Dean Smith & Drinkwater

[Pstotto]

Trust Chester Perry to spoil the story... Tut tut.

[dsr]

I think the issue is dsr (or my issue at least) is we had a very good Premier League class midfielder sat on the bench week in week out when our current midfield were not performing. It’s the lack of a plan b which annoys so many.

But the problem is that he was a good class midfielder three years ago. Since then he has warmed the bench at Chelsea, got hurt in a bar brawl, and most crucially of all, performed like he has in training. The question is whether Dyche ought to pick him based on his past history to please a section of the fans, or trust his own judgement and ignore the fans.

[claretblue]

1-1 with Lansbury. 5-0 with Drinkwater.

I think we should get back in for him...

don't think Danny will sign for Burnley again!

[claretblue]

Smith deserved a share of the discredit for setting his team up with such pusillanimous intent

calling Spades...help needed!

[ashtonlongsider]

I think Dean Smith was making a statement yesterday by playing DD. That being, the only way to get proper fit is by having game time, something denied the lad with us. Under normal circumstances with his lack of action I would have expected him to be hooked at half time. He played 70 odd minutes. He will get better and Villa's defeat yesterday was certainly not totally down to DD's inclusion. With the exception of Mings they are poor defensively and that defence looks even more fragile without Heaton behind them.

[BurnleyFC]

He hasn’t lost any edge, nor is he just rusty.

He’s quite simply not good enough anymore. It happens.

[ŽižkovClaret]

He's simply the new Michael Johnson isn't he? Very sad

[fidelcastro]

He's simply the new Michael Johnson isn't he? Very sad

He must be quick then!

[deanothedino]

calling Spades...help needed!

It means timid

[claretblue]

It means timid

I was after the definition of ‘intent’

[Down_Rover]

Ings was sold for a million to Southampton and Drinkwater wasn't he on £300,000 a week and he was here for????

You do the maths, DownRover.

Where do you get £300k from? I think it was nearer £100K, and we don't know what proportion we paid.

But lets take your numbers:-

£300k x 20 weeks £6m
Crouch max £2m

Southampton paid £20m

[Goobs]

It means timid

I thought it meant a laminated cat so I was really confused.

[TVC15]

Where do you get £300k from? I think it was nearer £100K, and we don't know what proportion we paid.

But lets take your numbers:-

£300k x 20 weeks £6m
Crouch max £2m

Southampton paid £20m

Tbf to Psotto his numbers were in the currency of Space Biscuits
Don’t get sucked in to responding to him

[cblantfanclub]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 81016.html

[Rowls]

I think Dean Smith was making a statement yesterday by playing DD. That being, the only way to get proper fit is by having game time, something denied the lad with us.

His game time was mainly curtailed by the fact that he managed to get injured whilst with us in what is perhaps best described as a "non-footballing injury".

[Pstotto]

Down_Rover, even if those wasterspaces cost us £4Million we could have bought a 'wonderkid' for that from wherever, or £4 million on local kids.

However you massage the figures it looks a poor waste of money.

Trippier went to Spurs for less.

[bf2k]

But the problem is that he was a good class midfielder three years ago. Since then he has warmed the bench at Chelsea, got hurt in a bar brawl, and most crucially of all, performed like he has in training. The question is whether Dyche ought to pick him based on his past history to please a section of the fans, or trust his own judgement and ignore the fans.

I understand what your saying (other thanThe training bit, we haven’ta clue how he’s performed in training) but surely Dyche knew he’s not played football for a while before signing him and wouldn’t be fit enough. However, the point stands, he couldn’t be any worse than any of the current midfield when match fit but we’ll never know because an expensive loan signing wasn’t used.

[TVC15]

I understand what your saying (other thanThe training bit, we haven’ta clue how he’s performed in training) but surely Dyche knew he’s not played football for a while before signing him and wouldn’t be fit enough. However, the point stands, he couldn’t be any worse than any of the current midfield when match fit but we’ll never know because an expensive loan signing wasn’t used.

But clearly he was not match fit - as yesterday proved.
And when he did play for us he was worse than the rest of our midfield - against City and Sunderland.
Even for the u23s he was not our best midfielder when I saw him.
Not sure what Dyche could have done. Maybe we should not have signed him but whilst he was here there was something not right.
Would not be surprised if Chelsea had our pants down playing him in a couple of pre season games when in reality he was nowhere near Lampard's plans. They’ve saved £3.5m on wages farming him out to us and Villa for someone who would not have got near their bench this season.

[Jakubclaret]

But clearly he was not match fit - as yesterday proved.
And when he did play for us he was worse than the rest of our midfield - against City and Sunderland.
Even for the u23s he was not our best midfielder when I saw him.
Not sure what Dyche could have done. Maybe we should not have signed him but whilst he was here there was something not right.
Would not be surprised if Chelsea had our pants down playing him in a couple of pre season games when in reality he was nowhere near Lampard's plans. They’ve saved £3.5m on wages farming him out to us and Villa for someone who would not have got near their bench this season.

Well none of them was match fit then if you are judging him against de bruyne & mahrez etc, he wasn’t alone in the villa side overwhelmed, I’d judge him personally when featured amongst teams in & around with the same calibre as comparison, on balance be fair.

[joey13]

Like he ignored the numerous issues with Joey Barton and got the best out of him?

Nothing like Barton , Barton was playing regularly

[TVC15]

Well none of them was match fit then if you are judging him against de bruyne & mahrez etc, he wasn’t alone in the villa side overwhelmed, I’d judge him personally when featured amongst teams in & around with the same calibre as comparison, on balance be fair.

Possibly he will improve against lesser teams but I don’t think the rest of the Villa midfield / team were being criticised for not being fit - whereas Drinkwater was pretty universally by everyone.
Thing is when was the last time he was match fit ? 3 years ago ?

[Jakubclaret]

Nothing like Barton , Barton was playing regularly

Only because Barton got the opportunity to, if you don't get picked you don't get that same opportunity, as other posters have said we don't know what SD witnessed on the training ground & maybe a valid reason exists, he had a stinker yesterday as did most of the villas team, if he starts playing well against Brighton & West ham ect, it looks foolish denying him gametime whilst on loan when he was fit.

[Jakubclaret]

Possibly he will improve against lesser teams but I don’t think the rest of the Villa midfield / team were being criticised for not being fit - whereas Drinkwater was pretty universally by everyone.
Thing is when was the last time he was match fit ? 3 years ago ?

It's wise to reserve judgement for now, I think he'll do OK when settled against the teams ect mentioned in my other post. 1 game against the might of Man City is far too early in my view, plenty of I told you so & you was wrong & I was right going on here, the truth is nobody knows yet.

[dougcollins]

Tbf to Psotto his numbers were in the currency of Space Biscuits
Don’t get sucked in to responding to him

Space biscuits. Mmmmm.

[dsr]

I understand what your saying (other thanThe training bit, we haven’ta clue how he’s performed in training) but surely Dyche knew he’s not played football for a while before signing him and wouldn’t be fit enough. However, the point stands, he couldn’t be any worse than any of the current midfield when match fit but we’ll never know because an expensive loan signing wasn’t used.

Sean Dyche knows how he's performed in training. He has used that knowledge in assessing his suitability for the first team. Maybe we should have given him seven or eight matches when he wasn't fit early season, and foregone the actual points we won then in hopes of benefitting later - but maybe we shouldn't.

And I really don't get what you're saying about he couldn't possibly be worse than the players we have now. Just because he once played for England does not mean he will be good for ever and ever. Neither Ian Wright nor Paul Gascoigne were good enough for Burnley 1st XI when they came, and Burnley at a lower level than we are now. Being a former England player does not give you a walk into any Premier league team for evermore.

[evensteadiereddie]

Great article in the i-paper today on the Villa-City game likening Drinkwater's laughable performance to that of Jonathan Woodgate's debut for Real and whose pub-player like performance is legendary.
One quote makes me chuckle..
"At one point, the cameras turned on Dean Smith on the touchline as he scratched his face, with the look of a man who is just working out why no one else had snapped up on loan from Chelsea a former Premier-League midfielder who had made just one Premier League start in almost two years."

Ouch !

[dandeclaret]

He was pretty **** for Man City’s goal just then.

Very “Cork-esque” - can’t run and can’t tackle.

Done well to make a career then hasn't he Jack Cork? ******* fear for some of you lot when you do actually have to watch some **** players again. You get what you deserve.

[TVC15]

It's wise to reserve judgement for now, I think he'll do OK when settled against the teams ect mentioned in my other post. 1 game against the might of Man City is far too early in my view, plenty of I told you so & you was wrong & I was right going on here, the truth is nobody knows yet.

Not really going to matter whether I’m proved right or wrong though is it ?
My view is based is however based on the logic that he has not got himself fit / sharp enough to play in more than 2 years though. I doubt he was turning out much for the Chelsea u23s when he couldn’t get near their bench either. I’m not aware of any players that have managed to resurrect their previous form after such a long period out.
Add to that the fact that he’s pushing on 30 and he has had arguably one good season in his career in the top flight and I’d say that the odds are heavily stacked against him doing well for Villa....but he might.

[Jakubclaret]

Not really going to matter whether I’m proved right or wrong though is it ?
My view is based is however based on the logic that he has not got himself fit / sharp enough to play in more than 2 years though. I doubt he was turning out much for the Chelsea u23s when he couldn’t get near their bench either. I’m not aware of any players that have managed to resurrect their previous form after such a long period out.
Add to that the fact that he’s pushing on 30 and he has had arguably one good season in his career in the top flight and I’d say that the odds are heavily stacked against him doing well for Villa....but he might.

You are right & I agree in part, I don't want to be proved right as it will strengthen a rival I'd rather be wrong, I certainly won't be reminding people if I am, in the title winning season kante overshadowed drinkwater anyway when everybody seemed to hit the peak, I think people are more disgruntled why we signed him on loan when doubts existed, I guess it was a gamble & some come off & some don't, anyway this my last post on this thread I've pretty much covered what I had to say & in danger of repeating myself if I continue, it's healthy to agree to disagree.

[Goobs]

Done well to make a career then hasn't he Jack Cork? ******* fear for some of you lot when you do actually have to watch some **** players again. You get what you deserve.

Thing is a lot of those moaning won't see the **** players when it happens again as they'll be amongst the thousands either boycotting or sitting in their armchairs being the biggest Liverpool / United TV fan going.

[deanothedino]

Nothing like Barton , Barton was playing regularly

You didn't comment solely on him playing. Barton still had off the field issues and Dyche backed himself to sort it. Dyche likely backed himself to sort Drinkwater and that with games the performances would come back to. He couldn't, they didn't, he's moved on, the end.

[NewClaret]

“Absolutely crap” again today according to my Villa-supporting brother-in-law, who was at Brighton today. Phew.

[dsr]

“Absolutely crap” again today according to my Villa-supporting brother-in-law, who was at Brighton today. Phew.

It's their new tactic. Both games so far, they have taken Drinkwater off and "won" the rest of the game. Let's hope they don't spot the link and sub him off in the first minute!

[Long Time Lurker]

“Absolutely crap” again today according to my Villa-supporting brother-in-law, who was at Brighton today. Phew.

Utter nonsense. I watched the Brighton vs Villa match and Drinkwater was the best player on the pitch by a country mile.

He was involved in everything good that Villa did and he looked as fresh as a daisy after 70 minutes. It was like watching a man in a team of boys.

If any Villa fans are reading this they need to argue the case for playing him the full 90 minutes every game until the end of the season. As a Burnley supporter Drinkwater is the first name on the Villa team sheet for me

Putting down the book of obvious dark arts, the way that Villa pressed Brighton and stopped them playing out from the back was particularly effective today, but both teams looked very toothless up front.

Brighton did figure out that the way to nullify the threat of Villa was to close down Greilish though. One of the reasons that Villa took us to the cleaners is because we played right into their hands by giving him all the the space in the world to buzz around, which suited his game perfectly. Mings did well for them today, Reina pulled off a good save to secure their point and Ghazi missed a sitter.

[Hibsclaret]

The Villa forum is very amusing on the topic of Drinkwater. A few of the comments:

“He has been thrown in after essentially being on a bender for 2 years”

“Return to sender with Elvis clip”

“Followed up the worst debut in footballing history with another shocker”

“There’s a good reason why this clown did not get many minutes at Burnley”

[NewClaret]

Utter nonsense. I watched the Brighton vs Villa match and Drinkwater was the best player on the pitch by a country mile.

He was involved in everything good that Villa did and he looked as fresh as a daisy after 70 minutes. It was like watching a man in a team of boys.

If any Villa fans are reading this they need to argue the case for playing him the full 90 minutes every game until the end of the season. As a Burnley supporter Drinkwater is the first name on the Villa team sheet for me

Putting down the book of obvious dark arts, the way that Villa pressed Brighton and stopped them playing out from the back was particularly effective today, but both teams looked very toothless up front.

Brighton did figure out that the way to nullify the threat of Villa was to close down Greilish though. One of the reasons that Villa took us to the cleaners is because we played right into their hands by giving him all the the space in the world to buzz around, which suited his game perfectly. Mings did well for them today, Reina pulled off a good save to secure their point and Ghazi missed a sitter.

I’m hoping Smith has written game time in to his contract. At least 70 minutes until the end of season

Still annoyed we gave Grealish the freedom of the turf. Their only dangerous player and we stood off him every time he got the ball... and got what we deserved.

It was so bad I wondered if it were some weird tactic to give him so much time, he became distracted admiring his own legs. Or maybe nip off to sign an autograph. SD said afterwards that he “wasn’t happy with the distances in defence”, which I assumed to mean they actually meant to get tighter, which is even worse! Astounds me that professional footballers can’t spot where danger exists and adapt accordingly in the pitch.

[Barry_Chuckle]

Being quite effective tonight is Drinkwater, some nice runs into the box, breaking up Watfords play....... I wouldn't write him off as a poor signing for Villa yet.

[Bigvince]

I’m watching villa as well, definitely an improvement on weekend so far, still doing an awful lot of pointing

[jrgbfc]

Dean Smith has obviously seen something there to suggest he's worth persevering with.

[Spijed]

Dean Smith has obviously seen something there to suggest he's worth persevering with.

Drinkwater is an anagram of the word desperation!

[Bigvince]

Drinkwater is an anagram of the word desperation!

No it isn’t

[Local cricketer]

Thought he let his man go for the goal

[claptrappers_union]

Drinkwater is an anagram of the word desperation!

Retard Wink

[MrTopTier]

Drinkwater anagram game, tired wankr

[WazzaClaret]

Villa win it with the last kick of the game. Could damage watford for a few games hopefully.

[wilks_bfc]

Villa win it with the last kick of the game. Could damage watford for a few games hopefully.

If Watford are annoyed then imagine how Everton feel

[WazzaClaret]

Yeah i swithced over just as the knocked the free kick in

[wilks_bfc]

Back on topic, I see Drinkwater is getting subbed off earlier as each game go by.

79mins
68mins
56mins

He’ll be off at half time on Saturday at this rate

[KRBFC]

I’m amazed so many people give a sh** about Drinkwater still tbh

[dsr]

It's a sneaky tactic. In 3 games, when Drinkwater is on the pitch, they have lost 0-6 0-1 0-1. After he's been subbed, they've won 1-0 1-0 2-0. That's why they're taking him off earlier and earlier.