Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

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bfcjg
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by bfcjg » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:39 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:36 pm
I’ll never vote Tory . The difference between Tory and non Tory votes was remarkable . Labour 11 million . Tories 13 million. It’s not a lot . The FPTP makes it look like a landslide but it wasn't. We’ve got this. Ten years of tories . Rebuild a centre left party and we’ll be back. Born red and die red
On a previous thread I said the lib dems would have done so much better if the leader wasn't as arrogant about becoming PM and cancelling Brexit.
I think if labour stays as left as they are or move even further that way the lib dems will be the main opposition.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by KateR » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 pm

my son plays red dead, he keeps losing all the time so he says.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by bobinho » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Your leader, along with his bitch Merkel have already done that.

You'll be ok tho, wrapped up in the comfort blanket that the EU provides.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by fanzone » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:38 pm

yTib wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:37 pm
this is your leader.

Image

it makes idiots of us all.


The man will put Britain first which is surely what we all want.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Damo » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:03 pm

Watch Corbyns new year message. It might be a while before Labour have any credibility anywhere
Wouldn't be surprised if he is still leader at the next GE going off that. Mental

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:07 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 pm
my son plays red dead, he keeps losing all the time.

Since when did Burnley fans let a defeat get them down ? Oh wait a minute .....
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:08 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:08 pm
The Labour Party has embraced what the Democrats in the US have been pushing ever since 2008: a huge, previously-unthinkable lurch to the left and then demonising anyone who disagrees as racist, stupid, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.

I will never understand why they think this will work - human nature is to push back against anyone who treats you this way - which is why you've seen significant electoral upsets over the past 5 years. Voters now believe that the left does not advocate for them and that they are completely detached from reality.

I think most people are in the middle politically, but the left has gone to such extremes, the voters consider the Tories a far more palatable option. They might not agree with everything the Tories stand for, but there are more parts of the platform which speak to them than Labour's, nor do they treat them like evil idiots.

As much as people claim "Johnson is a racist" (laughable) or that "Johnson is a clown" (a lot more accurate), he is still less extreme than Corbyn and the utter bilge that was the Labour Party manifesto. So as much as the ultra-left claims the Tories are racist, etc., most people thought the Labour Party were WORSE.

Until Labour realizes quite how far down the socialist rabbit hole they've gone, electoral results such as these will be the norm. It wasn't just Brexit, it wasn't just Corbyn, it wasn't just the manifesto, it was EVERYTHING they did.

A former Labour voter.
There was nothing in the Labour Manifesto that wouldn't look out of place in the manifestos of many centre right Nordic parties. That you insist on calling it "extreme left" only shows how taken in you have been by the propaganda (both from our far right media, and the discontented side of Labour. Go ahead and find me something from the manifesto that is "extreme left wing". To give you a slightly different example, when Ed Miliband introduced the idea of capping energy bills, the Daily Mail called it "marxist" - however when Theresa May took up the idea only two years later, the Daily Mail said it showed how she was on the side of working class people. To consider your double standards a little more, the idea of Johnson being racist is laughable, despite the fact he's made racist comments in print. You won't find a single comment in print like that by Corbyn - nothing anti-Semitic - yet for many people he is so, or at the very least is tolerant of it (again despite having stated many times in no uncertain terms that he's not anti-Semitic). The economic record of the Tories since 2010 has been woeful, both by their standards and by those of decent people. Austerity has been a failure, as has neo liberal economics in general (which the last Labour government was also in thrall to. Labour have moved away from this, denouncing public private partnerships as the scam they are, and looking to take some sectors of the economy that clearly haven't worked well under private ownership back under public control - and yet the narrative runs that "Labour will crash the economy". Even a real comparison of Johnson and Corbyn as political figures doesn't work out for Johnson in the cold light of day - him being in politics for himself, whereas Corybn has served most of his time as a backbencher, and worked tirelessly for his constituents and various causes. Corbyn's ideals of social and economic justice remain the same, and Johnson's ideals (does he even have any?), well we know he'll say whatever it takes to get him in to office, and as London mayor and Foreign Secretary was considered very poor. It was always predicted that Corybn would drive out the so called moderates in the Labour Party. Purge them, and this would be a sign of how extreme he was, but it didn't happen (how many MPs did he remove the whip from?). Johnson on the other hand, fired the most moderate people in his party within weeks of becoming leader, and has arguably the most right wing cabinet in modern times, yet you insist Corbyn is extreme (surely this makes Johnson even more extreme?)?

This idea that Labour has moved to the extreme left of politics isn't one that Labour has created themselves, and as I've just shown, holds no water when held up to scrutiny. This "consensus" was built on a fiction and nourished by the right wing press. They relied on lots of people not even looking at the manifesto and dismissing it as "marxist" - but when you strip away the real meaning of words in politics, you do democracy a great disservice. As Goebbels once said: "if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth"
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:13 pm

Damo wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:03 pm
Watch Corbyns new year message. It might be a while before Labour have any credibility anywhere
Wouldn't be surprised if he is still leader at the next GE going off that. Mental
He won’t but it looks like one of momentum’s puppets like Rebecca will be . It will take another election defeat to finish them off I’m afraid . I don’t know where we can get the people from to build a new party . Who are the working class now ? If they exist they don’t seem to pull together . It all feels ok in London but I know we are a bubble like the red ones in Liverpool Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham, Plymouth, Exeter , Portsmouth, Canterbury , Southampton, Newcastle you know , the big huge cities where there are millions of us . Waiting for the Great Leap Forward .
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:17 pm

fanzone wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:38 pm
The man will put Britain first which is surely what we all want.
Putting Britain first, like releasing the security report on Russian interference in our democracy? Like not taking his girlfriend on a trade trip and thereby denying a space to a legitimate UK company? Like taking back control of our rail, water and power from foreign owned companies? The only thing Johnson will put first is himself.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:23 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:08 pm
This idea that Labour has moved to the extreme left of politics isn't one that Labour has created themselves, and as I've just shown, holds no water when held up to scrutiny.
"Holds no water when held up to scrutiny" - aside from the historic arse-kicking. HISTORIC.

You're a joke of a propaganda merchant. The fact that you quote Goebbels is just hilarious.

Keep that red flag flying high ... into utter oblivion! People like you are exactly the problem with the Labour party and why they fared worse than under Michael Foot.
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:28 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:13 pm
He won’t but it looks like one of momentum’s puppets like Rebecca will be . It will take another election defeat to finish them off I’m afraid . I don’t know where we can get the people from to build a new party . Who are the working class now ? If they exist they don’t seem to pull together . It all feels ok in London but I know we are a bubble like the red ones in Liverpool Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham, Plymouth, Exeter , Portsmouth, Canterbury , Southampton, Newcastle you know , the big huge cities where there are millions of us . Waiting for the Great Leap Forward .
If a Corbynista like RLB becomes the next leader, the Labour Party will split into a rump ultra-left party and a separate centre-left Blairite party. Instead of learning from their historic drubbing - like they did in 1983 and elected a genuine reformer - they would simply be doubling down. They would not survive in such a circumstance.

It'll be decades before they're back in power and the extreme left is pushed out to their rightful place. It'll take another once-in-a-generation leader like Blair before the centre-left party gains power. There certainly isn't anyone remotely in that league out there right now.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:37 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:23 pm
"Holds no water when held up to scrutiny" - aside from the historic arse-kicking. HISTORIC.

You're a joke of a propaganda merchant. The fact that you quote Goebbels is just hilarious.

Keep that red flag flying high ... into utter oblivion! People like you are exactly the problem with the Labour party and why they fared worse than under Michael Foot

Mate, there are people on here trying to find common ground and a way forward , your post is another rehash if familiar ‘we won’ ******** that helps none of us . You , I mean you personally, won nothing . I lost nothing . Life goes on the same . Terms like leftie etc are just lifted from the internet . I mean seriously how many acres do you own ?

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:37 pm
Quite the opposite. I'm a former Labour party voter. Everyone lost on the 12th because of the antics of that guy and his ilk. "My team" certainly didn't win.

I want to be able to vote for Labour again and that means getting rid of Corbyn and his ultra-left cronies.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:28 pm
If a Corbynista like RLB becomes the next leader, the Labour Party will split into a rump ultra-left party and a separate centre-left Blairite party. Instead of learning from their historic drubbing - like they did in 1983 and elected a genuine reformer - they would simply be doubling down. They would not survive in such a circumstance.

It'll be decades before they're back in power and the extreme left is pushed out to their rightful place. It'll take another once-in-a-generation leader like Blair before the centre-left party gains power. There certainly isn't anyone remotely in that league out there right now.
‘Their rightful place ‘ ‘corbynista’ ‘drubbing’ all this is becoming boring . Be original and try to avoid smears and put downs . You know, intelligent reasoning . We know that leavers and remainers have different personality types and we know that confidential bias makes us reject views that do not fit our own opinions but we should try and move beyond that as the only hope is finding common ground . Slagging each other off us easy but gets us nowhere
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:46 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm
Quite the opposite. I'm a former Labour party voter. Everyone lost on the 12th because of the antics of that guy and his ilk. "My team" certainly didn't win.

I want to be able to vote for Labour again and that means getting rid of Corbyn and his ultra-left cronies.
There you go again what does ultra left mean ? Corbyn ? He’s no che Guevara . Millions of us still voted labour . Traitors flee and cowards fear . You read the sun yeah ? Or the mail ? Where do you get this anti left stuff from ?

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:46 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm
‘Their rightful place ‘ ‘corbynista’ ‘drubbing’ all this is becoming boring . Be original and try to avoid smears and put downs . You know, intelligent reasoning . We know that leavers and remainers have different personality types and we know that confidential bias makes us reject views that do not fit our own opinions but we should try and move beyond that as the only hope is finding common ground . Slagging each other off us easy but gets us nowhere
If you don't think it was a historical drubbing, I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like you need to read up on your history, to be honest.

"Be original and try to avoid smears and put downs" - and then adopts a holier-than-thou attitude claiming "intelligent reasoning". Superb effort in contradicting yourself there, oh, superior one.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:46 pm
There you go again what does ultra left mean ? Corbyn ? He’s no che Guevara . Millions of us still voted labour . Traitors flee and cowards fear . You read the sun yeah ? Or the mail ? Where do you get this anti left stuff from ?
Hilarious. That's right, I'm a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic retard with an IQ of 83. That's your style, yeah?

Keep on losing!

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:48 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm
‘Their rightful place ‘ ‘corbynista’ ‘drubbing’ all this is becoming boring . Be original and try to avoid smears and put downs . You know, intelligent reasoning . We know that leavers and remainers have different personality types and we know that confidential bias makes us reject views that do not fit our own opinions but we should try and move beyond that as the only hope is finding common ground . Slagging each other off us easy but gets us nowhere
I agree, but you must be new here if you haven't seen the last 3 years of goading shite.

The venomous sandal wearers are the worst at it, by the way.
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:51 pm

I’m glad you want to vote labour again

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:55 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 pm
Hilarious. That's right, I'm a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic retard with an IQ of 83. That's your style, yeah?

Keep on losing!
What did I lose ? My life’s the same . When you claim you won I have to laugh sorry . There was a guy collecting from a foodbank shouting that he had ‘won’ . I don’t know what . Seriously what difference does it make to you personally ?

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:59 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:48 pm
I agree, but you must be new here if you haven't seen the last 3 years of goading shite.

The venomous sandal wearers are the worst at it, by the way.
Venomous sandal wearers ? I’m sorry you’ve lost me . Is Venomous a brand ? I do have Birkenstock’s but only for the beach . What do you wear on the beach ? Not sandals ?

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:01 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:55 pm
What did I lose ? My life’s the same . When you claim you won I have to laugh sorry . There was a guy collecting from a foodbank shouting that he had ‘won’ . I don’t know what . Seriously what difference does it make to you personally ?
Why are you even contributing if you're taking things literally? If you're not able to understand context, you're probably not going to do well here.

You're also not able to comprehend the fact that I've said that I didn't win anything - you sound like a diehard Corbynista, just hearing what you want to hear.

As a former Labour voter who had to swallow hard to cast his vote this time, I certainly didn't win at all. I only lost less badly than I would have done if Corbyn had been elected. I suspect the Tory government policies will not do me much good personally, but they'll do less damage than what Corbyn would have done as PM.

Keep on laughing at things which aren't there. Why not? The world needs more laughter.
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Dixie Normous » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:03 pm

More insults ? You are not nice . I’ll leave it at that you boring chunt

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:06 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:03 pm
More insults ? You are not nice . I’ll leave it at that you boring chunt
Haha. Nice trolling. FWIW, I only realised after the sandals comment.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:32 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:23 pm
"Holds no water when held up to scrutiny" - aside from the historic arse-kicking. HISTORIC.

You're a joke of a propaganda merchant. The fact that you quote Goebbels is just hilarious.

Keep that red flag flying high ... into utter oblivion! People like you are exactly the problem with the Labour party and why they fared worse than under Michael Foot.
Thanks for the party political answer. The fact you've ignored my post suggests you're the propagandist. Quoting Goebbels is just what a student of history might do. Practicing what Goebbels taught, however, makes you what?

Again, show me what in the Labour Manifesto made them extreme leftwing.

And then - if you can - point to me the Conservative Party policies that must have so caught on with the working class who switched to them.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by dsr » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:33 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:32 pm
Thanks for the party political answer. The fact you've ignored my post suggests you're the propagandist. Quoting Goebbels is just what a student of history might do. Practicing what Goebbels taught, however, makes you what?

Again, show me what in the Labour Manifesto made them extreme leftwing.

And then - if you can - point to me the Conservative Party policies that must have so caught on with the working class who switched to them.
When someone comes knocking on your door saying that they will knock 20% off your working week, give you free broadband, reduce your energy bills, scrap prescription charges, and introduce free train travel while using the proceeds of sale of tickets to pay for nationalisation, and it won't cost you a penny - then people didn't believe them. Simple as that. They thought Labour was full of dreamers who were promising stuff they couldn't provide. And on top of that is the underlying idea that they will ignore your vote anyway if you vote "the wrong way", it's no wonder they weren't popular.

And you need to get away from the idea that Boris Johnson is right wing. He is on the liberal, left side of the Tory party.. But I suppose when you think of Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbyn as sort of centrist, then anyone to the right of Harold Wilson is going to look right wing from your perspective.
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Longsidebogs » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:44 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:36 pm
I’ll never vote Tory . The difference between Tory and non Tory votes was remarkable . Labour 11 million . Tories 13 million. It’s not a lot . The FPTP makes it look like a landslide but it wasn't. We’ve got this. Ten years of tories . Rebuild a centre left party and we’ll be back. Born red and die red
Enormous Dick. Sounds about right.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:33 pm
When someone comes knocking on your door saying that they will knock 20% off your working week, give you free broadband, reduce your energy bills, scrap prescription charges, and introduce free train travel while using the proceeds of sale of tickets to pay for nationalisation, and it won't cost you a penny - then people didn't believe them. Simple as that. They thought Labour was full of dreamers who were promising stuff they couldn't provide. And on top of that is the underlying idea that they will ignore your vote anyway if you vote "the wrong way", it's no wonder they weren't popular.

And you need to get away from the idea that Boris Johnson is right wing. He is on the liberal, left side of the Tory party.. But I suppose when you think of Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbyn as sort of centrist, then anyone to the right of Harold Wilson is going to look right wing from your perspective.
I've posited how right ring Johnson is by the people he's sacked and those he's promoted. He's giving IDS a knighthood, when many people would like to see him convicted of manslaughter. But go on, and let us know how liberal and moderate he is - with facts, if you don't mind?

As for Labour's ticket - they promised a Britain that looks no different to most of Europe. If owning our own railways, water, and energy is "extreme left wing" then your sense of what is right and left politically doesn't chime with the rest of the continent. It's not a surprise when you consider that the places in which Rupert Murdoch has a significant stake in the media - Australia, Britain, and the US - all have a political "centre" that is greatly to the right of most other similar countries.

You are spouting the bilge of foreign billionaires, and I am backing the people of this country. Who of us is the true patriot?

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by Corky » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:04 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:16 am
That's a bit of a microcosm of what went wrong. The Labour Party have the same attitude as you. You are so certain that Brexit is likely to damage living standards and the rest of it, that you assume everyone believes the same as you and that those who vote against have decided that damaging them doesn't matter.

It isn't like that. Other people have different opinions to you and other people believe that things like workers' rights will not be affected. If you argue against someone's opinions, they might consider yours and come to your way of thinking; if you carry on as if their views don't exist, then they won't.
Perhaps first of all I should state that I am not a member of the Labour Party and think they got it wrong when they picked Corbyn as their next leader. The electorate have shown quite clearly that they are happy to have a bumbling, liar and a cheat as their PM. Someone who has demonstrated in the past that if not full blown he has racist, homophobic and islamaphobic tendencies. But that's OK because that Boris he a laugh. And of course he had the full weight of the right wing establishment and media behind him.

Corbyn handled both the anti-semitism charges and the Labour stance on Brexit very badly, this coupled with his complete lack of personality and humour did not go down well with voters.

It seems as though you are saying that I have my view and others will not hold the same views as me. Bit obvious!!!! I said and will reiterate that leaving the EU has the potential for great damage being done to the UK. So I am far from certain but think it highly likely as do a number of leading economists. Time will tell.

Interesting that you single out workers rights as an example of something that "other people" believe will not be affected. Have you seen the latest draft of the Brexit document. I believe that any guarantees for workers rights has been removed.

But that's OK because that Boris he a right laugh he is!!!!

I would not have been particularly happy with Corbyn as PM but am even less so with someone like Johnson representing our country. No gravitas, no empathy with the majority of the electorate. And of course this is my view and others may disagree.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by dsr » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:28 am

Corky wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:04 am
Interesting that you single out workers rights as an example of something that "other people" believe will not be affected. Have you seen the latest draft of the Brexit document. I believe that any guarantees for workers rights has been removed.
And you would feel happier if the law was changed to guarantee everyone 20 days holiday including bank holiays per year, 14 weeks maternity pay, no minimum wage, and the rest of it? If the government proposes cutting rights to below that level, then they will be voted out. So it won't happen.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by timshorts » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:33 am

I'm not a labour voter either. It seems to me that this is being treated as a multiple choice test where the reason for labour's massive loss of vote share has to be down to one major factor rather than a whole lot of them in combination.
It wasn't. They all added up to a disaster. You could probably take one of the number away but that would only have reduced the level of the loss. There seem to have been quite a lot of voters saying that they "liked a lot of what Labour is saying BUT........"
and then fill in at your leisure
a) (the press have convinced me that) corbyn is anti semitic.
b) I don't like corbyn or I don't like either of them but I think corbyn should be voted out
c) get brexit done
d) Labour are going to over spend and ruin the economy
e) the press kept reminding me that Diane abbot and her like existed.

The posters on this site are not truly representative of voters. If we averaged an iq of 83 or whatever it was above we wouldn't be on here. There has only been one of us who has admitted to liking Mrs brown s boys. Not that many seem to watch I'm a celebrity type crap, but there are lots of voters that fall into those categories and they get one vote just like us.
That Cummings character - who I'm sure would be sorted into slytherin before the hat got within half a mile of him - is fully aware of all the above and used it perfectly in achieving the result he wanted.
I don't think labour have much of a chance of making up the ground easily without a similar attitude being taken. Right now they are even further from taking lessons on board than ever. They are being told what happened and why, but are only believing those parts that they want to hear.

JohnMcGreal
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:29 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:33 pm
They thought Labour was full of dreamers who were promising stuff they couldn't provide.
Yet they are very quick to believe the unfulfillable promises made by the dreamers of the Leave campaigns and now the Tory party.

Perhaps people are more likely to believe in something when it's wrapped up in jingoism and nationalism.

ClaretMoffitt
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:01 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:29 am
Yet they are very quick to believe the unfulfillable promises made by the dreamers of the Leave campaigns and now the Tory party.

Perhaps people are more likely to believe in something when it's wrapped up in jingoism and nationalism.
perhaps labour should try that then instead of constantly hating on the country they want to rule.

KateR
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by KateR » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:17 pm

Dixie Normous wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 pm
‘Their rightful place ‘ ‘corbynista’ ‘drubbing’ all this is becoming boring . Be original and try to avoid smears and put downs . You know, intelligent reasoning . We know that leavers and remainers have different personality types and we know that confidential bias makes us reject views that do not fit our own opinions but we should try and move beyond that as the only hope is finding common ground . Slagging each other off us easy but gets us nowhere
This I like :)

AndrewJB
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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by AndrewJB » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:07 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:01 am
perhaps labour should try that then instead of constantly hating on the country they want to rule.
How on earth have Labour been “hating on” this country? I can tell you how the Tories have - through cutting worker rights and imposing austerity, but Labour promised to move away from that. How you can claim a large political party like Labour hate our country, only the rightwing media who persuaded you of this notion will know.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by houseboy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:25 pm

basil6345789 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:31 pm
"Little Englander mentality" - you just don't get it, do you? The People have voted twice and very well informed they were.
I wouldn't worry about this kind of statement mate, many remainers just cannot accept that intelligent and well informed people made a personal choice that we would be better off out. Whether we were right or wrong remains to be seen but all they have is 'we were lied to' (as though the remain campaign didn't have project fear) and accusations of racism (which influenced my vote not one jot). My only reason for not voting Labour at the last election* (as I normally would) was because I just didn't trust them on Brexit.

*I didn't vote Tory or Lib Dem either - rather than not vote at all I voted Brexit party for no other reason than I don't like to not use my vote and the other 3 left me feeling disenfranchised. I couldn't ever vote Tory. Labour left me feeling that at best we would be left with a watered down Brexit. The Lib Dems are a disgrace of a party who will sell their souls to grab a handfull of shared power and are shamelessly undemocratic when it comes to Brexit, they got all they deserved at the election and Swinson losing her seat made my otherwise depressing day a bit sweeter.

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Re: Conservatives win Burnley after 109 years ... why ?

Post by IanMcL » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:54 pm

fanzone wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:38 pm
The man will put Britain first which is surely what we all want.
Actually....no.
That would be incredibly selfish....you know, like Thatcherwoman's mantra...look after number one and there is no such thing as society.

Voting tory has cursed the football team!

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