Pivotal Summer window ahead for Burnley

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Looking at our current play contracts with have seven out of contract in Summer.

They are:

Jeff Hendrick
Ashley Westwood (1yr option)
Robbie Brady (1 yr option)
Phil Bardsley
Joe Hart
Adam Legzdins

Presumably we'll take up the extra year on Westwood, at least, the rest could walk for free. Bare in mind we're likely to see McNeil on his way in summer also for a big fee, Vydra and Gibson are also likely to push for moves. That could mean as many as 8 or 9 out.

Could we be looking a massive window of changes in the squad?

[Vegas Claret]

well we will deffo take the option on Wetwood. Hopefully Jeff will realise most people fail after leaving the Clarets...........the rest, not arsed

[Tricky Trevor]

Bare in mind we're likely to see McNeil on his way in summer also for a big free,

Am I reading that right? You think McNeil will leave for free? Or is it the frees after tge comma for Vydra & Gibson? Either way it sounds odd.
McNeil on current form was worth more last Summer.

[mdd2]

I do not think the Club will allow Westy or Brady to leave as we will not be able to get in 7 quality replacements. We need to be able to ensure we have fewer of the Vydra, Gibson (although he may stay and play if Tarks leaves), Hennings, Jukkiewicz, Vosen, Ulvestad Sordell, Long (lad from Everton), Wells, Walters, Reid and a few others that I may have missed who have cost us money either with transfer fees or signing on fees (if they still exist) and play few or no games. Not certain what that lot cost us but it will be a few quid.
I know we made a profit on Heats, Vokes, Ings, Tripps, Keane, Gray and got some of the money we paid for Wells and a few others on that list above but I think most if not all left as a financial loss to the club.
We will make quite a financial loss if Jeff Hendrick and Joe Hart leave in the summer.
CT and others will have some idea of how many (if any) of the under 23 squad could be in our squad from 2020 onwards.
If none then it is hard to see more than Jeff and Joe leaving from that list plus Vydra and maybe Gibson.
Do not see the point of paying money for a third keeper if Legzdins wants to stay on

[claretspice]

It will need to be busier than previous summers but it wont be as busy as some people are predicting I dont think.

For example we might well see Peacock Farrell replace Hart on the bench- so that is immediately one less vacancy to fill.

Equally I dont know if it's that likely we will sign all of a central midfielder, winger and striker. It might be that we sign a wide player who can play up front or in midfield - particularly if we think there are young players in the club who can step up.

That immediately reduces the shopping list- assuming Gibson and Vydra are leaving - to a more manageable 4 players. Its probably one more than would be ideal but that was probably a mistake made last summer rather than now. Of course we might also have to manage the departure if one of our star names but its fairly unlikely we will see two of them leave in the same window I think.

Weve got conditioned to a senior squad of 24 (25 if you count BPF) but as weve seen with Vydra and Gibson that might be a touch too big to keep all players happy. 21ish is probably more optimal, if you've got a pack of younger players who can provide the next layer of depth. We're still on that journey but if weve a few who are close to being able to step up it wont half help.

[PremierLeagueClass]

I doubt there will be any serious interest in McNeil.

We are in an excellent position to hold onto players these days. There’s only maybe 10 clubs in England now with the clout to come and poach our players.

He simply isn’t at the level where the big boys would be interested. Whether he will get to that level remains to be seen.

[mdd2]

It will need to be busier than previous summers but it wont be as busy as some people are predicting I dont think.
Weve got conditioned to a senior squad of 24 (25 if you count BPF) but as weve seen with Vydra and Gibson that might be a touch too big to keep all players happy. 21ish is probably more optimal, if you've got a pack of younger players who can provide the next layer of depth. We're still on that journey but if weve a few who are close to being able to step up it wont half help.

I think it is the step up of the younger players that is needed for us to survive in the Prem League but whether those lads will come through soon enough or not at all is the big question. I cannot think 21 is a good number as it would only be 18+3 keepers so from a squad of 21 if you have 3 out injured you could only have 17 named and would need a youngster on the bench who should be capable of playing if needed. Do we have any of the under 23 squad who could play next season?

[FeedTheArf]

It’s the kind of summer you used to relish when playing Football Manager!

Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll be able to get enough deals over the line meaning the transformation might not be as dramatic as it could/should be. I think we’ll end up giving Brady his option and would like to think we can keep hold of Westwood.Would hope Lennon and Hart will be off though

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Am I reading that right? You think McNeil will leave for free? Or is it the frees after tge comma for Vydra & Gibson? Either way it sounds odd.
McNeil on current form was worth more last Summer.

Obviously meant "fee"

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

I agree with most that its going to be a challenge to get in 5 or 6 players as replacements, especially given how its worked out for Gibson and Vydra. Would many championship players want to gamble based on how their careers have stalled with us?

Next season could be our most challenging in the top flight by a long way.

[FactualFrank]

Jeff Hendrick
Ashley Westwood (1yr option)
Robbie Brady (1 yr option)
Phil Bardsley
Joe Hart
Adam Legzdins

Hart (option of 12 month extension)
Lennon
Dunne (option of 12 month extension)
(and Aiden O’Neill)

[FactualFrank]

I agree with most that its going to be a challenge to get in 5 or 6 players as replacements, especially given how its worked out for Gibson and Vydra. Would many championship players want to gamble based on how their careers have stalled with us?

Next season could be our most challenging in the top flight by a long way.

I disagree. For a start, we need squad players. We need good players on the bench. Gibson is a solid defender who hasn't had much chance due to Ben Mee not getting nasty injuries and being our captain. Had Ben Mee broken his leg, we'd have had Gibson to step in and fans would have been thanking our lucky stars that we had the foresight to sign a quality defender in case of injury.

This is how football works. You don't just have 11 men and then fill the bench with any old tat.

The fact that we've had quality on the bench is a GOOD thing - it shows how far we have come.

We can't be expected to sign a £1 million player because he's happy to pick up his pay cheque and hardly play any minutes. We want quality players who are good enough to step in, if/when injuries occur. Just because the injuries didn't occur, is irrelevant.

[Spijed]

We'll certainly take up the extra year for Brady as it would be daft not to.

We are not going to let a play go for nothing if we can help it.

[Rammy1968]

What about Wood, JBG, Tarks and Pope. They have all come from lower leagues and proved a success so Vydra hasn’t been good enough and Gibson has been unlucky through injury and Ben Mees form. Also take Ings, Heaton, Trips, Keane, Gray into consideration and what our club has done for them getting them in the England squads and getting them dream moves to big clubs why would players not want to come to Burnley. UTC

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

I disagree. For a start, we need squad players. We need good players on the bench. Gibson is a solid defender who hasn't had much chance due to Ben Mee not getting nasty injuries and being our captain. Had Ben Mee broken his leg, we'd have had Gibson to step in and fans would have been thanking our lucky stars that we had the foresight to sign a quality defender in case of injury.

This is how football works. You don't just have 11 men and then fill the bench with any old tat.

The fact that we've had quality on the bench is a GOOD thing - it shows how far we have come.

We can't be expected to sign a £1 million player because he's happy to pick up his pay cheque and hardly play any minutes. We want quality players who are good enough to step in, if/when injuries occur. Just because the injuries didn't occur, is irrelevant.

Obviously we need squad players, I haven't disputed that, but is our bench that good?

We paid 25m+ for Vydra and Gibson and neither of them have challenged for their positions. They've had chances in cup games etc and not delivered.

We need players to come in to improve the starting 11. Something thats going to be extremely difficult if we need 5 or 6 players minnimum to make up the basic squad.

Can you see Burnley spending 30-40m on 2 out of the 5 or 6?

Thats why next season could be the most challenging we've faced.

[agreenwood]

I’m with Spice. I actually think we’ll take up the option on Brady. Dyche seems to rate him and releasing a once-record signing for free isn’t a good look.

Don’t be surprised if it’s another summer of tinkering with the depth of the squad again.

[jrgbfc]

I’m with Spice. I actually think we’ll take up the option on Brady. Dyche seems to rate him and releasing a once-record signing for free isn’t a good look.

Don’t be surprised if it’s another summer of tinkering with the depth of the squad again.

I think for the sake of his career Brady needs to move on and try and play regularly somewhere. He looks like his confidence is shot and if he stays with us he's never going to be more than a backup to McNeil.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Said it on too many threads. August and in particular January were huge windows for us as we build for next year.

Is January overpriced and difficult? Perhaps. But that’s our own problem.

Two players this window would've made a huge difference going into august.

[FactualFrank]

Obviously we need squad players, I haven't disputed that, but is our bench that good?

We paid 25m+ for Vydra and Gibson and neither of them have challenged for their positions. They've had chances in cup games etc and not delivered.

We need players to come in to improve the starting 11. Something thats going to be extremely difficult if we need 5 or 6 players minnimum to make up the basic squad.

Can you see Burnley spending 30-40m on 2 out of the 5 or 6?

Thats why next season could be the most challenging we've faced.

I don't think it's as bad as you're portraying, at all.

[agreenwood]

The other thing is what people are suggesting will need to happen isn’t in keeping with what the club are saying about finances and the fact that our recruitment is now almost exclusively geared towards the very expensive Championship market.

We don’t but from overseas or the lower leagues. We don’t tend to sign in players below the age of 24/25 unless they are for the U23s. If we’re recruiting from the PL it tends to be players over the age of 30.

How does all of that square with a very active summer?

[cricketfieldclarets]

The other thing is what people are suggesting will need to happen isn’t in keeping with what the club are saying about finances and the fact that our recruitment is now almost exclusively geared towards the very expensive Championship market.

We don’t but from overseas or the lower leagues. We don’t tend to sign in players below the age of 24/25 unless they are for the U23s. If we’re recruiting from the PL it tends to be players over the age of 30.

How does all of that square with a very active summer?

That’s why pushing the boat out early on this month would have been a sensible gamble from us for Bowen.

[NL Claret]

That’s why pushing the boat out early on this month would have been a sensible gamble from us for Bowen.

That's if the player or his agent wanted him to come to Burnley in the first place or accept the first offer on the table in the window.

I don't get this we should do our business early in the window when the players and agent hold the aces. It might be different on computer games.

[claretspice]

I’m with Spice. I actually think we’ll take up the option on Brady. Dyche seems to rate him and releasing a once-record signing for free isn’t a good look.

Don’t be surprised if it’s another summer of tinkering with the depth of the squad again.

I'm sure we will take up the option on Brady. I cant imagine why we wouldnt. If we can get ourselves to a position when we're confident of being safe before the end of the season I'd expect us to try and give him a proper run of games because that's what hes lacked.

I saw someone questioning the idea 21 players is optimum squad size above. It may be true that it means you only have 3 spare players off the bench. But you can only use 3 subs anyway so it's a bit of a red herring. It's by having too many players to regularly involve them in the first team squad that you end up with discontent - and wasting 30k+ a week on players who dont play. That's north of 5 million quid a year.

Take spurs - they've never had more than 2 out and out strikers on the books since they became successful, despite the fact Kane gets injured fairly regularly. They just have more flexible players within the squad.

I suspect 3-4 first teamers is what we're looking at this summer. It might be that we supplement that with some "ones for the future" to provide that strength at development squad level if the kids aren't deemed up to providing emergency cover, but realistically that's about it. The squads got too big.

[claretspice]

That’s why pushing the boat out early on this month would have been a sensible gamble from us for Bowen.

Fantasy land I'm afraid. If he was holding out to be West Hams highest earner yesterday themn he wasnt falling into the arms of the first bidder 3 weeks ago.

[jojomk1]

We don't need any more squad players unless young with good potential
We need better players to replace the likes of Bards, Lowton, Peiters, Lennon, Cork, Brady
The above can then become the "squad" players or leave

[Dark Cloud]

Never mind a "pivotal summer window", let's get past a "pivotal 2 and a half months" or it will all become completely irrelevant!

[DCWat]

We have a couple of good cards in our hand with Vydra and Gibson. They both appear to have attracted interest and could be useful makeweights in our summer dealings. Both are decent players, not that we’ve seen this and I’m not convinced that Dyche has much faith in either.

Our right hand side will be a key area to address in the summer, a right back and a right winger (who can hopefully fill in up front) although it’ll be interesting to see how we utilise Brownhill.

After this, I would expect centre half and midfield to be the main areas of focus, particularly if some of the potential outgoings materialise.

[jurek]

Agree that the summer will be pivotal and much may depend on
whether we have any youngsters likely to be good enough to make the first team squad.

We will probably lose a few given the contract situation and could lose
one or two of our established players (Tarkowski and/or Pope) if some of the bigger boys
come knocking with offers too good to turn down.
Would possibly add McNeil to that albeit he hasn't really done much this season
to warrant the 30m tag. Would hope that Hendrick stays but both Vydra and Gibson
could leave and would need replacing.

So hopefully no more than 3 or 4 out and 2 or 3 in.
Relatively modest but quite a lot for us.

[Tricky Trevor]

Gibson has been a good signing if only for keeping Ben Mee on his toes.
Mee still throws in the occasional shocker but overall the threat has been to our benefit.
He has to get back to playing come Summer though. Mees backup then could be crucial as it isn’t Jimmy Dunne.

[AlargeClaret]

I’d be amazed If anyone offers massive money for McNeil in summer ,after another season maybe . While he’s a talent he’s very much a work in progress, and his overall game inc his right foot needs a lot of work imo, add to that a middling season . I’d like a cracking season out of him then a big money move

[FactualFrank]

I’d be amazed If anyone offers massive money for McNeil in summer ,after another season maybe . While he’s a talent he’s very much a work in progress, and his overall game inc his right foot needs a lot of work imo, add to that a middling season . I’d like a cracking season out of him then a big money move

I guess it depends on whether he gets called up to the England side for the Euros. As things stand, I don't think he will, but you never know.

[Granny WeatherWax]

That’s why pushing the boat out early on this month would have been a sensible gamble from us for Bowen.

He’s got £80k a week and a relegation release clause at West Ham.

Maybe we did want him but the first phone call to his agent would have put a stop to that.

[ClaretMov]

Obviously we need squad players, I haven't disputed that, but is our bench that good?

We paid 25m+ for Vydra and Gibson and neither of them have challenged for their positions. They've had chances in cup games etc and not delivered.

We need players to come in to improve the starting 11. Something thats going to be extremely difficult if we need 5 or 6 players minnimum to make up the basic squad.

Can you see Burnley spending 30-40m on 2 out of the 5 or 6?

Thats why next season could be the most challenging we've faced.

Yes I could see us spending 30-40 million on replacements given we could sell some of the players and save wages from this list of Vydra, Gibson, Lennon, lowton Hendrick Bardsley McNeil, Hart and Brady. From that list I would of thought we would bring in at least 40-50 million in fees and save about 10 million in wages.

We could ship out 6 or 7 players bring in 4 or 5 at around 10 million each, or part exchange player plus cash that equals no net spend at all and still be up on the wage bill

[Jakubs Tash]

Burnley will definitely take the option up on Brady because it makes absolutely zero sense to let him go for free when he cost us £13m.

Hopefully though, they are looking to move him on and recouping some of the fee.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Burnley will definitely take the option up on Brady because it makes absolutely zero sense to let him go for free when he cost us £13m.

Hopefully though, they are looking to move him on and recouping some of the fee.

But chasing what he could have been at probably 6m over a three year deal makes little sense either. Better cutting our losses on him. Unless he would take a big reduction which is unlikely too.

[FactualFrank]

Yeah, I don't think what we paid for him comes into it now. That's been and gone. It's more about how much it would cost in the summer to replace him, as a backup player to McNeil.

[Jakubs Tash]

But chasing what he could have been at probably 6m over a three year deal makes little sense either. Better cutting our losses on him. Unless he would take a big reduction which is unlikely too.

If they are looking to move him on this summer then it won't really matter too much whether he's on reduced terms or not. What it will mean is that we get a fee for him. He still has enough of a reputation to warrant decent Championship interest, I would have thought.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Yes I could see us spending 30-40 million on replacements given we could sell some of the players and save wages from this list of Vydra, Gibson, Lennon, lowton Hendrick Bardsley McNeil, Hart and Brady. From that list I would of thought we would bring in at least 40-50 million in fees and save about 10 million in wages.

We could ship out 6 or 7 players bring in 4 or 5 at around 10 million each, or part exchange player plus cash that equals no net spend at all and still be up on the wage bill

How is that going to work?

Lennon, Hendrick, Beardsley, Brady and Hart are out of contract.

40-50m for Vydra, McNeil and Gibson? Can't see it.

Vydra and Gibson won't command half what we paid at this stage.

More like 30m tops for those 3.

Its also highly unlikely we will find 4 or 5 players for 10 m each that are good enough, Vydra and Gibson for example haven't even challenged...

[cricketfieldclarets]

If they are looking to move him on this summer then it won't really matter too much whether he's on reduced terms or not. What it will mean is that we get a fee for him. He still has enough of a reputation to warrant decent Championship interest, I would have thought.

Is he not out of contract?

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Is he not out of contract?

We have a one year option, could take it and then try and flog him for a fee.

[cricketfieldclarets]

We have a one year option, could take it and then try and flog him for a fee.

Can’t see that. We are then stuck with him on his current salary which a club would have to match and pay a fee.

[ClaretMov]

How is that going to work?

Lennon, Hendrick, Beardsley, Brady and Hart are out of contract.

40-50m for Vydra, McNeil and Gibson? Can't see it.

Vydra and Gibson won't command half what we paid at this stage.

More like 30m tops for those 3.

Its also highly unlikely we will find 4 or 5 players for 10 m each that are good enough, Vydra and Gibson for example haven't even challenged...

Nothing to do with challenging, Dyche won't change the starting eleven, over the past two season's Mee, Tarks Westwood and cork to name a few should of been rested but not a chance Dyche will change.


Brady contracted until 2022

Brady 5 million max
Vydra 8 million max
Gibson 10 million max
McNeil 25/30 million at least or we don't sell

So At least 40-50 million, if not we dont sell them we would be better leaving them as back up squad players because it would be to expensive to replace.

[FactualFrank]

Brady contracted until 2022

Tony needs to correct the squad page then, as it's showing him as 2020, with the option of a year extension.

[ClaretMov]

Tony needs to correct the squad page then, as it's showing him as 2020, with the option of a year extension.

I checked again on one site it says 2022 and on other two it says 2020 but we can extend to 2021, so we can get a fee for him

When you look at Westwood Brady Hart Hendrick Defour thats around 35/40 million that can/have walked for free just to name a few

[IanMcL]

Pivotal sounds like the name of the best midfielder we can get!

[ClaretTony]

He’s got £80k a week and a relegation release clause at West Ham.

Maybe we did want him but the first phone call to his agent would have put a stop to that.

West Ham must have been desperate to do the deal they have with him and yet some still think we should have gone for him.

[bfcjg]

I think we are better off without his sort TBH.

[superdimitri]

Do not see the point of paying money for a third keeper if Legzdins wants to stay on

Perhaps because you can get unlucky with injuries like we did when Lindegaard played for us.

Or with Villa who were lucky they lost two keepers with a transfer window open.

Or Newcastle a few years ago when they were playing their 4th choice.

[ClaretTony]

Brady contracted until 2022

When did that happen?

[ClaretTony]

Perhaps because you can get unlucky with injuries like we did when Lindegaard played for us.

Or with Villa who were lucky they lost two keepers with a transfer window open.

Or Newcastle a few years ago when they were playing their 4th choice.

Totally agree with you on the goalkeepers. We are not overloaded. I’d expect Legzdins to go this summer though.