Erik Pieters

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Down_Rover
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Erik Pieters

Post by Down_Rover » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:33 pm

Miles ahead of Taylor in terms of assists this season, now ahead of him in the scoring charts

Comments please

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Bosscat » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:34 pm

I thought Taylor had an assist v Villa ;)

Thought it was funny when the Stadium announcer gave Pieters goal to Hendrick

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:36 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:34 pm
I thought Taylor had an assist v Villa ;)

Thought it was funny when the Stadium announcer gave Pieters goal to Hendrick
And when Jeff scored soon after he must have thought he was on a hat trick :D
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:37 pm

One of those assists was a clearance that landed luckily at Barnes' feet.

Nothing against Pieters but Taylor is right to be first choice.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by taio » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:39 pm

Good signing and back up. But Taylor is better.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by wilks_bfc » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:39 pm

Tbh I thought they worked well together in the second half

Maybe this is the solution for those that want Dwight to play more centrally

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Down_Rover » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:44 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:37 pm
One of those assists was a clearance that landed luckily at Barnes' feet.

Nothing against Pieters but Taylor is right to be first choice.
Bit harsh re the assist but ‘nothing against Pieters’ is as good as it gets for Erik

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 pm

Good goal.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 pm

I think that arrangement today, in the second half, between Pieters and Taylor was a rehearsal for a future formation. As you say, perhaps for McNeill to play more centrally.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:54 pm

Quality goal and hes been decent enough every game. More than good enough squad player for now.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm

Thing is, for all that Taylor looks good going forward, his final ball is seldom threatening, whereas the more direct approach, (generally getting the ball in the box quicker) by Pieters has been more dangerous and has brought more assists
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm

Charlie Taylor is a huge level above pieters. Trippier got more assists for spurs than walker, and a lot more, and nobody debates the better player there.
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by bobinho » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:46 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Charlie Taylor is a huge level above pieters. Trippier got more assists for spurs than walker, and a lot more, and nobody debates the better player there.
Absolutely mate...

Tripps was waaaaaay better. ;) :lol:

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:47 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Charlie Taylor is a huge level above pieters. Trippier got more assists for spurs than walker, and a lot more, and nobody debates the better player there.
Yes, but that's because Walker is by far the better defender, and the first role of a full-back is to defend. I'm not convinced that Taylor is so much a better defender than Pieters. I think that most fans would put Taylor ahead of Pieters, but to say that he is a "huge level" above is a gross exaggeration (IMO).

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:48 pm

He did alright today Pieters and does look better than Taylor going forward. Pity we can’t create a hybrid of them !! Taylor no1 for me though without question.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:57 pm

Pieters was neat and tidy as a left sided midfield player on second half today. Whether that was a rehearsal for the premier league or just to accommodate today’s team time will tell.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:58 pm

Played very well today. Was a shock to see him running out in the left wing position second half, mind.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:59 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:41 pm
Thing is, for all that Taylor looks good going forward, his final ball is seldom threatening, whereas the more direct approach, (generally getting the ball in the box quicker) by Pieters has been more dangerous and has brought more assists
Spot on

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:18 pm

Not even up for debate - Taylor is much much better
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by ashtonlongsider » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:56 pm

No contest, Taylor is one of our prized assets and operates on a different level to Pieters imo.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by rufus lumley » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:07 pm

Pieters has played in the Champions League that makes him ahead of Taylor. Hart must play instead of Pope for the same reason and Lennon is first on the team sheet every game.We need a couple more players with CL experience and we will be pushing for the Europa League playoffs again.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by BOYSIE31 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:04 pm

He was on the left as nobody else left to play there

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hibsclaret » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:43 pm

Nice to see a full back capable of scoring a goal...and a great one at that....

Bardsley has been unlucky with a couple of shots recently but beyond that we have next to no chance of getting goals from the full backs....usually.

Well done Erik.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:16 am

Vintage Alex Elder.Alex hit a few like this in his time too

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Quicknick » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:00 am

rufus lumley wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:07 pm
Pieters has played in the Champions League that makes him ahead of Taylor. Hart must play instead of Pope for the same reason and Lennon is first on the team sheet every game.We need a couple more players with CL experience and we will be pushing for the Europa League playoffs again.
Was that supposed to be ironic?

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:48 am

One of the key things for me is that Dwight doesn't look as good when Pieters is playing. Not sure why that is, but it seems to stand out that he combines very well with Taylor. I also think Pieters is more prone to mistakes on the defensive side.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:16 am

I think that might be in your head burnleymik. From my observations, only an opinion, the number of defensive mistakes is very similar. Imagine the reaction on here if Pieters had made an error like Charlie did against Man U. The likelihood of mistakes is probably more than likely to be down to the quality of the opposition on any given day.
Similarly I’ve not noticed any dip from Mc Neill when Erik plays. I just think that those who prefer Charlie T try to firm up their argument by looking for an additional back-up fact, that is nothing more than an unfounded opinion. Both play a similar game, at times getting ahead of Dwight. In my opinion Erik leads on experience/know how and Charlie leads on potential to improve further.
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:16 am
I think that might be in your head burnleymik. From my observations, only an opinion, the number of defensive mistakes is very similar. Imagine the reaction on here if Pieters had made an error like Charlie did against Man U. The likelihood of mistakes is probably more than likely to be down to the quality of the opposition on any given day.
Similarly I’ve not noticed any dip from Mc Neill when Erik plays. I just think that those who prefer Charlie T try to firm up their argument by looking for an additional back-up fact, that is nothing more than an unfounded opinion. Both play a similar game, at times getting ahead of Dwight. In my opinion Erik leads on experience/know how and Charlie leads on potential to improve further.
I think the ratings threads might tell you all you need to know. Of course it's all opinion, but when so many people are recognising the same things there is more to it than just a single opinion.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:52 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am
I think the ratings threads might tell you all you need to know. Of course it's all opinion, but when so many people are recognising the same things there is more to it than just a single opinion.
I think that the player ratings are a poor guide. Some people appear to allocate their marks even before kick-off, with the usual suspects being the scapegoats, and certain players being beyond criticism.
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:16 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:52 pm
I think that the player ratings are a poor guide. Some people appear to allocate their marks even before kick-off, with the usual suspects being the scapegoats, and certain players being beyond criticism.
I disagree, most people have no axe to grind and even when they do it is usually kept in perspective with the performance on the pitch. Not often (ever?) we see someone who had a MOM performance to most people getting 4's and 5's, so I think it does, on average, paint a fairly accurate picture of the player's performance in the previous match.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:18 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:48 am
One of the key things for me is that Dwight doesn't look as good when Pieters is playing. Not sure why that is, but it seems to stand out that he combines very well with Taylor. I also think Pieters is more prone to mistakes on the defensive side.
People keep saying this. But McNeil (or Taylor) haven't had an assist or goal since Pieters was dropped

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:19 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am
I think the ratings threads might tell you all you need to know. Of course it's all opinion, but when so many people are recognising the same things there is more to it than just a single opinion.
The stats speak higher volumes.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:29 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:18 pm
People keep saying this. But McNeil (or Taylor) haven't had an assist or goal since Pieters was dropped

Not through lack of trying, how many balls have been put into the box, by both players? It's hard to say whether that is a lack of quality of our finishing (Wood and Jayrod have both missed sitters that I can remember off the top of my head) or whether that is genuinely poor deliveries.

There are too many variables to get an accurate picture, but I think judging by the best games for McNeil, they have been when Taylor has been the man behind him.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:57 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:29 pm

There are too many variables to get an accurate picture, but I think judging by the best games for McNeil, they have been when Taylor has been the man behind him.
So:

The game at Spurs when McNeil is by far our best player, we lose 5 nil but McNeil is in front of Pieters.
The game at Everton when McNeil makes a mistake to cost us the game and we create absolutely nothing, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game at Bournemouth when we create one chance all game via the substitutes and McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Villa at home, one shot on target all game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Man U, we have one shot on target all game, Taylor assists the key goal that loses us the game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Newcastle where we at least have 4 shots on target and keep a good clean sheet for a nice win, McNeil is playing with Pieters.

Basically the last 6 games show absolutely no evidence of McNeil playing better with Taylor, in fact you could argue evidence to the contrary....

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:01 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:57 pm
So:

The game at Spurs when McNeil is by far our best player, we lose 5 nil but McNeil is in front of Pieters.
The game at Everton when McNeil makes a mistake to cost us the game and we create absolutely nothing, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game at Bournemouth when we create one chance all game via the substitutes and McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Villa at home, one shot on target all game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Man U, we have one shot on target all game, Taylor assists the key goal that loses us the game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Newcastle where we at least have 4 shots on target and keep a good clean sheet for a nice win, McNeil is playing with Pieters.

Basically the last 6 games show absolutely no evidence of McNeil playing better with Taylor, in fact you could argue evidence to the contrary....
You are missing one vital component there, we were awful as a whole team and didn't play much attacking football in any of those games.

I am obviously talking about the games where we created chances and played some football.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:04 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:01 pm
You are missing one vital component there, we were awful as a whole team and didn't play much attacking football in any of those games.

I am obviously talking about the games where we created chances and played some football.
Oh obviously...I see.

You mean like against Wolves and Southampton and Arsenal early season....or the cup game against Sunderland, perhaps Norwich?
Last edited by Hibsclaret on Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by joey13 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:06 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:57 pm
So:

The game at Spurs when McNeil is by far our best player, we lose 5 nil but McNeil is in front of Pieters.
The game at Everton when McNeil makes a mistake to cost us the game and we create absolutely nothing, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game at Bournemouth when we create one chance all game via the substitutes and McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Villa at home, one shot on target all game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Man U, we have one shot on target all game, Taylor assists the key goal that loses us the game, McNeil is playing with Taylor.
The game against Newcastle where we at least have 4 shots on target and keep a good clean sheet for a nice win, McNeil is playing with Pieters.

Basically the last 6 games show absolutely no evidence of McNeil playing better with Taylor, in fact you could argue evidence to the contrary....
You really do post utter rubbish , how is it Taylor’s fault we only had one shot on target against Villa ,anyone who thinks Pieters is better than Taylor clearly knows nothing about football ,it’s not even up for debate
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:09 pm

Home to Everton, Pieters gets taken off just after half time, Dwight goes on to get MOM.
Home to West Ham - Taylor Starts, Mcneil gets MOM.
Away to Watford - Taylor Starts, McNeil gets a decent rating and played well.

I am just saying that Dwight's best performances seem to have come when he works alongside Taylor.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:10 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:04 pm
Oh obviously...I see.

You mean like against Wolves and Southampton and Arsenal early season....or the cup game against Sunderland, perhaps Norwich?
Now you are taking it away from the point. I didn't say we don't play well with Pieters in the side, we clearly have.
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:13 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:09 pm
Home to Everton, Pieters gets taken off just after half time, Dwight goes on to get MOM.
Home to West Ham - Taylor Starts, Mcneil gets MOM.
Away to Watford - Taylor Starts, McNeil gets a decent rating and played well.

I am just saying that Dwight's best performances seem to have come when he works alongside Taylor.
Everton had ten men when we actually got the goal. West Ham were the worst excuse of a football team to appear at the turf. Away to Watford we struggled for the first half and even Dyche admitted the 3 nil flattered us.

There is absolutely no evidence that McNeil plays better with Taylor. There is, however, evidence that Pieters can create and score goals....

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:15 pm

So home to Everton, Pieters starts. I noticed the not so subtle change there. In fact played more than half of the match. I think that is known as massaging the stats to prove whatever you want to prove, allegedly.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:18 pm

burnleymik wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:10 pm
Now you are taking it away from the point. I didn't say we don't play well with Pieters in the side, we clearly have.
What was the point again? It’s funny how that gets lost when you have evidence to prove that you are talking nonsense

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Just so you understand I am not saying that I think that Pieters should be in ahead of Taylor, just that this season there doesn’t seem to be a lot in it. So there is no need to rubbish Pieters to strengthen the case for Taylor. They are both Burnley.
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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:19 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:06 pm
....... ,anyone who thinks Pieters is better than Taylor clearly knows nothing about football ,it’s not even up for debate
There seems to have been a quite a debate on here though ever since Pieters arrived, so it can't be as clear cut as you claim.
In any case, I'm not sure that you are addressing the same question as Hibs Claret and some others.
Who is the better footballer - Taylor (IMO and probably the majority view)
But: Who has been the most effective this season and (arguably) suits our style better - arguably Pieters.
As I posted earlier, it's the fact that Pieters delivers the ball into the box earlier and quicker that has resulted in assists, whereas Taylor generally prefers to get to the corner before crossing, by which time the defence are well set-up to cut it out. Additionally, he needs to improve his delivery.
He's a very good footballer, but a "work in progress".

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by JohnMac » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:19 pm

Charlie Taylor was tried n front of Ward if I remember rightly and it didn't create many waves.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:21 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:18 pm
Just so you understand I am not saying that I think that Pieters should be in ahead of Taylor, just that this season there doesn’t seem to be a lot in it. So there is no need to rubbish Pieters to strengthen the case for Taylor. They are both Burnley.
This exactly IMO.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:23 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:18 pm
What was the point again? It’s funny how that gets lost when you have evidence to prove that you are talking nonsense
The point was about Taylor and Mcneil and I supplied you evidence that Mcneil's best performances have come with Taylor behind him.

Was Pieters here last season when Dwight was doing very well?

Your evidence just shows that he isn't always good when Taylor is behind him, which I have never disputed, but you seem unable to comprehend.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:23 pm

As for joey13 saying that, ‘’anyone who thinks Pieters is better than Taylor clearly knows nothing about football, it’s not even up for debate’’ seems quite ironic really. Guess joey13 can’t make another comment on the subject really. Kind of excluded himself, if it’s not even up for debate.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by burnleymik » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:26 pm

FWIW I don't dislike Pieters, I think he can do a job for us, I just think Charlie is a better all round player.

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Re: Erik Pieters

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:27 pm

That’s a bit better.

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