Covid-19

[AlargeClaret]

The regional super hospitals will be our backbone in the next few weeks when things likely get a bit shitty. The work the army have done is remarkable , low key on news as they can’t publically state 30,000 squaddies are building field hospitals and not ready to defend etc .But the work these boys and girls are doing , engineers , logistics ,sappers , medics et al is absolutely brilliant .

[thatdberight]

Much criticism of Donald Trump earlier in this thread for trying to persuade a German medical company to relocate.

Anybody a fan of M. Macron?
https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/cor ... -in-france

[Paul Waine]

why dozens of viral labs were not put into action sooner instead of centralizing all our testing at one site.

that specific question does look like it's an issue of a state owned and managed National Health System - UK versus an insurance based health care system (where the German government doesn't own all the hospitals, doesn't employ all the doctors and the nurses) - Germany.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Germ ... -hospitals

I don't expect any government minister mentioning that question at any time while we are faced with covid-19 challenge. I don't expect any opposition member raising that question, either.

We have the system we have and all working in the NHS (and beyond) are doing their best.

Let's give them all the support we can give them - including observing all the rules, regulations, guidelines and advice and keeping ourselves safe and the NHS looking after everyone's health.

[Jakubclaret]

You're sorted then. If that's life for you, you'll be able to continue it even afterwards.

No I'm afraid you are mistaken that's actually life for you for the foreseeable future like it or not, you can either accept it or carrying on complaining about, I'm not fussed it's your call? I know for certain complaining about it won't change things.

[Zlatan]

I watched Piers Morgan on tv this morning (sometimes I need a change). "Why is Germany doing 10 times for tests than UK." "Germany 500,000 per week." "UK 10,000 per day."

Thing is, there are 7 days in a week, so 10,000 x 7 = 70,000. Meaning Germany is doing 7 times more than UK, not 10 times.

Why make comparisons by quoting different periods? Look "I have a big number." Look, "I'm now quoting a little number."

It's not one of the media's best features.

Plus, why don't the media ask Germany what they think they are doing differently - and then bring that into the UK press conferences and ask their questions that way?

I do agree with you, but the reality is that 7 rounded up is 10... whereas we’ve had figures quoted on here that are an order or two of magnitude awry, and no one bats an eyelid and in fact often gets praised because it suits an agenda

[FactualFrank]

My friend keeps saying "cheer up mate, it could be worse, you could be stuck underground in a hole full of water!"

I know he means well.

[AndrewJB]

Perhaps If they answered the question people wouldn’t need to speculate?

Gove lying yesterday. Didn’t even listen to today’s, probably more of the same. Mistakes will be made - that’s normal - but to lie to try to cover it over is just an additional insult to the public.

[thatdberight]

No I'm afraid you are mistaken that's actually life for you for the foreseeable future like it or not, you can either accept it or carrying on complaining about, I'm not fussed it's your call? I know for certain complaining about it won't change things.

I haven't complained about it. For now, this seems an appropriate response to the potential damage caused. Not sure where you got me complaining about it.

[thatdberight]

Gove lying yesterday.

What lie was this?

[Zlatan]

What lie was this?

It’ll be when a politicians lips are moving...

[thatdberight]

It’ll be when a politicians lips are moving...

Some have a more partial view than your very balanced one.

[Devils_Advocate]

Seems there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about testing especially in relation to what Germany has achieved.

Thought I would share this article for those interested as I think its a really good piece that explores a lot of different ideas. Its a longish read but as I say if interested I think its worth the effort

https://reaction.life/why-is-germany-ab ... an-the-uk/

[tim_noone]

New infections are dropping daily in Milan..deaths still high.obviously very high death rate but italian claret is unaware of anyone he knows dying.hes a key worker but otherwise total lockdown.he seems calm in the circumstances.

[Lowbankclaret]

Well there’s a turn up.

My company have said they will cover all my mates manufacturing costs on PPE for Airedale.

Be on a local papers front page soon, they never miss a PR opportunity.

[thatdberight]

Thought I would share this article for those interested as I think its a really good piece that explores a lot of different ideas. Its a longish read but as I say if interested I think its worth the effort

Seconded. I have read it and will re-read it later when I can cross-reference some of the things I didn't fully follow.

Rightly or wrongly, one of threads in his piece - about the different ways centralisation of provision affects response - will be off the table forever in the UK after this.

[Lowbankclaret]

I watched Piers Morgan on tv this morning (sometimes I need a change). "Why is Germany doing 10 times for tests than UK." "Germany 500,000 per week." "UK 10,000 per day."

Thing is, there are 7 days in a week, so 10,000 x 7 = 70,000. Meaning Germany is doing 7 times more than UK, not 10 times.

Why make comparisons by quoting different periods? Look "I have a big number." Look, "I'm now quoting a little number."

It's not one of the media's best features.

Plus, why don't the media ask Germany what they think they are doing differently - and then bring that into the UK press conferences and ask their questions that way?

To be fair we have been doing around 8000 to 8500.

[KateR]

Seems there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about testing especially in relation to what Germany has achieved.

Thought I would share this article for those interested as I think its a really good piece that explores a lot of different ideas. Its a longish read but as I say if interested I think its worth the effort

https://reaction.life/why-is-germany-ab ... an-the-uk/

it Is interesting but fairly well know that Germany is one of the leaders in Biotech world wide I thought, this in and of itself is one of the major reasons they are where they are and other countries are lagging behind, also the structure of the heath care is a factor as pointed out. However, following previous discussions it is of equal or perhaps even more important on how you use the results of the test, the instigative work and finding those that a confirmed person has been in contact with over the period before the test is critical to isolating them to help prevent the spread.

It's almost as though some countries, UK/US included could not react how Germany did for the reasons given and therefore were unable to trace/isolate/mitigate. Hence I could see in my minds eye the thought process of well, the cats out pf the bag, we will never catch up, let's go the heard mentally. Then as the leaps occur, it's back to the, wow, maybe we should be testing, let's try to catch up, many many countries, most of Europe included went this route, the infection rate was a lot higher than the testing/tracing/isolate.

[Jakubclaret]

I haven't complained about it. For now, this seems an appropriate response to the potential damage caused. Not sure where you got me complaining about it.

It certainly doesn't come across that way I don't wish to get into an argument if you do or don't complain, I've got the impression you seem to have a cavalier attitude regarding the virus & the dangers it carries & I've felt that way for a number of weeks, maybe there's merit to that or maybe there isn't.

[thatdberight]

It certainly doesn't come across that way I don't wish to get into an argument if you do or don't complain, I've got the impression you seem to have a cavalier attitude regarding the virus & the dangers it carries & I've felt that way for a number of weeks, maybe there's merit to that or maybe there isn't.

I certainly am cavalier about it compared to you. The facts are one thing but our responses to those fact can't be assumed to all be the same. I wouldn't stop you hiding away from this, or other germs or bombs in shopping centres as much as you want.

[Bfcboyo]

it Is interesting but fairly well know that Germany is one of the leaders in Biotech world wide I thought, this in and of itself is one of the major reasons they are where they are and other countries are lagging behind, also the structure of the heath care is a factor as pointed out. However, following previous discussions it is of equal or perhaps even more important on how you use the results of the test, the instigative work and finding those that a confirmed person has been in contact with over the period before the test is critical to isolating them to help prevent the spread.

It's almost as though some countries, UK/US included could not react how Germany did for the reasons given and therefore were unable to trace/isolate/mitigate. Hence I could see in my minds eye the thought process of well, the cats out pf the bag, we will never catch up, let's go the heard mentally. Then as the leaps occur, it's back to the, wow, maybe we should be testing, let's try to catch up, many many countries, most of Europe included went this route, the infection rate was a lot higher than the testing/tracing/isolate.

Spot on . I've been a total fool now it is obvious.


The Germans started it. Why oh why didn't I see this sooner.

And on a serious note we need to heavily invest the nations stockpiled loo roles once this is over into dealing with future epidemics .

[Rileybobs]

You can have a good quality of life indoors just as much as outdoors if not better, it's warmer cheaper & you've got all the entertainment in the world, with firesticks & video console's ect. Give me that any day of the week over a busy shopping centre where you are spending more money & catching germs not to mention possible bombings although that threat seems to have cooled off.

Reckon you’d like prison. It’d be cheaper too and you wouldn’t have to do your own cooking and cleaning!

[martin_p]

What lie was this?

He lied about the chemicals needed for the test kits being in short supply. The industry immediately corrected him adding they’d not been asked to increase production either.

[tim_noone]

Reckon you’d like prison. It’d be cheaper too and you wouldn’t have to do your own cooking and cleaning!

Hes currently in strange ways ...cleaning is compulsory

[thatdberight]

He lied about the chemicals needed for the test kits being in short supply. The industry immediately corrected him adding they’d not been asked to increase production either.

This was covered last night. Peston almost immediately withdrew that and there are loads of other sources talking about the shortage. I doubt you'll accept it but that's what happened.

[Paul Waine]

This was covered last night. Peston almost immediately withdrew that and there are loads of other sources talking about the shortage. I doubt you'll accept it but that's what happened.

Out of interest, what is the procedure when it's the journalist that's got something wrong and the politician, despite first reporting, was factual and accurate?

[KateR]

Spot on . I've been a total fool now it is obvious.


The Germans started it. Why oh why didn't I see this sooner.

And on a serious note we need to heavily invest the nations stockpiled loo roles once this is over into dealing with future epidemics .

see you're back on the sauce, that's if you ever left it.

“It is not the strongest of species that will survive nor the most intelligent but the most adaptable to change”. I think you're in trouble lol

[Bfcboyo]

I like the quote who is it my googles broke?

[Bfcboyo]

I'll go Darwin

[CombatClaret]

that specific question does look like it's an issue of a state owned and managed National Health System - UK versus an insurance based health care system (where the German government doesn't own all the hospitals, doesn't employ all the doctors and the nurses) - Germany.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Germ ... -hospitals

I don't expect any government minister mentioning that question at any time while we are faced with covid-19 challenge. I don't expect any opposition member raising that question, either.

We have the system we have and all working in the NHS (and beyond) are doing their best.

It has nothing to do with Health Systems really, these labs are in universities/med schools around the country.
Every biology department in every university has dozens of machines which can run dozens or even hundreds of tests at once, its a very basic process in medical terms, year one stuff.
Surely these are the first places you get on the phone to If you know soon you will be required to do a shed load of testing, should have been one of the first points on the checklist in the 'Pandemic Plan' file.

[Paul Waine]

It has nothing to do with Health Systems really, these labs are in universities/med schools around the country.
Every biology department in every university has dozens of machines which can run dozens or even hundreds of tests at once, its a very basic process in medical terms, year one stuff.
Surely these are the first places you get on the phone to If you know soon you will be required to do a shed load of testing, should have been one of the first points on the checklist in the 'Pandemic Plan' file.

My point is that if your health service is centralised, then the centre decides what needs to be done. "We already have a testing centre... why involve someone elses?" type of thinking.

In Germany, there isn't a central authority. It is decentralised. A lot of the big hospitals are university based - and it would appear will make their own local decisions.

So, yes, year one, we have a local problem how do we solve it locally? Let's get our lab on the job.

[dsr]

He lied about the chemicals needed for the test kits being in short supply. The industry immediately corrected him adding they’d not been asked to increase production either.

I suppose if you hear a government minister saying something, and a bloke on Twitter saying the opposite, you're bound to believe the bloke on Twitter. If it suits your prejudice.

[thatdberight]

Out of interest, what is the procedure when it's the journalist that's got something wrong and the politician, despite first reporting, was factual and accurate?

It doesn't work like that. It's like when a linesman gets the movement of ball, passer, receiver, two defenders and another forward wrong and gives a marginal offside the wrong way. The manager bleats about that after the match despite the real problem being the three sitters his centre-forward missed...

Peston, at least, did correct himself. Unlike Nick Watt of Newsnight whose misreporting started the much-parroted, "They're fixing the numbers by making family members sign off the CoVid19 diagnosis" nonsense.

[CombatClaret]

My point is that if your health service is centralised, then the centre decides what needs to be done. "We already have a testing centre... why involve someone elses?" type of thinking.
In Germany, there isn't a central authority. It is decentralised. A lot of the big hospitals are university based - and it would appear will make their own local decisions.
So, yes, year one, we have a local problem how do we solve it locally? Let's get our lab on the job.

I just think when it's clear from Day 1 (which should have been some time in January) you have not got the capacity needed you should be stating to look for external solutions.
I'm sure someone in the German government will be overseeing and collating all these disparate elements toward the common goal.

It just seeks like very basic oversight and the sort of stuff you should have war gamed years ago.

The fact that we did actually war game this very situation in 2016, revealing gaping flaws in our emergency response plan, and based on the results we seem to have done nothing to improve.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... overnment/

[RingoMcCartney]

Coronavirus: Russia sends plane full of medical supplies to US

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... lies-to-us

Russia has dispatched a cargo plane with masks and medical equipment to the US after Donald Trump accepted an offer of humanitarian aid from Vladimir Putin to fight the coronavirus outbreak.

[tim_noone]

I just think when it's clear from Day 1 (which should have been some time in January) you have not got the capacity needed you should be stating to look for external solutions.
I'm sure someone in the German government will be overseeing and collating all these disparate elements toward the common goal.

It just seeks like very basic oversight and the sort of stuff you should have war gamed years ago.

The fact that we did actually war game this very situation in 2016, revealing gaping flaws in our emergency response plan, and based on the results we seem to have done nothing to improve.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... overnment/

To your last paragraph. Bill Gates 2015 had his eye on the ball I believe.

[Wile E Coyote]

Farage has put a vid out saying the situation is over the top here. Hes having a pop at the double standards. planes still arriving at heathrow with passengers from all the global hotspots , entering without testing and using public transport to return home here.

[Steve1956]

FB_IMG_1585780778705.jpg (27.45 KiB) Viewed 3011 times

[Spiral]

Coronavirus: Russia sends plane full of medical supplies to US

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... lies-to-us

Russia has dispatched a cargo plane with masks and medical equipment to the US after Donald Trump accepted an offer of humanitarian aid from Vladimir Putin to fight the coronavirus outbreak.

What a propaganda coup that is for Russia. Though, being the recipient of Russian aid is quite on-brand for Trump. It is alleged they ('they' as in, the Russian mafia...as in, the Russian government...as in, because there's no difference between the two) were the only ones willing to lend him money when he was on the verge of bankruptcy in the years prior to his presidential run.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

As long as we keep ‘ramping things up’ it’ll be fine.

[RingoMcCartney]

What a propaganda coup that is for Russia. Though, being the recipient of Russian aid is quite on-brand for Trump. It is alleged they ('they' as in, the Russian mafia...as in, the Russian government...as in, because there's no difference between the two) were the only ones willing to lend him money when he was on the verge of bankruptcy in the years prior to his presidential run.

I see. So what you're saying, is that with Trump, the financial shysters backed their guy, for favours he would do on their behalf, before he took office.

Where as, with Tony Bliar, the financial shysters backed their guy , for the favours he has done on their behalf, after he left office,

Works for me.....

[CombatClaret]

US & UK daily death tolls are accelerating in a straight line on a log scale chart, i.e still increasing exponentially.

~All other countries had begun slowing the rate of increase in deaths by now.

[Bfcboyo]

Remember the yellow line is false.

[dsr]

By "all other countries" you mean Spain, Italy, France, China, South Korea. And the Chinese line is dubious and the Spanish line looks very like the UK one to date.

I take it that Monday's increase due to the extra 100+ deaths at home, added all in one go rather than over the whole period because of the change in counting method, has been somehow smoothed in that graph? You aren't taking the Monday recount into your figures?

[CombatClaret]

UK death toll is now higher than Italy’s at the same stage and accelerating faster.

London's death toll is higher than Wuhan's at the same stage and accelerating faster.

The government sat and watched both play out weeks or months in advance. We were last or second last in Europe to almost every social distancing/lockdown measures keeping pubs and schools open far too late (Cheltnam f**king Festival!).
Choosing only to listen to studies/advise it liked the sounds of and we still haven't gone as far as we could.
We didn't procure resources when we could, we either ignored or overlooked offers of help from companies/organisations.

This government has treated it like a PR crisis not a health one, managing public opinion over the health of it's population.

The roads ahead were clear as day, it could be seen on the news in other countries around the world and our government has failed us, it will have the blood of thousands on it's hands.

[dsr]

I take it that Monday's increase due to the extra 100+ deaths at home, added all in one go rather than over the whole period because of the change in counting method, has been somehow smoothed in that graph? You aren't taking the Monday recount into your figures?

[CombatClaret]

By "all other countries" you mean Spain, Italy, France, China, South Korea. And the Chinese line is dubious and the Spanish line looks very like the UK one to date.

The countries you mention show a modest curve, ours and the US are as good are straight, rising and accelerating.

[atlantalad]

Seems there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about testing especially in relation to what Germany has achieved.

Thought I would share this article for those interested as I think its a really good piece that explores a lot of different ideas. Its a longish read but as I say if interested I think its worth the effort

https://reaction.life/why-is-germany-ab ... an-the-uk/

A good article but it has some inaccuracies. Novacyte is a UK biotech company which developed a Cov-19 test on 3 Feb. It got CE approval mid February, approved by PHE beginning of March and obtained FDA approval about 20 March. If you research the company you will find it has supplied the NHS with over 1 million test kits, and could supply considerably more but the bottle neck is the limited ( and PHE approved ) test centres in the UK. If you look at my post ~ 12:10 am yesterday wrt reagents and test facilities you will see the UK has only 44 certified test facilities. This is, as the article states, because the UK centralises clinical tests through the PHE quango. By contrast Germany allows each state to use private and public sector testing facilities.

The upshot is the Novacyt tests take 2 hours to perform (which is world leading) so 20000 tests per day needs each lab to complete over 450 tests in a day. There is just not the capacity or resources in those 44 centres to do that number of tests.

[Spiral]

I see. So what you're saying, is that with Trump, the financial shysters backed their guy, for favours he would do on their behalf, before he took office.

Where as, with Tony Bliar, the financial shysters backed their guy , for the favours he has done on their behalf, after he left office,

Works for me.....

Weird response.

[CombatClaret]

Another example of this being treated as a PR crisis not a health emergency.
We've had the EU scheme debacle as well as specialist ventilator companies saying they weren't even contacted before contracts went to Dyson & other Tory donors.

Screenshot_2020-04-02-02-22-44-396_com.twitter.android.jpg (113.75 KiB) Viewed 2881 times

[THEWELLERNUT70]

All bickering and w@nkeridge pointless point scoring aside we've just lost a close family friend this evening due to the COVID19 virus.

It's on your local doorstep believe me!

Admitted around 8pm this evening and dead before 10:15

Now get that through your thick fu**ing heads