Should We Boycott Cyprus

[Burnley Ace]

Yes, the Judge who heard the case from the point of view of the prosecution and the defense, considered the evidence and then convicted her of fabricating a rape claim.

The Judge refused to hear any evidence on the incident itself - the medical evidence of her injuries etc rather he restricted the evidence to what went on in the police station. He also wouldn’t hear any evidence from linguistic experts who would have given evidence on the syntax of the retraction and say it was highly unlikely to have been written by an English person.

[claretonthecoast1882]

So you are basing your opinion on your (presumably extensive) knowledge of porn videos? I have never seen a video were a girl agrees to have sex with 12 partners

You haven't seen Debbie does Duke Bar ?

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

So you are basing your opinion on your (presumably extensive) knowledge of porn videos? I have never seen a video were a girl agrees to have sex with 12 partners

Me neither until I saw the video of that girl.

Girl has consensual sex with twelve men.

Regrets it so falsely accuses them of rape.

Get's convicted of falsely accusing them of rape.

Case closed, she's as guilty as sin.

[deanothedino]

The lads are lucky they haven't been done for making indecent videos without consent.

And then releasing it online without consent. In this country that would fall under our revenge porn laws.

[deanothedino]

The Judge refused to hear any evidence on the incident itself - the medical evidence of her injuries etc rather he restricted the evidence to what went on in the police station. He also wouldn’t hear any evidence from linguistic experts who would have given evidence on the syntax of the retraction and say it was highly unlikely to have been written by an English person.

The retraction was so obviously written by a non-native English speaker. Surprised there's people on here willing to die on a hill in defence of the lads involved.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

"Nir Yaslovitch, an Israeli lawyer who represented several of the men, told the Hebrew news site Ynet on Monday that he was considering pursuing a civil case against the British woman for the damage caused to his clients."

That would be justice in this case and the preferred outcome although I would like to see her serve a long, custodial sentence to prevent others from doing the same.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

The retraction was so obviously written by a non-native English speaker. Surprised there's people on here willing to die on a hill in defence of the lads involved.

Innocent lads involved you mean.

[deanothedino]

Innocent lads involved you mean.

Innocent of recording and posting videos online without consent? Strong evidence would suggest otherwise (like you watching it).

You and 11 mates not planning on a few weeks in Ayia Nappa this summer are you on the back of this verdict?

[Burnley Ace]

And then releasing it online without consent. In this country that would fall under our revenge porn laws.

And also the making and distribution of child pornography

[Burnley Ace]

"Nir Yaslovitch, an Israeli lawyer who represented several of the men, told the Hebrew news site Ynet on Monday that he was considering pursuing a civil case against the British woman for the damage caused to his clients."

That would be justice in this case and the preferred outcome although I would like to see her serve a long, custodial sentence to prevent others from doing the same.

Absolutely no chance of that happening as his clients would have to give evidence in a court where it’s balance of probability not reasonable doubt and the Court would hear all the evidence that the police didn’t consider.

The best these lads can hope for is that there isn’t an appeal nor any investigation into how the case was investigated. I doubt any of them will be leaving Israel for the next few years.

[Corky]

There is enough doubt in my mind for me to suggest that we await the outcome of the appeal before we go all Trumpy!

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

There is enough doubt in my mind for me to suggest that we await the outcome of the appeal before we go all Trumpy!

There won't be one.

[Bordeauxclaret]

These videos that are doing the rounds, do they show the whole experience? (Not from a wanting to view experience, from an evidence perspective I should say )
Is the girl claiming all of it was not consensual?

[Caballo]

And also the making and distribution of child pornography

According to the papers she's 19.

[deanothedino]

According to the papers she's 19.

Youngest lad involved was 15

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

These videos that are doing the rounds, do they show the whole experience? (Not from a wanting to view experience, from an evidence perspective I should say )
Is the girl claiming all of it was not consensual?

Yep, they show the whole thing, and yep it was clearly all consensual. She could have walked out at any point but she kept going, eagerly "interacting" with anything that was "presented" to her. I can understand why she regretted it and I feel sorry for anyone inclined to believe her, the video totally shatters that illusion.

I doubt there will ever be a clearer case of false rape accusation, the more she pushes it, the more difficult it will become for her. I'm sure she and her legal team will soon realise that and drop any talk of an appeal, especially if her sentence can be extended.

Thankfully the lads are young and I doubt it will affect them too much.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Youngest lad involved was 15

Let's hope she's also prosecuted for having sex with a minor.

[deanothedino]

Let's hope she's also prosecuted for having sex with a minor.

You're really not coming across well in this thread.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

You're really not coming across well in this thread.

Wow, 19 year old girl has sex with 15 year old boy then falsely accuses him of rape and you defend it?

I'm certainly coming across better than you.

[deanothedino]

Wow, 19 year old girl has sex with 15 year old boy then falsely accuses him of rape and you defend it?

I'm certainly coming across better than you.

Court listens to a fraction of the evidence, police force her to sign a retraction written by someone who clearly doesn't have English as their native tongue, judge with a track record of ignoring evidence that women were attacked. Yet you defend the trial.

Nah, I think I'm coming across far better than you.

[Bosscat]

Who do you think Claret-on-a-t-rex 'came' across when viewing 'said video'....

[Bosscat]

Wow, 19 year old girl has sex with 15 year old boy then falsely accuses him of rape and you defend it?

I'm certainly coming across better than you.

What about the other 11 boys jesus wept you are a complete weapon arent you....

[claretonthecoast1882]

What about the other 11 boys jesus wept you are a complete weapon arent you....

He gets most things wrong on here

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Court listens to a fraction of the evidence, police force her to sign a retraction written by someone who clearly doesn't have English as their native tongue, judge with a track record of ignoring evidence that women were attacked. Yet you defend the trial.

Nah, I think I'm coming across far better than you.

Spare me the hypocrisy, the truth hurts but unlike you I've seen the evidence that led her to her conviction for falsely accusing innocent young men of rape.

You can argue with your misguided opinion until the cows come home but facts win every time, she's guilty and she will be forever.

Will you be on here when she decides not to appeal for whatever bullshit reason they contoct to protect the narrative, like "no chance of a fair trial" or "she just wants to put it behind her?"

No, you won't.

If it were a nineteen-year-old Asian man having sex with fifteen-year-old British women and then claiming they'd raped him I suspect the story on here would be very different.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

What about the other 11 boys jesus wept you are a complete weapon arent you....

What about them?

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Who do you think Claret-on-a-t-rex 'came' across when viewing 'said video'....

Childish and pathetic, welcome to my ignore list.

[deanothedino]

Spare me the hypocrisy, the truth hurts but unlike you I've seen the evidence that led her to her conviction for falsely accusing innocent young men of rape.

You can argue with your misguided opinion until the cows come home but facts win every time, she's guilty and she will be forever.

Will you be on here when she decides not to appeal for whatever bullshit reason they contoct to protect the narrative, like "no chance of a fair trial" or "she just wants to put it behind her?"

No, you won't.

If it were a nineteen-year-old Asian man having sex with fifteen-year-old British women and then claiming they'd raped him I suspect the story on here would be very different.

Hypocrisy?

Sorry, I want to see someone have a fair trial.

It's clear to anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together that even if they haven't raped her they've released videos of her without her consent. So, personally I'd like to see an investigation where all the evidence is considered.

You've seen a video, it may not be the whole time period. I've not seen it, I have no desire to see it either. You've clearly enjoyed it though.

[Bosscat]

Childish and pathetic, welcome to my ignore list.

I will be in very good company then you sad pathetic individual

[Corky]

There won't be one.

You the Council for the Defence are you?

[Colburn_Claret]

So you are basing your opinion on your (presumably extensive) knowledge of porn videos? I have never seen a video were a girl agrees to have sex with 12 partners

A sheltered life Ace.
I've never seen Pluto, I still believe it's there because I've seen the pictures.
I'm with T rex on this. If the video even shows her consenting with 2 or 3, she's still lied to the court. She wouldnt be the first female to complain after the acts. Sadly it undermines those genuine cases of rape, so she isnt doing her sex any favours in taking this to the police in the first place. She certainly made a big mistake in making these allegations abroad. It doesn't matter if it's Cyprus or elsewhere. Foreign police are very rarely friendly P.C. Plods.
IF I was in the position of these Israelis, the first thing I would have done on hearing the allegations, is show them the video. It's common sense. It now sounds like that is what they've done, and the Police, the prosecution, and the judge have all come to the same conclusion.
I dont know this lass from Eve, but when you see brits on the ****, abroad, especially in places like Ayia Napa the females are hardly demure debutants. I feel sorry for her, not because of her treatment, but because shes been a complete idiot.

I understand your argument of what constitutes rape, as I'm sure T rex does, but that doesn't mean it applies in this case, unless you know something that the Police, the prosecution and the judge didn't.

[deanothedino]

If the video even shows her consenting with 2 or 3, she's still lied to the court.

Not quite. If she consents to 2 or 3 and then doesn't consent when the other 8 or 9 join - if they carry on they are still raping her. That's how it works, consent isn't indefinite. If the video showed her having consensual sex with one guy and then suddenly stopped, she could still remove consent after that and it would still be rape.

[CombatClaret]

If the video even shows her consenting with 2 or 3, she's still lied to the court.

She didn't lie in court, she changed the statement she gave to police. It's quite a big distinction legally.
Just like how some of the men changed their statements from never having sex with her, to then saying they did but it was consensual after DNA evidence proved their first statement false.

[Colburn_Claret]

Not quite. If she consents to 2 or 3 and then doesn't consent when the other 8 or 9 join - if they carry on they are still raping her. That's how it works, consent isn't indefinite. If the video showed her having consensual sex with one guy and then suddenly stopped, she could still remove consent after that and it would still be rape.

I'm not arguing that it isn't, what I'm saying is the video obviously doesn't show this. Has she ever claimed that she consented to 2 or 3, then changed her mind....... If so I've never read it. If you want to make that argument you would have been better suited putting your money on a different horse.

There's a line that's crossed that cannot be undone, and dont take this as anything to do with this case, its just a general question.
If a women ****** as a fart, showing off to her mates agrees to have sex with 50 lads, but she changes her mind after 49. Would you accuse the last lad of rape if he did it any way. By definition he's guilty. I'd have to find him guilty as well, but I certainly wouldn't be chucking the book at him. Men have a responsibility to respect women, but women also have a responsibility to respect themselves. Alcohol is a great friend, but an evil master.

[deanothedino]

If a women ****** as a fart, showing off to her mates agrees to have sex with 50 lads, but she changes her mind after 49. Would you accuse the last lad of rape if he did it any way. By definition he's guilty. I'd have to find him guilty as well, but I certainly wouldn't be chucking the book at him. Men have a responsibility to respect women, but women also have a responsibility to respect themselves. Alcohol is a great friend, but an evil master.

Well, yeah because it is rape. Just because she was happy to have sex with the first 49 doesn’t mean 1 more, 2 more or 49 more are entitled to have sex with her.

Maybe I have a different set of morals to you, I don’t think rape is ever okay whereas you seem to think it is in some cases.

[Colburn_Claret]

Well, yeah because it is rape. Just because she was happy to have sex with the first 49 doesn’t mean 1 more, 2 more or 49 more are entitled to have sex with her.

Maybe I have a different set of morals to you, I don’t think rape is ever okay whereas you seem to think it is in some cases.

I said he would be guilty, if you'd bothered to read my post, what I did say was I wouldn't throw the book at him.
If you played a game of Russian roulette where you pointed the gun at your opponent's head instead of your own, would you be guilty of murder if you killed him, wouldn't he bear any responsibility at all for agreeing to play.
Every women has the right to change her mind, but if you agree to sex with multiple people, then change your mind, you are playing Russian roulette. She has to take some of the responsibility, and if you think she doesn't, then you do have a different set of morals to me.

[deanothedino]

I said he would be guilty, if you'd bothered to read my post, what I did say was I wouldn't throw the book at him.
If you played a game of Russian roulette where you pointed the gun at your opponent's head instead of your own, would you be guilty of murder if you killed him, wouldn't he bear any responsibility at all for agreeing to play.
Every women has the right to change her mind, but if you agree to sex with multiple people, then change your mind, you are playing Russian roulette. She has to take some of the responsibility, and if you think she doesn't, then you do have a different set of morals to me.

You wouldn’t throw the book at him. I read that, yes.

I would. He’d be a rapist. If she says no to him. That’s not Russian roulette. It is rape. You are insane if you think otherwise.

[Colburn_Claret]

You wouldn’t throw the book at him. I read that, yes.

I would. He’d be a rapist. If she says no to him. That’s not Russian roulette. It is rape. You are insane if you think otherwise.

I pray you never get called up for jury service, I'd pity the poor bugger sat in the dock.
I've said twice now I'd find him guilty, so I do think it's rape. But personally in the scenario I created, I wouldn't give him more than a heavy fine. She has to take some of the responsibility for placing herself in that situation, and that should be considered when a sentence is passed.

[Dyched]

I said he would be guilty, if you'd bothered to read my post, what I did say was I wouldn't throw the book at him.
If you played a game of Russian roulette where you pointed the gun at your opponent's head instead of your own, would you be guilty of murder if you killed him, wouldn't he bear any responsibility at all for agreeing to play.
Every women has the right to change her mind, but if you agree to sex with multiple people, then change your mind, you are playing Russian roulette. She has to take some of the responsibility, and if you think she doesn't, then you do have a different set of morals to me.

Stick to eating Lego pal

[CoolClaret]

I'm not to sure what some people in here think happens in the bedroom but what constitutes as 'consent'?

You can't surely expect each individual lad to ask her if they are 'allowed to continue' or whatever... Not only would that absolutely kill the mood the bird would think you're weird as ****.

Final point, if she didn't consent to more than three then I'm sure that she would have resisted - has there been any possibly evidence found of resistance & force used to overcome her? If not then I'm pretty convinced that she's ****** up, realised she's made a mistake then cried rape & now has really arsed the situation up.

[deanothedino]

Final point, if she didn't consent to more than three then I'm sure that she would have resisted - has there been any possibly evidence found of resistance & force used to overcome her? If not then I'm pretty convinced that she's ****** up, realised she's made a mistake then cried rape & now has really arsed the situation up.

Yes. I can’t remember the exact number (it’s in another post in the thread) but she had 30+ bruises that an expert stated indicated abuse.

As for consent? Then not saying no or get off me would be a start.

[deanothedino]

I pray you never get called up for jury service, I'd pity the poor bugger sat in the dock.
I've said twice now I'd find him guilty, so I do think it's rape. But personally in the scenario I created, I wouldn't give him more than a heavy fine. She has to take some of the responsibility for placing herself in that situation, and that should be considered when a sentence is passed.

Why? Because I might see justice done?

Heavy fine. What a ******* joke.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

A sheltered life Ace.
I've never seen Pluto, I still believe it's there because I've seen the pictures.
I'm with T rex on this. If the video even shows her consenting with 2 or 3, she's still lied to the court. She wouldnt be the first female to complain after the acts. Sadly it undermines those genuine cases of rape, so she isnt doing her sex any favours in taking this to the police in the first place. She certainly made a big mistake in making these allegations abroad. It doesn't matter if it's Cyprus or elsewhere. Foreign police are very rarely friendly P.C. Plods.
IF I was in the position of these Israelis, the first thing I would have done on hearing the allegations, is show them the video. It's common sense. It now sounds like that is what they've done, and the Police, the prosecution, and the judge have all come to the same conclusion.
I dont know this lass from Eve, but when you see brits on the ****, abroad, especially in places like Ayia Napa the females are hardly demure debutants. I feel sorry for her, not because of her treatment, but because shes been a complete idiot.

I understand your argument of what constitutes rape, as I'm sure T rex does, but that doesn't mean it applies in this case, unless you know something that the Police, the prosecution and the judge didn't.

It's totally consensual, as anyone who has seen the video will tell you. Hence her being tried and convicted for making a bogus claim. The only crime was actually committed by her.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I also feel sorry for her and believed her until I saw the evidence with my own eyes but, as I keep saying, there isn't the slightest doubt she consented and then lied, it is very clear.

[Darnhill Claret]

The jury says guilty or not guilty if it is a not guilty plea. The judge does the sentencing. So Colburn, are you judge or jury?

[Colburn_Claret]

The jury says guilty or not guilty if it is a not guilty plea. The judge does the sentencing. So Colburn, are you judge or jury?

I'm neither and both.
I've done jury service twice, it's very rarely black or white. As human beings some of us are animals, some of us are decent, but even decent people are capable of making mistakes.
As a judge you have to judge the facts of the case in the same light, it isn't always black or white. The circumstances have to be taken into consideration, even if the accused is guilty.

Rape can take many forms. Targeting vulnerable individuals. Stalking. Drugging a stranger. Pouncing in a secluded area at night. The difference is they set out to commit the crime. Comparing those crimes to some lads out on the lash, meeting some lass out on the lash, who changes her mind half way through is not the same. The criminal charge might be, and the verdict the same, but the punishment should reflect the circumstances. I'm not advocating they should get a pat on the back, but neither do I think they should be locked up and throw away the key.
When you make a mistake you should hold your hand up, and whatever the truth of the Cyprus case, no one can deny she made a big mistake. Does that justify it, of course it doesn't, nothing could ever justify rape, but she put herself in that situation wether she meant to or not.

[dsr]

As was proved in court a few years ago, when a trainee solicitor got 2 years for attempted rape, the courts agree with Colbourn that there are degrees of seriousness in what constitutes rape.

The young man met a young woman at a conference. The young woman invited him to her bedroom because he hadn't anywhere to stay; she took all her clothes off in front of him and got into bed; he took all his clothes off and got into bed with her, and after 15 seconds (his estimate) or 20 seconds (her estimate) it was made clear to his alcohol-affected brain that she didn't want sex. So he got out of bed and slept in the chair; she slept in the bed. Next morning she went to the police, the young man was prosecuted, and found guilty of attempted rape.

Is he as evil as the man who drags a young lady into an alley and tears her clothes off her before being arrested just before sexual activity takes place? Both have committed attempted rape. But would it be fair to say one is a more aggravated offence than the other?

[Banana]

There is a chance that some of her bruises could of been from when she was crashing up and down on top of 2 of the lads!?

None of us will know if she retracted her consent at a time that wasn't in the videos but it is plain to see that during the video she was entirely consensual and actually instigating the acts.

I feel sorry for all involved and imagine they all have some regret in this drunken misadventure.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

There is a chance that some of her bruises could of been from when she was crashing up and down on top of 2 of the lads!?

None of us will know if she retracted her consent at a time that wasn't in the videos but it is plain to see that during the video she was entirely consensual and actually instigating the acts.

I feel sorry for all involved and imagine they all have some regret in this drunken misadventure.

Again, somebody who has actually seen the video comes to the same and only conclusion...

"she was entirely consensual and actually instigating the acts."

There isn't really any other way to describe it, hence the conviction for the bogus accusation.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

You wouldn’t throw the book at him. I read that, yes.

I would. He’d be a rapist. If she says no to him. That’s not Russian roulette. It is rape. You are insane if you think otherwise.

Rape is rape, I'm not discussing the crime itself, I'm saying that the evidence clearly shows it isn't rape, by any of the lads involved and by any stretch of the imagination. She claimed she was raped and the evidence actually supports the fact that she certainly wasn't and that the claim was false.
As I keep saying, anybody who has seen the evidence keeps coming to the same conclusion.
That's why she won't be appealing, as Banana pointed out, she isn't just participating, she's instigating it, there is no hint of noncensual sex in there, it's about as far away from that as you can go, the other end of the spectrum so to speak.
Everybody on here seems to want to character assassinate the people pointing that out but the video didn't just exonerate the lads involved it led to her being tried and convicted.

[deanothedino]

Rape is rape, I'm not discussing the crime itself, I'm saying that the evidence clearly shows it isn't rape, by any of the lads involved and by any stretch of the imagination. She claimed she was raped and the evidence actually supports the fact that she certainly wasn't and that the claim was false.
As I keep saying, anybody who has seen the evidence keeps coming to the same conclusion.
That's why she won't be appealing, as Banana pointed out, she isn't just participating, she's instigating it, there is no hint of noncensual sex in there, it's about as far away from that as you can go, the other end of the spectrum so to speak.
Everybody on here seems to want to character assassinate the people pointing that out but the video didn't just exonerate the lads involved it led to her being tried and convicted.

Nah, her “confession” is what led to the boys going home to Israel and it clearly wasn’t written by her but you’ve enjoyed watching the apparent video so it’s all good right.