How much money do we have ?

[Claretglass]

Now then Clarets, we have been in the Prem for four seasons and I would guess that all these seasons have made profit as we are the best run club Can any one tell me how much we have in reserve ie cash at bank as we openly hear sums of 20-30 million by Directors although this is not a great margin after an income of 500 million. Serious question, no I am not totally thick, but I have had a few drinkies and cannot work it out Hahahah and we will stay up, just

[Burnleyareback2]

Don’t tell him...

[Vegas Claret]

[Claretglass]

Ok I will give it till KO on Saturday for a response worthy of a real question, love the humour though, absolutely expected Hahahahah

[Buxtonclaret]

Not sure they'll have finished counting it all, by Saturday?

[claretonthecoast1882]

There are some out there who think the only expense in running a football club is the transfer fees paid.

[BurnleyFC]

I bet the boardroom is wallpapered in 50 quid notes.

[ClaretAndJew]

2008/09 season was purportedly worth 100 million.

We've been in the PL for 5 full years at roughly 120 million per year.

So over half a billion in income.

So whatever the output of a small club a operating costs plus our average wages of each player (1.6 million per year) (https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... amp?page=5)

Coupled with our transfer spend which isn't bad considering what we've had in incomings..

We've spent it all basically. It costs almost a hundred million per year to run a club in the PL.

[jedi_master]

2008/09 season was purportedly worth 100 million.

We've been in the PL for 5 full years at roughly 120 million per year.

So over half a billion in income.

So whatever the output of a small club a operating costs plus our average wages of each player (1.6 million per year) (https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... amp?page=5)

Coupled with our transfer spend which isn't bad considering what we've had in incomings..

We've spent it all basically. It costs almost a hundred million per year to run a club in the PL.

Plus ground improvements (of which there have been plenty since 2009 - new shop, ticketing, two corner stands, concourse of CFS, new screen etc etc) and the training ground.

[Burnley1989]

There are some out there who think the only expense in running a football club is the transfer fees paid.

I thought it was the chairman’s job to pay for everything else out of his own pocket? When did this new rule come in?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I thought it was the chairman’s job to pay for everything else out of his own pocket? When did this new rule come in?

Think it is a rule that is brought in after a defeat, win and we are a well run club, lose and we get all sorts of dross brought out by goons.

[TVC15]

We have been posting healthy profits of around £20m to £30m for the last few years.
These profits are after all operating costs, tax etc.
So we should have a pretty significant amount held in our reserves (that’s not the same as “cash in the bank” btw)

We will still have future transfer fees to pay for as these are invariably spread over a number of years. We might also have income to come from players sales which will also be spread - but what we currently owe will be greater than what we are owed.
Our wage bill could easily be as high as £90m this time.

Upshot is the picture is complicated - what fans see in terms of financial information is always 12 or 18 months out of date whereas the club will be doing the opposite and looking 2 or 3 years forward.
We have a lot of players contracts that are coming to an end in the next year or so - this could mean new players, transfer fees, signing on / agents fees etc.

There is also the obvious “dry powder” policy the club adopt around planning for potential future relegation.

[ClaretMov]

Beer mat estimated math's over 5 season's

Money from being in the prem tv and sponsorship 700 million

Wages playes, staff ect 300 million

Ground and training ground improvements around 60 million

Transfers in and out net spend around 90 million

Paying off loans ect 50 million

Lets say another 50 million for my underestimating for agent fees ect

A total of around a 550 million

Leaving 150 million

Yet the club says we have about 40 million in the bank, so who knows.

Ps please don't have a go about my figures its a massive guess I dont run a business but if you can do better lets here it.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I never run out of money for transfers on championship manager.

[ClaretMov]

Beer mat estimated math's over 5 season's

Money from being in the prem tv and sponsorship 700 million

Wages playes, staff ect 300 million (year 1 40 million then up 10 million each year to around 80 million to year 5)

Ground and training ground improvements around 60 million

Transfers in and out net spend around 90 million

Paying off loans ect 50 million

Lets say another 50 million for my underestimating for agent fees ect

A total of around a 550 million

Leaving 150 million

Yet the club says we have about 40 million in the bank, so who knows.

Ps please don't have a go about my figures its a massive guess I dont run a business but if you can do better lets here it.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Beer mat estimated math's over 5 season's

Money from being in the prem tv and sponsorship 700 million

Wages playes, staff ect 300 million (year 1 40 million then up 10 million each year to around 80 million to year 5)

Ground and training ground improvements around 60 million

Transfers in and out net spend around 90 million

Paying off loans ect 50 million

Lets say another 50 million for my underestimating for agent fees ect

A total of around a 550 million

Leaving 150 million

Yet the club says we have about 40 million in the bank, so who knows.

Ps please don't have a go about my figures its a massive guess I dont run a business but if you can do better lets here it.

Your 700 million is way out 1 of those 5 seasons was in the championship

[TVC15]

Money in bank is not the same as reserves.
My estimate would be we should have reserves of between £75m and £100m.

[ClaretMov]

We have been in the prem a total of six season's

And five of those have been in the last six season's

Read what I put again (over 5 season's not the last 5 season's) and if you look at the total 6 season's we have been in the prem we have taken out about 780 million and spent around 600 million

[claretonthecoast1882]

You probably need a fresh beer mat

[Clarets4me]

The best information we have is that we had £34,412,000 in the Bank at close of business on 30th June 2018 ....
As ever, the figure that day was merely a " snapshot ", we don't know that £25m hadn't been received the day before, or that £15m wasn't due to be paid out the day after ...
We do know that in that year, we made an after tax profit of £36,648,000 ... the figures for the year to 30/06/19 will probably be released during the first week in April ..... everything else is conjecture.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

We have been in the prem a total of six season's

And five of those have been in the last six season's

Read what I put again (over 5 season's not the last 5 season's) and if you look at the total 6 season's we have been in the prem we have taken out about 780 million and spent around 600 million

Sounds like accurate figures!?

[ClaretMov]

What ever we have in the bank it's a miles better run club than the horse fiddler's down the m65 and probably 90% of all other uk clubs

[Claretglass]

Thanks for some great responses; TVC estimates 75 to 100 Million, C&J estimates it costs nearly 100 million per year. My fag packet maths this morning tell me that a well run company will profit by 10% per year there fore we have 40 million which fits in nicely with Clarets4me comments although he has stated "everything else is conjecture" We really can not afford to be relegated !

[TVC15]

If we only have £40m in reserves that would not make sense given the profits we have been posting.
As per above cash at bank is not the same as our reserves.
I’d be surprised if we did not have some of our monies held in other financial instruments - money market, long term fixed products etc.

[Chester Perry]

Still not seen any statement from anyone at the club that says we have £40m in the bank - you may reasonably assume it given the annual growth in that area but you cannot without evidence state that the club have said that is what they have - too many taking it as a de-facto truth rather than the conjecture it appears to be

[TVC15]

Still not seen any statement from anyone at the club that says we have £40m in the bank - you may reasonably assume it given the annual growth in that area but you cannot without evidence state that the club have said that is what they have - too many taking it as a de-facto truth rather than the conjecture it appears to be

The whole thread is conjecture - and I’ll say it one last time !!....money in the bank as reported in the accounts is not the same as reserves - and it’s the latter that is important as that represents retained profits over a number of years...often referred to on here as the “dry powder store” !

[Paul Waine]

Here we go guys, the link to BFC's financial reports:

BURNLEY FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC COMPANY,LIMITED(THE) - Company number 00054222

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00054222

and the "top company:" BURNLEY FC HOLDINGS LIMITED - Company number 08335231

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08335231

Maybe we should have a sticky for the clubs financial reports. It's only a couple of weeks ago that we had a thread discussing shareholders. All shareholders are named with the individual shareholdings in the 16-Dec-2019 filing for BFC Holdings.

As stated, the latest accounts are up to 30-June-2018. The accounts for last season, 30-June-2019, will be filed in about 3 months time.

2017-18 report turnover £139million compared with £121m the previous year. Net profits were, respectively, £36m and £22m.

The balance sheet at 30-June-2018 shows net assets of £76.68m compared with £40m the previous year.

Page 2 of financial report discloses "Post Balance Sheet Events:" Hart, Vydra, Gibson signed on permanent playing contracts. Various existing players had contracts renewed or extended. Player registrations for Arfield, Marney, Chris Long and Tom Anderson disposed of.

[BOYSIE31]

We have been posting healthy profits of around £20m to £30m for the last few years.
These profits are after all operating costs, tax etc.
So we should have a pretty significant amount held in our reserves (that’s not the same as “cash in the bank” btw)

We will still have future transfer fees to pay for as these are invariably spread over a number of years. We might also have income to come from players sales which will also be spread - but what we currently owe will be greater than what we are owed.
Our wage bill could easily be as high as £90m this time.

Upshot is the picture is complicated - what fans see in terms of financial information is always 12 or 18 months out of date whereas the club will be doing the opposite and looking 2 or 3 years forward.
We have a lot of players contracts that are coming to an end in the next year or so - this could mean new players, transfer fees, signing on / agents fees etc.

There is also the obvious “dry powder” policy the club adopt around planning for potential future relegation.

Wage bill of 90 million but we cant play football with them - time to pack in

[LordBob]

... and whatever happened to the money we got for Jimmy Mac not to mention Willie Morgan ?

[Steve1956]

John Gayle has let himself go.

[tarkys_ears]

Less than 6 months wages in the bank.


Worrying when you see what were shelling out on...

[Iloveyoubrady]

I’d guess somewhere between 50-100 million, which isn’t a huge amount for a football club, but given our facilities have been upgraded, and the club is well run so if we dropped into the championship we would drastically reduce our wage bill, is enough for us to successfully rebound back into the prem in my opinion.

Also, you’ve got to consider player value as the likes of tarks, mcniel, Pope, Wood and Taylor are all worth in the region of 20 - 50 million, and there are many in the squad worth in the 10 million region. These are valuable players which would pour huge amount of money into the club if they were sold and would also be far too good for the championship if we were to get relegated and keep (some) of them.

[TVC15]

Less than 6 months wages in the bank.


Worrying when you see what were shelling out on...

Strange way of looking at it - only relevant if there was a risk our major source of income stopped. We are only paying those wages because the income is guaranteed (and I don’t mean our premier league status is guaranteed)

We are in a very good financial position.
No debt
No directors taking dividends or remuneration
Lots of cash in the bank
Even more held in reserves from consecutive years of excellent retained profits.

We might not be great on the pitch at the moment but financially you would struggle to find a club in the world of a similar size to Burnley in as strong a financial position and as well ran as we are.

[CrosspoolClarets]

How much money do we have?

“We” have none of it.

Whatever are the club’s assets (got to be near a quarter of a billion including players, the balance sheet surely understates them?), shareholders benefit from that, we only benefit temporarily if it is spent in a way that affects us. So far there is little evidence of that. We spend relatively minimal amounts on players, very little on the ground and only freeze season tickets rather than reduce them. We don’t even get a free beer or shirt once a season.

In all probability the club will end up being sold at some point and the new owners will inherit all that cash to do with as they see fit. The board and their families will make a lot of money out of it (as is their right).

That is why I prefer big ground improvements now, to give us decent facilities for the rest of our lives regardless of division. I suspect it will never happen.

[ClaretTony]

I was alerted to a post on this thread that was libelous. The post has been removed, as has the poster temporarily. What was more concerning was the number of people who opted to like the libelous post and the number who opted to reply to it. So please be very careful what you reply to.

[Chester Perry]

I was alerted to a post on this thread that was libelous. The post has been removed, as has the poster temporarily. What was more concerning was the number of people who opted to like the libelous post and the number who opted to reply to it. So please be very careful what you reply to.

Thought I was quite clear in my reply - which invited a retraction - possibly a better way for the offender in dealing with it

[Granny WeatherWax]

He’s just said incomings still unlikely given money available

[claretonthecoast1882]

He should have been removed ages ago and for good

[FactualFrank]

He’s just said incomings still unlikely given money available

Can only assume he's doing that to cover worse possible case scenario. In reality, he should have many many realistic targets.

[ksrclaret]

He should have been removed ages ago and for good

Why? Because you don't like him?

He usually makes good contributions to this board. An ill advised post has resulted in a temporary ban. The right action. Move on and stop being a baby.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Why? Because you don't like him?

He usually makes good contributions to this board. An ill advised post has resulted in a temporary ban. The right action. Move on and stop being a baby.

[Granny WeatherWax]

Can only assume he's doing that to cover worse possible case scenario. In reality, he should have many many realistic targets.

Without doubt there are players out there but perhaps when he talks about money he is on about about us not being able to afford premium cost, low risk British based players.

Mike Rigg anyone?

[Paul Waine]

I was alerted to a post on this thread that was libelous. The post has been removed, as has the poster temporarily. What was more concerning was the number of people who opted to like the libelous post and the number who opted to reply to it. So please be very careful what you reply to.

First time I've been aware of a post that got the poster suspended.

To all interested, remember the Annual Report and Accounts provide all the financial information you need concerning the club - except for the period 21 months after the year end date until the next set of accounts are published - 30-June-2018 to 31-March-2020 when the accounts up to 30-June-2019 are due to be published.

Any chance of a sticky that links to Companies House reports, CT? It may assist some of the posters.

UTC

[SGr]

Not as much as some think, but surely enough for 1 (ONE) signing.

[ewanrob]

Fag packet calc, 30 players in the squad on average of 30k a week is 47 million, please someone explain where the other 43 is going...I realise there is NI, agents fees etc..but if we have one player in there over 30k then I'm staggered. Very crude calc I know, but something doesn't stack up.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Fag packet calc, 30 players in the squad on average of 30k a week is 47 million, please someone explain where the other 43 is going...I realise there is NI, agents fees etc..but if we have one player in there over 30k then I'm staggered. Very crude calc I know, but something doesn't stack up.

You don't think we have players on more than 30k a week ?

You do also realise all staff get paid who work at the club rather than just the 1st team squad and running costs of a club ?

[ClaretAndJew]

Dyche is on 3 million a year on his own.

[ewanrob]

Average, i said average....and yes if course....a 100 staff on average of 50k a year is 5 million. Still dont tally up!

[TVC15]

Fag packet calc, 30 players in the squad on average of 30k a week is 47 million, please someone explain where the other 43 is going...I realise there is NI, agents fees etc..but if we have one player in there over 30k then I'm staggered. Very crude calc I know, but something doesn't stack up.

National insurance puts another few million on.
Then you have the manager on £3.5m a year.
All of the coaching staff.
Chief Executive
Mike Rigg
Football science / analytical staff
Etc etc
And then at last count I thought we had around 100 people working at the club ?

We also have a bonus structure related to performance and where we finish in the table etc - this accounts for around £15m to £20m a year (£16m I think last time I remember it in the accounts)

There is nothing that does not stack up.
It’s still one of the lowest wage bills in the league

[claretonthecoast1882]

Average, i said average....and yes if course....a 100 staff on average of 50k a year is 5 million. Still dont tally up!

."but if we have one player in there over 30k then I'm staggered"

those are your own words