Things not well at the club?

[Spijed]

Definitely dodgy as you say. They had a long long list of players they took in on loan when they were in the championship - many were internationals playing champions league football for big teams.
They ended up paying a lot in loan fees and then as you say on the permanent transfers when they signed many looked very under valued.
The whole thing at Wolves stinks of conflicts of interests and dodgy financial transactions and I can’t believe it’s never been investigated by the authorities.
It seems to be have been forgotten too by the media in all the fuss about the lovely exciting football they play !

Hasn't a similar thing occurred at Leicester & Man City?

[ClaretTony]

You think Hendrick will be offered a better deal elsewhere?

Already has although I'm told he'd prefer to stay

[Lord Beamish]

You think Hendrick will be offered a better deal elsewhere?

Probably by a team coming up from the Championship this summer.

[TVC15]

At the last Q and A with SD, he was explaining that players are expecting higher wages than we are paying so even getting current players to sign extensions is a massive challenge.
Hence Hendrick not signing a deal, Heats going to Villa etc.

So it’s hard to just keep the ones we have and I expect those who have signed contracts have gone up several grand a week.

It’s just the way it is.

Players demands are getting more and more I agree. But looking at the wage bills of the likes of Huddersfield, Brentford etc I can’t believe that players like Mousset, Maupay, Mooy and others would not be in our budget range. And it’s the same with good players now like Watkins at Brentford or Phillips at Leeds - there is no way they will be on anywhere near what they can earn at Burnley.

It is very difficult and getting harder I accept but I am not having it that we can’t compete with championship teams or some of the premier league teams nearer the bottom of the finances table.

[ClaretTony]

Definitely dodgy as you say. They had a long long list of players they took in on loan when they were in the championship - many were internationals playing champions league football for big teams.
They ended up paying a lot in loan fees and then as you say on the permanent transfers when they signed many looked very under valued.
The whole thing at Wolves stinks of conflicts of interests and dodgy financial transactions and I can’t believe it’s never been investigated by the authorities.
It seems to be have been forgotten too by the media in all the fuss about the lovely exciting football they play !

Wolves were investigated by the Football League but cleared - this, by the way, the same Football League who allowed new owners at Bolton, Bury etc.

[randomclaret2]

So another club has offered Hendrick a deal ? Is he allowed to talk to other clubs ?

[Chester Perry]

Wolves were investigated by the Football League but cleared - this, by the way, the same Football League who allowed new owners at Bolton, Bury etc.

beat me to it

[TVC15]

Hasn't a similar thing occurred at Leicester & Man City?

Don’t think so - I think the nearest similar case I can remember of flouting the rules and using the loan systems to get round things was what happened at Watford a few years ago when the owner was also something to do with an Italian club (Udinese was it ?)

Man City ain’t bothered what they pay for players - as long as it’s not less than £50m !!!

[Chester Perry]

So another club has offered Hendrick a deal ? Is he allowed to talk to other clubs ?

not in the Premier league

[Spijed]

Don’t think so - I think the nearest similar case I can remember of flouting the rules and using the loan systems to get round things was what happened at Watford a few years ago when the owner was also something to do with an Italian club (Udinese was it ?)

Man City ain’t bothered what they pay for players - as long as it’s not less than £50m !!!

This was the story I just remembered about Leicester

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... estigation

[TVC15]

not in the Premier league

Is he not allowed to from this month ?
Or is it he can talk to any club outside the premier league like Michael Owen did a few years ago when he negotiated his move to Real Madrid ?
What did Danny Ings do ? I thought he talked to Liverpool ?

You may be right but irrespective we all know that they will unofficially talk to other clubs either directly or more probably through their agents.

[ClaretTony]

So another club has offered Hendrick a deal ? Is he allowed to talk to other clubs ?

He's free to talk to who he likes after this window closes and right now can do a deal with a non-English club on a pre-contract. But there are no rules that prevent his agent from talking to other clubs.

[Chester Perry]

Or is it he can talk to any club outside the premier league like Michael Owen did a few years ago when he negotiated his move to Real Madrid ?
What did Danny Ings do ? I thought he talked to Liverpool ?

this
also Ings was subject to a January bid and Liverpool said they would take him in the summer

[TVC15]

This was the story I just remembered about Leicester

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... estigation

Yep Man city and Leicester were both alleged to have got round the sponsorship / revenue rules to try and stay within FFP rules. It was a way of inflating their income and what was investigated was whether those sponsorship deals were legitimate / realistic as they were coming from people who owned the club. You aren’t allowed to just donate a lump of cash to your club and include that in your annual revenue numbers so they try and get round it by artificially inflating sponsorship deals.

The dodgy player loan deals Wolves and Watford were doing were different and was more in relationship to agents, owners, conflicts of interest and under valuing transfer fees etc

[TVC15]

this
also Ings was subject to a January bid and Liverpool said they would take him in the summer

I know he’s not allowed to move for nothing in this transfer window but from what CT is saying he can start talking to other clubs as soon as the window closes even though he will still be our player till June.

[claretandy]

We've got about 18 players who regularly play. Those will be the big payday players.

Yet somehow we've got an 80m+ wage bill..

Can someone do the maths here for me cos I'll doubt anyone is on 90-100k a week.

£80M + was for finishing 7th, only 58m was actual wages, the rest was bonus.

[ClaretTony]

£80M + was for finishing 7th, only 58m was actual wages, the rest was bonus.

And how much of that difference was for finishing outside the bottom three? I'd suggest decent bonuses were paid again last season.

[claretandy]

And how much of that difference was for finishing outside the bottom three? I'd suggest decent bonuses were paid again last season.

I'd still expect it to be lower for finishing 16th.

[summitclaret]

I get all comments about being cautious and generally support the Board's policy. I can't accept unnecessary risks like not addressing glaring gaps in the squad like we have done before in cm and look like doing again. Just look at how Mooy is playing for BHA and wonder why we did not try and get him last Summer. Surely he was within our affordability.

[TVC15]

£80M + was for finishing 7th, only 58m was actual wages, the rest was bonus.

The £80m is all of the clubs wages - players, manager, coaches, sports scientists, and all other staff. I thought we employed around 100 staff in total - might be wrong with that but I know the non playing staff has increased a lot since we have been in this league.

I’d say in terms of playing staff the wages excluding bonuses are nearer to £50m / £55m.

Fag packet stuff but if we had say 30 to 35 players on an average of £30k to £35k a week basic wage then that would get you to roughly £50m to £55m.

We know Dyche is on £3.5m a year and all of his coaching staff plus his sport science team, Mike Rigg etc must take this to around say £6m.

Our bonus is between £15m and £20m depending on where we finish...and the difference up to the £80m total is the rest of the non playing / coaching staff.

That would be my guess anyway !

[ClaretAL]

According to the Burnley Express, Burnley average weekly wage is £36,833 which rates 17th in the PL only better than Brighton Norwich and Sheff United.

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... 614?page=5

[Blackrod]

And you would you then have on the bench?

Players like Vydra, Gibson and Hart will be on good money. They aren’t getting a look in in the PL. It looks like we can have many players on the max x per week. I think we need fewer but some better players even if some are on more than x per week. For the bench the players the better ones displace and for the time the above mentioned get in the pitch we can blood some youngsters of scout some hungry cheaper players. Thought the gist of it was self explanatory.

[Chester Perry]

The £80m is all of the clubs wages - players, manager, coaches, sports scientists, and all other staff. I thought we employed around 100 staff in total - might be wrong with that but I know the non playing staff has increased a lot since we have been in this league.

I’d say in terms of playing staff the wages excluding bonuses are nearer to £50m / £55m.

Fag packet stuff but if we had say 30 to 35 players on an average of £30k to £35k a week basic wage then that would get you to roughly £50m to £55m.

We know Dyche is on £3.5m a year and all of his coaching staff plus his sport science team, Mike Rigg etc must take this to around say £6m.

Our bonus is between £15m and £20m depending on where we finish...and the difference up to the £80m total is the rest of the non playing / coaching staff.

That would be my guess anyway !

We know how much the football side are paid relative to the last accounts because Sean Dyche quite freely gave the information at the time £58m add to that the bonuses (which is effectively all the extra TV money above that of 18th place earned by our final league standing) and non football staff covers the rest

[TVC15]

We know how much the football side are paid relative to the last accounts because Sean Dyche quite freely gave the information at the time £58m add to that the bonuses (which is effectively all the extra TV money above that of 18th place earned by our final league standing) and non football staff covers the rest

Yep I was trying to break it down a bit for the poster who was questioning it and talking about £90k a week wages !

[warksclaret]

We can have all the bullshit in the world-the market is tough, players are being sold for unbelievable sums, wages spiralling, not betting the ranch , the big clubs not wanting to part with fringe players

Lets face it we have been hopeless in recruiting ever since that clown Darnsborough was here. We are just not savvy and out of touch

I note that Brighton are one of three clubs only with average wages per player lower than us. Has anyone seen the performance of Moys lately. He is on a season long loan-they didn't even buy him.An awesome player who could have walked into our team. Huddersfield is within 20 miles of Burnley, yet he has relocated 250 miles away. Are you telling me we tried to get him

Then look at some of the players that Sheff Utd have managed to get from the lower leagues-small fees and low wages (they are also below us on the wages front)

[icu81b4]

The board need challenging with questions by shareholders which at historic meetings they haven’t.

They would need to reinstate the shareholders meetings first.

[The Enclosure]

Interesting if you can believe it.

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-f.c/payroll/

[Chester Perry]

We can have all the bullshit in the world-the market is tough, players are being sold for unbelievable sums, wages spiralling, not betting the ranch , the big clubs not wanting to part with fringe players

Lets face it we have been hopeless in recruiting ever since that clown Darnsborough was here. We are just not savvy and out of touch

I note that Brighton are one of three clubs only with average wages per player lower than us. Has anyone seen the performance of Moys lately. He is on a season long loan-they didn't even buy him.An awesome player who could have walked into our team. Huddersfield is within 20 miles of Burnley, yet he has relocated 250 miles away. Are you telling me we tried to get him

Then look at some of the players that Sheff Utd have managed to get from the lower leagues-small fees and low wages (they are also below us on the wages front)

Brighton pay a much higher basic than us, have debt approaching £250m and don't own their stadium or training facility - Sheffield Utd have done great but spent in the summer at costs we wouldn't countenance and are looking to spend again - oh and their captain is a Burnley fan many on here deemed not good enough

[Bfc]

Re Chester Perry and non football staff. When you watch the team come out for the 2nd half of home matches, there appears to be a lot of staff jogging across the pitch, to the dugout area. Are they all necessary?.
Why do we have 2 staff running onto the pitch to attend an injured player. We seem to have 2 people handing out drinks to players. Then someone in charge of getting the balls gathered after a half time warm up, which an apprentice, or ball boy could do.
I accept football money has changed a lot in the last 20/30 years, but the staffing levels off the field seem to have gone through the roof, adding to the overall cost of running the club. That’s without counting staff, who aren’t involved in the football side of the club.
I think the club will announce an increase in the price of season tickets for next season, citing the running costs, making it inevitable. Benedictine, because it’s popular, will probably go upto £2-50. The only thing maybe being reduced will be season ticket sales and walk on support, given the lack of good news and optimism, re delving into the transfer market.

[Chester Perry]

I would class those as football staff including the analysts

- our club runs a distinctly tighter ship than others in the premier league in terms of staff numbers we tend to be in the bottom 3 some clubs employ well over 700 permanent staff and there are a few in the Championship that employ more permanent staff than us

- FYI some of the non-football staff are there solely by the dictates of being a member of the Premier League

[Royboyclaret]

The £80m is all of the clubs wages - players, manager, coaches, sports scientists, and all other staff. I thought we employed around 100 staff in total - might be wrong with that but I know the non playing staff has increased a lot since we have been in this league.

I’d say in terms of playing staff the wages excluding bonuses are nearer to £50m / £55m.

Fag packet stuff but if we had say 30 to 35 players on an average of £30k to £35k a week basic wage then that would get you to roughly £50m to £55m.

We know Dyche is on £3.5m a year and all of his coaching staff plus his sport science team, Mike Rigg etc must take this to around say £6m.

Our bonus is between £15m and £20m depending on where we finish...and the difference up to the £80m total is the rest of the non playing / coaching staff.

That would be my guess anyway !

No need to guess TVC15, just look at the accounts. £81.6m was the total Wage bill of which £23m represented incentive bonuses for finishing 7th. Finishing 17th the bonus would have been £5.7m. Total number of employees was 184 of which 120 were players, management and training staff, the remainder being admin and part-time staff.

Based on that the expectation to Jun'19 will be a reduced total Wage bill having finished 16th. However, total Revenue will be significantly lower as a result of lower PL merit payments, perhaps £127m compared to the record £139m to Jun'18. There still ought to be an Operating Profit to Jun'19 but will be considerably less than the previous year when £30.7m of the post-tax Profit of £36.6m was profit on the sale of Keane and Gray. Maybe a figure between £5m and £10m.

[Lowbankclaret]

You think Hendrick will be offered a better deal elsewhere?

SD hinted that’s why he has not signed a new contract.

Don’t forget Championship clubs can be paying higher wages than us.

[Lowbankclaret]

So another club has offered Hendrick a deal ? Is he allowed to talk to other clubs ?

Whilst SD didn’t say outright in the Q andA the inference was, Heats and Vokes were offered wages higher than we were prepared to pay, plus we were going to get a transfer fee.

Do you think players don’t talk to each other from other clubs, players they played with as youths or pros.

Ffs I have people ringing me about people I have worked with digging for info, like that will not happen in football.

This whole situation is pushing up wages within the club, before we even try to buy.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Heaton and Vokes should have been sold, they had passed their peak usefulness to the club and better players were available in the squad (I noted with interest how we crowded Tom in the box last week and piled corners onto his head instead of our usual far post position - Pope is much better at that kind of thing).

Hart, Vydra and Gibson should also be sold, given how little they contribute compared to their cost - with wages I bet close to £40m has gone on those three.

At a stroke that would give us huge flexibility without damaging the team, all it damages is the contingency plan for if we have an injury crisis (we have Long, Peacock Farrell and Rodriguez and we could aim to replace Gibson with a cheaper option and Vydra with someone Dyche may intend to play, someone in the Danny Ings class to play off Wood).

So while I am sure there is internal conflict at the club (isn’t there always?) I am also sure there are ways to make our team better without making a loss. That’s even before spending any “dry powder” if there is any, as I am sure there is.

[Wile E Coyote]

Heaton and Vokes should have been sold, they had passed their peak usefulness to the club and better players were available in the squad (I noted with interest how we crowded Tom in the box last week and piled corners onto his head instead of our usual far post position - Pope is much better at that kind of thing).

Hart, Vydra and Gibson should also be sold, given how little they contribute compared to their cost - with wages I bet close to £40m has gone on those three.

At a stroke that would give us huge flexibility without damaging the team, all it damages is the contingency plan for if we have an injury crisis (we have Long, Peacock Farrell and Rodriguez and we could aim to replace Gibson with a cheaper option and Vydra with someone Dyche may intend to play, someone in the Danny Ings class to play off Wood).

So while I am sure there is internal conflict at the club (isn’t there always?) I am also sure there are ways to make our team better without making a loss. That’s even before spending any “dry powder” if there is any, as I am sure there is.

sorry to disagree, but tom heaton was the finest keeper I have ever seen anywhere, and by a country mile too.

[claretandy]

SD hinted that’s why he has not signed a new contract.

Don’t forget Championship clubs can be paying higher wages than us.

Nobody in the championship is paying bigger wages than us, it would have been the length of contract offered for Vokes that made the difference.

[Longsidebogs]

Whatever, it’s clear we do not belong in the Premier League. We don’t appear to have any plans to stay in the Premier League either, given the noise that comes out of the club EVERY transfer window. Sky / BT / Amazon certainly won’t shed any tears when we are replaced by Leeds United. And given the football on show ( I use the term loosely) neither will I.

The really sad thing is that we have practically stood still for several seasons, never really even trying to move the club forward (training facilities aside). And don’t get me started on Mike Rigg. After forty odd years I think I’m done.

[IanMcL]

I seem to remember our income being about £6m before we got promoted. We would go back to low levels, if/when we get relegated.

The board are trying to build a buffer to sustain a decent level. I have no qualms about that. Once we are relegated, the wheels could come off horribly.

[Chester Perry]

Once we are relegated, the wheels could come off horribly.

and have a very good chance of doing so if a club has spent a few seasons in the Premier League before hand - you have in essence 1 good chance at getting back up and that often requires betting the ranch - this is because players leave (don't want the wage reduction/cherry picked) and the size of rebuild is difficult because no one wants to sell to a direct rival unless it breaks them financially

The only team in those circumstances who have done it recently are Newcastle - they had Benitez and spent £109m in wages that season

[randomclaret2]

If , or perhaps listening to some on here, when , we are relegated...will anyone feel any great enthusiasm for the season ahead in the Championship knowing that we would be striving to get back into a division that we cannot compete in ?

[claretonthecoast1882]

If , or perhaps listening to some on here, when , we are relegated...will anyone feel any great enthusiasm for the season ahead in the Championship knowing that we would be striving to get back into a division that we cannot compete in ?

Surely those on here who are bored with the premier league and want a return to a division where we win more than lose would be well up for the Championship

[Longside4evr]

and have a very good chance of doing so if a club has spent a few seasons in the Premier League before hand - you have in essence 1 good chance at getting back up and that often requires betting the ranch - this is because players leave (don't want the wage reduction/cherry picked) and the size of rebuild is difficult because no one wants to sell to a direct rival unless it breaks them financially

The only team in those circumstances who have done it recently are Newcastle - they had Benitez and spent £109m in wages that season

West Brom are masters at it Southampton have also done well at bouncing back and Wolves to an extent Hull did ok but that's the reality you have to sustain or grow your own

[Chester Perry]

West Brom are masters at it Southampton have also done well at bouncing back and Wolves to an extent Hull did ok but that's the reality you have to sustain or grow your own

West Brom are actually in very tricky financial circumstances at the moment, blow this and they are in trouble (especially the way their exemplary academy is being ransacked by Europe's top clubs) - Southampton and Wolves required substantial backing from Billionaires and even Hull had substantial backing initially, much more difficult for them now they are run financially within their own revenue streams

[Longside4evr]

And Newcastle haven't had backing, the only club to do it and sustain is ours without takeovers foreign players and much backing, the teams I have mentioned were all in a similar position when they did it for us to blow this now we would fall well out of that group and could take many years to achieve if at all

[Chip Harrison]

Heaton and Vokes should have been sold, they had passed their peak usefulness to the club and better players were available in the squad (I noted with interest how we crowded Tom in the box last week and piled corners onto his head instead of our usual far post position - Pope is much better at that kind of thing).

And there's me thinking we lost that game. Please tell me the last time Pope saved a shot with his hands instead of his feet. Tell me how good his kicking and distribution is. Also please tell me how vocal he is. I used to hear Heaton from the upper JH. I haven't heard Pope once.

I also want to now from the other posters that continue to bleat that we should be picking up cheap, hungry bargains fro lower leagues. Who are these guys? Is there a chance that only Burnley will see them, or do they not exist?

And what a marvellous point that people are saying we should be like Sheff. Utd, when 90% of people on here were rioting at the thought of signing Norwood. Also Mooy is mentioned as a missed opportunity. None of you wanted him!

[Spike]

would be easier to attract players if the atmosphere was better and all the moaners gave their heads a New Year Wobble!

[Lowbankclaret]

Nobody in the championship is paying bigger wages than us, it would have been the length of contract offered for Vokes that made the difference.

At a earlier Q and A session we were told we missed two targets who choose to go to champ clubs due to them paying higher wages. Think one could have been the striker Assombalonga.
Could be wrong about him but SD definitely said BFC target went to champ clubs. That’s was maybe 18-2 years ago.

[boatshed bill]

Not the club's fault that we find ourselves in the situation where virtually every other PL club can outbid us, and pay better wages than we can. It's the reality of it!

[Lord Beamish]

If , or perhaps listening to some on here, when , we are relegated...will anyone feel any great enthusiasm for the season ahead in the Championship knowing that we would be striving to get back into a division that we cannot compete in ?

I’ve said before that, to me, the chase and capture of the Premier League has been better than trying to stop it escaping again. Without outside investment we are trapped in a paradox. We can’t compete in the Premier League, even with the PL Money, but we also can’t compete in the Championship over the long term because of the lack of the PL Money. Staying in the PL for as long as possible, by any means necessary is probably the best we can hope for, but boy is it going to be **** to watch at times.

[Lord Beamish]

would be easier to attract players if the atmosphere was better and all the moaners gave their heads a New Year Wobble!

It’ll make no difference. Only paying them more will.