Covid-19
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Re: Covid-19
So, according to the latest update by Hancoxk today the bottleneck in testing is the PHE. The PHE's response to fighting the virus has been wholly lacking. They do not seem to have tried to coordinate a national response to fight the virus. Instead, they seem to have kept efforts in-house and have been pursuing the testing protocols themselves - seem their motive is plain vanity rather than helping the health of the population. This is apparent form Hancock praise - one of 1'st in world to decode the virus DNA and come up with a test. That is nonsense. There are many other companies who had tests available at the beginning of February with 99.9% specificity and these companies have been consistently overlooked in supplying the NHS with test kits and analytical platforms. There are many companies worldwide working on developing antigen and antibody tests besides PHE's own Porton Down facility. Why can't the PHE consider tests from these other establishments for evaluation? Is it a case of - not developed by the PHE so not worth consideration?
The public appointment today ( probably a few weeks late) of Prof Newton to coordinate efforts of the PHE is an acknowledgement of the failure of PHE and their insular response thus far. Lets hope we see some substantial progress now that PHE are "allowing" commercial entities, university labs and industry to be involved.
The public appointment today ( probably a few weeks late) of Prof Newton to coordinate efforts of the PHE is an acknowledgement of the failure of PHE and their insular response thus far. Lets hope we see some substantial progress now that PHE are "allowing" commercial entities, university labs and industry to be involved.
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Re: Covid-19
Or maybe they're underfunded or maybe one individual at the top has underperformed or maybe there's some other cog in the wheel not working or maybe the instructions weren't clear from government or maybe some other bit of the civil service or or...atlantalad wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:08 pmSo, according to the latest update by Hancoxk today the bottleneck in testing is the PHE. The PHE's response to fighting the virus has been wholly lacking. They do not seem to have tried to coordinate a national response to fight the virus. Instead, they seem to have kept efforts in-house and have been pursuing the testing protocols themselves - seem their motive is plain vanity rather than helping the health of the population. This is apparent form Hancock praise - one of 1'st in world to decode the virus DNA and come up with a test. That is nonsense. There are many other companies who had tests available at the beginning of February with 99.9% specificity and these companies have been consistently overlooked in supplying the NHS with test kits and analytical platforms. There are many companies worldwide working on developing antigen and antibody tests besides PHE's own Porton Down facility. Why can't the PHE consider tests from these other establishments for evaluation? Is it a case of - not developed by the PHE so not worth consideration?
The public appointment today ( probably a few weeks late) of Prof Newton to coordinate efforts of the PHE is an acknowledgement of the failure of PHE and their insular response thus far. Lets hope we see some substantial progress now that PHE are "allowing" commercial entities, university labs and industry to be involved.
Complicated old world out there
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Re: Covid-19
Funding issue - they get £4.5 bn a year public funding.
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Re: Covid-19
NHS gets £134bn and always makes the case they need more.
Re: Covid-19
It’s because they dothatdberight wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:22 pmNHS gets £134bn and always makes the case they need more.
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Re: Covid-19
Another one on the "blame PHE" bandwagon.atlantalad wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:08 pmSo, according to the latest update by Hancoxk today the bottleneck in testing is the PHE. The PHE's response to fighting the virus has been wholly lacking. They do not seem to have tried to coordinate a national response to fight the virus. Instead, they seem to have kept efforts in-house and have been pursuing the testing protocols themselves - seem their motive is plain vanity rather than helping the health of the population. This is apparent form Hancock praise - one of 1'st in world to decode the virus DNA and come up with a test. That is nonsense. There are many other companies who had tests available at the beginning of February with 99.9% specificity and these companies have been consistently overlooked in supplying the NHS with test kits and analytical platforms. There are many companies worldwide working on developing antigen and antibody tests besides PHE's own Porton Down facility. Why can't the PHE consider tests from these other establishments for evaluation? Is it a case of - not developed by the PHE so not worth consideration?
The public appointment today ( probably a few weeks late) of Prof Newton to coordinate efforts of the PHE is an acknowledgement of the failure of PHE and their insular response thus far. Lets hope we see some substantial progress now that PHE are "allowing" commercial entities, university labs and industry to be involved.
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Re: Covid-19
Heaven forbid we blame the people who's job it is, or more importantly the people who oversee and set their funding.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/richholmes/uk- ... irus-tests
Public Health England failed to follow up on a request in January to use the testing capabilities of the UK's animal health agency, which its staff say could carry out 40,000 tests a week.
Re: Covid-19
Will depend how many tests per day we do.Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pmAs a comparison , here is our daily cases graph. Today’s numbers are very similar to yesterday’s so you can add another bar to this graph. So we are still on the up unfortunately. When will we plateau, that’s the question??
What we need to watch for is the next step up in two or three days. If that’s does not happen, that will be good news.
7A72F20D-4150-4ABB-A6E4-558A80DC9D7A.png
As we increase the number of daily tests carried out this chart is meaningless.
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Re: Covid-19
Rather than a ‘missed email’ that led to UK missing out on vital supplies; Starting January the UK had 8 EU meetings to discuss Covid-19 and still didn’t take part.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -officials
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -officials
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Re: Covid-19
Anyone else starting to wish Matt Hancock gets taken out asap.
Gormless idiot
Gormless idiot
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Re: Covid-19
Data is never meaningless in my humble opinion.
When you do more testing you could weight the data based on that.
In percentage terms the number went up greater than the number of tests.
If the tests go up and we still get a plateau then I would argue statistically it’s more probable that we have a got there.
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Re: Covid-19
Makes you wonder if they actually want to increase testing by 400% when the number of confirmed cases will increase at a similar rate. 10,000+ new cases per day wouldn't give the public much confidence that they have this anywhere near under control.
Re: Covid-19
Coronavirus: 'Transmission rate may have fallen below one', says NHS England
In the government’s latest coronavirus briefing, Steve Powis from NHS England has said there was early academic evidence that showed the "transmission rate may have fallen below one".
However, he said this would take time to "translate into changes" and said everyone should continue complying with measures.
In the government’s latest coronavirus briefing, Steve Powis from NHS England has said there was early academic evidence that showed the "transmission rate may have fallen below one".
However, he said this would take time to "translate into changes" and said everyone should continue complying with measures.
Re: Covid-19
Looks as though the government ran a pandemic drill in 2016, but never released the report.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... emic-drill
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... emic-drill
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Re: Covid-19
Come up a couple times here, lack of PPE was noted at the time. Also it was run purely internally and reaching out to unviersities, animals testing etc was never war gamed. “inadequate ventilation” was also raised.AndrewJB wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:44 pmLooks as though the government ran a pandemic drill in 2016, but never released the report.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... emic-drill
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... overnment/
NHS, Public Health England and Department of Health Influenza Pandemic Planning Documents - 238 pages and 'Ventilator' is mentioned once.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 133656.pdf (2011)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 131040.pdf (2012)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 13_Aug.pdf (2014)
All these documents were written prior to the 2016 test but never updated or revised despite the test being widely regarded as an abject failure.
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Re: Covid-19
On the 7th March I was on the Turf watching us play Spurs. Think about that. Less than a month ago. (Dont know about you, but I'd love to be going ballistic in a crowd , remember them, at a linesman for not flagging a clear offside ) Just days after , everything thing changed. What's happened since then in ALL COUNTRIES in Europe and globally has, in peace time , certainly in living memory, never been seen before.martin_p wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:48 pmWell given I already posted that it seems there was no sort of pandemic plan I think I’ve answered that. It’s even more damning when you consider they’d already modelled a pandemic scenario four years ago, knew exactly what the problems would be, but didn’t do any planning to mitigate.
The various responses from the different national governments has been usually, just a matter of a few days apart, as each country's reaction has kicked in. Germany is held up as the gold standard. But they were late in closing their borders and locking down. Sweden is still, as we speak, relatively relaxed about the situation.
When all this is over, on years to come, and people look back. These relatively small differences in timescales between each government will seem largely insignificant. Perhaps not to those who lost loved ones ( I have 3 very close family members in the " at risk " group and a daughter in her 20s who, earlier this week has been for a fitting for her PPE. She's been moved from her office based role to a spare pair of hands on the ward) but, early 2020 will be the time seen as when this horrendous situation began for the West. The differnce in days , perhaps weeks, in some cases between how one government reacted compared to another and the petty political point scoring will , by then, have become irrelevant and redundant.
There will be criticism of ALL governments.
Why?
Because a perfect response to an unprecedented pandemic, does not exist. Perfection does not exist
Re: Covid-19
There’s only you mentioning a ‘perfect response’. What I’m talking about is the U.K. government knowing what the problems would be but not having a plan to mitigate them. And we were given a forward look at what would happen but still we didn’t take mitigating action.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:17 pmOn the 7th March I was on the Turf watching us play Spurs. Think about that. Less than a month ago. (Dont know about you, but I'd love to be going ballistic in a crowd , remember them, at a linesman for not flagging a clear offside ) Just days after , everything thing changed. What's happened since then in ALL COUNTRIES in Europe and globally has, in peace time , certainly in living memory, never been seen before.
The various responses from the different national governments has been usually, just a matter of a few days apart, as each country's reaction has kicked in. Germany is held up as the gold standard. But they were late in closing their borders and locking down. Sweden is still, as we speak, relatively relaxed about the situation.
When all this is over, on years to come, and people look back. These relatively small differences in timescales between each government will seem largely insignificant. Perhaps not to those who lost loved ones ( I have 3 very close family members in the " at risk " group and a daughter in her 20s who, earlier this week has been for a fitting for her PPE. She's been moved from her office based role to a spare pair of hands on the ward) but, early 2020 will be the time seen as when this horrendous situation began for the West. The differnce in days , perhaps weeks, in some cases between how one government reacted compared to another and the petty political point scoring will , by then, have become irrelevant and redundant.
There will be criticism of ALL governments.
Why?
Because a perfect response to an unprecedented pandemic, does not exist. Perfection does not exist
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Re: Covid-19
China locks down 640,000 amid ‘silent’ coronavirus outbreak,
Flaring up again in China
Flaring up again in China
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Re: Covid-19
When all this is over, will the relative death tolls be so glaringly different, thanks to the various governments responses? Time , tragically, will tell, I'm afraid.martin_p wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:27 pmThere’s only you mentioning a ‘perfect response’. What I’m talking about is the U.K. government knowing what the problems would be but not having a plan to mitigate them. And we were given a forward look at what would happen but still we didn’t take mitigating action.
Does it ever occur to you that other governments could also be criticised for "knowing what the problems would be but not having a plan to mitigate them. And we were given a forward look at what would happen but still we didn’t take mitigating action."? It doesn't does it.
This nightmarish situation is a poisoned chalice for any government to have to manage. Mistakes will be made. Why? Because humans make mistakes. However, the vast majority of people in this country, according to the latest opinion polls. Seem prepared to accept that in a none perfect world, that is changing hourly, the government is making decent fist of it on our behalf.
Rather than lashing out and needlessly finger pointing and sniping, while we're in the eye of the storm. Why not see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future.
Re: Covid-19
Yes it does, and other governments will make mistakes. But I’m talking about our government so I’m not sure what relevance it has.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:58 pmDoes it ever occur to you that other governments could also be criticised for "knowing what the problems would be but not having a plan to mitigate them. And we were given a forward look at what would happen but still we didn’t take mitigating action."? It doesn't does it.
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Re: Covid-19
This is why I'm accused of repeating myself.
Its entirely relevant. Why?
Rather than lashing out and needlessly finger pointing and sniping, while we're in the eye of the storm. Why not see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future.
When all this is over, on years to come, and people look back. These relatively small differences in timescales between each government will seem largely insignificant. Perhaps not to those who lost loved ones , but, early 2020 will be the time seen as when this horrendous situation began for the West. The differnce in days , perhaps weeks, in some cases between how one government reacted compared to another and the petty political point scoring will , by then, have become irrelevant and redundant.
Your "talking about our government" will have long since forgotten. Just like others, in other countries , criticism will have been forgotten. Because, people then , as they already do now, accept a perfect response does not exist.
Doubt we're ever going to agree. In the meantime, keep out of harm's way.
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Re: Covid-19
Sad to see Ringo's 'economy first' list of favorite government responses has been removed.
Wrongo is fully aware that the government's response and planning has been abject that's why his two main arguments are to deflect away from it:
- Claiming people want the perfect response knowing there is no such thing. A bit of a strawman argument by assigning views to others they do not hold.
- Asking for people to focus on "the now" or the "eye of the storm" to distract from what lead us to be so unprepared for this storm in the first place. I'm sure he'll be saying "The past is in the past, lets focus on the recovery" once it's over and people demand a inquiry into the government's failings.
In fact he already covering for the future too, telling us we'll look back and not mind that 7 days delay closing schools might have cost an extra 3 thousand lives or whatever it turns out to be. Sad for the loved ones but no big deal really...
Wrongo is fully aware that the government's response and planning has been abject that's why his two main arguments are to deflect away from it:
- Claiming people want the perfect response knowing there is no such thing. A bit of a strawman argument by assigning views to others they do not hold.
- Asking for people to focus on "the now" or the "eye of the storm" to distract from what lead us to be so unprepared for this storm in the first place. I'm sure he'll be saying "The past is in the past, lets focus on the recovery" once it's over and people demand a inquiry into the government's failings.
In fact he already covering for the future too, telling us we'll look back and not mind that 7 days delay closing schools might have cost an extra 3 thousand lives or whatever it turns out to be. Sad for the loved ones but no big deal really...
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Re: Covid-19
Might explain why even the right wing papers are turning...A Noted Liberal Rag wrote:Conservative backbenchers voiced concern in private about the government’s failure to roll out testing faster, saying there was anxiety that the public mood could turn against the government if it appeared there was no end to the lockdown as a result.
A former supporter Johnson in the leadership contest said they were worried sentiment could turn rapidly: “I think the government could get blown away if people are still inside after Easter and there is no progress on testing.”
Concerns were voiced that Johnson and other ministers had appeared to allow PHE to lead on testing, without asking the independent researchers and the private sector to get involved until Hancock’s announcement. “The fact that there’s not mass testing now is inexcusable,” another Conservative MP complained.
One senior MP said the party would be watching the polls closely and that he was “frankly amazed” that Johnson’s popularity was holding up. A bit like the virus, there might be a two-week lag before the public comes to fully realise that the government is failing to get the testing issue under control, they said.
“There are some in my party who are trying to blame PHE, but ultimately, it will be the politicians who get the blame if the economy collapses because we can’t test NHS workers.
“The death toll will become totemic. If we get thousands of people dying every day for several days, who knows where this will go. It is frightening, and the prime minister looks like he doesn’t know what to do.”
Re: Covid-19
I don’t see anyone sniping at the government, but standing up, shooting over open sights, and firing repeatedly. The fact we’re still “aiming to achieve” levels of testing in line with scientific advice weeks after we should be is itself disgraceful.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:11 amThis is why I'm accused of repeating myself.
Its entirely relevant. Why?
Rather than lashing out and needlessly finger pointing and sniping, while we're in the eye of the storm. Why not see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future.
When all this is over, on years to come, and people look back. These relatively small differences in timescales between each government will seem largely insignificant. Perhaps not to those who lost loved ones , but, early 2020 will be the time seen as when this horrendous situation began for the West. The differnce in days , perhaps weeks, in some cases between how one government reacted compared to another and the petty political point scoring will , by then, have become irrelevant and redundant.
Your "talking about our government" will have long since forgotten. Just like others, in other countries , criticism will have been forgotten. Because, people then , as they already do now, accept a perfect response does not exist.
Doubt we're ever going to agree. In the meantime, keep out of harm's way.
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Re: Covid-19
Keep up, that's PHE's fault.
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Re: Covid-19
Just looked at a chart recording yesterday’s deaths worldwide .France recorded 1,355 the day previous it was just over 500.Does anyone know a reason for this as it seems a shocking increase if true.
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Re: Covid-19
Has Burnley had any confirmed cases or are we just brushing it off ?
For all those living in and around Burnley take comfort in knowing that Covid 19 is avoiding Burnley . It simply doesn't want to come here as nobody and nothing likes a trip to Burnley.
Covid 19 last seen heading back down the m66 singing Sloop John B.
For all those living in and around Burnley take comfort in knowing that Covid 19 is avoiding Burnley . It simply doesn't want to come here as nobody and nothing likes a trip to Burnley.
Covid 19 last seen heading back down the m66 singing Sloop John B.
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Re: Covid-19
What's the betting that when this is all over and the government are coming under fire for their handling of the situation that Ringo will be saying words to the effect of "what's the point in criticising them for something that's already happened, nobody can change it now"?
Re: Covid-19
Most people are only tested once in hospital, the hospital is in Blackburn, so very likely burnley as a town won't show high numbers, though there will be people from burnley who have it.Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:10 amHas Burnley had any confirmed cases or are we just brushing it off ?
For all those living in and around Burnley take comfort in knowing that Covid 19 is avoiding Burnley . It simply doesn't want to come here as nobody and nothing likes a trip to Burnley.
Covid 19 last seen heading back down the m66 singing Sloop John B.
Re: Covid-19
The experts might know, doubt anyone on a burnley football message board will, though it won't stop some from saying they doLord Rothbury wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:03 amJust looked at a chart recording yesterday’s deaths worldwide .France recorded 1,355 the day previous it was just over 500.Does anyone know a reason for this as it seems a shocking increase if true.
Re: Covid-19
Wont the figures be done by the home address of the patient rather than the location of the test?
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Re: Covid-19
Constant stream "Daily" of ambulances sirens and blue flashing lights on the new road to Barnoldswick.
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Re: Covid-19
Why not see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future.
Robert Peston could have done a lot worse this week, by doing what I'm suggesting. Instead of ending up with a large helping of egg on his face....
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Re: Covid-19
Jesus!
Re: Covid-19
Just remember not everyone on this board lives in Burnley, but thanks for your helpful post.
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Re: Covid-19
At eleven o'clock today, Prince Charles will open the first Nightingale hospital in London.
A fully functional hospital with the capacity to treat around 4000 patients. It will dwarf anything comparable in this country. The monumental effort by the Government, civil servants, NHS staff and the army has been outstanding.
The logistics of creating a working hospital out of thin air, in normal times, would have been challenging. But to do it under social distancing rules and everything else associated with this current unprecedented situation is nothing short of a miracle.
Another in Manchester and one in Glasgow coming on stream too.
9 DAYS AGO NOTHING. TODAY A 4000 PATIENT HOSPITAL!
Even the government's most fiercest critics will have to concede they, and all concerned , have moved mountains.
I for one take my hat off to them all. Fabulous effort.
A fully functional hospital with the capacity to treat around 4000 patients. It will dwarf anything comparable in this country. The monumental effort by the Government, civil servants, NHS staff and the army has been outstanding.
The logistics of creating a working hospital out of thin air, in normal times, would have been challenging. But to do it under social distancing rules and everything else associated with this current unprecedented situation is nothing short of a miracle.
Another in Manchester and one in Glasgow coming on stream too.
9 DAYS AGO NOTHING. TODAY A 4000 PATIENT HOSPITAL!
Even the government's most fiercest critics will have to concede they, and all concerned , have moved mountains.
I for one take my hat off to them all. Fabulous effort.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Covid-19
Released yesterday-
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-its-gove
For the first time in nearly a decade, Britain approves of its government
More dramatically still, the latest YouGov data shows, that as a result of the coronavirus crisis, the government now has net positive approval ratings for the first time in almost a decade.
The results show that 52% of Britons approve of the government’s record, compared to just half that number (26%) who disapprove.
A lot of this shift has come from Labour voters, with over a fifth (22%) now saying they approve of the government’s performance, despite not voting for it just four months ago.
This current net approval figure of +26 is the highest that YouGov has ever recorded in the 1,400 times we have asked the question since 2003.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-its-gove
For the first time in nearly a decade, Britain approves of its government
More dramatically still, the latest YouGov data shows, that as a result of the coronavirus crisis, the government now has net positive approval ratings for the first time in almost a decade.
The results show that 52% of Britons approve of the government’s record, compared to just half that number (26%) who disapprove.
A lot of this shift has come from Labour voters, with over a fifth (22%) now saying they approve of the government’s performance, despite not voting for it just four months ago.
This current net approval figure of +26 is the highest that YouGov has ever recorded in the 1,400 times we have asked the question since 2003.
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Re: Covid-19
I think it's important that journalists and, indeed, the public question what is happening now.
A stupid, disingenious suggestion to say wait and see what happens before assessing what have been effective responses and what have been mistakes. We know what's gone well but dodging responsibility for any errors made now will not help.
Christ, even Hancock admitted yesterday the criticism of the government was justified.
Members of the government can accept this, one of our posters can't.
A stupid, disingenious suggestion to say wait and see what happens before assessing what have been effective responses and what have been mistakes. We know what's gone well but dodging responsibility for any errors made now will not help.
Christ, even Hancock admitted yesterday the criticism of the government was justified.
Members of the government can accept this, one of our posters can't.
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Re: Covid-19
Make your mind up. Are we waiting to "see how things pan out, look at the bigger picture and allow time, to give us the benefit of objectivity, proportion and a rational assessment of how the government , and ALL governments did and what lessons can be learned, should , God forbid, we have to face another pandemic in the future" or knocking one out over current opinion?RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:41 amReleased yesterday-
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... s-its-gove
For the first time in nearly a decade, Britain approves of its government
More dramatically still, the latest YouGov data shows, that as a result of the coronavirus crisis, the government now has net positive approval ratings for the first time in almost a decade.
The results show that 52% of Britons approve of the government’s record, compared to just half that number (26%) who disapprove.
A lot of this shift has come from Labour voters, with over a fifth (22%) now saying they approve of the government’s performance, despite not voting for it just four months ago.
This current net approval figure of +26 is the highest that YouGov has ever recorded in the 1,400 times we have asked the question since 2003.
Last edited by TheFamilyCat on Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Covid-19
I'd be surprised if, in a time of grave crisis, the government weren't approved by 52% or even more, tbh. We'd really be in the **** if not.
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Re: Covid-19
He was crowing about 87% a week ago. That number's tumbled a bit.evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:49 amI'd be surprised if, in a time of grave crisis, the government weren't approved by 52% or even more, tbh. We'd really be in the **** if not.
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Re: Covid-19
Nationally the figures are been collated by Upper Tier Local Health Authority, so people with Burnley addresses are incorporated in to the Lancashire figures, while addresses in Blackburn and Darwen are in their own Health Authority.
This user liked this post: Paul Waine
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Re: Covid-19
A good post. Simple facts. Simple explanation.
Welcome to the board, ICL.
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Re: Covid-19
Good to see the bickering and point scoring has stopped
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