Sorry but you have to laugh

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 pm

At those wanting us to focus on an easy fa cup run.

We got into the 4th round ffs. Good for us maybe but how you can think that so early on I don't know...

Onwards and upwards in the competition that matters the most against Arsenal.

Take safety, more money and victory against the top teams any day compared to winning a cup.

We probably relegated Norwich today giving them another match and competition to think about. Tactical brilliance.

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:21 pm

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:28 pm

Is it easy to type with your head up Dyches arse?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:29 pm

I had to laugh when Norwich fans were singing..... You're effing sh*t, you're effing sh*t

And we responded with...... You're going down, you're going down

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:30 pm

Why does it have to be one to the exclusion of the other?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:31 pm

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:30 pm
Why does it have to be one to the exclusion of the other?

It’s this forums way.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:33 pm

And has anybody even mentioned focusing on an "easy" Cup run?

And where has the OP gone?

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:36 pm

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:30 pm
Why does it have to be one to the exclusion of the other?

Yep.

It was the cup runs and the momentum they brought that got us promoted under Coyle.

Heathclaret · Post by **Heathclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:21 pm

TsarBomba wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:36 pm
Yep.

It was the cup runs and the momentum they brought that got us promoted under Coyle.

You want Coyle back?

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:24 pm

TsarBomba wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:36 pm
Yep.

It was the cup runs and the momentum they brought that got us promoted under Coyle.

This is a different level of team to that one now. Also, the game has moved on in the last 10 years. Apart from that you have a point....

I’d love to see this team against the Coyle cup team. No comparison tbh

Heathclaret · Post by **Heathclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:25 pm

Some of you make me laugh. We’ve just beaten Leicester at home and Man UTD away and you want to complain about losing, what is these days considered by most, an insignificant cup match. The primary focus is to stay in this league. Let Norwich continue the draining cup run. We concentrate on survival.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:29 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:25 pm
Some of you make me laugh. We’ve just beaten Leicester at home and Man UTD away and you want to complain about losing, what is these days considered by most, an insignificant cup match. The primary focus is to stay in this league. Let Norwich continue the draining cup run. We concentrate on survival.

We can't manage both?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:32 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:25 pm
Some of you make me laugh. We’ve just beaten Leicester at home and Man UTD away and you want to complain about losing, what is these days considered by most, an insignificant cup match. The primary focus is to stay in this league. Let Norwich continue the draining cup run. We concentrate on survival.

Norwich have at most 3 Cup games before the end of the season. How draining is that likely to be?

The likes of Man City rotate their squad because their players have 38 league games, 15 European games, and a dozen or so international games each during the year. Our players, most of them, have just the 38 league games - is it asking too much to play 45 or so as if they were fourth division players?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:35 pm

Norwich at home in the cup was a huge game in years gone past - shows how far we've come that for the majority of us today's result was irrelevant

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:37 pm

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:38 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:35 pm
Norwich at home in the cup was a huge game in years gone past - shows how far we've come that for the majority of us today's result was irrelevant

We've never played Norwich before in the FA Cup and for the majority of us the result today was very relevant.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:40 pm

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:38 pm
We've never played Norwich before in the FA Cup and for the majority of us the result today was very relevant.

I said Cup not FA Cup - we played them over two legs in a league cup game, I went to both games because it was massive for us at the time

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:42 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:25 pm
Some of you make me laugh. We’ve just beaten Leicester at home and Man UTD away and you want to complain about losing, what is these days considered by most, an insignificant cup match. The primary focus is to stay in this league. Let Norwich continue the draining cup run. We concentrate on survival.

We are safe, what's to concentrate on??

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:51 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:21 pm
You want Coyle back?

Wait while Dyche goes then just watch the clamour for the Bolton legend to be brought back by some posters on here!

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:53 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:25 pm
Some of you make me laugh. We’ve just beaten Leicester at home and Man UTD away and you want to complain about losing, what is these days considered by most, an insignificant cup match. The primary focus is to stay in this league. Let Norwich continue the draining cup run. We concentrate on survival.

Even if they get to the final it's only an extra 4 games between now and May. How ever will they cope? The momentum of a cup run may even boost their league form, who knows?

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:54 pm

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:38 pm
We've never played Norwich before in the FA Cup and for the majority of us the result today was very relevant.

Lost 4-1 to Norwich in the FA cup under Eddie Howe, was that result relevant?

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:00 pm

NL Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:54 pm
Lost 4-1 to Norwich in the FA cup under Eddie Howe, was that result relevant?

Should have read never played Norwich at home in the FA Cup, and yes, of course, all Burnley results are relevant.

Heathclaret · Post by **Heathclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:03 pm

Well, I apologise, it’s not important to me. If it’s important to you, fair enough.

Norwich won’t win the FA cup, so perhaps staying in the competition won’t be that draining, but it will be a distraction.

Heathclaret · Post by **Heathclaret** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:06 pm

MACCA wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:42 pm
We are safe, what's to concentrate on??

Are we?

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:14 pm

Heathclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:06 pm
Are we?

Absolutely.

Theres no panic from boardroom or manager.

No panic from most fans either.

Rather go out of the cup and stay in the league is 99.9% of peoples opinion.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:25 pm

It’s not one or the other. Why does everybody think this? Do you get deducted points for winning cup games?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:05 am

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:53 pm
Even if they get to the final it's only an extra 4 games between now and May. How ever will they cope? The momentum of a cup run may even boost their league form, who knows?

That's what Daniel Farke will hope,i certainly wouldn't write them off just yet,if they can stay in touch until the final 6 games,then they have Brighton,Watford.West Ham,and Burnley in their run-in,by no means impossible they could amass a fair number of points from those games,winning breeds confidence no matter what the competition,and including today they now have 3 wins out of 5,all it takes is for them to hit a purple patch as watford did for 4/5 games and they could be back amongst the pack.

This is what's killing modern football teams obsess about staying in/securing a PL place,and it's even filtered down to the lower leagues,now if we were in the bottom 3,or close to the bottom 3,i could understand people dismissing today's cup exit,however the 6 points gained in the last week,has almost guaranteed our top flight status,and we hardly face a punishing schedule,in February we have 4 PL games,incorporating a mini winter break after the Arsenal game,and in March we only have 3 PL fixtures,i'd hardly say we're snowed under a hectic schedule with that workload,now that the inconvience of the FA cup has been removed,surely we can expect a strong points haul from those 7 matches,after all the league is our priority so we're told.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:10 am

Dyched wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:25 pm
It’s not one or the other. Why does everybody think this? Do you get deducted points for winning cup games?

Theres no middle ground here, its 1 extreme or another.

Similarly its like either spend nothing or spend 200m and be the next Portsmouth, Bolton or Blackpool.

Some struggle to grasp the concept of a middle ground...

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:14 am

No one said it has to be one or the other, but it certainly affects those negatively with something else to think about more than it doesn't.

I find it's just comical that some people would prefer us to have won today rather than in the league.

If you haven't seen the posts where people were promoting supposedly what a chance we have this year in the cup (after winning one round) I can only imagine you have been missing from the board over the past month or two.
God knows the kind of posts they would have made today if we would have won, perhaps near certainty the cup was ours?

I care about the future of the club and the club being its best, I'm glad Dyche is grounded and also thinks that way...otherwise we could be in League 1 by now hoping we get drawn to the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal which we can clearly beat now in the league.

If we keep staying in the league the better chance we'll have in the cup each year because of the improvements we will be able to make. There's absolutely no reason any club outside the top 6 (arguably top 3) should bother with the cup now.

It's just the way it is, times move on.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:32 am

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:14 am
No one said it has to be one or the other, but it certainly affects those negatively with something else to think about more than it doesn't.

I find it's just comical that some people would prefer us to have won today rather than in the league.

If you haven't seen the posts where people were promoting supposedly what a chance we have this year in the cup (after winning one round) I can only imagine you have been missing from the board over the past month or two.
God knows the kind of posts they would have made today if we would have won, perhaps near certainty the cup was ours?

I care about the future of the club and the club being its best, I'm glad Dyche is grounded and also thinks that way...otherwise we could be in League 1 by now hoping we get drawn to the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal which we can clearly beat now in the league.

If we keep staying in the league the better chance we'll have in the cup each year because of the improvements we will be able to make. There's absolutely no reason any club outside the top 6 (arguably top 3) should bother with the cup now.

It's just the way it is, times move on.

Playing Mee and Taylor, and starting McNeil instead of subbing him on probably wouldn't have killed our season. Goalkeepers are hardly affected by match fatigue, so start Pope instead of Hart, too, because he's basically useless. I'd have sacrificed a win against Arsenal for a win today. It's not comical to want to win a thing, or even put yourself in a position where you could fluke it on the day. We'll win other league matches before May. If we don't them we deserve to be relegated. But when you f.uck up in the cup it's done. Over. Competitively (where we looked like winning), our accumulative cup run - league and FA - must have lasted about 200 minutes this season. Bloody unforgivable considering we've played two league 1 teams and the undisputed worst side in the premier league this season. I'll back Dyche to the hilt because we won't get a better manager but he's downright testing my patience in the cups.

taffy · Post by **taffy** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:35 am

The winner of the fa Cup gets £3.6 million the runner up gets £1.8 million, staying in the Premier league is worth £120 million why would the club worry about staying in the Cup at the risk of injuries or fatigue and more games, we would all love to win the cup but the club really are not interested

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:39 am

It's b0llocks. Teams that get relegated get relegated because they aren't good enough for the premier league, not because their players get tired during a cup run. Even when Wigan won it, they were shyte all season long in the league and deserved to be relegated for being a useless team over a whole season.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:42 am

taffy wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:35 am
The winner of the fa Cup gets £3.6 million the runner up gets £1.8 million, staying in the Premier league is worth £120 million why would the club worry about staying in the Cup at the risk of injuries or fatigue and more games, we would all love to win the cup but the club really are not interested

Because the risk of fatigue is nil (17 games in 17 weeks is not beyond the capacity of our players) and the risk of injury is scarcely more than the risk of crashing their cars between here and Cheshire. If playing causes injury and not playing makes you fit, why have Gibson and Long both been out this season while Tarkowski and Mee have played almost every game?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:43 am

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:37 pm
4

3. I am counting games to the end of the league season; the FA Cup Final won't cause either tiredness or injury that could affect any league game.

MrMeeseeks · Post by **MrMeeseeks** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:43 am

Not sure where the idea people would have preferred us to win today than in the league comes from.

If it was just this defeat then I think most people would just accept that you can’t win ‘em all.

But it’s this game in the context of all the cup exits we’ve had to teams we should be putting away.

Lincoln, Sunderland, Burton, Accy, Port Vale.

People can see we rarely have the same motivation for cup games and it gets friggin frustrating.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:48 am

MrMeeseeks wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:43 am
Not sure where the idea people would have preferred us to win today than in the league comes from.

There wasn't.

There were people preferring an FA Cup final/win even if it meant us being relegated. They would have swapped the Wembley one-off final even if it meant we dropped to the Championship.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:06 am

There were people preferring an FA cup and relegation to survival but there were also people preferring a win today compared to a win vs Arsenal.

It's not just about physical fatigue, but form and mentality too. Its very hard, as we proved with the Europa league to pull the strings together for both league and cup.

We could finish a couple of places higher in the league and get more money than winning the FA cup or a single place for being runners up.

When we are fighting the way we are against teams of limitless cash every little counts...which is why most teams bar the top few without worrying about cash don't give a crap about the cup.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 am

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:06 am
There were people preferring an FA cup and relegation to survival but there were also people preferring a win today compared to a win vs Arsenal.

It's not just about physical fatigue, but form and mentality too. Its very hard, as we proved with the Europa league to pull the strings together for both league and cup.

We could finish a couple of places higher in the league and get more money than winning the FA cup or a single place for being runners up.

When we are fighting the way we are against teams of limitless cash every little counts...which is why most teams bar the top few without worrying about cash don't give a crap about the cup.

The way I saw it, is that people wanted a cup final. And if that meant relegation, then it's fine. So it was people who wanted a good day out, even though it meant we'd drop down to the Championship.

It's down to mentality. I'm seeing it from a business side. Others may see it purely from a spectator's side with the grounds they've been to.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:28 am

FactualFrank wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 am
The way I saw it, is that people wanted a cup final. And if that meant relegation, then it's fine. So it was people who wanted a good day out, even though it meant we'd drop down to the Championship.

It's down to mentality. I'm seeing it from a business side. Others may see it purely from a spectator's side with the grounds they've been to.

I think quite a lot of people weren't really looking at it as a Faustian pact, that we can guarantee a Cup Final but also guarantee relegation. I may be only speaking for myself here, but I reckon that a lot of people were looking at where we are now and thinking that EVEN IF we have to play as many as 17 games in 17 weeks, we can still go for a Cup Final without increasing our risk of relegation by a significant degree.

Life is about risk. Did you risk venturing out to Turf Moor today? Even though you were increasing your risks both of being in a car crash AND contracting coronavirus? If so, it was because you assessed the risks (probably subconsciously) and decided them to be acceptable.

No-one actually believes that if we reach Wembley, we will go down. Some people believe that if we reach Wembley, we increase our likelihood of going down; others believe that if we reach Wembley, we do not increase our likelihood of going down.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:32 am

dsr wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:28 am
I think quite a lot of people weren't really looking at it as a Faustian pact, that we can guarantee a Cup Final but also guarantee relegation. I may be only speaking for myself here, but I reckon that a lot of people were looking at where we are now and thinking that EVEN IF we have to play as many as 17 games in 17 weeks, we can still go for a Cup Final without increasing our risk of relegation by a significant degree.

Life is about risk. Did you risk venturing out to Turf Moor today? Even though you were increasing your risks both of being in a car crash AND contracting coronavirus? If so, it was because you assessed the risks (probably subconsciously) and decided them to be acceptable.

No-one actually believes that if we reach Wembley, we will go down. Some people believe that if we reach Wembley, we increase our likelihood of going down; others believe that if we reach Wembley, we do not increase our likelihood of going down.

No - people did say they would take relegation if it meant a cup final.

It's nothing to do with the chances of reaching Wembley and going down.

So we're very much going off track.

My question to you: Would you be relegated and win the FA Cup? Or would you not win the FA Cup but stay another season in the Prem? This, by the way, has nothing to do with what happens the season after.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:39 am

Norwich are relegated regardless of today's result. They've been relegated since the moment they stepped into this division.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:42 am

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:05 am
That's what Daniel Farke will hope,i certainly wouldn't write them off just yet,if they can stay in touch until the final 6 games,then they have Brighton,Watford.West Ham,and Burnley in their run-in,by no means impossible they could amass a fair number of points from those games,winning breeds confidence no matter what the competition,and including today they now have 3 wins out of 5,all it takes is for them to hit a purple patch as watford did for 4/5 games and they could be back amongst the pack.

This is what's killing modern football teams obsess about staying in/securing a PL place,and it's even filtered down to the lower leagues,now if we were in the bottom 3,or close to the bottom 3,i could understand people dismissing today's cup exit,however the 6 points gained in the last week,has almost guaranteed our top flight status,and we hardly face a punishing schedule,in February we have 4 PL games,incorporating a mini winter break after the Arsenal game,and in March we only have 3 PL fixtures,i'd hardly say we're snowed under a hectic schedule with that workload,now that the inconvience of the FA cup has been removed,surely we can expect a strong points haul from those 7 matches,after all the league is our priority so we're told.

Norwich have won 4 games out of 24, that’s 1 in 6. To stay in the Premier League they probably need to win 7 of their remaining 14, 1 in 2. Now it’s not entirely impossible that they will do that but I think it’s perfectly reasonable to write them off.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:49 am

FactualFrank wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:32 am
No - people did say they would take relegation if it meant a cup final.

It's nothing to do with the chances of reaching Wembley and going down.

So we're very much going off track.

My question to you: Would you be relegated and win the FA Cup? Or would you not win the FA Cup but stay another season in the Prem? This, by the way, has nothing to do with what happens the season after.

Are you actually offering me the choice? Can you give me an absolute guarantee that what I pick will come to pass?

What I will say is that I would try and win the FA Cup because I don't think it will materially affect our chances of staying up, and if it trivially affects our chances of staying up I would still go for it.

And if the Devil himself came along and offered this choice so I knew that my wishes would come to pass, I think I would say take the Cup and let the Championship season take care of itself. After all, which was the better season - the one under Owen Coyle where we got promotion and had the cup runs and reported a loss, or the one after when we didn't have a cup run, got relegated, and reported a profit? Go for glory. Go for fun. I know this much - when the Sheffield United Wembley final comes on Sky Sports repeats, it gets better viewing figures than the goalless draw at Middlesbrough that more or less made us safe in 2017.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:50 am

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:05 am
That's what Daniel Farke will hope,i certainly wouldn't write them off just yet,if they can stay in touch until the final 6 games,then they have Brighton,Watford.West Ham,and Burnley in their run-in,by no means impossible they could amass a fair number of points from those games,winning breeds confidence no matter what the competition,and including today they now have 3 wins out of 5,all it takes is for them to hit a purple patch as watford did for 4/5 games and they could be back amongst the pack.

That purple patch isn't coming though. They just don't have the quality. Their style of play leaves them open and vulnerable and other teams (including us) have the players who punish it. They're like us 10 years ago: fun to watch but the next battering is only just around the corner.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:51 am

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:38 pm
...and for the majority of us the result today was very relevant.

And you know this how, Royboy? Have you taken some kind of survey?
The paltry crowd would suggest not many give a monkey's.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:44 am

It's worth bearing in mind that for the last eleven seasons only Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United have won the FA Cup except for the season Wigan won it and they got relegated. I expect this hasn't escaped the Board's or Dyche's attention.

Also with a paper thin squad like ours they don't want to be playing two games a week in a relegation battle.

I don't like it but there is the reality.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:18 am

Bit of disrespect for Norwich is this post analysis. We got beat by a premier league team albeit a lowly one, and put out a strong team ourselves. People are you talking as if we could've gone through should we have tried s bit harder, which is just nonsense. By all accounts, Norwich played very well and we didn't. This isn't Man city or Liverpool going out to Norwich it's Burnley, hardly a cup shock. And it's not nearly the same as going out to Sunderland or Lincoln.

Terry Cochrane · Post by **Terry Cochrane** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:17 am

Fa Cup has always important to me. If Mid table safety is all our focus then we have lost our soul frankly.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:01 am

Terry Cochrane wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:17 am
Fa Cup has always important to me. If Mid table safety is all our focus then we have lost our soul frankly.

Mid table is a bit ambitious, let's just play it safe and aim for 17th every year.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:04 am

Royboyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:29 pm
We can't manage both?

You’ve seen the size and depth of our first team squad.... think you could probably answer this yourself.

If he goes all out with a cup run and Wood ends up with cruciate ligament damage, Pope knacks his shoulder and Westwood snaps a hamstring, Dyche is absolutely annihilated on here by the very people who are whinging about not prioritising a cup.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.