Streatham Attacker
Streatham Attacker
Recently released from prison ... once again. Are the muppets on parole boards answerable to anyone other than other muppets ?
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Wonder who the government will blame second time around.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Answerable to Lucy Frazer Conservative MP I think so as you say Blackrod "other muppets"
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Sentenced in Dec 2018 to 3+ years in prison for terrorist offences, released early!
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Give him longer, refuse parole and your human rights activists and lefties would be screaming discrimination, racism, Islamophobia amongst many other things. Rather a bullet between the eyes of a terrorist than a machete in an innocent civilian every time.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
He's where he deserves to be now!!
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Probably a right wing extremist, or mentally ill.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Evidence???Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pmGive him longer, refuse parole and your human rights activists and lefties would be screaming discrimination, racism, Islamophobia amongst many other things. Rather a bullet between the eyes of a terrorist than a machete in an innocent civilian every time.
You get very upset when accusations such as racist get banded around and here you are showing your hypocrisy.
Why don't you try blaming the govt who has run the country for the last decade and whose job it is to manage these issues
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Well they clearly need to get to Specsavers!!!
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Re: Streatham Attacker
He's looking into it on Monday !!Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:15 pmEvidence???
Why don't you try blaming the govt who has run the country for the last decade and whose job it is to manage these issues
Re: Streatham Attacker
Convicted terrorists should automatically receive the death penalty. 100% solution to these **** bags!
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Re: Streatham Attacker
If it is possible to have principles the IRA did in so far as the armed forces and police plus anyone in Government were targets. Civilians although killed were not the intended targets and warnings were given to try and avoid casualties for most of the bombs they planted.
Our present problem with Jihadists is that anyone is a target even those of their faith and so these are more pernicious than most of the previous terrorists we have seen.
It is very hard to turn religious zealots compared with criminals and most of these guys are unlikely to be mentally ill.
Itcannot be safe to let any of them out. Had this guy served his full 3 years he would have been out on the streets just the same
Our present Laws are not geared for these scumbags and banging them away forever will merely result in Human right lobby trying to get them out onto the streets.
Our present problem with Jihadists is that anyone is a target even those of their faith and so these are more pernicious than most of the previous terrorists we have seen.
It is very hard to turn religious zealots compared with criminals and most of these guys are unlikely to be mentally ill.
Itcannot be safe to let any of them out. Had this guy served his full 3 years he would have been out on the streets just the same
Our present Laws are not geared for these scumbags and banging them away forever will merely result in Human right lobby trying to get them out onto the streets.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
I'm against capital punishment but I think it's wrong to make an equivalence between all terrorists in the belief that their motivations and responses are the same.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
I'm pretty sure that if they were kept in prison because they were still considered s threat, not a single person would be trying to get them released.mdd2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:38 amIf it is possible to have principles the IRA did in so far as the armed forces and police plus anyone in Government were targets. Civilians although killed were not the intended targets and warnings were given to try and avoid casualties for most of the bombs they planted.
Our present problem with Jihadists is that anyone is a target even those of their faith and so these are more pernicious than most of the previous terrorists we have seen.
It is very hard to turn religious zealots compared with criminals and most of these guys are unlikely to be mentally ill.
Itcannot be safe to let any of them out. Had this guy served his full 3 years he would have been out on the streets just the same
Our present Laws are not geared for these scumbags and banging them away forever will merely result in Human right lobby trying to get them out onto the streets.
Re: Streatham Attacker
Their lawyers would and the point is/was "how do you know they are no longer a threat?"
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Removal of funds to the probation service, look no further.
This user liked this post: Suratclaret
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Re: Streatham Attacker
The first of the two recent cases had not only fooled prison authorities and the like before release but actively engaged with a rehabilitation charity (whose volunteers he then killed) over a number of months. That suggests he was engaged in some pretty deep deceits that may well have also defeated probation.dougcollins wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:44 amRemoval of funds to the probation service, look no further.
So, I think you'd need to look a bit further than funding of the probation service unless it was a political point you were scoring.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
I don't know the facts of this particular case, other than what has been reported in the media but I do know that one of the best predictors of future risk is previous behaviour. One of the biggest problems facing the Probation Service particularly since Failing Grayling decided to privatize large parts of it, is that too many cases deemed to be high risk are being supervised by inexperienced staff. Some of the reports by HM Inspectorate of Probation would, if I had any, make my hair curl.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
The latest offender had only been out a few weeks and was being tailed by armed police. There has to be a very good chance that we were past the point where a parole officer, of whatever standing, was making a difference. The cause here is that we are failing to lock people up for appropriate lengths of time (an issue that does not just apply to terror offences) not the processes which follow release.Suratclaret wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:35 amI don't know the facts of this particular case, other than what has been reported in the media but I do know that one of the best predictors of future risk is previous behaviour. One of the biggest problems facing the Probation Service particularly since Failing Grayling decided to privatize large parts of it, is that too many cases deemed to be high risk are being supervised by inexperienced staff. Some of the reports by HM Inspectorate of Probation would, if I had any, make my hair curl.
Which is not to contradict your point as I haven't got enough understanding of it.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Their lawyers would if they were kept in prison illegally. In this case the report says there was no legal mechanism to keep him in prison. The problem therefore is with the law, not with people defending human rights.
(Obviously the first problem lies with the criminals themselves and prevention)
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Exactly, as soon as he started his attempted killing spree they shot him to death which seems like the most favourable outcome for everybody on here.thatdberight wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:49 amThe latest offender had only been out a few weeks and was being tailed by armed police.
Being left-wing politically doesn't mean not preventing terrorist attacks.
That's a very strange argument, was he let out early because human rights activists and lefties were screaming discrimination, racism, Islamophobia amongst many other things?Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pmGive him longer, refuse parole and your human rights activists and lefties would be screaming discrimination, racism, Islamophobia amongst many other things. Rather a bullet between the eyes of a terrorist than a machete in an innocent civilian every time.
The answer is no, he was let out by the administration that first arrested him and put him in prison, the current administration, the government.
In other words not a single screaming leftie has been involved in the process at all.
Re: Streatham Attacker
I wouldn't object to a good old fashioned Rushkie style Gulag for terrorists and their sympathisers... pick an island off the coast of the UK and dump them all there and get them to make "holes for roads" so we can have more potholes to moan about instead
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Re: Streatham Attacker
There's a certain direct, final and favourable outcome though if armed police follow these people and shoot them dead as soon as they start anything and without significantly hurting anyone.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:01 amTheir lawyers would if they were kept in prison illegally. In this case the report says there was no legal mechanism to keep him in prison. The problem therefore is with the law, not with people defending human rights.
(Obviously the first problem lies with the criminals themselves and prevention)
It wasn't like the guy went on a fifteen minute rampage before being killed so somebody certainly wasn't fooled by his parole.
Re: Streatham Attacker
Unless there are issues with Human Rights legislation and I am afraid I do have issues with it or as it is implemented.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:01 amTheir lawyers would if they were kept in prison illegally. In this case the report says there was no legal mechanism to keep him in prison. The problem therefore is with the law, not with people defending human rights.
(Obviously the first problem lies with the criminals themselves and prevention)
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Re: Streatham Attacker
I'm sure there is an easier, cheaper and safer solution than having suspects followed by armed police waiting for them to act.Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:07 amThere's a certain direct, final and favourable outcome though if armed police follow these people and shoot them dead as soon as they start anything and without significantly hurting anyone.
It wasn't like the guy went on a fifteen minute rampage before being killed so somebody certainly wasn't fooled by his parole.
Had he been wearing a real bomb-vest, the armed police following him wouldn't have been much use anyway.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Why do you equate 'lefties' with being soft on crime? I'm a 'lefty' and believe criminals should be properly punished and prison should be a punishment not a 'rehabilitation'. The old Soviet Union was 'lefty' but they were anything but soft on crime. Many South American countries are right wing and a lot of those countries are rife with crime. Even under our own blessed Tory government crime is now at very high levels with a police force that doesn't even investigate crimes like burglary and 'minor' crime.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pmGive him longer, refuse parole and your human rights activists and lefties would be screaming discrimination, racism, Islamophobia amongst many other things. Rather a bullet between the eyes of a terrorist than a machete in an innocent civilian every time.
Whenever I see the old 'lefty' accusation from some people it makes me smile because crime is normally at it's highest in right wing countries.
Still, if that's what you want to believe.
Re: Streatham Attacker
Were we not taken to task by the European Court for giving indeterminate sentences where a person had no prospect of ever being released and that it should only be in exceptional cases where such sentences would be passed?TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:12 amIf people are detained legally then there is no breach to their human rights.
Cannot see this guy not appealing successfully a whole life sentence for the crime he committed has such a term been given.
It is a really difficult problem to sort without Joe Public suffering or reformed Islamists being incarcerated unnecessarily-but it seems it will have to be one or the other and why should it be Joe Public?
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Was that to do with making up these rulings off the cuff, so to speak? If we make our laws and sentencing rules, then as long as these are being followed there is no right to appeal. i.e. if we pass a law that the sentence for committing a terrorist offence is life, then it's black and white.mdd2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:36 amWere we not taken to task by the European Court for giving indeterminate sentences where a person had no prospect of ever being released and that it should only be in exceptional cases where such sentences would be passed?
Cannot see this guy not appealing successfully a whole life sentence for the crime he committed has such a term been given.
It is a really difficult problem to sort without Joe Public suffering or reformed Islamists being incarcerated unnecessarily-but it seems it will have to be one or the other and why should it be Joe Public?
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Mdd2, you left ‘Protestants’ off your short list of IRA targets. So the bombs planted in pubs (Birmingham) and shopping centres (Warrington, and the others) don’t seem to fit your profile targets.
Re: Streatham Attacker
You may have a point there as I think it was at the discretion of the Home Secretary as to when/if these prisoners were released. So even if the most Draconian laws are passed, they cannot be looked at and challenged by Human Rights Lawyers? I doubt it. I think if this lad had been given a Full life term it would have been appealed and upheld. I think the last guy had his sentence altered on appeal.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:57 amWas that to do with making up these rulings off the cuff, so to speak? If we make our laws and sentencing rules, then as long as these are being followed there is no right to appeal. i.e. if we pass a law that the sentence for committing a terrorist offence is life, then it's black and white.
But I think the first bit re the Home Sec was how we were wrapped over the knuckles.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Both Birmingham and Warrington were not intended to cause death. Obviously if you go planting bombs that's always a significant possibility and it takes a twisted mindset to think the chance of error is worth it but that was not the intention. The intention was property damage, disruption, causing alarm and influencing public opinion. The Birmingham pubs and the street in Warrington weren't 'Protestant' by the way (whatever that would mean).Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:06 amMdd2, you left ‘Protestants’ off your short list of IRA targets. So the bombs planted in pubs (Birmingham) and shopping centres (Warrington, and the others) don’t seem to fit your profile targets.
The IRA's targets did not, in principle, include 'Protestants' although there were something like 100 IRA killings that appear broadly to be nothing other than sectarian. Again, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of who started what and the pointlessness and stupidity of the whole thing but many of those were tit for tat murders with Loyalist paramilitaries. Which happens once you engage in the activities they were involved in.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Human Rights Law (as I understand it) cannot override primary legislation.mdd2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:06 amYou may have a point there as I think it was at the discretion of the Home Secretary as to when/if these prisoners were released. So even if the most Draconian laws are passed, they cannot be looked at and challenged by Human Rights Lawyers? I doubt it. I think if this lad had been given a Full life term it would have been appealed and upheld. I think the last guy had his sentence altered on appeal.
But I think the first bit re the Home Sec was how we were wrapped over the knuckles.
Re: Streatham Attacker
I don't think it can but it makes you alter Laws at times, hence the Home Secs loss of powers to keep people locked up indefinitely, if that is now the case.thatdberight wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:47 amHuman Rights Law (as I understand it) cannot override primary legislation.
Re: Streatham Attacker
A bomb planted in a waste bin outside a fast food place on a busy Saturday afternoon. A bomb planted in a pub full of people. Not intended to cause death?! Really?thatdberight wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:46 amBoth Birmingham and Warrington were not intended to cause death. Obviously if you go planting bombs that's always a significant possibility and it takes a twisted mindset to think the chance of error is worth it but that was not the intention. The intention was property damage, disruption, causing alarm and influencing public opinion. The Birmingham pubs and the street in Warrington weren't 'Protestant' by the way (whatever that would mean).
The IRA's targets did not, in principle, include 'Protestants' although there were something like 100 IRA killings that appear broadly to be nothing other than sectarian. Again, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of who started what and the pointlessness and stupidity of the whole thing but many of those were tit for tat murders with Loyalist paramilitaries. Which happens once you engage in the activities they were involved in.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Yes. Warnings were given in both cases - both botched. As I said, if you go around planting bombs in public places, regardless of intent, you're likely to kill someone. But that doesn't change the facts.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
I think this as already been tried out by the Americans...... Guantanamo Bay.
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Boris personally approved and sold off Streatham Police Station, which is yards from the scene of the attack, in 2014 when he was the mayor , due to police cuts made by the then Con / Lib Dem government .
Maybe he can but it back to house some of his promised 20,000 new officers .
Maybe he can but it back to house some of his promised 20,000 new officers .
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Re: Streatham Attacker
And?redcloud203 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:35 pmBoris personally approved and sold off Streatham Police Station, which is yards from the scene of the attack, in 2014 when he was the mayor , due to police cuts made by the then Con / Lib Dem government .
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Re: Streatham Attacker
Just reading the quotes from his mother. Not sure if it’s been picked out from longer quotes but she’s claiming he was radicalised in prison.
I’m assuming he was only in there for stealing a loaf of bread to help the poor?
I’m assuming he was only in there for stealing a loaf of bread to help the poor?
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Re: Streatham Attacker
He was but it was mistakenly entered in the system as "ownership and distribution of terrorist propaganda and instructional manuals".Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:34 pmJust reading the quotes from his mother. Not sure if it’s been picked out from longer quotes but she’s claiming he was radicalised in prison.
I’m assuming he was only in there for stealing a loaf of bread to help the poor?
With a quote like that from his family, perhaps we can guess that the problem arose within his home environment.
Re: Streatham Attacker
What facts? In both cases? Really? I know who I would rather believe.thatdberight wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:03 pmYes. Warnings were given in both cases - both botched. As I said, if you go around planting bombs in public places, regardless of intent, you're likely to kill someone. But that doesn't change the facts.
"Shortly before midday on 20 March 1993, The Samaritans in Liverpool received a bomb warning by telephone. According to police, the caller said only that a bomb had been planted outside a Boots shop. Merseyside Police sent officers to branches of Boots in Liverpool and warned the Cheshire Constabulary, who patrolled nearby Warrington. About 30 minutes later, at about 12:25, two bombs exploded on Bridge Street in Warrington, about 100 yards (90 m) apart. The blasts happened within a minute of each other. One exploded outside Boots and McDonald's and one outside the Argos catalogue store. The area was crowded with shoppers. Witnesses said that shoppers fled from the first explosion into the path of the second. It was later found that the bombs had been placed inside cast-iron litter bins, causing large amounts of shrapnel."
The Provisional IRA issued a statement the day after the bombing, acknowledging its involvement but saying:
Responsibility for the tragic and deeply regrettable death and injuries caused in Warrington yesterday lies squarely at the door of those in the British authorities who deliberately failed to act on precise and adequate warnings.
"A day later, an IRA spokesman said that "two precise warnings" had been given "in adequate time", one to the Samaritans and one to Merseyside Police.[7] He added: "You don't provide warnings if it is your intention to kill". Cheshire's assistant chief constable denied there had been a second warning and said:
"Yes, a warning was given half-an-hour before, but no mention was made of Warrington. If the IRA think they can pass on their responsibility for this terrible act by issuing such a nonsensical statement, they have sadly underestimated the understanding of the British public."
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Re: Streatham Attacker
What are you talking about?bpgburn wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:14 pmWhat facts? In both cases? Really? I know who I would rather believe.
"Shortly before midday on 20 March 1993, The Samaritans in Liverpool received a bomb warning by telephone. According to police, the caller said only that a bomb had been planted outside a Boots shop. Merseyside Police sent officers to branches of Boots in Liverpool and warned the Cheshire Constabulary, who patrolled nearby Warrington. About 30 minutes later, at about 12:25, two bombs exploded on Bridge Street in Warrington, about 100 yards (90 m) apart. The blasts happened within a minute of each other. One exploded outside Boots and McDonald's and one outside the Argos catalogue store. The area was crowded with shoppers. Witnesses said that shoppers fled from the first explosion into the path of the second. It was later found that the bombs had been placed inside cast-iron litter bins, causing large amounts of shrapnel."
The Provisional IRA issued a statement the day after the bombing, acknowledging its involvement but saying:
Responsibility for the tragic and deeply regrettable death and injuries caused in Warrington yesterday lies squarely at the door of those in the British authorities who deliberately failed to act on precise and adequate warnings.
"A day later, an IRA spokesman said that "two precise warnings" had been given "in adequate time", one to the Samaritans and one to Merseyside Police.[7] He added: "You don't provide warnings if it is your intention to kill". Cheshire's assistant chief constable denied there had been a second warning and said:
"Yes, a warning was given half-an-hour before, but no mention was made of Warrington. If the IRA think they can pass on their responsibility for this terrible act by issuing such a nonsensical statement, they have sadly underestimated the understanding of the British public."
Who would you prefer to believe?
What do you believe?
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Re: Streatham Attacker
The extremists that perpertrate death and destruction in the name of Islam are a completely different proposition to the old days of Irish terrorism.
The methods used are just about impossible to predict and trying to stop someone who has accepted that death is the ultimate sacrifice must be a nightmare. Some of these extremists don't care if their own wife/husband and children are sacrificed.
There is an excellent documentary about the 'Liquid Bomb Plot' which highlights just how much work goes into a surveillance operation.
Government and the Law makers need to get this early release under review sorted once and for all and not continually drag their heels.
A burglar, drug seller/dealer or car thief are always likely to re-offend and they ruin innocent peoples lives.
Terrorism takes peoples life.
No parole for terrorists says I and tougher sentencing!!
The methods used are just about impossible to predict and trying to stop someone who has accepted that death is the ultimate sacrifice must be a nightmare. Some of these extremists don't care if their own wife/husband and children are sacrificed.
There is an excellent documentary about the 'Liquid Bomb Plot' which highlights just how much work goes into a surveillance operation.
Government and the Law makers need to get this early release under review sorted once and for all and not continually drag their heels.
A burglar, drug seller/dealer or car thief are always likely to re-offend and they ruin innocent peoples lives.
Terrorism takes peoples life.
No parole for terrorists says I and tougher sentencing!!
Re: Streatham Attacker
You said both Birmingham and Warrington were not intended to cause death.thatdberight wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:20 pmWhat are you talking about?
Who would you prefer to believe?
What do you believe?
You said warnings were given in both cases and my comment didn’t change the facts.
There was no warning for the Warrington bombing (depending on who you would prefer to believe, the IRA or the Merseyside Police and Samaritans). Two bombs were planted in cast iron waste bins outside two shops on a packed busy high street of a Saturday. They went off within a minute of each other and you are saying that they weren’t intended to take life just to damage property? Why didn’t they do it on a Sunday evening when the shops were closed and no one about?
As for the Birmingham bombing, the IRA said that they didn’t intend to kill it was just unfortunate that there was a delay in them issuing a warning?!! Why didn’t they bomb the pub on a Sunday evening when it was closed and everyone was in bed if it wasn’t to take life?
Hope that’s a bit clearer?