Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

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Pstotto
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Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:46 pm

21.44 PM

'Einstein"? EINSTEIN!!!!!! Your tea's ready"...

"Right, we better give up the experiment then".

They were expecting philosophy but instead they got epistemology.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 am

“Einstein said that if quantum mechanics were correct then the world would be crazy. Einstein was right - the world is crazy.”
― Daniel M. Greenberger
“[T]he atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts.”
― Werner Heisenberg
One of the great anomalies of reality - the very building blocks of matter appear to have no real existence in themselves and only seem to exist when they are being observed. Thus leading to the famous question - does a room still exist after you have left it?

Who knows???

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:00 pm

I think it's a complex hoax. Wittgenstein's Tractatus I think is a hoax for the same reason.

Look at the names involved....

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by LeadBelly » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:03 pm

I always like the (attributed to Richard Feynman) quote "If you think you understand quantum mechanics then you don't understand quantum mechanics"?

It's very difficult to get to grips with because it's largely counter-intuitive.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:05 pm

Can you pay on the gate on Sunday? :roll:

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:05 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:03 pm
I always like the (attributed to Richard Feynman) quote "If you think you understand quantum mechanics then you don't understand quantum mechanics"?

It's very difficult to get to grips with because it's largely counter-intuitive.
The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Wile E Coyote » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm

quantum physics must be easier than long division and logarithms surely.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by LeadBelly » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:12 pm

must be easier than long division and logarithms surely.
No it's harder than that- it's almost as difficult as understanding women. ;)
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Rowls » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm

I definitely exist because I'm here.

But you guys?

I'm not so sure.

You're most likely just part of my imagination.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Sproggy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm

Rowls, if your imagination is conjuring up some of the posters on here, you really need to speak to someone.....
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:37 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:12 pm
No it's harder than that- it's almost as difficult as understanding women. ;)
It's hard mate, but not THAT hard. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:38 pm

Rowls wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm
I definitely exist because I'm here.

But you guys?

I'm not so sure.

You're most likely just part of my imagination.
Cogito ergo sum. As for everything else?

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:48 pm

LeadBelly wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:03 pm
I always like the (attributed to Richard Feynman) quote "If you think you understand quantum mechanics then you don't understand quantum mechanics"?

It's very difficult to get to grips with because it's largely counter-intuitive.
A subject that has fascinated me for years but about which I know virtually nothing because as soon as you think you know something it's gone. Einstein I think referred to it as God playing dice with the universe. All I do know is that the two great ideas of physics, the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics are apparently totally incompatible. The quantum world is bizarre and bears no resemblance to the world in which we live and yet the world in which we live is built upon that very world.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:51 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm
quantum physics must be easier than long division and logarithms surely.
I remember logarythms at school. I started secondary school and was immediately given a book full of numbers and I thought WTF is all this. I left 4 years later looking at the book and thinking WTF is all this.

Who uses logarythims? Someone must.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:24 pm

If they tell you how to use logarithms without explaining what is is and why it is, then there's no basis for logical comprehension.

There is a simple explanation to it, I remember.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Bosscat » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:28 pm

Pstotto wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:46 pm
21.44 PMThey were expecting philosophy but instead they got epistemology.
How about some Epithemiology

https://youtu.be/b-iqMCdjb_0

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by tim_noone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:30 pm

Im drawn to Frederick Nietzsche myself but will need to revise if theres a debate to be had...
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Bosscat » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:34 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:30 pm
Im drawn to Frederick Nietzsche myself but will need to revise if theres a debate to be had...
I know everything I know about philosophers thanks to Eric Idle....

Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table

David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as sloshed as Schlegel

There's nothing Nietzche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist
Socrates, himself, was permanently p!ssed

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill
Plato, they say, could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
Hobbes was fond of his dram
And René Descartes was a drunken fart
"I drink, therefore I am"

Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed
A lovely little thinker
But a bugger when he's p!ssed
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by LeadBelly » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:37 pm

Im drawn to Frederick Nietzsche myself but will need to revise if theres a debate to be had...
Menschliches, Allzumenschliches

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Buxtonclaret » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:01 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm
quantum physics must be easier than long division and logarithms surely.
Agreed. It must be.
Especially if having taken your shoes & socks off, your still no nearer the answer... :cry:

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:11 pm

I studied quantum physics as part of my degree. I remember being told that if it wasn’t for quantum mechanics, which is really weird, then the sun wouldn’t fire up.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by LeadBelly » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:19 pm

I studied quantum physics as part of my degree. I remember being told that if it wasn’t for quantum mechanics, which is really weird, then the sun wouldn’t fire up
Neither then would Sirius, Cirrus.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by timshorts » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:07 pm

houseboy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:51 pm
I remember logarythms at school. I started secondary school and was immediately given a book full of numbers and I thought WTF is all this. I left 4 years later looking at the book and thinking WTF is all this.

Who uses logarythims? Someone must.
I rather liked that book of tables. What I hated was that slide rule thing. What the f was the point of that. They'd invented calculators. It's like having a washing machine but deciding that it's better to wash everything by hand.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by IanMcL » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:33 pm

Rowls wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm
I definitely exist because I'm here.

But you guys?

I'm not so sure.

You're most likely just part of my imagination.
I am
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 pm

In the same way that numbers make up mathematics, one probably needs 10 theories to make up the maths e.g.

Newton's theories + Einstein's theories - Niels Bohr's theory = Stadler and Winkler's theory of whatever, but there might be different signs than (+ =)

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:48 pm

... Anyway, I'm happy living way back in 1872 with Clara.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 pm

Rowls wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm
I definitely exist because I'm here.

But you guys?

I'm not so sure.

You're most likely just part of my imagination.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:52 pm

houseboy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:48 pm
A subject that has fascinated me for years but about which I know virtually nothing because as soon as you think you know something it's gone. Einstein I think referred to it as God playing dice with the universe. All I do know is that the two great ideas of physics, the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics are apparently totally incompatible. The quantum world is bizarre and bears no resemblance to the world in which we live and yet the world in which we live is built upon that very world.
Same. It’s fascinating but equally baffling.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:58 pm

How do you know there's a quantum world? Because Dogburger told you? It's a scam for political rule, I think.

If you watched the program last night (and hence my joke), they're in the Canaries having spent four years preparing for an experiment and then they get a call saying you'd better come off the mountain now, as the weather might make it dangerous driving back and they don't do it and go home.

They are in a building with all mod cons and they didn't have it in them to lounge on a sofa and nap whilst the data came in?

These folk are clever enough to fool everybody.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by tim_noone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:10 pm

Pstotto wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:58 pm
How do you know there's a quantum world? Because Dogburger told you? It's a scam for political rule, I think.

If you watched the program last night (and hence my joke), they're in the Canaries having spent four years preparing for an experiment and then they get a call saying you'd better come off the mountain now, as the weather might make it dangerous driving back and they don't do it and go home.

They are in a building with all mod cons and they didn't have it in them to lounge on a sofa and nap whilst the data came in?

These folk are clever enough to fool everybody.
"You think"? keep your eyes on that gate..

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:37 pm

What gate?

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by tim_noone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:55 pm

Pstotto wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:37 pm
What gate?
Pstotto quote: I think.... "The Thinker"

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:19 pm

I don't know what you're on about.

You're being cryptic, I can't work it out and I've got better things to do than wonder.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Rowls » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:39 am

Sproggy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:26 pm
Rowls, if your imagination is conjuring up some of the posters on here, you really need to speak to someone.....
I imagined you'd say that.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by atlantalad » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:57 am

Pstotto wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:19 pm
I don't know what you're on about.

You're being cryptic, I can't work it out and I've got better things to do than wonder.
Nice one Pstotto ..... it's a simple balance between renormalisation, gauge theory and the infinity conundrum.

;)
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Rowls » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:10 am

Pstotto wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 pm
In the same way that numbers make up mathematics, one probably needs 10 theories to make up the maths e.g.

Newton's theories + Einstein's theories - Niels Bohr's theory = Stadler and Winkler's theory of whatever, but there might be different signs than (+ =)
The universe is probably base 23 so we're gonna need 13 extra theories.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by atlantalad » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:25 am

Rowls wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:10 am
The universe is probably base 23 so we're gonna need 13 extra theories.
Apparently the magic number that explains everything is the fraction 1/137.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by jackmiggins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:24 am

The problem is that a ‘term’ is applied to things & that immediately applies boundaries to it - it’s the way we teach & understand. In reality, you have to understand that there are no boundaries & no dimensions. Once you’ve mastered that, any thought is possible.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:27 am

Quite clearly there are boundaries and dimensions, otherwise I wouldn't be able to perform the act of writing this post.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by jackmiggins » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:33 am

Only what you perceive as dimensions & boundaries.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:00 am

See my thread 'It's their perogative'...

Jack... Don't drive.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by HieronymousBoschHobs » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:19 am

Epistemology is a branch of philosophy.
You will not find an epistemologist outside of a philosophy department.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Spiral » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:58 am

jackmiggins wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:24 am
The problem is that a ‘term’ is applied to things & that immediately applies boundaries to it - it’s the way we teach & understand. In reality, you have to understand that there are no boundaries & no dimensions. Once you’ve mastered that, any thought is possible.
That's new-age b0llocks. Fun while you're high, but meaningless. There absolutely must be spatial and temporal boundaries. But for temporal boundaries a material object such as a specific dinosaur specimen could, hypothetically, within a degree of probability derived from the aligned aggregate probability of its constituent subatomic matter, simultaneously exist in our world while also being extinct. (Rather, not exist, along with its not-existing mates). This defies observed temporal reality. There comes a point where that creature's metabolic function becomes incapable of sustaining itself for any number of reasons and it dies, or a particle alters its state - or rather, has its state altered by a force - and a temporal 'boundary' (abstract as it were) exists between one infinitely small unit of time and the next, which defines the present reality (state, or approximation of state insofar as it can be measured and defined-(it can't, not precisely...it's more of a probability of state)), and distinguishes it from the not-present (which technically doesn't exist in the macro world). Entropy doesn't allow for an omelette to be uncooked. One could theoretically use a great and perfectly calibrated amount of energy to reconstitute the base materials of the cooked omelette into an approximation of an egg, but this wouldn't necessarily be 'un-cooking' the omelette. According to our best understanding of the universe there is no other corner of the universe in which that exact cooked omelette is also uncooked, nor its constituent matter simultaneously existing to defy spatial logic in order to form a dinosaur existing simultaneously over multiple temporal planes. The laws of nature prescribe these boundaries. Transcending spatial dimensions on a macro scale is in all likelihood materially impossible. Lower/higher dimensions might exist in a quantum mathematical conception of the universe, but Human consciousness is little more than the aggregate of electrical currents and chemical biology, both of which are macro in construction. There is no mechanism in the Human brain which in accordance with our best understanding of particle physics would allow us to even theoretically transcend the physical boundaries within which the brain and its constituent matter exists. The moment the quantum world resolves to become the macro, the moment probability is decided and physical reality - spatial and temporal - becomes law over the object. Any 'higher understanding' can only ever be abstract; that is to say, we might 'understand' the quantum world, even use it to our technological advantage, but we cannot by definition ever 'experience' it, and thus tangible 'mastery' of boundless dimensionality is unattainable.
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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Pstotto » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:09 am

If I boil an egg and then assume all eggs are boiled then according to quantum physics, when I go to the fridge and get out another it should be boiled if I think that it is but it's not.

However, quantum physics doesn't exist other than as part of a political conspiracy to destroy all value by saying it's just a construct.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by Spiral » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:45 pm

Pstotto wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:09 am
If I boil an egg and then assume all eggs are boiled then according to quantum physics, when I go to the fridge and get out another it should be boiled if I think that it is but it's not.

However, quantum physics doesn't exist other than as part of a political conspiracy to destroy all value by saying it's just a construct.
Eggs are made of quadrillions of subatomic particles, all of which would need to spontaneously and simultaneously reconstitute their state in a precise manner in order for the egg to resemble 'cooked' without us observing it or inputting energy into the system (i.e. flame, butter, cheese, contract for Barton etc etc etc.) The probability of every particle in the egg spontaneously reconstituting is outrageous, and so the physical state of the egg remains that is uncooked until you cook it. They are uncooked whether or not they are observed. The dead cat analogy (or cooked egg analogy, in this case) only applies to the quantum world, not the macro world. Houseboy said it best in that macro reality is built (emerges) from quantum 'weirdness'.

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Re: Quantum Physics BBC 4 (16.01.2020)

Post by atlantalad » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:03 am

Pstotto wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:09 am
If I boil an egg and then assume all eggs are boiled then according to quantum physics, when I go to the fridge and get out another it should be boiled if I think that it is but it's not.

However, quantum physics doesn't exist other than as part of a political conspiracy to destroy all value by saying it's just a construct.
what... ?? steady on...... who stores eggs in a fridge?

that's a greater strangeness than QED.

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