to do something.

We are placed higher in the table than we finished, and were ever placed (I think) last season. We're well on course to surpass last season's points tally.

[jojomk1]

Thought we were a lot more positive/pressing in the home games against both WHU and Newcastle this season (especially in the first 45 mins)
But Dyche is ultra cautious and is happy to defend deep against "top" clubs both home and away - also against clubs of our level when an away fixture
Our current midfield simply don't have the pace to cope with such tactics over 90 mins

[Dyched]

There are times to do it and not. Against City it was pretty laughable how we let them have the freedom of the turf. Their defence probably had their easiest time of the season.

I’m ok with getting bashed to pieces by very good teams. But when we shoot ourselves in the foot doing so.

[tiger76]

We are placed higher in the table than we finished, and were ever placed (I think) last season. We're well on course to surpass last season's points tally.

That's true,however we've got a lot of games coming up against the traditional top 6 in the next couple of months,and our record against such sides doesn't inspire confidence that we'll collect many points over that spell,i still think we'll stay up comfortably enough as we're able to accumulate plenty of wins against the strugglers,but that shouldn't hide the defencies in our squad,which desperately need remedying this summer.

[jackmiggins]

Our main problem is the ‘first touch’ - quite woeful & embarrassing on many occasions. I hope that this will be addressed??

[TheFamilyCat]

That's true,however we've got a lot of games coming up against the traditional top 6 in the next couple of months,and our record against such sides doesn't inspire confidence that we'll collect many points over that spell,i still think we'll stay up comfortably enough as we're able to accumulate plenty of wins against the strugglers,but that shouldn't hide the defencies in our squad,which desperately need remedying this summer.

I know we're far from perfect and there are things I'd love to see us improve.

I've no real issue with others voicing their opinions (though hearing the same thing over and over again on every single thread is pretty tedious) but some of the comments, like the one I quoted which is easily debunked by facts, are just over-dramatic and are difficult to take seriously.

[diamondpocket]

Said it for ages now, we set up the same way with virtually the same team and same tactics no matter who we play. Everything about our first team is rigid.

Virtually everyone on here could name our starting XI every week and what tactics we will employ, you can bet your bottom dollar that the opposition can aswell.

We are unable to employ any other tactics now because we do not have the personnel available to play any other way than we do.

Recruitment and the managers rigid approach has basically consigned us to a slow lingering slide down the table and eventual relegation. We need to roll the dice very soon to try and turn this around but we won’t, we will sit on it until we are forced to do something.

Don't be so dramatic. You'd think we were bottom of the league with 6 points. How have we got 24 then if we are that predictable? A slow lingering slide down the table? We've always been a bottom half team except for the freak 2nd year. We are not a super powerhouse club, you know. The day we roll the dice and try and change things quickly is the day we're more likely to make rash decisions and go down.

[claretspice]

That's true,however we've got a lot of games coming up against the traditional top 6 in the next couple of months,and our record against such sides doesn't inspire confidence that we'll collect many points over that spell,i still think we'll stay up comfortably enough as we're able to accumulate plenty of wins against the strugglers,but that shouldn't hide the defencies in our squad,which desperately need remedying this summer.

Everyone has games coming up against the top 6. We're only half way through the season and everyone has played everyone once and one team twice. The order of those games is a bit besides the point really.

we don't press as high because pressing high isn't necessarily that effective, and we don't have a centre back with genuine pace any more. it's about that simple really. We've found other ways of accumulating points though.

[claretcarrot93]

Everyone has games coming up against the top 6. We're only half way through the season and everyone has played everyone once and one team twice. The order of those games is a bit besides the point really.

we don't press as high because pressing high isn't necessarily that effective, and we don't have a centre back with genuine pace any more. it's about that simple really. We've found other ways of accumulating points though.

These other ways are a hard watch though spice. Pressing teams getting in their faces was good to watch.

[Spijed]

We certainly pressed Norwich to death.

[claretspice]

These other ways are a hard watch though spice. Pressing teams getting in their faces was good to watch.

I thought everyone enjoyed Chelsea away last year?

[Spijed]

Don't be so dramatic. You'd think we were bottom of the league with 6 points. How have we got 24 then if we are that predictable? A slow lingering slide down the table? We've always been a bottom half team except for the freak 2nd year. We are not a super powerhouse club, you know. The day we roll the dice and try and change things quickly is the day we're more likely to make rash decisions and go down.

We've taken 49 points from our last 38 matches.

Quite impressive for a poor side!

[SalisburyClaret]

We still press (e.g. Norwich) but we struggle to control and pass the ball if we win it. We do tend to do better against the teams that try to pass out from the back though

[claretcarrot93]

I thought everyone enjoyed Chelsea away last year?

A 2-2 draw a year ago? Clutching now Spice. Norwich and West ham were the only enjoyable games this season. Where we got on the front foot

[Lord_Bob]

spijed:
We certainly pressed Norwich to death.

Certainly did - and it was brilliant! They barely got out of there own half for 20 min by which time we were 2 up.

BUT - remember they got one breakaway before we scored? That save by Pope from Pukki was huge, not only in the game but maybe for the season. We can get caught due to lack of pace.

So I assume the thinking is: if it is a bit risky against Norwich, then it's a lot more risky against top 6 teams.

[boyyanno]

I'd like to see us balance the side back out, I can't see how the football will improve without doing so. We only have two options at the moment, the left side or knocking it long. Having an out-ball on the RH/S of the pitch in either the defense or midfield is what we are crying out for. We've never been a side that plays it through the middle, so we need to be as effective as possible on BOTH flanks.

If we can sort out this imbalance the team will look far better imo.

[claretcarrot93]

I'd like to see us balance the side back out, I can't see how the football will improve without doing so. We only have two options at the moment, the left side or knocking it long. Having an out-ball on the RH/S of the pitch in either the defense or midfield is what we are crying out for. We've never been a side that plays it through the middle, so we need to be as effective as possible on BOTH flanks.

If we can sort out this imbalance the team will look far better imo.

Having a fully fit JBG will hopefully make a difference. Good player

[claretspice]

A 2-2 draw a year ago? Clutching now Spice. Norwich and West ham were the only enjoyable games this season. Where we got on the front foot

I'm not clutching at all. Firstly, that game was not a year ago, it was at the end of last season and we're half way through this season. And secondly, it was an example of a game in which we dug in and defended deep, but everyone found the result and performance enjoyable, which rather undermines the whole "its not enjoyable unless we press high" claim.

As for enjoyable games this season, there have been more than that for my money. Point at Wolves, 3-0 win against Southampton, narrow and competitive defeats against Arsenal and United, just to name a few off the top of my head. And that's after a first half of the season in which our run of home games has been pretty tough. We've already played United, Chelsea, Liverpool and City at home. Leicester, Spurs and Arsenal are probably the most beatable of this season's "top 7".

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement - clearly, there is - but we're in danger of losing all sense of perspective here. And the argument about a high press doesn't really get off first base IMO.

[claretcarrot93]

I'm not clutching at all. Firstly, that game was not a year ago, it was at the end of last season and we're half way through this season. And secondly, it was an example of a game in which we dug in and defended deep, but everyone found the result and performance enjoyable, which rather undermines the whole "its not enjoyable unless we press high" claim.

As for enjoyable games this season, there have been more than that for my money. Point at Wolves, 3-0 win against Southampton, narrow and competitive defeats against Arsenal and United, just to name a few off the top of my head. And that's after a first half of the season in which our run of home games has been pretty tough. We've already played United, Chelsea, Liverpool and City at home. Leicester, Spurs and Arsenal are probably the most beatable of this season's "top 7".

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement - clearly, there is - but we're in danger of losing all sense of perspective here. And the argument about a high press doesn't really get off first base IMO.

Okay games that have been boring or we have played bad now


Sunderland
Liverpool H
Brighton A
Villa A
Everton H
Chelsea H
Sheff U A
Palace H
City h
Spurs A
New H
Bourn A
Everton A


Its a thread saying the football is not enjoyable as it once was maybe thats due to an even bigger shift in men behind the ball tactics. I have given you 13 examples compared to your handful. Maybe its worth thinking about rather than just dismissing it.

Edit - People are going to mention we picked up points in them games which is fine but entertainment factor wasn't great.

[claretspice]

Okay games that have been boring or we have played bad now


Sunderland
Liverpool H
Brighton A
Villa A
Everton H
Chelsea H
Sheff U A
Palace H
City h
Spurs A
New H
Bourn A
Everton A


Its a thread saying the football is not enjoyable as it once was maybe thats due to an even bigger shift in men behind the ball tactics. I have given you 13 examples compared to your handful. Maybe its worth thinking about rather than just dismissing it.

It's not a thread about that. There are lots of other threads about that, so if that was the point, you could simply have commented on one of those others.

This is a thread in which you asked a specific question about a high-press. I've pointed out that we've not played with a high-press to any extent, certainly not against the bigger clubs, since Keane was sold in the summer of 2017. There's been no shift in tactics since then - the way we played at Chelsea last season being an example of us adopting exactly the same tactics previously. We didn't press high especially in the year we qualified for Europe.

As for the list - Villa away is a 2-2 draw. Everton at home was a tight game but we deserved to beat a very expensively assembled team. A lot of the other games - Chelsea, Liverpool and City - are examples of us being unable to cope with the top teams on a good day. This was ever thus and there's no magic fix to that. It says something of the shift in expectations that this is now deemed unacceptable.

I agree that we have become a bit one dimensional at times and that it would be nice if we could play in a slightly less functional way. I don't agree with you that a high press is the answer to that especially, for the reasons stated. I'd like to see us set up to try and keep the ball better, as we did in 2017/18. But this needs to be balanced with an understanding that we will not play well every week and our away wins in particular will often be hard won, and successes against the big 5 or 6 will be few and far between. That's just life, and we all need to remember that.

[claretcarrot93]

It's not a thread about that. There are lots of other threads about that, so if that was the point, you could simply have commented on one of those others.

This is a thread in which you asked a specific question about a high-press. I've pointed out that we've not played with a high-press to any extent, certainly not against the bigger clubs, since Keane was sold in the summer of 2017. There's been no shift in tactics since then - the way we played at Chelsea last season being an example of us adopting exactly the same tactics previously. We didn't press high especially in the year we qualified for Europe.

As for the list - Villa away is a 2-2 draw. Everton at home was a tight game but we deserved to beat a very expensively assembled team. A lot of the other games - Chelsea, Liverpool and City - are examples of us being unable to cope with the top teams on a good day. This was ever thus and there's no magic fix to that. It says something of the shift in expectations that this is now deemed unacceptable.

I agree that we have become a bit one dimensional at times and that it would be nice if we could play in a slightly less functional way. I don't agree with you that a high press is the answer to that especially, for the reasons stated. I'd like to see us set up to try and keep the ball better, as we did in 2017/18. But this needs to be balanced with an understanding that we will not play well every week and our away wins in particular will often be hard won, and successes against the big 5 or 6 will be few and far between. That's just life, and we all need to remember that.

I seem to remember we pressed against Norwich/West Ham and Arsenal away to some success. Could be wrong

[claretspice]

I seem to remember we pressed against Norwich/West Ham and Arsenal away to some success. Could be wrong

Yes. We still do it when we are confident we're not going to be out gunned in a foot race at the back. We were against West Ham and Norwich (I doubt we were so confident against Arsenal out of possession, but I wasn't there). We don't have the pace at the back to do it against the likes of Man United, or even the likes of Palace who have huge pace in Zaha.

[claretcarrot93]

Yes. We still do it when we are confident we're not going to be out gunned in a foot race at the back. We were against West Ham and Norwich (I doubt we were so confident against Arsenal out of possession, but I wasn't there). We don't have the pace at the back to do it against the likes of Man United, or even the likes of Palace who have huge pace in Zaha.

Againt Arsenal we smothered them at their goal kicks so much so, second half they just went long as we kept winning the ball back high up the pitch. It was a good performance in the first half especially.

[claretcarrot93]

Thats what I am talking about. More of the same please.