Covid-19

[thatdberight]

Are We Destroying Society In Order to Save It?

A blog by Prof Craig Pirrong: https://streetwiseprofessor.com/2020/03/

In 1968, journalist Peter Arnett claimed that a U.S. major had told him that a particular village in Vietnam, Ben Tre, had to be extirpated: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it” (from the Vietcong), sayeth the major (according to Arnett). This has entered American discourse as “we had to destroy the village to save it.”

That phrase came to mind when contemplating the havoc wreaked by the CCP Virus. Europe is shutting down, country by country. Parts of the US have shut down. Others are on the verge of shutting down. The economic carnage is immense. Governments talk of spending trillions of dollars in various forms of relief: the loss of output/income will probably be measured in trillions.

Contra Hayek, it is the curious task of an economist to ask whether it’s worth it. That is, economics is predicated on the concept of scarcity, which in turn implies that every choice involves a trade-off. You want more of a good–or in the present instance, less of a bad–you have to give up something.
What price are you willing to pay? How much is saving 1000 lives worth? 10,000?

Orders of magnitude. Let’s say that shutting down the US economy through radical social distancing, quarantines, etc., saves 1000 lives, and costs $1 trillion. That works out to $1 billion per life. Moreover, the lives saved are most likely aged, infirm, sick individuals with short life expectancies and poor life quality.

Is that a price you are willing to pay? There is no right answer: the answer is subjective. Your answer may differ from mine. But when making decisions, it is a question we have to answer.

Increase the death toll by 10, and you are still at $100 million/life. This is far beyond any value of life estimate used in other regulatory and policy decisions.

If the cost of an economic shutdown is $1 trillion, you would have to save on the order of 100,000 lives to approximate the value of a statistical life (around $10 million) the US government uses for other policy making purposes.

I know that most people recoil at such calculations. The idea of valuing lives in dollars violates most people’s moral intuitions.

So let’s focus on lives. A major recession–or depression, which is not inconceivable–costs lives. Suicide rates go up. Substance abuse goes up, which costs lives in the near term (overdoses, fatal vehicle accidents) and the long term (substance abuse shortens lives). Stress-related fatalities (heart attack, stroke) go up. Murder rates go up. Consumption of health care declines, leading to premature deaths.

And then we can start talking about quality of life.

Pretty soon it adds up. We are not just evaluating the trade-off of lives for money. We are evaluating the trade-off of lives for lives.
That is, always remember Bastiat: think of the unseen. There is an unseen public health cost associated with major economic dislocation. That unseen cost has to be weighed against the cost that is right in front of our faces at present, i.e., the death toll from CPCV-19/20.

It is of course difficult to estimate, or even approximate, the various costs. Our radical ignorance about the virus makes it difficult to assess what the death toll would be under various policies. Similarly, we are operating in completely unexplored territory in trying to estimate the economic cost, let alone the health cost, of more or less draconian restrictions on our lives and movement.

But we have to at least confront the trade-off. Acknowledge it. Grapple with it. My strong sense is that the monomaniacal focus on controlling spread of the virus, the costs be damned, is operating according to the logic of destroying society in order to save it. That logic was absurd in 1968. It is absurd in 2020.

The comments accompanying this blog are also worth a read, if you find this interesting.

EDIT: Also posted on "Boris - Discuss" Thread (or whatever it is called.

Interesting. Society already makes these trade-offs. I don't know why this is unspeakable (as it appears to be) in this scenario.

[Gordaleman]

Bump.

Sensible info on Covid 19

https://www.ted.com/talks/alanna_shaikh ... d#t-304857

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_heymann ... d#t-241936

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

We've just had the lockdown extended here in Spain for another 15 days (from Friday) so we'll all have been in for a month when we are out again, if it isn't extended again that is.
Quite looking forward to it myself, started work on my abs today and if the youtube video is to be believed I'll be ending this with a six-pack.

The streets are empty, nobody is getting too bothered about it, we play "I spy" with other families from the balconies and all cheer and clap for the health workers every night at 8 o clock.

Nobody feels like we are being oppressed or moaning about it, it's a pandemic ffs. You can ignore it like too many people did in Italy or you can wait it out calmly and help your country flatten the curve.

Any perceived loss of liberty or freedom is temporary, it isn't the best but we've had to do it before and it's an eradicable virus given time.

[dsr]

Source for the 20%?

Total deaths in the UK:

2015 = 607,172
2016 = 597,206
2017 = 602,782

Total deaths from flu and pneumonia in England:

2015 = 102,507
2016 = 96,031
2017 = 94,011

Allowing for England's population being only 5/6 of the total UK population, these translate to

2015 = 20.3% of deaths per death certificate having flu or pneimonia on them
2016 = 19.3%
2017 = 18.9%

So back of the envelope figures slightly qrong, it's just below 20% of deaths connected with flu or pneumonia, on average.

[tiger76]

The government has not advised people to keep 2m apart from people they share a house with. That would be totally ridiculous.

Ok 2m is probably excessive from that POV,but keeping a sensible distance from the wider public is surely sensible at this time,and avoiding large gatherings should be obvious to everyone,and avoiding non essential travel,i'm sure you'd agree that a trip to Snowdonia or the Scottish Highlands is not an essential trip just now.

The reason for these measures is to ensure the NHS isn't overburdened,and the medics can cope as much as possible.

I'm sure we're all experiencing fatigue talking about this issue,but the sooner the public learn to modify their behaviour,at least in the short to medium term,the sooner the freedoms we all enjoy will be available once more,but our priority has to be protecting the vulnerable groups in our society,as they'll be the ones at the sharp end of this virus.

[Zlatan]

The government has not advised people to keep 2m apart from people they share a house with. That would be totally ridiculous.

Check the recommendations again. That rule does apply in some scenarios

[Rileybobs]

Ok 2m is probably excessive from that POV,but keeping a sensible distance from the wider public is surely sensible at this time,and avoiding large gatherings should be obvious to everyone,and avoiding non essential travel,i'm sure you'd agree that a trip to Snowdonia or the Scottish Highlands is not an essential trip just now.

The reason for these measures is to ensure the NHS isn't overburdened,and the medics can cope as much as possible.

I'm sure we're all experiencing fatigue talking about this issue,but the sooner the public learn to modify their behaviour,at least in the short to medium term,the sooner the freedoms we all enjoy will be available once more,but our priority has to be protecting the vulnerable groups in our society,as they'll be the ones at the sharp end of this virus.

With regards essential travel, todays advice was very much advocating people enjoying the countryside and green spaces provided they can keep a safe distance from others.

My point was in response to your criticism of a couple holding hands whilst walking down the street which is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

[Rileybobs]

Check the recommendations again. That rule does apply in some scenarios

To high risk people and those with symptoms, yes. But I’m assuming that the couple walking the street hand in hand didn’t fall into either of those categories or they shouldn’t be outdoors regardless.

[tiger76]

With regards essential travel, todays advice was very much advocating people enjoying the countryside and green spaces provided they can keep a safe distance from others.

My point was in response to your criticism of a couple holding hands whilst walking down the street which is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

Fair enough in regards to the couple,i apologise if i got the wrong end of the stick.and i'm happy to be corrected in that case.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

are you suggesting taking my liberty away on the account of selfish stupid people who cannot appear to follow clear instructions? Where does it stop? When does it return to normal?

After the global pandemic.

[claretdj]

We've just had the lockdown extended here in Spain for another 15 days (from Friday) so we'll all have been in for a month when we are out again, if it isn't extended again that is.
Quite looking forward to it myself, started work on my abs today and if the youtube video is to be believed I'll be ending this with a six-pack.

The streets are empty, nobody is getting too bothered about it, we play "I spy" with other families from the balconies and all cheer and clap for the health workers every night at 8 o clock.

Nobody feels like we are being oppressed or moaning about it, it's a pandemic ffs. You can ignore it like too many people did in Italy or you can wait it out calmly and help your country flatten the curve.

Any perceived loss of liberty or freedom is temporary, it isn't the best but we've had to do it before and it's an eradicable virus given time.

Stay safe n strong matey, n enjoy the sun!

[thatdberight]

Follow up to the German death percentage conundrum.

BBC interviewing a German Wall Street Journal reporter who says Germany's initial cases came from skiers and festival attenders who were younger, therefore obviously a lower death rate but, sadly, he said they'll "get there". He also believes better testing, more knowledge of who has it so the "multiply by ten" to know how many really have it (he cited WHO) doesn't apply to Germany.

[Wile E Coyote]

its basically like this, many of us know what we should do, but the self centered and numbskulled will do whatever the **** they like best.
The outcome is of little interest to them because they are incapable of rational thoughts.
same with the dead eyed ******** who wreak havoc in supermarkets, but will expect (and probably get) preferential treatment in hospitals.
WE just are not the generation of world wars, instead of unity, we are a nation of dullards. shame on the vermin.

[atlantalad]

I went out today for a walk on my own. it was ok.

Just be honest and say that no matter what he says he can do no right in your eyes because you dislike him.

Exactly.

Think some on this board are purely being provocative in pretending to not understand that you can go out and about whilst still maintaining safe social distancing. If they want a fuller explanation of what this actually entails then they are just plain DUMB and it's time Mother Nature just gives up with us and finishes us off.

[Foreverly Claret]

I keep reading in the press/ hearing in the media about the celebs and sportspeople in the UK who are testing positive for CoronaV...eg Nadine
Dorris , Idris Elba etc etc and those who are also testing negative .

If yours truly gets the symptoms I have to self isolate for 7 days...DON'T go to the doctor or even tell him that I've got the symptoms..then my family self isolates for 14 days...and they don't need to visit or tell the doctor...SO at what point is anybody tested if you are not designated a key worker ? Seems to me that it must be when you are so bloody ill that you're admitted to hospital and / or on the verge of croaking .

WHO keep saying TEST TEST TEST but we seem to be testing when its too late for some people .

I can understand that this is a huge logistical problem but it seems to me that unless you're gravely ill you're not going to be tested...UNLESS OF COURSE YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR IT..which most of us plebs can't .

As ever MONEY TALKS.

[Bfcboyo]

Apparently tests now only on hospital admissions. This explains why we keep hearing misinformation on the full symptoms.
Some have stomach upset.
Some have sore throat.
Some have no fever.

That silhouette of somebody with a fever, chest problems and aches is usually when it has gripped you and got on your lungs. Many of us will get covid 19 and not have these symptoms.

All we can do is follow the advice in the battle ahead to stem the spread.

[thatdberight]

Total deaths in the UK:

2015 = 607,172
2016 = 597,206
2017 = 602,782

Total deaths from flu and pneumonia in England:

2015 = 102,507
2016 = 96,031
2017 = 94,011

Allowing for England's population being only 5/6 of the total UK population, these translate to

2015 = 20.3% of deaths per death certificate having flu or pneimonia on them
2016 = 19.3%
2017 = 18.9%

So back of the envelope figures slightly qrong, it's just below 20% of deaths connected with flu or pneumonia, on average.

I give up. Too many stats floating about, from the 600 on a credible website on the first page of this very thread to Chris Whitty's 8k to the 17k which has been mentioned (and is a 5 year average on ONS figures) to the numbers above which (I know you're not pretending otherwise) hve pneumonia wrapped up in them (which in itself is often joined with the virus...)

[paulatky]

Are We Destroying Society In Order to Save It?

A blog by Prof Craig Pirrong: https://streetwiseprofessor.com/2020/03/

In 1968, journalist Peter Arnett claimed that a U.S. major had told him that a particular village in Vietnam, Ben Tre, had to be extirpated: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it” (from the Vietcong), sayeth the major (according to Arnett). This has entered American discourse as “we had to destroy the village to save it.”

That phrase came to mind when contemplating the havoc wreaked by the CCP Virus. Europe is shutting down, country by country. Parts of the US have shut down. Others are on the verge of shutting down. The economic carnage is immense. Governments talk of spending trillions of dollars in various forms of relief: the loss of output/income will probably be measured in trillions.

Contra Hayek, it is the curious task of an economist to ask whether it’s worth it. That is, economics is predicated on the concept of scarcity, which in turn implies that every choice involves a trade-off. You want more of a good–or in the present instance, less of a bad–you have to give up something.
What price are you willing to pay? How much is saving 1000 lives worth? 10,000?

Orders of magnitude. Let’s say that shutting down the US economy through radical social distancing, quarantines, etc., saves 1000 lives, and costs $1 trillion. That works out to $1 billion per life. Moreover, the lives saved are most likely aged, infirm, sick individuals with short life expectancies and poor life quality.

Is that a price you are willing to pay? There is no right answer: the answer is subjective. Your answer may differ from mine. But when making decisions, it is a question we have to answer.

Increase the death toll by 10, and you are still at $100 million/life. This is far beyond any value of life estimate used in other regulatory and policy decisions.

If the cost of an economic shutdown is $1 trillion, you would have to save on the order of 100,000 lives to approximate the value of a statistical life (around $10 million) the US government uses for other policy making purposes.

I know that most people recoil at such calculations. The idea of valuing lives in dollars violates most people’s moral intuitions.

So let’s focus on lives. A major recession–or depression, which is not inconceivable–costs lives. Suicide rates go up. Substance abuse goes up, which costs lives in the near term (overdoses, fatal vehicle accidents) and the long term (substance abuse shortens lives). Stress-related fatalities (heart attack, stroke) go up. Murder rates go up. Consumption of health care declines, leading to premature deaths.

And then we can start talking about quality of life.

Pretty soon it adds up. We are not just evaluating the trade-off of lives for money. We are evaluating the trade-off of lives for lives.
That is, always remember Bastiat: think of the unseen. There is an unseen public health cost associated with major economic dislocation. That unseen cost has to be weighed against the cost that is right in front of our faces at present, i.e., the death toll from CPCV-19/20.

It is of course difficult to estimate, or even approximate, the various costs. Our radical ignorance about the virus makes it difficult to assess what the death toll would be under various policies. Similarly, we are operating in completely unexplored territory in trying to estimate the economic cost, let alone the health cost, of more or less draconian restrictions on our lives and movement.

But we have to at least confront the trade-off. Acknowledge it. Grapple with it. My strong sense is that the monomaniacal focus on controlling spread of the virus, the costs be damned, is operating according to the logic of destroying society in order to save it. That logic was absurd in 1968. It is absurd in 2020.

The comments accompanying this blog are also worth a read, if you find this interesting.

EDIT: Also posted on "Boris - Discuss" Thread (or whatever it is called.

Isnt that exactly what I said 3 weeks ago !!!

[ClaretAndJew]

Hope you are all ready for lock down.

[Gordaleman]

Bump.

Sensible info on Covid 19

https://www.ted.com/talks/alanna_shaikh ... d#t-304857

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_heymann ... d#t-241936

[Lowbankclaret]

Hope you are all ready for lock down.

Yes!

[titsoutforthelads]

Isnt that exactly what I said 3 weeks ago !!!

I remember your very emotional post in which you would sacrifice yourself to ensure a better future for your family. It brought a tear to my eye.

Stay safe

[mdd2]

A guy in California lost his rag after waiting in a queue for over 12 hr to get tested for Coronavirus. Told the person behind him that he had had enough and asked if they guy would keep his place for him as he was going to shoot Trump.
After a few hours he came back. The person keeping his place for him asked "did you shoot him?" He replied "No. The queue there is even longer than this one here"

[FactualFrank]

If we go into lockdown, will that mean everything such as Amazon to cease trading and delivering?

Taxis and buses to stop?

[NottsClaret]

Hope you are all ready for lock down.

What's the difference between 'lockdown' and now?

[ClaretAndJew]

What's the difference between 'lockdown' and now?

Government enforced restrictions. Only allowed out for a reason.

[lakedistrictclaret]

Government enforced restrictions. Only allowed out for a reason.

Correct, although almost impossible to enforce, I would have thought.

[FactualFrank]

What's the difference between 'lockdown' and now?

Like Italy, I suspect.

[NottsClaret]

Government enforced restrictions. Only allowed out for a reason.

Fair enough. Not that different for everyone who's being responsible already I imagine.

Although they need to crack on with that now, no chance of it working once the weather gets nice.

[ClaretAndJew]

Just in case anyone needs this information:

EE are offering a 30 day "reprieve" on your phone bill if you are unable to pay and during these uncertain times.

Source - Just spoke to them on the phone.

[mdd2]

I have spent a week trying this but been out to the shops and taken the Mrs out for a drive. We have therefore significantly reduced our social interactions and tried the 2 metre rule too. I think the advice has been correct about this in so far as it is now getting to the point where this is a must and even after a week I shudder about the next 12 weeks like this.
asking us to have done this three weeks ago would have been overkill

[FactualFrank]

Fair enough. Not that different for everyone who's being responsible already I imagine.

Not sure if buses and taxis are still running, but I think a lockdown would suspend services for those. And trains, if they haven't already been.

Any shops other than food and pharmacies would be closed - I just contacted my hairdressers and she said she expects she'll have to close this week. So shops in the city centre would close.

[thatdberight]

Not sure if buses and taxis are still running, but I think a lockdown would suspend services for those. And trains, if they haven't already been.

Any shops other than food and pharmacies would be closed - I just contacted my hairdressers and she said she expects she'll have to close this week. So shops in the city centre would close.

People who will be working still need to get to their work. Once you've locked down the non-essential people, you don't have to lock down the essential services like transport.

[cblantfanclub]

Can't go through 80 odd pages to see if this has already been posted. But it should help clear up some peoples obsession with flu which appears to be irrelevant to the current problem

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system.

This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks.

[thatdberight]

... the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off...

Written by a nurse rather than an expert and this key point made seems to me entirely wrong. If anybody understands that better, lob one in.

[AlargeClaret]

Isnt that exactly what I said 3 weeks ago !!!

Isn’t there some kind of mental disorder about the need to be proved right and seek constant back slapping for the same ? While I’m sure you mean well,the amount of self serving “ internet doctor” horsesh1t on this thread Is astounding . It’s not difficult to google a bit of history /trajectory of the virus to predict things . A quick check on Wuhan woujd give you all you need to reasonably accurately predict the euro spread of the virus . Though no malice intended and stay safe

[theboydonegood]

Piers Morgan apparently said we should all imagine a dead body between us to ensure social distancing. I suppose he means well. I am currently walking around social distancing by imagining a dead Piers Morgan on the floor between us - this works quite well

[Grumps]

Isn’t there some kind of mental disorder about the need to be proved right and seek constant back slapping for the same ? While I’m sure you mean well,the amount of self serving “ internet doctor” horsesh1t on this thread Is astounding . It’s not difficult to google a bit of history /trajectory of the virus to predict things . A quick check on Wuhan woujd give you all you need to reasonably accurately predict the euro spread of the virus . Though no malice intended and stay safe

Completely agree, the guy must spend all day on Google, nobody in the world was an expert on this virus 3 months ago, yet somehow paularty seems to have become one, and loves telling everyone. His... I told you so... posts are becoming boring, annoying and basically making him look a bit of a plonker.

[Lowbankclaret]

I have spent a week trying this but been out to the shops and taken the Mrs out for a drive. We have therefore significantly reduced our social interactions and tried the 2 metre rule too. I think the advice has been correct about this in so far as it is now getting to the point where this is a must and even after a week I shudder about the next 12 weeks like this.
asking us to have done this three weeks ago would have been overkill

If we had gone into lock down 3 weeks ago it would have saved lives.

New Zealand. PM has decided now it has 100 cases and no deaths it’s going to learn from other countries and has gone into lockdown before it gets worse.

[Grumps]

If we had gone into lock down 3 weeks ago it would have saved lives.

New Zealand. PM has decided now it has 100 cases and no deaths it’s going to learn from other countries and has gone into lockdown before it gets worse.

Can you imagine the outrage if that was suggested 3 weeks ago? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[tiger76]

Wow! they don't mess about in Taiwan.

One man in Taiwan had a particularly expensive night out after authorities fined him $33,000 (£28,480) for violating his quarantine to go clubbing.

The man was supposed to be self-isolating at home for two weeks after returning from Southeast Asia, reported the Asia Times news site.

But he was caught partying in the capital, Taipei, on Sunday.

Officials called his behaviour “malicious” and charged him with the maximum fine possible.

“Those who are caught going out to places that have big crowds and are not well ventilated will be sent to a centralised epidemic prevention facility and fined NT$1 million,” New Taipei city mayor Hou Yu-ih said.

“I will not be soft-handed,” he added.

Taiwan has been praised for keeping its confirmed cases low, despite its proximity to China. It has reported 195 cases so far and two deaths.

But despite having contained the virus, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong are now facing a second coronavirus wave, fuelled by people entering their borders.

This has prompted Taiwan to ban foreigners from entering and making it mandatory for its nationals returning to the country to self-quarantine for 14 days.

[Lowbankclaret]

Isn’t there some kind of mental disorder about the need to be proved right and seek constant back slapping for the same ? While I’m sure you mean well,the amount of self serving “ internet doctor” horsesh1t on this thread Is astounding . It’s not difficult to google a bit of history /trajectory of the virus to predict things . A quick check on Wuhan woujd give you all you need to reasonably accurately predict the euro spread of the virus . Though no malice intended and stay safe

Yes but a couple of posters in particular were being told they were over reacting , it has proved worse than what was being said back then.

[Lowbankclaret]

Can you imagine the outrage if that was suggested 3 weeks ago? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Yes, many people are outraged now it’s being put out there.

I am guessing the same couple of posters would have welcomed it then and the majority wouldn’t.

[Jakubclaret]

Can you imagine the outrage if that was suggested 3 weeks ago? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Wasn't rocket science to work out the trajectory was going only 1 way, it didn't take Einstein to work out what the picture would look like, for Christ's sake even us on here for weeks have been saying what needed to be done & it's not even our job to do anything about it.

[thatdberight]

Yes but a couple of posters in particular were being told they were over reacting , it has proved worse than what was being said back then.

No it hasn't. You just mean you've doesn't up even worse scenarios since.

[thatdberight]

... it's not even our job to do anything about it.

There's probably a reason for that

[Lowbankclaret]

Can you imagine the outrage if that was suggested 3 weeks ago? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Also it’s not hindsight, page 1 of this thread a couple of us said this was going to be serious.
I thought we would end up going into lockdown but didn’t think people would accept it. Funnily enough people are not accepting the advice so full lockdown is the only alternative. Probably with large fines.

[Lowbankclaret]

No it hasn't. You just mean you've doesn't up even worse scenarios since.

I think you have had a spell check moment there.

[Jakubclaret]

Yes but a couple of posters in particular were being told they were over reacting , it has proved worse than what was being said back then.

That's true, even at the time the death tolls were increasing & the virus spreading, even some of the experts were forecasting & delivering stark warnings, a blind man entrenched in a deep dark cave could see what was going to happen.

[Jakubclaret]

There's probably a reason for that

Exactly & look where we are