Covid-19

[Tall Paul]

That doesn't say that they need permission from relatives, as you said.

[1HappyClaret]

That doesn't say that they need permission from relatives, as you said.

Rachel Clarke (@doctor_oxford) Tweeted: Why, as @BBCNewsnight's political editor @nicholaswatt reports here, has @DHSCgovuk changed its reporting of #COVID2019 fatalities? Why, as stated, is family consent now needed to release an anonymous mortality statistic?

Please can we have urgent clarity @matthancock? https://t.co/NZZB2XTtXi

[thatdberight]

Rachel Clarke (@doctor_oxford) Tweeted: Why, as @BBCNewsnight's political editor @nicholaswatt reports here, has @DHSCgovuk changed its reporting of #COVID2019 fatalities? Why, as stated, is family consent now needed to release an anonymous mortality statistic?

Please can we have urgent clarity @matthancock? https://t.co/NZZB2XTtXi

Needs clarity because it's certainly not needed to report numbers. Watt (18 years on The Guardian) seems to be the only one who has reported it this way. It certainly played well with his home crowd.

[mdd2]

as this thing has only started to kick off here in the last 3 weeks you can expect a lag time of about 10 days to deaths as I imagine IT units will have many of those who die on life support for at least 7-10 days unless they bet multi-organ failure.

[Lowbankclaret]

The 8pm clapping big success on our estate.

Everyone was out!

[Inchy]

Got in from work after 12.5 hours at the Covid factory.

Admitted another young man to ICU today but I think he will do well.

Ran out of the masks that I was fit tested on. Now apparently fit checking is fine, going against WHO and HSE guidelines. Unjustified other than it’s NHS England policy, which appears to accept a lower standard of protection of PPE.

In the role I am in if I get Covid it’s likely to be a large viral load meaning I’m much more likely to have serious covid.

If it’s supply issues I can deal with that. It’s a global pandemic there will be supply issues. But all we are hearing is “this is fine we know more about the virus now” but zero evidence to back that up.

[Lowbankclaret]

Got in from work after 12.5 hours at the Covid factory.

Admitted another young man to ICU today but I think he will do well.

Ran out of the masks that I was fit tested on. Now apparently fit checking is fine, going against WHO and HSE guidelines. Unjustified other than it’s NHS England policy, which appears to accept a lower standard of protection of PPE.

In the role I am in if I get Covid it’s likely to be a large viral load meaning I’m much more likely to have serious covid.

If it’s supply issues I can deal with that. It’s a global pandemic there will be supply issues. But all we are hearing is “this is fine we know more about the virus now” but zero evidence to back that up.

That’s not acceptable at all.

What type of masks do you use specifically??

[Inchy]

I use an alpha s mask. That’s the only mask that I passed on a fit test. Ran out this morning. None about


I get it’s not acceptable but it’s a global pandemic and no amount of money can buy stock that doesn’t exist. Some of my colleagues are taking it a little harder


We have been supplied with a boat load of 3M masks. I did a fit check (breath hard in and out and feel for leak, not a proper fit test as apparently that’s not needed......in contradiction of HSE) and the 3M seems to fit well.
I’m off work tomorrow but will go in to try and get this properly tested. I hope I pass but if not not sure what the option is

[tiger76]

For all our sakes let's hope London is the exception and not the rule.

A third of UK coronavirus deaths in London
There are now 578 people in the UK who have died with coronavirus.

Of those, 184 have died in London - just under a third.

A graph showing the number of coronavirus deaths in the UK by region



This tech study might help identify potential hotspots,and allow NHS managers to deploy available resources accordingly,there is a worry over privacy concerns understandably,but beggars can't be choosers i suppose.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52053565

[LoveCurryPies]

The hospitals are quieter than normal in some units. People aren’t going in when they have other illnesses, for fear of catching coronavirus.

My daughter had a patient die today, but if he had gone into hospital on Monday when the pains started, he most likely would have had a good outcome.

His death won’t be recorded as a coronavirus death.

[tiger76]

The hospitals are quieter than normal in some units. People aren’t going in when they have other illnesses, for fear of catching coronavirus.

My daughter had a patient die today, but if he had gone into hospital on Monday when the pains started, he most likely would have had a good outcome.

His death won’t be recorded as a coronavirus death.

Sad to hear that LCP.

This is the problem of prioritising CV patients above everything else,the reality is that other ailments and illnesses will continue,it's a tough balance to strike,but there was a news item earlier about cancer patients having their chemotherapy treatment suspended,and some of these are terminally ill,or have life-threatening tumours that need to be operated on ASAP,now they're left in limbo,and have no idea when they'll be seen.

It's sadly very likely that the coronavirus will impact on many people indirectly,whether through health or through economic hardship,these are the knock-on effects,that will last for months or possibly years down the line,even if covid-19 abates in the coming weeks,which is by no means guaranteed.

[paulatky]

Anyone watching Contagion on ITV 2 right now
Scary how real it has turned out to be.

[RingoMcCartney]

Heard that the Holiday Inn on Pendle Way has been commandeered by the NHS.

To be used for NHS staff. Who will not be unable to go home during this crisis , due to having vulnerable/ high risk relatives at home.

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

You are getting there: assets are things that generate income ("an asset is a resource with economic value... with the expectation that it will provide a future benefit") - gov'ts tend to tax that income, either as income tax or capital gains tax. Liabilities are "debts" and other obligations to pass "economic value" to others. "Wealth" is the sum of assets after "subtracting all debts" and other obligations to "pass economic value" to others.
So, tax income earned on assets, maybe allow the offset of "obligations" to "pass economic value to others" (and you can tax those others in receipt of that economic value). But, it's a very tough "gig" to tax wealth - if you do, you eventually take away the ability to receive income on assets - whereas, it's always possible to collect tax on a share of the income received on those assets.

The next thing to consider is assets and income earned/received in other tax jurisdictions and, put another way round, which gov't can tax which individuals. For example, UK gov't can tax individuals (and companies) that fall within the scope of UK taxation. The US gov't can do the same with individuals (and companies) in US. But, what do you do when a UK individual earns money in the US? Who gets to tax it? Is that income subject to "double tax?" There are international agreements that deal with these issues. The US takes the view that all US citizens (and, it's possible that this includes green card holders) are subject to their worldwide income. So, a US citizen living in UK remains subject to US taxation - with allowance for any tax paid in the UK. The UK takes a different approach. If a UK citizen moves to, lets take Spain as an example, then any earnings in Spain are not subject to UK tax.

****** Can any of those living in Spain on this mb confirm I have this right under today's rules? (These were the rules that applied when I worked in Netherlands in early 90s).

Okay cheers. The wealth tax idea is obviously not my own: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_ta ... _of_wealth. In your second paragraph, you basically spell out some of the practical difficulties I implied. I began in response to a comment about how we solve the social care crisis, and, implicitly, I was saying this is reliant on increasing government revenues. One solution is a wealth tax, but I have never been in any doubt there are difficulties. I have no qualms admitting that my understanding comes from left-economist du jour Thomas Piketty, a few articles by the Guardian economics editor Larry Elliot, plus bits and pieces I've gathered here and there. I don't have any background, or interest (personally or professionally), in the financial world beyond the necessary. I was also writing then, as now, reasonably intoxicated. However, I suspect a clever chap like you can see why it may at least be desirable to enable the government to get access to the extraordinary amounts of wealth created, and held, but which cannot, presently, be got at by the tax system. "How much?" is a political value question, and we may well differ there, but if one accepts the principle of government taxing its citizens in order to provide vital services, then I don't see why one should be incredulous about the notion of taxing all, or at least, more, sources of wealth, in order to fund the increasing cost of those vital services.

[Paul Waine]

Okay cheers. The wealth tax idea is obviously not my own: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_ta ... _of_wealth. In your second paragraph, you basically spell out some of the practical difficulties I implied. I began in response to a comment about how we solve the social care crisis, and, implicitly, I was saying this is reliant on increasing government revenues. One solution is a wealth tax, but I have never been in any doubt there are difficulties. I have no qualms admitting that my understanding comes from left-economist du jour Thomas Piketty, a few articles by the Guardian economics editor Larry Elliot, plus bits and pieces I've gathered here and there. I don't have any background, or interest (personally or professionally), in the financial world beyond the necessary. I was also writing then, as now, reasonably intoxicated. However, I suspect a clever chap like you can see why it may at least be desirable to enable the government to get access to the extraordinary amounts of wealth created, and held, but which cannot, presently, be got at by the tax system. "How much?" is a political value question, and we may well differ there, but if one accepts the principle of government taxing its citizens in order to provide vital services, then I don't see why one should be incredulous about the notion of taxing all, or at least, more, sources of wealth, in order to fund the increasing cost of those vital services.

Hmm, pretty big "practical difficulties..." such as which country are we speaking about and which country's citizens are we speaking about. I think you will allow me that Bill Gates is a US citizen and lives in the US... so, the proper gov't to make decisions about taxing Bill Gates should be the US gov't. Do we agree that? Then, let's put all the other US billionaires in the same "box" as Bill Gates. We can do the same with James Dyson, Jim Ratcliffe and Richard Branson - all UK citizens, so UK gov't can decide on taxing these guys, just like the do on me and, I assume you. Let's then make it a little more interesting, What do we do with Roman Abramovich, Russian citizen, so Russia taxes? But, RA owns Chelsea FC - and used to live in London (but doesn't now) - does that make him taxable in UK and if so, does the UK get to tax all of RA's income (and wealth), or just the bits that are earned in the UK? What do you think the world's governments will decide on this question? What agreements do you think they have made to handle this situation? In addition to RA, let's add in all the other Premier League (and some Championship) billionaires who are citizens of Middle Eastern countries, China, Thailand, USA? Then what do we do with all the foreign footballers and managers who come to play football in UK - and, generally, make fantastic amounts of money? What do we do with the income they make outside the UK, while being paid to play football in Premier League? Similarly, their wealth that they "leave" in the home country - or another country where they played/worked/invested before coming to the UK?
Let's assume that the all the world's gov'ts have worked out how to handle things across this national boundaries, so what are we left with? Different countries have different tax regimes. Different countries have different spending needs. Countries operate different rates of taxation.

I would not tax wealth, I think it's a very negative idea. Taxation should be focussed on (1) income, which of course, includes income earned from assets and (2) taxable transactions, including the purchase and sale of goods and services. I'm also of the opinion that "personal" trusts, i.e. those where the beneficiary of the trust are private families, where the establishment of these trusts is way beyond the means of the "ordinary man and woman" should have zero tax advantages. Income coming into these forms of trust should be taxable on the beneficiaries, just as if it was directly their own income. I'd get rid of stamp duty on purchase of residential property. I'd replace if with a land tax on the ownership of property. Why should the gov't take a tax windfall on the person who needs to move to start a new job? How does that benefit anyone? And, why should the person who has lived in their home a long time always avoid stamp duty by staying put... but, when you come to downsize, again pay a large windfall to the gov't? it only results in large houses, with several unused rooms once the children have moved out, leaving Mum and Dad to live there on their own.
Make the tax system simpler and we will collect more tax. Make the tax system simpler and it will also be a fairer tax system - and people will stop looking at the billionaires and wanting a bigger slice of someone else's wealth.

[Lord Rothbury]

All not well in the EU as ministers fail to agree on how to share the costs of the virus. Apparently Spain and Italy not happy at a decision being put back two weeks. Macron admits this could signal the end of the EU.

[KateR]

I was scan reading whilst my boss was blagging my head about a lack of parts in Singapore.

Multitasking not my strong point.

Multitasking, must be your feminine side coming out if you were Lowbank

[Mala591]

Let's hope that 3 weeks total lock down will be enough to flatten the infection rate peak and give the NHS sufficient time to prepare.

Anything beyond 3 weeks is (imo) going to be extremely difficult for the government to control as people become increasingly restless and impatient to get back to normal.

A VERY GRADUAL and well planned return to normal life should be high on the long list of the Covid-19 emergency strategy.

[KateR]

All not well in the EU as ministers fail to agree on how to share the costs of the virus. Apparently Spain and Italy not happy at a decision being put back two weeks. Macron admits this could signal the end of the EU.

following on from the link yesterday (below) Con Call this morning gave also an insight to the Dutch Gov. thinking, after numerous meetings with partners/employers believe they have a way to go from this doc but with ambition/hope for a better path. Both paths were outlined but the better path is seen as a clear stretch target. They do have a major concern regarding other EU countries particularly Italy Spain and France that they believe are at serious risk regarding recovery, China/Singapore/Korea due to different economies are expected to take a different path. US also seen to be having a worst case and Stretch Target (Trump pushing this as the face to the public) but carful with his word such as "I would like". No mention of the UK economy.

However I am sure all countries around the world will be looking at the scenario planning as the path they will take as we seen the virus beaten and normality (a new norm) return.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-funct ... r-business.

[Lowbankclaret]

Boris has tested positive for Covid 19.

[RingoMcCartney]

As of 12.00 27th march 2020 Sky News.

Coronavirus: Councils in England asked to house all rough sleepers by the weekend

Preparing for full lockdown?

[Grumps]

Let's hope that 3 weeks total lock down will be enough to flatten the infection rate peak and give the NHS sufficient time to prepare.

Anything beyond 3 weeks is (imo) going to be extremely difficult for the government to control as people become increasingly restless and impatient to get back to normal.

A VERY GRADUAL and well planned return to normal life should be high on the long list of the Covid-19 emergency strategy.

It will be interesting to see how counties like Spain, who rely heavily on tourism, come out of lockdown, they will not want to miss out on the summer holidays if at all possible

[KateR]

It will be interesting to see how counties like Spain, who rely heavily on tourism, come out of lockdown, they will not want to miss out on the summer holidays if at all possible

I would hazard a guess that Spain will not be back to normal for summer, be lucky for 2021 summer.

[FactualFrank]

With regards to coming out of lockdown, someone on the news mentioned something that I was thinking. It can't be like turning a tap from off to full blast. It needs to begin with turning the tap a small amount, so that water is dripping.

So when the time does come, which of course could be 3 months as opposed to 3 weeks, it will be Stage 1, where only certain people are allowed out as normal - the rest will still be in lockdown. Hopefully, the tests which are rumoured to be coming, is what will be used to enable this to happen, starting with people such as nurses and carers.

[CombatClaret]

The stages of the government's response to the EU's very successful ventilator and PPE procurement scheme. Ideology before your safety.

Week ago: “We are invited to be a part of that...we engaged with that process today”.

Two days ago: Won't participate because "making our own efforts... We are no longer members of the EU"

Yesterday - "the UK did not receive an invitation in time to join"

Today: "We will take part in any future schemes"

[Grumps]

I would hazard a guess that Spain will not be back to normal for summer, be lucky for 2021 summer.

Once hospitals can cope, countries will get back to normal and deal with it like any other virus. The economic pressure will be too big to do anything else.

[thatdberight]

The stages of the government's response to the EU's very successful ventilator and PPE procurement scheme. Ideology before your safety.

Week ago: “We are invited to be a part of that...we engaged with that process today”.

Two days ago: Won't participate because "making our own efforts... We are no longer members of the EU"

Yesterday - "the UK did not receive an invitation in time to join"

Today: "We will take part in any future schemes"

Last I heard, European Commission spokesperson Stefan De Keersmaecker was looking into the claim that the communications were cocked up leading to our exclusion.

I guess truth is also a casualty of ideology.

[AndrewJB]

Last I heard, European Commission spokesperson Stefan De Keersmaecker was looking into the claim that the communications were cocked up leading to our exclusion.

I guess truth is also a casualty of ideology.

Yesterday the government said they missed the deadline, after earlier saying we didn’t join it because we’re not in the EU.

[CombatClaret]

Yesterday the government said they missed the deadline.

A week before Matt Hancock said on TV we'd got the invitation and were engaging with the process. I smell spin and BS, would rather look like we don't need the EU's help than save lives.

[paulatky]

Let's hope that 3 weeks total lock down will be enough to flatten the infection rate peak and give the NHS sufficient time to prepare.

Anything beyond 3 weeks is (imo) going to be extremely difficult for the government to control as people become increasingly restless and impatient to get back to normal.

A VERY GRADUAL and well planned return to normal life should be high on the long list of the Covid-19 emergency strategy.

Boris and all medical staff have indicated longer upto 12 weeks.
The next breakthrough is the new test which will show not only if you have it but also if you have had it and are immune.That test is at least a month away.

All the financial help offered by the government was announced was for 3 months or as long as it takes.

For most of us it either getting the virus ot self isolating until there is vaccine ie 12-18 months

[AndrewJB]

A week before Matt Hancock said on TV we'd got the invitation and were engaging with the process. I smell spin and BS, would rather look like we don't need the EU's help than save lives.

I think you’re probably right - brexit before breathing.

[KateR]

Once hospitals can cope, countries will get back to normal and deal with it like any other virus. The economic pressure will be too big to do anything else.

you're in a small minority regarding that, they will want to but being able to do so is a very different thing, all will be trying there best for sure, but I previously put out some pictorial details around the virus and the amount of time regarding the virus will in my opinion mean Spain and other countries will be now where near back to normal this summer. Then the added effects of all the people who have seen there livelihoods reduced will mean they will be looking to save not spend for the rest of this year. Maybe later in the year some will want to get away but most likely will still be afraid of the virus and will stay in there home countries.

[Grumps]

you're in a small minority regarding that, they will want to but being able to do so is a very different thing, all will be trying there best for sure, but I previously put out some pictorial details around the virus and the amount of time regarding the virus will in my opinion mean Spain and other countries will be now where near back to normal this summer. Then the added effects of all the people who have seen there livelihoods reduced will mean they will be looking to save not spend for the rest of this year. Maybe later in the year some will want to get away but most likely will still be afraid of the virus and will stay in there home countries.

Only going off what the chief medical officer said, and an article in the press about 2 days ago.
Iam resigned to having my holiday in May cancelled, but expect to go on the one in October.

[MrTopTier]

Boris been tested positive for Covid-19

Ian Duncan Smith has declared him fit for work.

[Grumps]

Ian Duncan Smith has declared him fit for work.

But fit for purpose?

[KateR]

Only going off what the chief medical officer said, and an article in the press about 2 days ago.
Iam resigned to having my holiday in May cancelled, but expect to go on the one in October.

hope it works out for you, hubby is supposed to be having a bonding holiday with our eldest mid May in California, Flights, hotels and car all booked, he doesn't think it will happen

[MrTopTier]

Definitely fit for purpose, never been a fan, but he’s doing a sound job at the moment.

[Grumps]

Definitely fit for purpose, never been a fan, but he’s doing a sound job at the moment.

I meant Duncan Smith!!!

[Bordeauxclaret]

One great positive is that we don’t have Donald Trump in charge over here.
I really feel for the Americans.

[paulatky]

Once hospitals can cope, countries will get back to normal and deal with it like any other virus. The economic pressure will be too big to do anything else.

Just shows how little you know about this crisis.

[NewClaret]

The hospitals are quieter than normal in some units. People aren’t going in when they have other illnesses, for fear of catching coronavirus.

My daughter had a patient die today, but if he had gone into hospital on Monday when the pains started, he most likely would have had a good outcome.

His death won’t be recorded as a coronavirus death.

Absolutely agree with this.

My wife is a cardiac nurse. Her role involves working across multiple wards, and she says many are completely empty with people staying away - either in fear or support. Sadly many will die for not presenting to hospitals, which will be a hidden killer. Very sad!

[KateR]

One great positive is that we don’t have Donald Trump in charge over here.
I really feel for the Americans.

Just shows how little you know but definitely not shy of telling people you're uninformed opinions, these political negative bashing should be done on the Boris Bashing thread rather than here where I like to read what is happening world wide and not the political views here

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Just shows how little you know but definitely not shy of telling people you're uninformed opinions, these political negative bashing should be done on the Boris Bashing thread rather than here where I like to read what is happening world wide and not the political views here

Shows how little he knows by saying thank god we don't have Trump??

[joey13]

Absolutely agree with this.

My wife is a cardiac nurse. Her role involves working across multiple wards, and she says many are completely empty with people staying away - either in fear or support. Sadly many will die for not presenting to hospitals, which will be a hidden killer. Very sad!

Or canceling planned operations ,like in my own case

[KateR]

yes it does, so don't you start either please, start a Trump bashing thread where you can air your ignorances

[Lowbankclaret]

I am taking the lack of posts from the main protagonists as a sign they have suddenly realised how really serious this is.

Welcome to my world many weeks ago.

Think we should shout out to Inchy, wish I could find him some masks but that search was fruitless.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

yes it does, so don't you start either please, start a Trump bashing thread where you can air your ignorances

So people who don't support Trump are ignorant but people who use the word "ignorances" are...?

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

ig·no·rance (ĭg′nər-əns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
i.e. People who use the term "ignorances".

[Grumps]

Just shows how little you know about this crisis.

Not my words mate, those of the CMO, and other prominent scientists in the press.

[KateR]

So people who don't support Trump are ignorant but people who use the word "ignorances" are...?

If you and the other poster, or anyone else that continues to continually state there "facts" about Trump would like to trot out there reasons why they should be listened to as "experts" then I am all ears. Let me know how long you've lived in the USA, which states, how many Americans you talk to yearly monthly weekly daily, plus do they have credentials, what are they?

I am not talking about journalists or news outlets, quoting from other people.

Just think about this, I see what Ringo, has to say about you, should I take it as gospel and start a thread about you, or would I be ignorant to that?

Finally no of course people who don't support Trump are not ignorant, nor are the Corbyn supporters, nor are BJ's supporters. But people who just make band statements like Americans are fat, they are loud, Trump is stupid, they are ignorant, you can add LBGT, and many other things to the list, all I have to say is don't show your ignorance about things you really have zero knowledge about, try asking questions first and try to learn.