Unfortunately we are sitting ducks for relegation

s6t9a2f3f · Post by **s6t9a2f3f** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 am

Its really frustrating but as a small club we WILL follow the likes of Rovers, Wigan and Bolton and if not this season but the next or the next we will drop down as we cannot attract the investment required to compete away from the relegation area season after season. SD cannot change the team style around in this league because of mainly 3 reasons :

1 - We need to buy a number of players in that quality bracket to change to a more dynamic, flair, creativity team with speed and pace.

2 - We cannot attract these players being a small town club in the north

3 - We cannot afford the wages if a player wanted to come.

Even when real gems surface like Austin, Ings, Keane etc etc and probably soon Tarks and McNeill show their worth they get poached off us, that's football as we know it. To turn into a Wolves or a Leicester would take a huge, huge investment and also the risk that if bad decisions were made (eg Venkys) we could drop like a stone no doubt.
10-15 years ago we would give our right arms to be constantly battling in the top league regardless of the type of football we were playing and lets face it the club wanted to go down a different route with the Eddie Howe project but it wasn't to be.
We are fighting way above our weight, without Tarks and McNeill this is a championship club on the pitch and would we be above Leeds and West Brom at this present moment ? fair to say probably not.

Enjoy the ride you all know eventually where its going to end so just chill and take from it how much the money has improved the club off the field.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:30 am

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 am
Its really frustrating but as a small club we WILL follow the likes of Rovers, Wigan and Bolton and if not this season but the next or the next

Never understand why everyone is so convinced of this.

Top 6 aside history shows we have always been as good as or better than most of the rest including and especially Palace, Norwich, Watford, Southampton, Bournemouth, Sheffield united etc.

And before people start going on about wealthy backers. We are debt free. We have no debts to plug. We have as good a foundation as any club to cement our place at this level.

Parkvilla · Post by **Parkvilla** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:34 am

Rovers, Bolton, Wigan all went down having spent fortunes and all massively in debt
When we go down we go with, Garlick likes to tell everyone, 40 million in the bank and no debt to anyone. Why people compare us to them I don't know.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:36 am

So are Norwich ,Watford ,west Ham ,Aston Villa ,Bournemouth ,Southampton.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:46 am

Parkvilla wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:34 am
Rovers, Bolton, Wigan all went down having spent fortunes and all massively in debt
When we go down we go with, Garlick likes to tell everyone, 40 million in the bank and no debt to anyone. Why people compare us to them I don't know.

I find it great logic, save 40-50m so if relegated you can use it to bounce straight back up.
Why spend the 40-50m now to stay in the league?

Burnley prefer the reactive approach, as if we scrape survival we can post Another 20-30m profit and freeze season tickets.
Keeps everyone happy then

s6t9a2f3f · Post by **s6t9a2f3f** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:49 am

Parkvilla wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:34 am
Rovers, Bolton, Wigan all went down having spent fortunes and all massively in debt
When we go down we go with, Garlick likes to tell everyone, 40 million in the bank and no debt to anyone. Why people compare us to them I don't know.

The comparison with Bolton is they are a "small club" - there capacity is relatively low - they are surrounded by other clubs and thats why their fan base wont increase much season after season - there northern based - for some seasons under sam (not all of them) they played direct football - they are not in a location where they are a sleeping giant and with any success thousands extra are going to appear

Need anymore comparisons ?

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:55 am

I suspect the opening poster, like me and many others cares greatly about their club, and does not want to see us throw away whats been achieved since SD's first promotion

We spend a lot of time talking about how grateful we should be, and how we are still better than a lot of clubs in the PL. What I am seeing at present is a lot of ascendancy in the bottom half. We got well beat by Villa (it could have been 4-1 or more) and we are seeing sides like Watford, Saints, Brighton, now competing and beating the best

There are a few things that are coming up now which actually don't involve spending money and we need to be brave and change them, such as keeping a few players in the wings when there are certain regular non performers starting ahead of them. The management of Danny Drinkwater has been appalling. I know he had his issues but why did we keep him to have him on the bench and never play him. Are you saying a run of 4-5 games would show him to be a worse player than Westwood & Cork were yesterday. These two are just not in the League of Marney, Defour and Joey. Even Scotty Arfield would get stuck in more than these guys and show more passion. Both these guys would struggle to retain their places in the top half of the Championship

SD needs a word in his hear and if he does not like it tough. I cannot see a change in results certainly not in the next 4-5 weeks, at which point confidence might be shot when we play some of the lower teams. I think Bournemouth's result on Saturday took the focus off us, but if Leicester tonk us we will get our share of attention

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm

In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:15 pm

After watching yesterday's game live then again on TV Imo the goals they scored inc the disallowed one were all executed well in the build up and finish.... to be fair to Villa. We on the other hand have lost the Formula for being solid and closing the opposition down we look bereft of any idea.... in the second half yesterday tarkowski arms open like a ref invited grealish to run down the Left flank..he didnt need asking twice.Weve been sussed for weeks now and the no shots on target "stat" is actually "Fact" if we aren't gonna run at the opposition they'll seize the opportunity.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

What a fantastic way of looking at it

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

We couldn't beat Swindon in 68/69 so that's a fair point!

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm

Admire your positivity-I think the Labour Government is looking for a new PR man

Would like to do an update on the four statement scenario after the next 5 games. I would also challenge the last statement about goal keepers. Have you seen Ben Foster in the last half dozen games or Henderson of Sheffield United. I love Popey and he is possibly the most commanding English goalkeeper in the air. But hit it low and hard and he struggles to get down -hence the high use of his feet

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:25 pm

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:49 am
The comparison with Bolton is they are a "small club" - there capacity is relatively low - they are surrounded by other clubs and thats why their fan base wont increase much season after season - there northern based - for some seasons under sam (not all of them) they played direct football - they are not in a location where they are a sleeping giant and with any success thousands extra are going to appear

Need anymore comparisons ?

however Bolton had a multi millionaire backer at the time ploughing cash into the club - they died when that stopped - which is why we shouldn't wish for a single massive backer like some want. I predict that at some point, if it the sheikh leaves, that Man City will go back to being the club they were before the money as will Chelsea when the oligarch goes.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:26 pm

Wouldn’t say we were well beat by Villa. We had 21 shots, nearly 70% possession and twice as many corners as them. We could have won 4-2, if we could hit the target. I thought it was a classic game of two halves, with us shading it overall, but lacking the quality of a player like Grealish who could create chance after chance and score a great goal. Why we stood off him the whole match and made him look quite so good, I’ll never know.

Otherwise, agree with the general sentiments of this thread. We will get relegated eventually and I suspect by the end of January we’ll be right in and amongst it with our forthcoming fixtures. This place is going to be a grim read for the next month.

I’d say there are probably only 8 “established” PL clubs in this country with another 12 lucky enough to be in the league with them, and 20 or so in the league below fighting it out to replace us. It will come to an end but thankfully, when it does, I can’t see us capitulating as other indebted teams have done in the past.

alboclaret · Post by **alboclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:26 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

Exactly.

The manager needs to use these tools he has better then doesnt he. ?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:28 pm

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:22 pm
Admire your positivity-I think the Labour Government is looking for a new PR man

Would like to do an update on the four statement scenario after the next 5 games. I would also challenge the last statement about goal keepers. Have you seen Ben Foster in the last half dozen games or Henderson of Sheffield United. I love Popey and he is possibly the most commanding English goalkeeper in the air. But hit it low and hard and he struggles to get down -hence the high use of his feet

Ben Foster has been absolutely brilliant this season even when they were getting tonked.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:45 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

Here's another way of looking at it:
Lost 6 of the last 8 (9 of the last 13).
Conceded 17 goals in the last 8.
Scored 4.
Have hardly any shots on target.
Next 4 league games are Chelsea (a), Leicester (h), United (a) and Arsenal (our major bogey side who we have never beaten in the PL) (h).
If that doesn't inspire us all with confidence what will?

Incidentally the game after that little lot is Southampton who are now one of the 'strugglers' who are coming into some kind of form.

Maybe I'm just over-confident.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:49 pm

Current form reeks of relegation

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:51 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:49 pm
Current form reeks of relegation

Current form table puts us joint 3rd from bottom with Villa. With the exception of Norwich everyone below us seems to be improving.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:58 pm

I think a lot of supporters are disappointed in our lack of investment in quality players despite the so called PL magic money tree.

I don't know the costs of running a club like ours but I still find it hard to believe that we hardly any money for transfers when the window opens.

This window is not looking any more promising and I really do think that we'll get relegated if we don't invest in a couple of players. Fingers crossed that the magic money fairy can wave her wand in our direction.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:00 pm

Do these improving teams include Newcastle?

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:18 pm

This may be of interest...
The Benefits of Positive Thinking -

A more worthwhile life: the more you add positive value to your life with positive thinking, the more worthwhile life is for you

Greater confidence: the more you believe you can achieve things (a common form of positive thinking), the more self-confidence you have

Higher self esteem: the more value you see in yourself with positive thinking, the higher your sense of self worth

More happiness and enjoyment: the more positive value that you see in life, the happier you become, and the more you enjoy life

Feeling stronger: as your confidence and self esteem increases due to positive thinking, you also feel stronger and more powerful

More energy: positive thinking often motivates and energizes you to achieve things

More peace of mind: the better you feel overall with positive thinking, the more peace of mind you have

More success: having more energy, more self esteem, and more self confidence leads to more success

More enjoyable interactions with others: the more you enjoy life and value yourself, the more you tend to enjoy social interactions

Better sleep & health: more peaceful, positive emotions = less stressful, negative emotions that can take a physical toll on your body; the result is you enjoy the health benefits of positive thinking, including better quality of sleep

Greater clarity of mind: since you have a choice, it makes sense to think in acceptable positive ways that benefit you rather than in negative ways that hurt you

Sean Dyche will be grateful

Andreshotboots · Post by **Andreshotboots** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:34 pm

4 points off 9th place.. I'll stay positive...

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:05 pm

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 am
Its really frustrating but as a small club we WILL follow the likes of Rovers, Wigan and Bolton

Everyone has followed the likes of them with the exceptions of Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Everton, Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea.

Accept the inevitable and enjoy the now.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:38 pm

tim_noone wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:18 pm
We couldn't beat Swindon in 68/69 so that's a fair point!

We beat them at their place.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:12 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:38 pm
We beat them at their place.

Not in the one that mattered.....at the Hawthorns. And yes...I read his post.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:11 pm

No but we did beat them. For some reaon, you said we didn't.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:18 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:11 pm
No but we did beat them. For some reaon, you said we didn't.

Can you repeat the question please..

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:27 pm

I hope SD, the coaches and squad watched Liverpool v Seff Utd tonight. I know Liverpool won but could not help admire how the Sheffield players fought, harried, kept possession, played it out of defence, played with passion and could have had a goal or two. Wilder had a plan. The team on paper don't have the pedigree of ours (one of the few PL sides that doesn't) but if I was a Sheffield fan tonight I would be well proud. 29 points on the board and they have been doing what they did tonight since coming into the Prem

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:33 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

Can’t fault your optimism mate ! Could I also add we
1.Drink more bene n hot than any other club in Europe
2. Sell more pies per rata than any other club in Lancashire

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:33 pm

Liverpool had the highest number of passes in Premier League history in tonight''s game, it was a scouse cake walk let's have it right.

Not denigrating Sheff U's season up to now but they were ultra passive tonight.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:37 pm

They were playing the world's current best club side, their team cost about half of ours,their top wage is about £25k a week.Right now If we went to Anfield Saturday and replicated that performance I would be ecstatic

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:05 pm

No shots on target 1st half in our last 9 Premier League games tells it's own sorry tale of our current form. That is something that needs addressing with great haste

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:50 pm

Parkvilla wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:34 am
Rovers, Bolton, Wigan all went down having spent fortunes and all massively in debt
When we go down we go with, Garlick likes to tell everyone, 40 million in the bank and no debt to anyone. Why people compare us to them I don't know.

not wanting to get into the issue of our very poor performances - but just when did Mike Garlick tell everyone we had £40m in the bank - last accounts were some way short of that and the only time I have heard of him talk about cash in the bank was a couple of seasons back

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:05 am

Before the last accounts came out (for 17/18 ) he mentioned the club having £24m in the bank. Presumably its increased somewhat since then .

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:10 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:27 pm
I hope SD, the coaches and squad watched Liverpool v Seff Utd tonight. I know Liverpool won but could not help admire how the Sheffield players fought, harried, kept possession, played it out of defence, played with passion and could have had a goal or two. Wilder had a plan. The team on paper don't have the pedigree of ours (one of the few PL sides that doesn't) but if I was a Sheffield fan tonight I would be well proud. 29 points on the board and they have been doing what they did tonight since coming into the Prem

5 points in front of us...they lost 2..0 I'm a Burnley fan tonight and will always be proud of that without it I am nothing.win lose or draw.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:48 am

Aside from Pope, Tarks and McNeil I don't think any of the rest of the team that played against Villa would be of much interest in the transfer market to most of the teams at the top of the Championship let alone the Premier League. The Whole is Greater than the Sum of its Parts isn't working for us now. I don't know what broke it but it is broken.

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:07 am

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 pm
In the ten team league we play in, we are currently 5th. 1 point off 2nd place.

Our forward has the most headed goals in Europe
Our midfielder has the joint top number of assists for an English player in the PL
We have one of the best young players in Europe on the wing
We have the best English goalkeeper around

Better than playing Swindon away

Or getting stuffed 3-0 at Scarborough.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:32 am

The focus put on the next 4 games is understandable, and lets say we lose all 4, OK not good but it will probably end up with us in relegation zone. However Burnley always play better when our backs are against the wall, so it could be a blessing .But then when you look at the remaining fixtures, below are something I feel (and probably through claret tinted glasses somewhat), that we could get something from. if we take 16 points as required I think the last 3 games of the season are going to be massive.

Saturday 15th February
Premier League
Southampton V Burnley

Saturday 22nd February
Premier League
Burnley V Bournemouth

Saturday 29th February
Premier League
Newcastle United V Burnley

Saturday 21st March
Premier League
Burnley V Watford

Saturday 4th April
Premier League
Crystal Palace V Burnley

Saturday 11th April
Premier League
Burnley V Sheffield United

Saturday 18th April
Premier League
West Ham United V Burnley

Saturday 2nd May
Premier League
Burnley V Wolverhampton Wanderers

Saturday 9th May
Premier League
Norwich City V Burnley

Sunday 17th May
Premier League
Burnley V Brighton and Hove Albion

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:55 am

That must be one of the “ easiest “ run ins in premier league history , if we went down after that we’d have deserved it .

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:59 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:55 am
That must be one of the “ easiest “ run ins in premier league history , if we went down after that we’d have deserved it .

I did remove the fixtures where even with Claret tinted glasses on, we don't stand a chance.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:15 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:55 am
That must be one of the “ easiest “ run ins in premier league history , if we went down after that we’d have deserved it .

Last 5 or 6 weeks of season rarely works out like that. Loads of freak results every season, teams resting players for Europe or FA Cup latter stages etc.
If the teams we are playing have got something to play for then there are no easy games.

The problem is the next few weeks and the position we might find ourselves in by early / mid Feb. Odds are we could be in bottom 3 and we then have a team low on confidence and under big pressure.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:29 am

We wont get relegated in January, nobody ever does

The season will be defined by how we play from February onwards. We have many players out of form at the moment and, if it has to happen, it is better when we are playing games we expect to lose.

If those players return to form in February we will stay up easily. Our form in our mini league is very good

Helmshore Claret · Post by **Helmshore Claret** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:48 am

Perhaps it could be argued,that it was because Rovers and Bolton had,indulgent, backers who were fans, made those clubs, eventually, vulnerable.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:31 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:15 am
Last 5 or 6 weeks of season rarely works out like that. Loads of freak results every season, teams resting players for Europe or FA Cup latter stages etc.
If the teams we are playing have got something to play for then there are no easy games.

The problem is the next few weeks and the position we might find ourselves in by early / mid Feb. Odds are we could be in bottom 3 and we then have a team low on confidence and under big pressure.

True , the next few weeks could likely see us in the bottom 3 ( even if we play well ) and that in turn leads to “ relegation football “ though I’d take our fixtures anyday as they could be against teams already safe and /or around our level , who I think we can beat if it comes to a scrap. Personally I think we’ll ease through with a couple of weeks to spare , though in this league couple of upsets and were talking europe

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:46 pm

Every season in the premier league we have had a poor patch of games, even the season we qualified for Europe saw us go over ten games without winning and in those games we looked as bad if not worse than we have done in recent weeks.

In my opinion this season has seen us control games and win comfortably more times than any of our previous seasons (southampton, West Ham, Norwich) alongside solid wins v newcastle, Everton Watford. So I remain hopeful we will snap out of our current plight and stay up. However am I worried yes because Wednesday was that bad, the other sides at the bottom look capable of winning runs and the signs are that a much needed refreshment of the squad doesn’t look like happening. We have some pressure games coming up but atleast it might make things a bit more interesting for those who keep moaning about the standard of football and us just existing in the premier league.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:47 pm

What we need is dyche to remove his blinkers and use his squad and a change of tactics,not keep plugging away with the same 11 and same tactics, didn't he use to say he likes to mix it up!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 pm

And a month on...

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:43 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 pm
And a month on...

Funny Spijed you beat me to it

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:56 pm

Safron wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:47 pm
What we need is dyche to remove his blinkers and use his squad and a change of tactics,not keep plugging away with the same 11 and same tactics, didn't he use to say he likes to mix it up!