And mine was that I still see nothing in what you say that shows there's something to which the public are entitled to hold him. It's not a general principle; to make the condemnation valid they have to break some implicit committment.
Problems for the SNP ...
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Or grooming.SalouClaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:16 amAs much as this makes my skin crawl, he hasn't actually done anything wrong legally. Although 270 messages is probably considered harassment.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Harassment is unwanted behaviour. From what I can tell the lad engaged in conversation. If he'd told him to eff off and he continued, then yes, I would call it harassment.SalouClaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:16 amAs much as this makes my skin crawl, he hasn't actually done anything wrong legally. Although 270 messages is probably considered harassment.
The reporting, using words like "bombarding" doesn't really help.
All very odd. Presumably Mackay became infatuated with the lad, but not really sure why the lad continued the conversation. Maybe he enjoyed the attention or the fact that he had a figure of authority persuing him. Maybe he saw an opportunity to earn from it so kept it up.
Last edited by TheFamilyCat on Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
270 messages over 6 months is less than 2 messages a day... Not really a lot.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:04 pmHarassment is unwanted behaviour. From what I can tell the lad engaged in conversation. If he'd told him to eff off and he continued, then yes, I would call it harassment.
The reporting, using words like "bombarding" doesn't really help.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
This really is tomorrow night’s chip paper.
Salacious, but looked at through the prism of a political week, ephemeral flim-flam.
Salacious, but looked at through the prism of a political week, ephemeral flim-flam.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
SNP party full of sex predators and Republican anti English bigots.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
They say "bombarded" with 270 messages in 6 months.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:04 pmHarassment is unwanted behaviour. From what I can tell the lad engaged in conversation. If he'd told him to eff off and he continued, then yes, I would call it harassment.
The reporting, using words like "bombarding" doesn't really help.
From the pings I hear in the other room, I'd say 270 messages is about 37 minutes' worth of messages on most teenagers' WhatsApp group...
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Exactly but wording like that gets the bfcboyos of this world all het up.thatdberight wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:09 pmThey say "bombarded" with 270 messages in 6 months.
From the pings I hear in the other room, I'd say 270 messages is about 37 minutes' worth of messages on most teenagers' WhatsApp group...
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Some strange views on here . He is a school boy ffs. The woke are better at fishing than I thought.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
One day you're 15, the next day you're 16. Yesterday you are a paedophile, today you're not.
I get your point, but I think we are all a little 'busy' trying to find somewhere to put this.
It's just bad. He OBVIOUSLY likes young boys in a sexual way. Seems the question about his age wasn't the first text... so all he knew at THAT stage was that he was a young boy... but because he WAS 16, everything's all legal and above board.
I realise there has to be a line drawn SOMEWHERE, but it just seems so wrong in instances like this.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I'd be careful. "Young boys" is an entirely different category of people than the young man under discussion in this case and there is no suggestion in the public arena linking Mackay with any such behaviour.
I'm not getting into a line by line analysis of what he knew at various stages because I couldn't possibly know, other than that nothing so far in the public arena suggests he thought he was speaking to a child (in legal terms) at any stage.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I may be wrong but I thought the age of consent was 18. When one of the couple is in a position of trust over the person under 18. Assume this is for teachers, scout leaders etc not sure about politicians though.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Anyone can be groomed, regardless of age, but whether that strays into illegality is another matter.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I don't believe any such specific age of consent exists. You'd be quite brave these days to start a relationship where you could at all be deemed to be in a position of authority or responsibility for the other person, regardless of age.Cardclaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:34 pmI may be wrong but I thought the age of consent was 18. When one of the couple is in a position of trust over the person under 18. Assume this is for teachers, scout leaders etc not sure about politicians though.
Certainly if a teacher started a relationship with a sixth former they'd get time for it. Or you might get to be "première dame" if you're lucky even if they were only 16 at the time.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Almost all of the dictionaries mention children in the definition (although not Collins, which I like). Like many relatively new uses (1985), its definition may not have absolutely settled.fidelcastro wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:38 pmAnyone can be groomed, regardless of age, but whether that strays into illegality is another matter.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Young boys, older boys... How about moral terms? I was once a 16 year old schoolboy. A schoolboy non the less. There are 16 year old schoolboys out there now. Would that be ok? 16 after all.... just a rhetorical question, I know you won’t think that’s ok.thatdberight wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:28 pmI'd be careful. "Young boys" is an entirely different category of people than the young man under discussion in this case and there is no suggestion in the public arena linking Mackay with any such behaviour.
I'm not getting into a line by line analysis of what he knew at various stages because I couldn't possibly know, other than that nothing so far in the public arena suggests he thought he was speaking to a child (in legal terms) at any stage.
This is a terrible situation.... but it’s one of his own making, but admitting he’s been stupid or foolish is one thing... he could quite easily have been answering some very serious charges. That shouldn’t come down to luck....I wonder what his reaction would’ve been if the answer to the age question was 15?
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Messages started on 2nd August. He asked him his age on 18th September. In between he told the lad he was gay, asked for his mobile number (twice) and offered to take him to a rugby match.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Just googled it for you Thatdberight. The age of consent is 18, where there is a position of trust scenario under the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
The “ 18 rule” applies to teachers/social workers /medical /police/etc etc pretty damn sure MP’s don’t fall into that category . He’ll lose his job (unlucky but has to be) He’s lost his career over stupidity rather than buggery.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
What is this Google of which you speak? Sounds useful.Cardclaret wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:50 pmJust googled it for you Thatdberight. The age of consent is 18, where there is a position of trust scenario under the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
Thanks for the detail. I'd be even more circumspect. Even among older adults in some work environments it's either very heavily regulated or banned.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
SNP = Sexual nuisance party.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I totally agree it reeks which is why all the opposition parties in Holyrood are calling for him to resign his seat,and it's probable he'll be kicked out of the SNP,this happened over a long period and he clearly knew it was wrong,hence why he didn't want the conservations to come to light,whether he's broken any laws is up to the police to decide,but morally surely no-one can defend his behaviour,and he'll have to take the consequences whatever they might be.Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:54 pmJust this which I presumed was legitimate. I will stand by my beliefs even if it turns out to be untrue. If he is 15 / 16 he is a 42 year old. It reeks.
It will all come out and whatever happens would you want him texting your 16yr old niece,nephew,son or daughter.
No i wouldn't want any middle-aged man/woman texting my young relatives,especially if they were a stranger,which i presume Mr Mackay was initially.
There is no suggestion that Derek Mackay has engaged in any physical sexual contact with the unnamed boy,but his messages are creepy at best,and obsence at worst.
Just as an aside i note there is no SNP representation on QT tonight,purely a coincidence i'm sure.
More allegations in the Scottish press https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/poli ... -21447119
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I take your point, an example being I suppose someone who is married having an affair (or even several). It is not illegal but nevertheless wrong, but surely that is the business of those affected and not one for the general public to get concerned about? I suppose this is what I mean about people getting a bit precious about things that, in the end are no concern of theirs. Someone above posted about 'people defending his actions', I think the point missed is that people aren't 'defending' him (there is as yet nothing to defend legally) but they are simply pointing out that in the eyes of the law he has done no wrong and their condemnation is all to do with imposing their moral values on others.
For what it's worth I don't agree with what he has done but it is not for me or anyone else to condemn him until such time (if that time comes) that he is proven to have broken the law.
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Oh the irony!
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
Best we wait to find out just how naughty by letting the law decide.
Nota good look for the SNP... on the back of Salmond... serf serving, abuse of power is political dynamite. The SNP are in danger of imploding as so many do, just when they seem to be on a roll. It happened time after time with Irish home rule organisations in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries..... clever Westminster undermining or lack of integrity of those in control?
Best we wait to find out just how naughty by letting the law decide.
Nota good look for the SNP... on the back of Salmond... serf serving, abuse of power is political dynamite. The SNP are in danger of imploding as so many do, just when they seem to be on a roll. It happened time after time with Irish home rule organisations in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries..... clever Westminster undermining or lack of integrity of those in control?
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Fact is he's aleading Polititico - well in Scotland anyway and really shouldn't be chatting up young men.
Does anyone know what the content of these messages was?
Does anyone know what the content of these messages was?
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
There's a full transcript in the Scottish Sun.
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Not sure why I got banned tbh.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I wondered why this guy hadn't been in the press recently, this is he's still entitled to claim expenses despite not attending Holyrood since February, this is taking liberties with the Scottish taxpayers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... -54365258
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Looks like they've got a lot bigger problems than expense claims after Margaret Ferrier actions this week. Surely she should resign but disgraced MPs resigning doesnt seem to be the done thing these days
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
The press are gunning for her after she went after Cummings in a big way but has done something far far worse.
I'm far from into all these rules in place but the first one that should be put in place is anyone having a test because they have symptoms should have to isolate until test results are known.
I'm far from into all these rules in place but the first one that should be put in place is anyone having a test because they have symptoms should have to isolate until test results are known.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
The sad thing is now we'll see lots of people who defended Cummings to the hilt suddenly outraged by this MP. I think Cummings should have resigned or been sacked and I think Ferrier should resign or be sacked but unfortunately many will treat differently because of their tribal allegiances
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
The difference is, that its debatable that Cummings did anything wrong, where as this person has deliberately broke every rule in the book.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:32 pmThe sad thing is now we'll see lots of people who defended Cummings to the hilt suddenly outraged by this MP. I think Cummings should have resigned or been sacked and I think Ferrier should resign or be sacked but unfortunately many will treat differently because of their tribal allegiances
Anyway, I'm not sure most people are outraged.
Probably more amused than anything
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
"its debatable that Cummings did anything wrong"
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Cummings went back in to work after being with his wife suffering from Covid symptoms. He then drove the length of the country with an infected family. You can defend all the crappy excuses all you want but you are just proving my point how people will treat the two differently.
Both put MPs at risk, both travelled when they should have stayed put and both shouldnt have kept their job. Its pretty simple if you dont let your political bias cloud your judgement
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
And you will be wanting Corbyn to resign as well?Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:59 pmCummings went back in to work after being with his wife suffering from Covid symptoms. He then drove the length of the country with an infected family. You can defend all the crappy excuses all you want but you are just proving my point how people will treat the two differently.
Both put MPs at risk, both travelled when they should have stayed put and both shouldnt have kept their job. Its pretty simple if you dont let your political bias cloud your judgement
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Probably not as Id say his actions probably fall in to a less serious breach than knowingly travelling with Covid symptoms. Id say Cotbyns actions more sit alongside those of Jenrick, Kinnock, Stanley Johnson, Farage and quite a few other people in public office.
Thats not to defend him as its just another example of the hypocrisy of these MPs and prominent figures who preach at us but again if you try to look at it objectively there is a difference between meeting up with more than 6 healthy people and going to work and travelling the country with the virus
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
I don’t. But I’d love to know how many Labour politicians that called for Cummings to be sacked will be doing the same now that Corbyn has been photographed breaking the rules (I mean, how daft).
Think this SNP lady is the worst of the lot. She wrote in the Daily Record calling for Cummings to resign so presumably she will now be doing the same?
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
TBF to the SNP they've removed the whip ASAP, and that's all they can do, and both them and the Labour party are calling on her to resign, sadly I doubt she will, nobody whatever their political views has the honour to fall on their sword anymore, her case isn't helped by her call for Dominic Cummings to quit when his 'mistake' came to light, the one thing the electorate hate more than anything is hypocrisy.NewClaret wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:08 pmI don’t. But I’d love to know how many Labour politicians that called for Cummings to be sacked will be doing the same now that Corbyn has been photographed breaking the rules (I mean, how daft).
Think this SNP lady is the worst of the lot. She wrote in the Daily Record calling for Cummings to resign so presumably she will now be doing the same?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54379026
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
The main and obvious difference between all the other cases mentioned and the Cummings case is that they’ve all realised they’ve done wrong and apologised rather than take the public for idiots by concocting some cock and bull story.
The SNP MP’s case I think is serious enough for her to resign, Corbyn and Johnson Snr should not escape the law and should receive the appropriate fine.
The SNP MP’s case I think is serious enough for her to resign, Corbyn and Johnson Snr should not escape the law and should receive the appropriate fine.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Agree he should’ve apologised, she should resign and Corbyn/Johnson get a fine.martin_p wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:40 pmThe main and obvious difference between all the other cases mentioned and the Cummings case is that they’ve all realised they’ve done wrong and apologised rather than take the public for idiots by concocting some cock and bull story.
The SNP MP’s case I think is serious enough for her to resign, Corbyn and Johnson Snr should not escape the law and should receive the appropriate fine.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Yes, SNP have dealt with it annoyingly welltiger76 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:33 pmTBF to the SNP they've removed the whip ASAP, and that's all they can do, and both them and the Labour party are calling on her to resign, sadly I doubt she will, nobody whatever their political views has the honour to fall on their sword anymore, her case isn't helped by her call for Dominic Cummings to quit when his 'mistake' came to light, the one thing the electorate hate more than anything is hypocrisy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54379026
Given her words about Cummings, and that her actions were far more irresponsible, it will be the highest possible hypocrisy if she doesn’t resign. Credibility in tatters.
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Yes it would, but another take on this it a that the government set the standard for how this should be dealt with so she’s already gone too far by apologising.
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Re: Problems for the SNP ...
Are these people arrogant or just stupid?
Re: Problems for the SNP ...
She ought to be sacked immediately. Really bad exposing people to risk including on public transport with symptoms and then worse still after a positive test. Disgraceful.
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