“I’ve not had a budget”

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boatshed bill
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:47 pm

claretspice wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:41 pm
We did some excellent business yesterday.

But - these comments from Dyche are not good from a PR perspective and they do detract a little bit from the good news story that should exist. He knows what the headline is - "I've not had a budget". It adds to a pattern of negative comments from Dyche, and the different but in their way similarly sombre comments of Garlick and Bentley, over an extended period. Bluntly, someone needs to put a knot in it.

Dyche is wrong, because he has had a budget. He chose to spend £25 million two summers ago on Gibson and Vydra during a summer when we didn't actually sell anyone of note. Garlick has also repeatedly said that there's money to spend. It's just that it is not enough to enable us to sign the players that Dyche wants to buy, which is a slightly different thing. He's not the first manager to make complaints over the size of his budget but it's not helpful, and the disconnect between him and Garlick lends the impression that the top of the club is not wholly aligned when it comes to transfer strategy.

Brownhill is an excellent signing and a ringing endorsement of what can be done. It'd be better for Dyche to package his message about the size of his budget in a more positive wrapper, reflecting the fact that we can compete, it just needs a bit more patience - and perhaps there is scope for some more creativity in certain positions.
Whilst i admit I don't always agree with you, this is an excellent post. (In my humble opinion, of course :D )

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:58 pm

claretspice wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:41 pm
Brownhill is an excellent signing and a ringing endorsement of what can be done. It'd be better for Dyche to package his message about the size of his budget in a more positive wrapper, reflecting the fact that we can compete, it just needs a bit more patience - and perhaps there is scope for some more creativity in certain positions.
Totally depends on the POV. You're saying it from the POV of a fan. He's not only talking to the fans when he mentions budget, so it doesn't have to be positive. If he comes out and says we have more to spend, any selling club could then expect a bit more when we make bids for players.

And as mentioned, it could also be mind games towards the board - saying he wants more.

And he wasn't wrong, because he may not have been given a budget - it may be a case of SD asking if funds can be released for Player A. That's not a stated budget given by the board.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:03 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:58 pm
Totally depends on the POV. You're saying it from the POV of a fan. He's not only talking to the fans when he mentions budget, so it doesn't have to be positive. If he comes out and says we have more to spend, any selling club could then expect a bit more when we make bids for players.

And as mentioned, it could also be mind games towards the board - saying he wants more.

And he wasn't wrong, because he may not have been given a budget - it may be a case of SD asking if funds can be released for Player A. That's not a stated budget given by the board.
To be fair I'm not sure about that, Frank, it's not the best of comments, and not the first. Remember, SD has always been out front about positive mentality, his little "mantras" are all over the place.It seems to go against his positive attitude. Is that a good way to attract players?

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Spijed » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:05 pm

houseboy wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:13 am
To many (including me) winning and making serious attempts to win trophies (as opposed to just surviving in a league that gives a good cash payout) is what it should be about.
How can we ever do that?

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Corky » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:13 pm

You see if you were a spin Doctor you would say that we don't have a budget as such we have known parameters within which we have to work and thus the budget is flexible within those parameters depending on who we target.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:15 pm

claretspice wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:41 pm
We did some excellent business yesterday.

But - these comments from Dyche are not good from a PR perspective and they do detract a little bit from the good news story that should exist. He knows what the headline is - "I've not had a budget". It adds to a pattern of negative comments from Dyche, and the different but in their way similarly sombre comments of Garlick and Bentley, over an extended period. Bluntly, someone needs to put a knot in it.

Dyche is wrong, because he has had a budget. He chose to spend £25 million two summers ago on Gibson and Vydra during a summer when we didn't actually sell anyone of note. Garlick has also repeatedly said that there's money to spend. It's just that it is not enough to enable us to sign the players that Dyche wants to buy, which is a slightly different thing. He's not the first manager to make complaints over the size of his budget but it's not helpful, and the disconnect between him and Garlick lends the impression that the top of the club is not wholly aligned when it comes to transfer strategy.

Brownhill is an excellent signing and a ringing endorsement of what can be done. It'd be better for Dyche to package his message about the size of his budget in a more positive wrapper, reflecting the fact that we can compete, it just needs a bit more patience - and perhaps there is scope for some more creativity in certain positions.
Can’t disagree with you much there CS.

I think SD has always had that underlying sarcasm / arrogance in his interviews and press conferences many of which end up on the right side of banter - but you can see that they are often a little dig at the club, it’s owners or sometimes the supporters (eg his Vydra comments the other week).
Over a period of time though when the discussion has been about the clubs finances / budgets his language has gone from understanding and being at ease with the way the club chooses to manage its finances and being on the same page as the chairman to some pretty disrespectful comments about suggesting they speak to the chairman and more and more about having no budget. He even decided to quote a figure for our “player wage bill” the other month to try and make a point - which is a totally irrelevant figure to any of us who understand the finances of the club and the way we structure bonuses etc. The whole point of him saying this was that so some people would think a wage bill of nearer to £60m rather than the actual one of nearly £82m was still one of the lowest ones in the league...doesn’t understand why he has no budget etc ?

The facts of the matter are like you say he has made a few expensive mistakes in the market which have used up most of any transfer budget / surplus we had and more relevant pushed up the wage bill to a figure where we now have little room for manoeuvre without losing players probably at a loss - which then of course need replacing and more transfer fees found etc.

I’ve never criticised the failed transfers because I still believe SD has always got a lot more right than he has wrong - and that is a pure fact. And few clubs on this league have as good as an overall transfer record as SD over the period he has been here.
But the problem is and always has been that it was only ever going to take 3 or 4 of our bigger transfers to not work out over the same period we had not made one of our big profits on player sales for us to end up in this position of having a lot less money to play with in the transfer market.

The disappointing thing is that SD 100% knows and understands the exact position of the club but that he now chooses to act a bit dumb.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:15 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:03 pm
To be fair I'm not sure about that, Frank, it's not the best of comments, and not the first. Remember, SD has always been out front about positive mentality, his little "mantras" are all over the place.It seems to go against his positive attitude. Is that a good way to attract players?
Attract players? Not sure how much that would come into it. Only pro footballers would know that, but I'd think so long as a club can pay them X amount per month, the majority would be happy. Especially with what looks like at least 18 months of football in the Premier League.

The only benefit of coming out with a more positive spin on budget, is the fans feeling happier. Well I'm not sure he's too concerned about that in that respect, as it's about winning games and staying in the Premier League. That's his job. Not to make the fans feel upbeat, if it means selling clubs thinking we have a fair bit of cash to splash about.

I guess it depends on what angle you look at it from and what other angles you can appreciate. But I'm not having this about him NEEDING to be more positive. It is what it is.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Spijed » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:19 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:15 pm

The facts of the matter are like you say he has made a few expensive mistakes in the market which have used up most of any transfer budget / surplus we had and more relevant pushed up the wage bill to a figure where we now have little room for manoeuvre without losing players probably at a loss - which then of course need replacing and more transfer fees found etc.
It's impossible not to make expensive mistakes in football.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:30 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:19 pm
It's impossible not to make expensive mistakes in football.
I know - it’s just it impacts clubs like ours a lot more.
Each club will have its own definition of what it regards as “too many” expensive mistakes. Our threshold is clearly a lot lot lower than many and it looks like we have been close to it in the last 12 or 18 months.
It is what it is.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:38 pm
It is believed that we give all additional TV prize monies earned above 18th place to the football staff - there are almost certainly bonus clauses for the cups too - it is more or less impossible to be any more aggressive with the bonus for the League unless the sponsors throw in additional monies
Hi Chester, my guess is that we are a little more cautious with league finish bonuses: bonus for finishing above 18th will be the largest part of end of season bonus; I'd expect some of the above 18th tv money to be kept back by the club for other costs and contribute towards reserves/rainy day money - where else will reserves be built from, otherwise? Whether the lfb is split, senior players, number starts, number of appearances, etc and whether it is a straight "cash" award - i.e. same cash for every player, or it is percent of base salary, would be interesting to know. Then I wonder if there is an element for players out with long term injuries, Tom Heaton, for example, injured in Palace game in Sept and not back until the following season....?

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by houseboy » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:58 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:05 pm
How can we ever do that?
How can we not is more the question. The ONLY thing that is realistically out of our reach is the PL itself. The cups are within reach of almost anyone in the top two divisions because the big boys don't take it seriously (unless they get to the last 8 or so) and any of the other divisions (hopefully no lower than the Championship) are well within our grasp (as we have proved twice in the last few years).

We are capapble of winning anything other than the PL if we take it seriously (but that is a whole other argument ;) ).

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:12 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:15 pm
He even decided to quote a figure for our “player wage bill” the other month to try and make a point - which is a totally irrelevant figure to any of us who understand the finances of the club and the way we structure bonuses etc. The whole point of him saying this was that so some people would think a wage bill of nearer to £60m rather than the actual one of nearly £82m was still one of the lowest ones in the league...doesn’t understand why he has no budget etc ?
Hi TVC15, we've got another 9 weeks or so and we will be able to see Burnley's financial report for y/end 30-June-2019. The previous year our "cost of employment of players, coaching team and all other Burnley staff" was (just under) £82m. These figures include Employer's national insurance - which is (w/out looking it up) 13.8% of wages (above the starting level). Of course, when Sean speaks of "£60m" we don't know if (1) he's referring to the same period as we've already seen the accounts (2 seasons back, effectively); (2) whether they include some element of player bonuses and (3) whether he is including ERNIC - which will be £8m on top of £60m.

Remember one or two on here refer to going into a car showroom to buy a car. I think we all know the first question the salesperson is trained to ask is "how much do you want to spend....?" and, a "smart" car buyer is the one that replies..."I don't have a budget....show me what you have got...."

UTC

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:12 pm
Hi TVC15, we've got another 9 weeks or so and we will be able to see Burnley's financial report for y/end 30-June-2019. The previous year our "cost of employment of players, coaching team and all other Burnley staff" was (just under) £82m. These figures include Employer's national insurance - which is (w/out looking it up) 13.8% of wages (above the starting level). Of course, when Sean speaks of "£60m" we don't know if (1) he's referring to the same period as we've already seen the accounts (2 seasons back, effectively); (2) whether they include some element of player bonuses and (3) whether he is including ERNIC - which will be £8m on top of £60m.

Remember one or two on here refer to going into a car showroom to buy a car. I think we all know the first question the salesperson is trained to ask is "how much do you want to spend....?" and, a "smart" car buyer is the one that replies..."I don't have a budget....show me what you have got...."

UTC
Hi PW

I’m usually happy to give SD the benefit of any doubt and I’m not being overly critical here - how can I be to the manager who has performed miracles at our club.
But when he was quoting the £58m wages he knew what he was doing and he knew what year they relayed to.

Listen - if he wants to put a spin on certain things for whatever reason then that’s totally up to him. In this case I don’t really see the point though as it’s the reality of our transfer and wages budgets situation that counts.
Even if a few people fall for the spin and think that the owners are denying him spend and he is the good guy / them the bad guys it doesn’t get him anymore budget !

When you have been at a club for as long as SD has and are as close to the chairman and board as he has always said he is then there is no way IMHO that you don’t know the budget constraints and parameters you are working within and also the reasons for these. It’s for this reason that I am a bit concerned as to why he is doing it and whether there are issues behind this connected to either him or the club in terms of the future (him leaving, the club being sold etc)

I get your comparison to buying a car but there is also little point in pretending you have more money / budget than you have because when it comes to buying the car it ain’t happening !!

UTC

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by KateR » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:07 pm

Whitgord wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:52 pm
Football is not “a normal business” by so many definitions. Not least the fact that most clubs are willing to, and indeed have to, run at a loss to carry on existing. What other business sector is like that. Therefore to compare football to other businesses is pointless. At the end of the day football survives because there are enough wealthy benefactors to keep clubs going and football authorities who don’t want to see the game collapse entirely.
Football is a business, not sure what you call a normal business, but you can take a few examples if you like, start up businesses, have an idea, sell it, or have a passion, I'll market it and sell it, I'll start a charity because I'm enthusiast about it, all these types of business have the same common theme as BFC, the people involved at the top have a passion. They are willing to risk there house, their savings in the hope of moving forward, growing, getting better, people start businesses in their parents garages and only their passion/drive means the succeed, they weren't even millionaires let alone billionaires.

Football does differ in that wealthy people are willing to put money in to the game/club and are willing to take a loss, I'm confident when I say owners of Man U, Man City were not brought up as fans, they didn't have a passion for that club in the way everyone on here has, put Everton, Arsenal in the same bracket. Look at Spurs, there you have a passion, the guy just has a lot more money that MG so he can afford more risk, lose more but he is first and foremost a business man and the club is run like a business like all football clubs. All clubs in the PL are part of a much larger business, Sky, clubs spend money to suit there budgets, some clubs were so wealthy the owners did not even notice if they lost a Billion, hence Fair Play in terms of spending power and a need dare I say to balance the books.

Anyone who thinks MG does not look at the books and balance them is in my humble opinion just not interested to know/understand the facts. The football side of things is the end product, but you can be in League two and still be selling your football, you just don't get paid as much for your product output. Many club owners change hands, typically for business reasons, not because some Billionaire in Kazakhstan is a fan of that club, there is money to spare, put it to work, not necessarily to make money but for, prestige, advertising, recognition of the product your selling world wide that is your core business generator. It can even be for tax reasons, but at the end of the day it's a business, I was merely just trying to equate some parts of BFC to a "normal" business and how the all fit and why SD says he has no budget and how the recruitment strategy is the BD side of things and should be the ones who present the Yearly Business Plan from which the recruitment budget is derived from.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:13 pm

houseboy wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:58 pm
The cups are within reach of almost anyone in the top two divisions because the big boys don't take it seriously
FA Cup winners last 20 years Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, WIGAN, Chelsea, Man City, Chelsea, Chelsea, PORTSMOUTH, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.....

League Cup Winners last 20 years Man City, Man City, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Man City, SWANSEA, Liverpool, BIRMINGHAM, Man Utd, Man Utd, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd, Chelsea, MIDDLESBROUGH, Liverpool, BLACKBURN, LEICESTER, Tottenham

6 non big club wins in the last 40 competitions, suggests that they take it pretty seriously to be honest, and looking at the trend of the last 10 years, they appear to be taking them more seriously.
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:19 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:13 pm
FA Cup winners last 20 years Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, WIGAN, Chelsea, Man City, Chelsea, Chelsea, PORTSMOUTH, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.....

League Cup Winners last 20 years Man City, Man City, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Man City, SWANSEA, Liverpool, BIRMINGHAM, Man Utd, Man Utd, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd, Chelsea, MIDDLESBROUGH, Liverpool, BLACKBURN, LEICESTER, Tottenham

6 non big club wins in the last 40 competitions, suggests that they take it pretty seriously to be honest, and looking at the trend of the last 10 years, they appear to be taking them more seriously.

In fairness if you take out Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, LIverpool & Arsenal you can see the big 6 don't take cups serious
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:51 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:13 pm
FA Cup winners last 20 years Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, WIGAN, Chelsea, Man City, Chelsea, Chelsea, PORTSMOUTH, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.....

League Cup Winners last 20 years Man City, Man City, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Man City, SWANSEA, Liverpool, BIRMINGHAM, Man Utd, Man Utd, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd, Chelsea, MIDDLESBROUGH, Liverpool, BLACKBURN, LEICESTER, Tottenham

6 non big club wins in the last 40 competitions, suggests that they take it pretty seriously to be honest, and looking at the trend of the last 10 years, they appear to be taking them more seriously.
You could argue that the stats more reflect the trend towards all the other teams in the Prem League and even the Championship taking it less serously and playing weakened teams.

The fact that all teams use the cup for squad rotation until the latter stages actually increases the advantage of the big teams as the caliber of their second string is even further ahead than that of their first team
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Ilkley claret » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:04 pm

“Having no cash or budget” is all part of an orchestrated narrative that the club have developed to dumb down other clubs expectations when they are dealing with us.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:21 pm

Ilkley claret wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:04 pm
“Having no cash or budget” is all part of an orchestrated narrative that the club have developed to dumb down other clubs expectations when they are dealing with us.
Then it's time they scrapped it.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by houseboy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:26 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:13 pm
FA Cup winners last 20 years Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, WIGAN, Chelsea, Man City, Chelsea, Chelsea, PORTSMOUTH, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Arsenal, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.....

League Cup Winners last 20 years Man City, Man City, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Man City, SWANSEA, Liverpool, BIRMINGHAM, Man Utd, Man Utd, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd, Chelsea, MIDDLESBROUGH, Liverpool, BLACKBURN, LEICESTER, Tottenham

6 non big club wins in the last 40 competitions, suggests that they take it pretty seriously to be honest, and looking at the trend of the last 10 years, they appear to be taking them more seriously.
Without realising it you have just proved me right haven’t you. Thanks.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by dandeclaret » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:54 am

houseboy wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:26 am
Without realising it you have just proved me right haven’t you. Thanks.
Go on then..... I'm intrigued? Unless of course you're suggesting that no clubs are taking it seriously, making it easy for the big clubs to just win it. But I doubt anybody would make such a ridiculous suggestion.

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:35 am

All it means when Dyche says he doesn’t have a budget is that he isn’t given a pot to spend as he chooses. Akin to having a Director of Football in a sense.

That’s a good thing. Dyche isn’t trained in managing money, he is trained in football. He proposes actions on buying or selling players, one or two board members then decide. He may whine about it of course, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

(I am critical of the board for being too scrooge-like, though they have just made one good signing, but that is another issue to Dyche not having full control of money)

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:47 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:35 am
All it means when Dyche says he doesn’t have a budget is that he isn’t given a pot to spend as he chooses. Akin to having a Director of Football in a sense.

That’s a good thing. Dyche isn’t trained in managing money, he is trained in football. He proposes actions on buying or selling players, one or two board members then decide. He may whine about it of course, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

(I am critical of the board for being too scrooge-like, though they have just made one good signing, but that is another issue to Dyche not having full control of money)
Why are you critical ?
We don’t know what budget was made available firstly. And what have you seen in our accounts which would suggest they are “scrooge like” ?

The current position and constraints are simply a result of previous expensive player purchases that have not gone as planned combined with the fact that we haven’t sold any of our players at a large profit for a while (which is a good thing).
I’m not criticising the transfers that have not gone well btw - just explaining why now we have less money to spend. Our wage bill is at a record level and we will still have money to pay in transfer fees for the players bought in the last couple of years.
Hopefully in the summer we will be freeing up at least £10m of wages...but we still have the issue of finding budget for transfer fees (we should have some)

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by scouseclaret » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:16 am

"The actual business thinking is fair of most businesses who want to streamline and don't want to put a lot in but want to get a lot out.“

Am I reading too much into this statement, or is SD suggesting that our owners are making money out of the club?

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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:18 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:47 am
Why are you critical ?
We don’t know what budget was made available firstly. And what have you seen in our accounts which would suggest they are “scrooge like” ?

The current position and constraints are simply a result of previous expensive player purchases that have not gone as planned combined with the fact that we haven’t sold any of our players at a large profit for a while (which is a good thing).
I’m not criticising the transfers that have not gone well btw - just explaining why now we have less money to spend. Our wage bill is at a record level and we will still have money to pay in transfer fees for the players bought in the last couple of years.
Hopefully in the summer we will be freeing up at least £10m of wages...but we still have the issue of finding budget for transfer fees (we should have some)
I could name many things, such as hardly anything being spent on normal fans despite income approaching £1 billion in the last 10 years. I could also quote dozens of comments from Dyche implying frustration. I could mention my 30 years experience advising huge organisations (public and private) about their spending. So I’m fairly comfortable in my criticism (though if they had done a Bolton I would be more critical).

But as I said, that is a different issue to the thread at hand.

Buxtonclaret
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:08 pm
I would guess (I am not an accountant) that from an accounts position of

wages - renewed deals and signings since last accounts means basic wages probably around £65m for football staff then bonuses so £75m - £85m
Amortisation - following the signings of - Hart, Vydra, Gibson, Pieters, Peacock-Farrell and Jay is likely to be up over £35m and probably more given Defour, Heaton and Vokes are the only significant player outgoings with little accounts value (so good book profit on two of them)

Income of £125 - £130m doesn't leave much when you add other staff costs. upgrades and maintenance to facilities - I suspect we spend £1m+ on pitch maintenance alone between the Turf and Gawthorpe

You can talk sense as much as you want, for as long as you want, Chester. It'll not penetrate in some places.

TVC15
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:44 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:18 pm
I could name many things, such as hardly anything being spent on normal fans despite income approaching £1 billion in the last 10 years. I could also quote dozens of comments from Dyche implying frustration. I could mention my 30 years experience advising huge organisations (public and private) about their spending. So I’m fairly comfortable in my criticism (though if they had done a Bolton I would be more critical).

But as I said, that is a different issue to the thread at hand.
Your experience has got nothing to do with it - just like my years of being the Bank relationship manager for several football clubs a lot bigger than Burnley has got nothing to do with it.

Forget what Dyche has got to say too - he’s had plenty of money to spend - and he deserved it too given he was the main person responsible for generating £400m of revenues in the last 7 years (think you may be inflating the 10 year revenues a tad).

I agree we should have spent more on the fans facilities - but the training ground investment was far more important (we should have done both). But other than that there is no evidence at all in our accounts that they have been Scrooge like - with your background it should be pretty easy to work out that from our financials

houseboy
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by houseboy » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:00 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:54 am
Go on then..... I'm intrigued? Unless of course you're suggesting that no clubs are taking it seriously, making it easy for the big clubs to just win it. But I doubt anybody would make such a ridiculous suggestion.
You proved that you don’t have to be a big 6 club to win it. Check your list.

CrosspoolClarets
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:37 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:44 pm
Your experience has got nothing to do with it - just like my years of being the Bank relationship manager for several football clubs a lot bigger than Burnley has got nothing to do with it.

Forget what Dyche has got to say too - he’s had plenty of money to spend - and he deserved it too given he was the main person responsible for generating £400m of revenues in the last 7 years (think you may be inflating the 10 year revenues a tad).

I agree we should have spent more on the fans facilities - but the training ground investment was far more important (we should have done both). But other than that there is no evidence at all in our accounts that they have been Scrooge like - with your background it should be pretty easy to work out that from our financials
I suspect you have homed in on my sentence but are actually not too far away from my thinking. Perhaps we are in two different financial professions, one more cautious than the other? Our experience is vitally important though - that’s where judgement comes from, as well as from facts (accounts can tell many stories, not all accurate ones, even when correctly prepared).

I already praised the board for not doing a Bolton, so any criticism is more on the margins than that.

You say we should have done both - I agree. You also say the training ground should come first - I agree.

Regarding the players, my guess without checking is that about £10m p.a. is the amount we could have spent more by while still being cautious. Not massive, but not seizing the moment.

Regarding the facilities, five things would seem to me to be virtually factual, and we could use wider UK infrastructure outside football as an example:

1. Infrastructure has to be built from debt, not cash.
2. Debt is currently at one of its cheapest ever levels.
3. Facilities are currently crumbling in places.
4. It is very hard in an economic model to prove that new infrastructure will be self financing.
5. Upgrading them is very important to customers and their long term use of those facilties.

For those things one could argue that we could be talking about northern railways and / or BFC stands. The former is about to be improved with a change in mindset. I would pray that the latter does the same.

rob63
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by rob63 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:10 am

Dark Cloud wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:47 am
Absolutely, and when Utd (for example) decide (stupidly imo) to shell out £80 million for Maguire, I know a lot of us simply laugh out loud into our beer and think "daft buggers!!", but actually my heart sinks because that then means the extremely average Robby Brady's of this world are suddenly £20 million pound players (with wages to match!) and they're definitely not!! The negative knock on effects to clubs like us of confetti money transfers transfers between the "massive" clubs is enormous.
I hope Robbie Brady IS a £20m player, then we can cash in at the summer window! Kerching
This user liked this post: Dark Cloud

TVC15
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Re: “I’ve not had a budget”

Post by TVC15 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:55 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:37 pm

For those things one could argue that we could be talking about northern railways and / or BFC stands. The former is about to be improved with a change in mindset. I would pray that the latter does the same.
BFC stands are nothing like Northern Rail.

It’s easy to get a seat.
It’s cheap.
The game is always on time.
It’s not cancelled every Saturday with a replacement game at Blackburn offered up as the only alternative

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