The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

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Blackrod
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Blackrod » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:42 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 am
You’re right and that’s one of the elements of progression needed, you cannot centralise your sales to a small market town in Lancashire. If you do persist with this model at least ensure the website and service is exemplary, which it isn’t.

The shirt is symbolic of the club and so needs to be in competition with all those shirts available in the international markets through a number of providers.
Correct. The board rigidly stick to its a local club for local people. It is but is also potentially much more than that. We are operating in the biggest league in the world. Let’s try and capitalise on this and at least be a little forward thinking.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:43 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:16 pm
Here's a summary of Brentford, with their better strategy put 2018.

http://financialfootballnews.com/brentf ... -finances/

Highlights

No profitable year in the previous 7
No promotion in the previous 7 years
Costs (wages) have increased 4 fold in the last 7 years
Brentford's net debt grew from £8m to £71m in the years unto 2018.

Meanwhile - here's Burnley's, with their poor strategy

http://financialfootballnews.com/category/burnley/

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
Comparing finances of a PL club to a side in the Championship is incredibly silly though. You are also failing to consider assets Brentford have, players are sellable assets and the cost of their squad would exceed to debt you mentioned.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by DCWat » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:43 pm

The element of their strategy that interests me, is that they can identify and attract players. I don’t give a flying hoot about other elements of their strategy.

The fact remains that decent players are out there and are available, if you have the wherewithal to find them.

There is an in between in all of this as opposed to this apparent one way or the other, which appears to be prevalent on here.

We can and should be doing better in the windows. To think we can’t and should just settle for what we have, is for me at least, a recipe for relegation.

We’ve done brilliantly but let’s not just accept the inevitable.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:46 pm

Dyche’s comments after the game are worrying. JBG injured hamstring again albeit awaiting tests, Wood taken off due to hamstring issue , Barnes groin, we really do need to get some players in.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by ewanrob » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:12 pm

David Brookes, Dan James, James Maddison for example, I'd never heard of them before there transfers and subsequent appearances....we just dont tap into the lower leagues like others do. I'm still shocked at our wage bill given the players we have, we have done exceptionally well there is no doubting that...but I feel like the club dont have the appetite for eating at the top table. And you know, i sort of get that...its like going out with your best mates who are all on 100k a year, and standing at the back by the door when it's your round as you enter a ridiculously expensive wine bar.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Royboyclaret » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:42 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:12 pm
David Brookes, Dan James, James Maddison for example, I'd never heard of them before there transfers and subsequent appearances....we just dont tap into the lower leagues like others do. I'm still shocked at our wage bill given the players we have, we have done exceptionally well there is no doubting that...but I feel like the club dont have the appetite for eating at the top table. And you know, i sort of get that...its like going out with your best mates who are all on 100k a year, and standing at the back by the door when it's your round as you enter a ridiculously expensive wine bar.
Lack of appetite to remain at the top table is, in my opinion, solely down to the runaway train that has become our Wage bill. When £81.6 million was first revealed in our last set of accounts shock waves reverberated around the Boardroom walls as a figure that was simply not acceptable for us going forward. From that moment some of our Board, perhaps not all, have been seriously uncomfortable with the situation which has resulted in a real reluctance to venture into the transfer market in the last four windows to purchase players good enough to go straight into the first team. Even with a record Income in that same financial year of £139 million and a Profit of £36 million, without the profit on sale of Keane and Gray of over £30 million we would barely have made an Operating Profit.

The suspicion is that a Wage bill of £81.6 million cannot be tolerated at Burnley and hence we read those kind of programme notes against Villa from our Chairman Mr. Garlick. We're unlikely ever again to see a figure so high, even in the next set of accounts to Jun'19 when the incentive bonuses paid to players will be significantly lower.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:56 pm

if they really want to "stretch the structure" sell up and let people with the capability move in.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:01 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:42 pm
Lack of appetite to remain at the top table is, in my opinion, solely down to the runaway train that has become our Wage bill. When £81.6 million was first revealed in our last set of accounts shock waves reverberated around the Boardroom walls as a figure that was simply not acceptable for us going forward. From that moment some of our Board, perhaps not all, have been seriously uncomfortable with the situation which has resulted in a real reluctance to venture into the transfer market in the last four windows to purchase players good enough to go straight into the first team. Even with a record Income in that same financial year of £139 million and a Profit of £36 million, without the profit on sale of Keane and Gray of over £30 million we would barely have made an Operating Profit.

The suspicion is that a Wage bill of £81.6 million cannot be tolerated at Burnley and hence we read those kind of programme notes against Villa from our Chairman Mr. Garlick. We're unlikely ever again to see a figure so high, even in the next set of accounts to Jun'19 when the incentive bonuses paid to players will be significantly lower.
Is that naivety? Like when they promised free season tickets not expecting to give them away?

Its worrying they had no idea what our wage bill was and even more worrying that they think a sound business plan is no longer investing in the first team.

Perhaps it wouldve been more palatable had we not spent £30m plus wages on two players the manager doesnt play.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Royboyclaret » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:02 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:56 pm
if they really want to "stretch the structure" sell up and let people with the capability move in.
Wile........That's the reason I offered an open-mind solution to your similar thread of a few days ago. To avoid repetition, perhaps a link to that thread might now be appropriate. To be fair to Cricketfieldclarets he offered a strong and compelling argument for outside investment, although I still suspect our Board would resist such a move very strongly.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:11 pm

yes, I understand Royboy, but it just seemed as pertinent to shove my remark on here, as it seemed relevant given it is specifically a post from the board itself that's being debated.
I genuinely do admire what has been achieved over the years by well intentioned people at Burnley, but there does appear to be a shortsightedness issue if they are sincere about progressing the football club at the highest level. Fans deserve the best surely ?
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:23 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:13 pm
What’s it worth as a small prem league club? How much would you spend, how much would you invest each year and what % ROI would you want?
Why do you think investors want a ROI? If it was easy to do that in the Premier League, then why are only Burnley being touted as a strong business model?

I've said this before and i'll say it again, this isn't a joke. Most billionaires will invest in Premier League clubs as an easy way to launder dirty money by buying and selling players and getting a return on TV money.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:41 am

Steddyman wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:23 am
Why do you think investors want a ROI? If it was easy to do that in the Premier League, then why are only Burnley being touted as a strong business model?

I've said this before and i'll say it again, this isn't a joke. Most billionaires will invest in Premier League clubs as an easy way to launder dirty money by buying and selling players and getting a return on TV money.
Because that’s what investors do? Burnley barley make an operating profit.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:46 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:41 am
Because that’s what investors do? Burnley barley make an operating profit.
They don't need a profit if money laundering. They are happy to convert £100 million of dirty money into £50 million of clean money.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 am

Some interesting comments from Royboy as ever. It really does highlight what too much money has done to the game.

When we were in the championship struggling to make ends meet, we thought ‘boy, if we can just scrape a promotion to the promised land, all worries will be over, we’ll be set up for the next ten years’. Well we did that, and the money quickly ran out.

Then after another spell in the championship, again struggling to make ends meet after the parachute payments ended, we thought ‘boy, if we could just scrape another miracle promotion, that’ll get us out of the hole’. Well we did again, and we were a little wiser with our spending.

We were of course relegated again, and we thought ‘boy, if we can get back up straight away, and this time stay there for a while, this club really will be set up for a long long time’. Well we did, and the money is running out again. The level of spending on wages needed to stay at the big table is far too much for a club like ours.

So we think, ‘right, if we can get relegated, our wage bill will come right down and that will solve things’. Problem is, our income will also come right down, and soon we’ll be struggling to make ends meet in the championship again.

There doesn’t appear to be a way in which a club like ours can survive sustainably anymore. A really sad indictment of what money has done. The best we can probably hope for is to become a championship club, using our academy paid for by our PL spell to produce players and sell them on for huge profits, keeping our wage bill relatively low.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:05 am

How can our wage bill be so high? our players can barely pass a football. I think we need a major clear out but seemingly don’t have the cash available to do so. Ageing assets losing value as the days go by, big signings not getting game time, injury prone wide players and players stealing a living.

Wells and Hendrick contracts running out, that’s £20m+ frittered away if they don’t re sign. Brady and Lennon (£20m+) not good enough, Vydra and Gibson deemed not good enough (£30m).

Then we have Gudmundsson who is likely one of our highest earners and can’t stay fit or contribute anything consistently.

Hart likely on a big wage and contributes nothing.

We need a right back but we have two average ones already, who’s gonna take them off us?

Drinkwater has gone, needs replacing. Cork isn’t good enough anymore imo.

The problem is moving out these players on high wages Championship teams probably won’t pay and they’re not good enough for the Pl teams. Btw the figures I posted above are just estimates of transfer fee, wages and agent fees combined.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by superdimitri » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:24 am

There's just no chance we can't afford to make a couple of good signings. Even if we couldn't afford it we could still take on loans.

To me this Garlick is doing one of three things.

1. Trying to stop fans keeping a negative opinion of him or Dyche by putting things into perspective.
2. Bluffing to other clubs so we can get more value in the transfer market.
Or
3. Just being a cheap ******* and wanting to sign players for less in the summer.

I suspect it's the last. And by summer I mean Autumn after everyone else's business is concluded.

Our dip in form is no doubt a factor because squad harmony has declined. The same happened last year when Heaton wasn't playing. There's one or two who aren't happy with play time. So my guess is it there's any signings by us it will be on the premise of at least one leaving.

Hendrick will already be able to sign a bosman with another club and if he does we will at least be given time to sort out a replacement. I suspect the main factor negotiating his deal will be the fact he wants to play a key role in his natural position and who can blame him.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:53 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:05 am
How can our wage bill be so high? our players can barely pass a football. I think we need a major clear out but seemingly don’t have the cash available to do so. Ageing assets losing value as the days go by, big signings not getting game time, injury prone wide players and players stealing a living.

Wells and Hendrick contracts running out, that’s £20m+ frittered away if they don’t re sign. Brady and Lennon (£20m+) not good enough, Vydra and Gibson deemed not good enough (£30m).

Then we have Gudmundsson who is likely one of our highest earners and can’t stay fit or contribute anything consistently.

Hart likely on a big wage and contributes nothing.

We need a right back but we have two average ones already, who’s gonna take them off us?

Drinkwater has gone, needs replacing. Cork isn’t good enough anymore imo.

The problem is moving out these players on high wages Championship teams probably won’t pay and they’re not good enough for the Pl teams. Btw the figures I posted above are just estimates of transfer fee, wages and agent fees combined.
That's a large part of the reason why where we are now, the situation the valid points you've raised as been allowed to develop, on a longetivity basis it's mismanagement. It's all good & well at first but it eventually catches up with you especially with not blending the squad better in terms of age & a wage struture in apparent disarray.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:57 am

There is probably only one way out of this and it will put our position in the Prem at risk but this is where Sean’s skills will have to save us points wise. People who are almost out of contract will have to accept little or no financial increase in their next contract. New signings will have to come in at the lower end of our pay rates and we will have to promote one or two from the academy. Hopefully we will get another season or two from McNeill and increase his sale value. Otherwise it’s a case of judging when his value will be at it’s highest, ie selling at the optimum time. We do need to have a budget that allows an operating profit with no sales or no more than one sale, each financial year.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Father Jack » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:13 am

Royboyclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:42 pm
From that moment some of our Board, perhaps not all, have been seriously uncomfortable with the situation which has resulted in a real reluctance to venture into the transfer market in the last four windows to purchase players good enough to go straight into the first team.
So we then take the following actions:
Block any new signings who are even more expensive (wages).
Block any contract renewals which take our wages above current levels (Hendrick)
Fail to upskill our overseas scouting to the level that we’re prepared to use it for signings.

Outcome = paralysis and accelerated decline in a league that doesn’t stand still.

Given its increasingly clear that staying up this year would only delaying the inevitable for a very short period of time, then I’m increasingly favouring starting the rebuild in the championship ASAP. feels like the board have come to the same conclusion.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:22 am

With Hart, Bardsley, Lennon, Hendrick and Wells out of contract this summer it frees up some wages. I'm sure we could get money for Gibson and Vydra as well. I'm not sure Dyche will really like such a big turnaround in players but I'm not sure we have a choice.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:23 am

There does seem to be an underestimation of what Premier League players earn (wages+bonus+fees). A £20m player isn’t going to be on £20k a week it will be closer to ££70k and then the existing players who think they are worth £20m want the same which is why our wage bill is over £80m.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:55 am

The above predicted Board mindset (futility) makes no sense. They aren’t master businessmen, that is clear, but they are still too clever to think that.

Dyche should be the perfect manager to give them an edge in the sense that he enjoys a regular first XI, playing with supreme fitness, so we don’t need 25 players on £70k a week, we need 11, which with bonuses etc would be about £50m.

The issue is that we shouldn’t be spending £30m and no doubt big wages on bench warmers. We need capable emergency stand-ins, but they should not be on £70k. I don’t buy this thing that nobody decent will come and sit on the bench for less than that.

If there has been alarm at wage levels this is not due to us being “little old Burnley” it is due to wasteful spending. Dyche has bought players for the positions where he tends to have highly fit first choices so his signings won’t get a look in (Pope, Mee and Cork all have strong fitness records if you excuse Pope’s shoulder).

We should therefore be offloading Hart, Gibson, Vydra and anyone else on big wages not playing. Deputies should be players like Bardsley, Pieters, Long, Peacock Farrell, Cork, Barnes, Brady - that’s every position on the pitch given some can play in two roles and I wouldn’t expect any of that bunch to break the bank unlike a big £15m-£20m signing.

That would give the club the freedom to buy a first choice big signing in 2-3 positions, sorely needed.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:27 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:15 pm
You’re right it’s a lot of shirts, and we’re not Liverpool or Juventus. Opening up a new market is worth the investment, it’s not just shirt sales. You create more secondary traffic for your sponsors, you generate site visits and clicks. You diversify your fan base to your Include a global audience. Through this you’re now more attractive to sponsors, investment and so on.
Generating clicks worth around £0.03 is about as big as sponsorships gets for us, why do you think our biggest deal, our shirt sponsor, is a random eastern betting company no one has heard of.
You can say businessy things like 'drive secondary traffic' & global audience whilst pointing at the super club's revenue streams.
No one wants to be Burnley's official lazer printer partner.
But that not the clubs fault.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Spijed » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:50 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:53 am
That's a large part of the reason why where we are now, the situation the valid points you've raised as been allowed to develop, on a longetivity basis it's mismanagement. It's all good & well at first but it eventually catches up with you especially with not blending the squad better in terms of age & a wage struture in apparent disarray.
To be fair when people use the word mismanagement it implies there are actually perfectly run football clubs else where.

Something that is an impossibility in this day and age.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:58 am

Spijed wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:50 am
To be fair when people use the word mismanagement it implies there are actually perfectly run football clubs else where.

Something that is an impossibility in this day and age.
Far & few between I agree & varying levels of mismanagement, Leicester seem to be well managed despite the investment. How certain people define the criteria of being perfectly well run may differ.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:58 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:27 am
Generating clicks worth around £0.03 is about as big as sponsorships gets for us, why do you think our biggest deal, our shirt sponsor, is a random eastern betting company no one has heard of.
You can say businessy things like 'drive secondary traffic' & global audience whilst pointing at the super club's revenue streams.
No one wants to be Burnley's official lazer printer partner.
But that not the clubs fault.
You’re thinking using the current model and offer. I’m suggesting we as a club need to expand into markets we don’t currently operate in.

You can do that through partnerships, you can do that via player purchases or you can do it via exposure during visits.

Burnley FC is a brand, there isn’t enough revenue in East Lancashire to sustain it should the worst happen. It requires the brand to be built and expanded.

There’s a big old world out there
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:59 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:57 am
There is probably only one way out of this and it will put our position in the Prem at risk but this is where Sean’s skills will have to save us points wise. People who are almost out of contract will have to accept little or no financial increase in their next contract. New signings will have to come in at the lower end of our pay rates and we will have to promote one or two from the academy. Hopefully we will get another season or two from McNeill and increase his sale value. Otherwise it’s a case of judging when his value will be at it’s highest, ie selling at the optimum time. We do need to have a budget that allows an operating profit with no sales or no more than one sale, each financial year.
Why do we need an operating profit?

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:59 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:39 pm
You’re right and that’s one of the elements of progression needed, you cannot centralise your sales to a small market town in Lancashire. If you do persist with this model at least ensure the website and service is exemplary, which it isn’t.

The shirt is symbolic of the club and so needs to be in competition with all those shirts available in the international markets through a number of providers.
So let's say I live in Jakarta and really want a Burnley shirt. I can order it directly from the Claret Store which ships to over 200 countries, all money goes to the club. That's called drop shipping and it's quite big these days.

But you think instead we should be shipping pallets of shirts to every corner of the world to gather dust, as a symbol of our clubs global outlook? Sounds like a perfect way for the club to waste a ton of money.
Why are you not running the clubs commercial strategy with your global outlook to develop advanced synergistic multi leveled strategies for the global marketplace :roll: :roll:

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:01 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:58 am
You can do that through partnerships, you can do that via player purchases or you can do it via exposure during visits.
So your pointing at Liverpool and Barcelona and saying 'lets do what they do'. How has no one at the club thought of that?

Generally you need massive success on the pitch first.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:07 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:59 am
So let's say I live in Jakarta and really want a Burnley shirt. I can order it directly from the Claret Store which ships to over 200 countries, all money goes to the club. That's called drop shipping and it's quite big these days.

But you think instead we should be shipping pallets of shirts to every corner of the world to gather dust, as a symbol of our clubs global outlook? Sounds like a perfect way for the club to waste a ton of money.
Why are you not running the clubs commercial strategy with your global outlook to develop advanced synergistic multi leveled strategies for the global marketplace :roll: :roll:
You’re nice aren’t you.

It’s not about getting the shirt. It’s about seeing it in context, amongst other shirts. It’s giving the brand exposure in context, not just on media highlights but at games, taking part in pre season comps abroad.

I’d love to have input into the business, I’d love to see the strategic and operational planning. It all points to either sale prep or investment prep.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:10 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:01 am
So your pointing at Liverpool and Barcelona and saying 'lets do what they do'. How has no one at the club thought of that?

Generally you need massive success on the pitch first.
No I’m looking at Wolves, West Ham, Everton as examples. I am hoping for Leicester.

I’ve not once suggested that we are comparable to Liverpool and the elites, I’m suggesting we look at what’s successful and we look to replicate that on a scaled approach.

BFC is a sound business, it’s brilliantly run, but for it to continue to exist at the level we are at now it needs to build a new underlying support plan to sustain itself.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:19 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:10 am
No I’m looking at Wolves, West Ham, Everton as examples. I am hoping for Leicester.
I’ve not once suggested that we are comparable to Liverpool and the elites, I’m suggesting we look at what’s successful and we look to replicate that on a scaled approach.
I wonder how the teams owned by 复星国际有限公司, اردوان فرهاد ﻣﺸﻴﺮى and กลุ่มบริษัท คิง เพาเวอร์ อินเตอร์เนชันแนล got their leg up in the international markets...

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:22 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:19 am
I wonder how the teams owned by 复星国际有限公司, اردوان فرهاد ﻣﺸﻴﺮى and กลุ่มบริษัท คิง เพาเวอร์ อินเตอร์เนชันแนล got their leg up in the international markets...
Exactly, they made the transition we now need to make. You’ve made my point wonderfully.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:24 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:22 am
Exactly, they made the transition we now need to make. You’ve made my point wonderfully.
Sorry up until now I'd just read a lot of business word salad. I didn't realize your key point was; "We need to sell to a large overseas owner."

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:44 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:24 am
Sorry up until now I'd just read a lot of business word salad. I didn't realize your key point was; "We need to sell to a large overseas owner."
Jesus, you’re obnoxious. You certainly picked your username well. Enjoy your victory.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 am

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:44 am
Jesus, you’re obnoxious. You certainly picked your username well. Enjoy your victory.
Well you started by bashing the club for not making all the [insert business world salad here] international deals. But eventually we got round to you saying just sell up to a global billionaire.
Excuse me for calling out BS when I read it.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:49 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:05 am
How can our wage bill be so high? our players can barely pass a football. I think we need a major clear out but seemingly don’t have the cash available to do so. Ageing assets losing value as the days go by, big signings not getting game time, injury prone wide players and players stealing a living.

Wells and Hendrick contracts running out, that’s £20m+ frittered away if they don’t re sign. Brady and Lennon (£20m+) not good enough, Vydra and Gibson deemed not good enough (£30m).

Then we have Gudmundsson who is likely one of our highest earners and can’t stay fit or contribute anything consistently.

Hart likely on a big wage and contributes nothing.

We need a right back but we have two average ones already, who’s gonna take them off us?

Drinkwater has gone, needs replacing. Cork isn’t good enough anymore imo.

The problem is moving out these players on high wages Championship teams probably won’t pay and they’re not good enough for the Pl teams. Btw the figures I posted above are just estimates of transfer fee, wages and agent fees combined.
You make very valid observations,and that's the big worry if we drop to the Championship,we're carrying a lot of deadwood that will prove virtually impossible to ship out,if we're not careful this time next year we could find ourselves in a similar place to Stoke,with a lot of big earners that have lost their hunger,but who are quite happy to collect their large pay packets,if we can somehow scramble over the survival line this season,this coming summer offers the club a chance to clear the decks,the following are ooc soon.

Bardsley,Hart,Hendrick,Legzdins,and Lennon,of that quintet only Hendrick and Bardsley at a push could be considered regular 1st teamers,the others have barely played in the past year,and Hart & Lennon will i suspect be among our top earners,so if we can get them off the books this could free up funds to hopefully go towards new 1st team signings(i know,i know) but you have to try and be optimistic,the DD experiment didn't work for various reasons,but at least we were able to return to sender with him,Brady's also ooc this summer,but the club has a one-year option,personally i wouldn't trigger that,he's a walking sicknote,and we've got JBG to keep the medics busy with all his niggles,Vydra and Gibson if we drop to the Championship,could play a big role in a promotion push,at that level both are proven,and are still young enough to develop further,however if we're still a PL team i'd consider letting both move on for their own sakes,they need to be playing regular football at this stage of their careers.

Whatever the outcome at the end of this season this summer is our biggest for a good few years,we desperately need to introduce youth & creativity,as the whole club is in danger of becoming stale,all the above is due to poor recruitment during the last 4 windows,we either need to target players ready for the first XI,or target lower league talent that we can develop,the current straztegy is leading to an ageing squad of journeyman(and that's the road Stoke went down,and it eneded in tears for them,we don't want to go the same way.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:19 pm

July 2018 was our biggest transfer window in our history and we did the square root of **** all. Even if we scrape it this season, I don't expect anything in the summer to happen. Rabbits and headlights spring to mind.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:29 pm

I've always thought, look at where Dyche got us on a shoestring, imagine what he could do with a decent budget?

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:32 pm

The sound business model of recent years has gone off course.
Wages very high with an aged squad.

We have 4 players in Tarky, Pope, Taylor and McNeil who could make decent profits but are probably irreplaceable at the moment.

Having 20 or so players in the squad that won't attract much money or less than we paid needs addressing.

But a lot of clubs are after the young players, so they have become more expensive and more of a gamble.

Plus the manager prefers the experienced players

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:39 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:42 pm
Lack of appetite to remain at the top table is, in my opinion, solely down to the runaway train that has become our Wage bill. When £81.6 million was first revealed in our last set of accounts shock waves reverberated around the Boardroom walls as a figure that was simply not acceptable for us going forward. From that moment some of our Board, perhaps not all, have been seriously uncomfortable with the situation which has resulted in a real reluctance to venture into the transfer market in the last four windows to purchase players good enough to go straight into the first team. Even with a record Income in that same financial year of £139 million and a Profit of £36 million, without the profit on sale of Keane and Gray of over £30 million we would barely have made an Operating Profit.

The suspicion is that a Wage bill of £81.6 million cannot be tolerated at Burnley and hence we read those kind of programme notes against Villa from our Chairman Mr. Garlick. We're unlikely ever again to see a figure so high, even in the next set of accounts to Jun'19 when the incentive bonuses paid to players will be significantly lower.
I don’t really buy that analysis/excuse. As you say, that wage bill includes a large element of bonuses as a result of us finishing 7th, and still only represents about 60% of revenue - well below the level most football clubs operate at. Hell, about a quarter of it would have been covered by the “merit payment” earned from finishing 7th rather than 17th!

I remember Garlick once saying that we have the most performance-related pay structure in the division (which makes sense for a club like ours) so to suggest that we will be saddled with an £80m wage bill is just plain wrong. I also imagine that most of our players will have relegation clauses in their contracts, and parachute payments exist to give relegated clubs the time to manage their wage bills down after relegation.

Granted, a lot of players may not be attracted to such a heavily incentivised pay structure, but they’re probably not the kind of players we want anyway. There must be plenty of talented and hungry young players out there who, like Charlie Taylor for example, will jump at the chance without wrecking the wage structure.

One thing is for sure. If you stand still in this league, you go backwards. This has been happening to us for best part of two years if truth be told. I retain faith in SD to turn this around again, but if we rely on him working miracles in ever more constrained circumstances, our luck will run out - if not this season, then next.

And if we don’t spend our money on players, what the hell are we going to spend it on?

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:45 pm

How much is our bench worth £35m? Yes a Burnley FC bench is worth around £35m. And the majority of that £35m doesn't get a game That's a lot of money spunked no matter which way you look at it.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:51 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:45 pm
How much is our bench worth £35m? Yes a Burnley FC bench is worth around £35m. And the majority of that £35m doesn't get a game That's a lot of money spunked no matter which way you look at it.
You do need a squad. £35m for frontline cover is peanuts in the PL.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:53 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:51 pm
You do need a squad. £35m for frontline cover is peanuts in the PL.
Yes you need a squad but £35m worth of players sho never get on and are hardly used as cover. Its peanuts to most other clubs but we aren't talking about them. We are talking about Burnley and we are talking about signing players/players that have signed that have been a waste of money. We cant afford to spunk that sort of money away, hence the predicament we find ourselves in now.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:00 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:45 pm
How much is our bench worth £35m? Yes a Burnley FC bench is worth around £35m. And the majority of that £35m doesn't get a game That's a lot of money spunked no matter which way you look at it.
Plus wages to pay for collecting splinters in their a**es,obviously we need a squad,the problem is either Sean doesn't trust them to replace the regulars,or they're not up to the task,either way it puts a lot of onus on the same players week in,week out,and when they don't perform to their maximum,and most players rarely do over a season,they'll always have peaks and troughs,we don't have anybody capable of impacting the game from the bench,Jay Rod's probably the only one who has done that this season,and there's every chance he'll be starting in our upcoming games.

As has been repeatedly pointed out this is due to numerous poor transfer windows,and now the chicken's are coming home to roost,which they were bound to sooner or later.
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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:00 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:45 pm
How much is our bench worth £35m? Yes a Burnley FC bench is worth around £35m. And the majority of that £35m doesn't get a game That's a lot of money spunked no matter which way you look at it.
So an average of £5million a player is spunking money now...
Perhaps we should spend a max of 500k per bench player, then we can really complain that Dyche has no plan B.

It really is damned if you do, damned if you don't around here.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:01 pm

We need better recruitment.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:02 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:00 pm
Plus wages to pay for collecting splinters in their a**es,obviously we need a squad,the problem is either Sean doesn't trust them to replace the regulars,or they're not up to the task,either way it puts a lot of onus on the same players week in,week out,and when they don't perform to their maximum,and most players rarely do over a season,they'll always have peaks and troughs,we don't have anybody capable of impacting the game from the bench,Jay Rod's probably the only one who has done that this season,and there's every chance he'll be starting in our upcoming games.

As has been repeatedly pointed out this is due to numerous poor transfer windows,and now the chicken's are coming home to roost,which they were bound to sooner or later.
I'm glad someone understands it.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:00 pm
So an average of £5million a player is spunking money now...
Perhaps we should spend a max of 500k per bench player, then we can really complain that Dyche has no plan B.

It really is damned if you do, damned if you don't around here.

You're missing my point well done.

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Re: The chairman’s comments on the transfer situation

Post by WestMidsClaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:07 pm

You cannot average it out like that in football 🤣🤣

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