Covid-19

[NottsClaret]

I suspect the over 75's would prefer the lockdown to continue for 'several months' and the under 75's would go for 'a few more weeks then we'll take our chance'.

Not an easy decision to make but the decision will have to be made nonetheless.

Yes, it’s complex. The cost of lockdown shouldn’t be underplayed. The over 75s would face months without seeing grandkids and then years of reduced pensions, services and diminished healthcare. Even for them, the current measures are ensuring a bleak future, if a marginally longer one.

[thatdberight]

I suspect the over 75's would prefer the lockdown to continue for 'several months' and the under 75's would go for 'a few more weeks then we'll take our chance'.

Not an easy decision to make but the decision will have to be made nonetheless.

You can do both. That said, the number of young people who would die is trivial statistically but amongst such a large population still a big number.

[BurnleyFC]

Small businesses/shops/cafes etc will be going under as they have been forced to close yet giant retailers like Boohoo are allowed to keep their warehouses open.

We might as well call it all off and take our chances.

[Lowbankclaret]

Answer the question. Stop squirming.

What's the number of projected deaths at which you'd say, "This isn't worth it"?

Not a difficult question for a man who's got all the numbers and knows his position. Just a number.

Oh, and the experts don't say 660,000. That's the IFR x population - which isn't the right sum.

I am not squirming intentionally.

I am not 100% sure I know what your getting at.

I thought I answered it.

So what’s your take on the number of deaths without lockdown?? Answer that question.

My answer for the question I think your asking Is.

The measures we are taking are keeping deaths around 20,000 to 40,000, I think that the measures are acceptable for the lives its saving. I also think if the figures don’t plateau late next week , I think it’s acceptable to tighten them.

[thatdberight]

I am not squirming intentionally.

I am not 100% sure I know what your getting at.

I thought I answered it.

So what’s your take on the number of deaths without lockdown?? Answer that question.

My answer for the question I think your asking Is.

The measures we are taking are keeping deaths around 20,000 to 40,000, I think that the measures are acceptable for the lives its saving. I also think if the figures don’t plateau late next week , I think it’s acceptable to tighten them.

I should have known this would need to be explained.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 620,000 lives in the UK? Yes, you say.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 1 life in the UK? If the answer is "Yes", then you have your answer.

If not, keep asking yourself the question to find what number between 1 and 620,000 is your answer.

There. Simple. Answer. No words. Just give a number.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

In your opinion, how do you think the Spanish government is handling the crisis?

We were maybe a day or two late going into lockdown but apart from that, excellent so far.

[Jakubclaret]

We were maybe a day or two late going into lockdown but apart from that, excellent so far.

A week late, enough warning what was going to happen back then was sufficiently grounded for making an earlier judgement call, I can understand why the decision was delayed but it was only putting off the inevitable, I firmly & robustly believe & believed back then a super strict lockdown then, we would be in a good position now, they'd still be testing issues & a lack of PPE, the crux being if you make the right decisions in the first place all other areas of concern doesn't really intensify or impact to any great detriment you ellievate so much pressure.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

A week late, enough warning what was going to happen back then was sufficiently grounded for making an earlier judgement call, I can understand why the decision was delayed but it was only putting off the inevitable, I firmly & robustly believe & believed back then a super strict lockdown then, we would be in a good position now, they'd still be testing issues & a lack of PPE, the crux being if you make the right decisions in the first place all other areas of concern doesn't really intensify or impact to any great detriment you ellievate so much pressure.

Are you talking about Spain or the UK?
Hapag Lloyd asked how I thought the Spanish government was handling the crisis.

[Lowbankclaret]

I should have known this would need to be explained.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 620,000 lives in the UK? Yes, you say.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 1 life in the UK? If the answer is "Yes", then you have your answer.

If not, keep asking yourself the question to find what number between 1 and 620,000 is your answer.

There. Simple. Answer. No words. Just give a number.

You didn’t answer my question???

[thatdberight]

You didn’t answer my question???

Still unable to give any sensible answer. Just flailing about. You haven't changed since the first day you started infecting this thread.

[Lowbankclaret]

I should have known this would need to be explained.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 620,000 lives in the UK? Yes, you say.

Would you be in favour of the current lockdown if it saved 1 life in the UK? If the answer is "Yes", then you have your answer.

If not, keep asking yourself the question to find what number between 1 and 620,000 is your answer.

There. Simple. Answer. No words. Just give a number.

I think life is precious so yes if this is needed to save a life, then I support it. So the simple answer is 1.

[thatdberight]

I think life is precious so yes if this is needed to save a life, then I support it. So the simple answer is 1.

[Paul Waine]

Friday's Times (3-April-2020) reported on a number of countries re Covid-19.

I'll copy/paste the countries that have also been mentioned on this thread.

I make no personal claim that The Times reporting is accurate in all respects.

[Lowbankclaret]

This will wind up Zlatan as it’s a photo.
To Grumps , it’s looking likely we will hit 10,000 deaths by next Sunday, give or take a day. Sad news.

Remember China declared total deaths of 3,326.

529AC0E3-B0E4-41EF-B859-AEABF8440583.jpeg (423.18 KiB) Viewed 2685 times

[Paul Waine]

SPAIN

Spain has registered the most infections in Europe as its death toll exceeded 900 for the second successive day (Isambard Wilkinson writes).

The death toll rose to a total of 10,935 from 10,003 on the previous day and the number of registered cases rose to 117,710 up from 110,238, overtaking Italy, which registered 115,242 on Thursday.

Spain is about a week behind Italy in its coronavirus progression. The government says the infection rate is slowing.

Spain, which has the world’s second-highest death toll from the virus after Italy, has shed 834,000 jobs since a lockdown began on March 14. Employers are warning of a second wave of job losses after the virus ends. The government will soon announce an extension of the lockdown until April 26, according to media reports.

Triple the normal number of people died in care homes for the elderly in the Madrid region in March alone, about 6 per cent of residents, according to officials. Some 13,000 health workers in Spain have tested positive, about 14 per cent of the total number of infected.

[Paul Waine]

JAPAN

One of Japan’s richest businessmen joined the governor of Tokyo in pleading with the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, to declare a national state of emergency as coronavirus infections continued to rise steeply in the capital (Richard Lloyd Parry writes).

Hiroshi Mikitani, the billionaire head of the online shopping business, Rakuten, used Twitter to appeal to Mr Abe to invoke emergency powers which would enable the government to issue sterner encouragement for businesses to close and for people to stay at home.

His intervention reflects the sense among many business people that, despite the damage that a lock down would do to the economy, an explosive outburst of new infections would be worse.

Mr Mikitani, Japan’s fifth richest man, reported that he had spoken to the country’s second richest, Masayoshi Son, head of the telecommunications giant Softbank, and that they agreed about the “extreme crisis”.

“In two months’ time, hundreds of thousands of people are likely to be infected,” he wrote. “How can you say this is not an emergency situation? Mr Abe, please declare a state of emergency right away!”

Yuriko Koike, the governor of Tokyo, has been frustrated by the patchy response to her appeals for people to stay at home. She told a press conference, “If the country makes a move, it would send a strong message to people. If that is coupled with an economic stimulus package being prepared, it would give Tokyo a big boost.”

In the past week, the number of cases in Tokyo has risen dramatically, with 89 new infections today – small by European standards, but indicative of a coming surge. In anticipation of an explosion of new cases, the government changed its policy of hospitalising anyone found to be infected, and said that those with mild infections should stay at home or in designated hotels.

[Paul Waine]

CHINA

About 640,000 people have been sealed off indefinitely from the rest of China over fears of a fresh coronavirus outbreak caused by asymptomatic “silent carriers” (Didi Tang writes).

Jia county, in the central province of Henan, announced yesterday that it was closing most factories and limiting access to all villages and residential compounds to only one entrance.

“Everyone must enter and leave with a permit, have the body temperature taken, and wear a face mask,” the order read. No one is allowed to leave Jia, except those with authorisation.

The shutdown followed multiple reports of asymptomatic carriers in Jia, including a children’s doctor who had come into contact with “many” patients and their family members.

Wet markets, which house slaughterhouses as well as shops, are reopening but officials were ensuring that higher sanitary standards were met. A wet market was at the centre of the outbreak in Wuhan.

China reported 31 new cases of the virus yesterday, including two locally transmitted cases. Four new deaths were also reported in Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, taking the country’s death toll to 3,322. China’s total number of infections now stands at 81,620.

[Paul Waine]

SINGAPORE

Singapore will close schools and most workplaces for a month, except for essential services and key economic sectors.

Singapore’s infections, both imported and domestic, have been rising sharply in recent weeks and topped 1,000 this week. It reported its fifth death on Friday.

“We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections,” Lee Hsien Loong, the prime minister, said. He urged everyone to stay home as much as possible and to avoid socialising with others beyond their own household.

[Paul Waine]

SWITZERLAND

The Matterhorn in the Alps is being illuminated with words and images to lift spirits during the pandemic ((David Crossland writes).

Every night from sunset, the words “hope”, “solidarity” and “stayathome” are projected on to the 4,478-metre peak, one of the country’s national symbols. A giant red heart on a white background and the flags of Switzerland, Italy and the Swiss region of Ticino have been beamed onto the mountain.

The light artist Gerry Hofstetter, 58, who is creating the show is camping out on a mountain high above the ski resort of Zermatt with an assistant and enough food to last for a month.

They started in March and plan to continue until April 19, when Switzerland’s lockdown is scheduled to end.

“Zermatt wants to give people a sign of hope and solidarity in these difficult times,” the Zermatt tourist board said. “The village shows solidarity with all the people who are currently suffering and is grateful to all those who are helping to overcome the crisis. Stay at home — you can follow the spectacle live via webcams.”

The projections are nearly 800 metres high and are being beamed onto the north and east faces of the mountain, which straddles Switzerland’s southeastern border with Italy.

The southern Ticino canton, which borders stricken northern Italy, has been the hardest-hit in Switzerland. The flags of other badly-affected nations will be projected onto the mountain in the coming days and weeks.

[Paul Waine]

FRANCE

Two senior French doctors have been accused of racism after they said a vaccine for the coronavirus should be tested in Africa (Charles Bremner writes).

Jean-Paul Mira, head of intensive care at Cochin hospital, one of the biggest in Paris, and Camille Locht, head of research at Inserm, the state health research institute, were taking part in a television debate on the Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG) vaccine. Long used for tuberculosis, it is about to be tested in Europe and Australia in the fight against Covid-19.

Dr Mira said: “If I can be provocative, shouldn’t we be doing this study in Africa, where there are no masks, no treatments, no resuscitation? A bit like it is done elsewhere for some studies on Aids. With prostitutes, we try things because we know that they are highly exposed and that they do not protect themselves.”

Dr Locht, a world authority on vaccines, replied: “You are right. We are in the process of thinking about a study in parallel in Africa.”

Their exchange triggered an outcry on social media and from left-wing politicians. Didier Drogba, a former international footballer, tweeted: “I would like to vividly denounce those demeaning, false and most of all deeply racist words. Do not take African people as human guinea pigs! It’s absolutely disgusting.”

Olivier Faure, leader of the Socialist Party, tweeted: “This is not provocation, just quite simply racism”.

Inserm described the row as fake news. It said: “If there is indeed a question of testing in Africa, it would be done in parallel with [Europe and Australia].

“Africa must not be forgotten or excluded from research because the pandemic is global.”

Dr Mira apologised but said that his remarks had been misinterpreted. “Africa has been hit by coronavirus but few tests have been carried out there to prove it. It would be more exposed to more serious forms of it because there will be few masks and little lockdown because of its social structure. So it would seem useful that in addition to France and Australia, an African country could take part in this study.”

[dsr]

What is Soviet about the government needing to be ‘transparent about how and why they made their decisions during this crisis’?

Sorry, HB, you've misunderstood. When I was asking Andrew about a "Soviet sdtyle economy", I was asking about the economy.

[CombatClaret]

"As the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) outbreak began spreading in Europe and the USA, a chart started circulating online showing ratings from the 2019 Global Health Security Index, an assessment of 195 countries’ capacity to face infectious disease outbreaks, compiled by the US-based Nuclear Threat Initiative and the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health’s Center for Health Security. The USA was ranked first, and the UK second...

Things look different now. The US and UK Governments have provided among the world’s worst responses to the pandemic, with sheer lies and incompetence from the former, and near-criminal delays and obfuscation from the latter. Neither country has widespread testing available, as strongly recommended by WHO, alongside treatment and robust contact tracing.In neither country do health workers have adequate access to personal protective equipment; nor are there nearly enough hospital beds to accommodate the onslaught of patients."

Sarah L Dalglish - Department of International Health, Johns Hopkins School of Public Health USA; and Institute for Global Health, University College
London, London, UK.

[dsr]

I think life is precious so yes if this is needed to save a life, then I support it. So the simple answer is 1.

If it was discovered that £50,000 would save the life of a 94 year old lady, whether from coronavirus or something else, and you could raise £50,000 by selling your house and car and living in a static caravan, would you do it?

What if she was 44? Or 14?

[dsr]

FRANCE

Two senior French doctors have been accused of racism after they said a vaccine for the coronavirus should be tested in Africa (Charles Bremner writes).

Jean-Paul Mira, head of intensive care at Cochin hospital, one of the biggest in Paris, and Camille Locht, head of research at Inserm, the state health research institute, were taking part in a television debate on the Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG) vaccine. Long used for tuberculosis, it is about to be tested in Europe and Australia in the fight against Covid-19.

Dr Mira said: “If I can be provocative, shouldn’t we be doing this study in Africa, where there are no masks, no treatments, no resuscitation? A bit like it is done elsewhere for some studies on Aids. With prostitutes, we try things because we know that they are highly exposed and that they do not protect themselves.”

Dr Locht, a world authority on vaccines, replied: “You are right. We are in the process of thinking about a study in parallel in Africa.”

Their exchange triggered an outcry on social media and from left-wing politicians. Didier Drogba, a former international footballer, tweeted: “I would like to vividly denounce those demeaning, false and most of all deeply racist words. Do not take African people as human guinea pigs! It’s absolutely disgusting.”

Olivier Faure, leader of the Socialist Party, tweeted: “This is not provocation, just quite simply racism”.

Inserm described the row as fake news. It said: “If there is indeed a question of testing in Africa, it would be done in parallel with [Europe and Australia].

“Africa must not be forgotten or excluded from research because the pandemic is global.”

Dr Mira apologised but said that his remarks had been misinterpreted. “Africa has been hit by coronavirus but few tests have been carried out there to prove it. It would be more exposed to more serious forms of it because there will be few masks and little lockdown because of its social structure. So it would seem useful that in addition to France and Australia, an African country could take part in this study.”

There are plenty of cases in all forms of medicine where people who are in danger, agree to take part in medical experiments which might save them. Could this be one of those times?

[tiger76]

This will wind up Zlatan as it’s a photo.
To Grumps , it’s looking likely we will hit 10,000 deaths by next Sunday, give or take a day. Sad news.

Remember China declared total deaths of 3,326.

529AC0E3-B0E4-41EF-B859-AEABF8440583.jpeg

If anyone takes those Chinese figures as gospel they're gullible to say the least,sadly an increase in deaths is to be expected in the short-term,however there are signs the lockdown might be having an affect,and hopefully in the next week or two this will feed through to the fatality numbers.

A new high in UK deaths - but cases are slowing

Robert Cuffe

BBC head of statistics

The number of 708 deaths is a new high, but a fall in cases indicates the UK is slightly below trend. The drop in new confirmed cases from 4,450 on Friday to 3,735 cases shows a continued slowdown.

New cases were growing by about 20% a day up to last weekend. In the last week, that slowed to about 10% a day.

That's even after allowing for the expansion of testing to include NHS workers. Even if Saturday's fall is followed by rises, it is evidence that case growth is slowing.

The figure of 708 new deaths is a record high, but it is also below scientific expectations. Deaths have been growing by just under 25% each day. That means doubling every 3.5 days. A continuation of that would have taken us from 684 deaths on Friday to more than 800.

The first day of a below trend growth is too soon to call a turn, but there is hope that the slowdown we're seeing in case numbers will eventually feed through into the numbers of new deaths.



A major caveat to add.as far as i'm aware,only patients who've died in hospital,are counted in the official stats,my biggest worry is the number who are passing away in care homes,our in the wider community,once those are accounted for,the deaths could increase significantly.

[Enty1974]

Deaths in 24 hours

Does anybody actually believe these figures?

[Jakubclaret]

If somebody died day in a care home or just at home from the virus without being tested positive, you would never know or be able to include them in the count unless a post mortem was carried out.

[NottsClaret]

Infections going down so deaths will follow in a week or two. All very grim still but heading in the right direction even if it doesn’t feel like it yet.

[bfcjg]

Wow another thread just what we need.

[Lowbankclaret]

If it was discovered that £50,000 would save the life of a 94 year old lady, whether from coronavirus or something else, and you could raise £50,000 by selling your house and car and living in a static caravan, would you do it?

What if she was 44? Or 14?

I am not getting into this debate it’s pointless.

I have been doing something far more positive today.

I have just submitted our project plan to our exec for manufacturing face shields.

Requests are coming in from all over the UK.

I have had emails today from two other groups in work, one from Derby and one from Bristol who are all starting to make face shields.

So I will spend time moving that forward to hopefully save some NHS and care workers.

[IanMcL]

There could well be 708 families who do.

[nil_desperandum]

708 Deaths in 24 hours
Does anybody actually believe these figures?

Why, - do you think it should be more or less?
The only sort of context that we have for this is that in normal times on average around 1,500 people die in the UK each day. (About 520,000 / year, and it's expected that without Coronavirus or similar it would rise to around 590,000/ year in the next couple of decades).
We will only really have any idea of the death toll from Covid-19 when we eventually find out the total number of deaths from "all causes" over the 12 months period. Of course we will never know how many more it might have been were it not for the current measures.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Deaths in 24 hours

Does anybody actually believe these figures?

Just because you can't comprehend something, doesn't mean it is untrue....

[Claretincraven]

Bit early on the day to be that wrecked isn't it?

[Lowbankclaret]

If anyone takes those Chinese figures as gospel they're gullible to say the least,sadly an increase in deaths is to be expected in the short-term,however there are signs the lockdown might be having an affect,and hopefully in the next week or two this will feed through to the fatality numbers.

A new high in UK deaths - but cases are slowing

Robert Cuffe

BBC head of statistics

The number of 708 deaths is a new high, but a fall in cases indicates the UK is slightly below trend. The drop in new confirmed cases from 4,450 on Friday to 3,735 cases shows a continued slowdown.

New cases were growing by about 20% a day up to last weekend. In the last week, that slowed to about 10% a day.

That's even after allowing for the expansion of testing to include NHS workers. Even if Saturday's fall is followed by rises, it is evidence that case growth is slowing.

The figure of 708 new deaths is a record high, but it is also below scientific expectations. Deaths have been growing by just under 25% each day. That means doubling every 3.5 days. A continuation of that would have taken us from 684 deaths on Friday to more than 800.

The first day of a below trend growth is too soon to call a turn, but there is hope that the slowdown we're seeing in case numbers will eventually feed through into the numbers of new deaths.



A major caveat to add.as far as i'm aware,only patients who've died in hospital,are counted in the official stats,my biggest worry is the number who are passing away in care homes,our in the wider community,once those are accounted for,the deaths could increase significantly.

I added China for context only.

I agree with what your saying but death rate is the only number I feel we can concentrate on . That’s because testing keeps changing on a daily basis.

[TVC15]

Deaths in 24 hours

Does anybody actually believe these figures?

You gonna do this every day now ?

[thatdberight]

If it was discovered that £50,000 would save the life of a 94 year old lady, whether from coronavirus or something else, and you could raise £50,000 by selling your house and car and living in a static caravan, would you do it?

What if she was 44? Or 14?

This. These absolutist "every life is worth penny" types can only be taken seriously if they are earning lots of money but living a life of penury while sending their cash to causes which extend others' lives.

Once we've established they aren't (and they aren't) we can then debate where the line is drawn.

[Lowbankclaret]

This. These absolutist "every life is worth penny" types can only be taken seriously if they are earning lots of money but living a life of penury while sending their cash to causes which extend others' lives.

Once we've established they aren't (and they aren't) we can then debate where the line is drawn.

I am confused here with your argument.

Are you suggesting we should move to society where you can afford to pay for everything or you die. You saying we should not have a social security system or an NHS???

That’s how it comes across.

[Jakubclaret]

This. These absolutist "every life is worth penny" types can only be taken seriously if they are earning lots of money but living a life of penury while sending their cash to causes which extend others' lives.

Once we've established they aren't (and they aren't) we can then debate where the line is drawn.

I don’t subscribe to that ideology at all, the 1 life is also an extension onto other life’s, if you are talking more than 1 could lead to thousands then millions, 1 could be linked to 10, 10 to 100, we are already seeing people integral to the country’s wellbeing falling foul of the virus trying to save others, that will increase also if left to go rampant, the very people saving life’s won’t be there so more will die as a result.

[TVC15]

This. These absolutist "every life is worth penny" types can only be taken seriously if they are earning lots of money but living a life of penury while sending their cash to causes which extend others' lives.

Once we've established they aren't (and they aren't) we can then debate where the line is drawn.

That sounds like a daft answer to an even dafter question.
What point are either of you trying to make ? - I suspect despite you saying “This” you are on different pages.

[Enty1974]

You gonna do this every day now ?

Why when have i previously posted about it?

I just think EVERY death is now being reported as COVID

Me personally i dont believe the figures being put out there by the media

[1HappyClaret]

These are people who have died in hospital who have tested positive for COVID-19. It does not include people who have died that are not in hospital. Unfortunately the actual figure is likely to be higher not lower.

[Dy1geo]

What people have to factor into this equation is the ability of any health care system to cope whilst there is pandemic on, even at the stage the NHS are cancelling chemotherapy treatments etc but if the “lockdown” was lifted the NHS would be overwhelmed with people with the worst symptoms of Covid, then you have Doctors selecting who has access to ventilators etc and given the fact that there is already a large proportion of under 60’s are in ITC would they say only those under a set age not on meds or pre existing condition allowed. Also for those calling for the lifting of the lockdown, they could be in an accident and die due to lack of first response, Cancer symptoms may be missed etc

I won’t put a number on acceptable deaths as there isn’t one, I just want a functioning NHS and if that means it takes 3-5 years for the economy to recover so be it.

[TVC15]

Why when have i previously posted about it?

I just think EVERY death is now being reported as COVID

Me personally i dont believe the figures being put out there by the media

You haven’t - I am asking whether you are going to start a new thread with the daily death numbers every day from now despite the fact there is clearly another thread on the subject ?
(And that’s a bit of a rhetorical question which means please don’t)

[dsr]

'Society' as a whole accepts that some things are worth the deaths of people. Take driving, for example. About 1,800 people die on the roads each year. If road transport was abolished, this would be nil. But society accepts that the benefits of road transport outweigh the costs and allows those 1,800 people to die. We try and reduce it, of course, but we don't take the simple action required that would save 1,800 lives per year.

In costs and benefits analysis, whether you like it or not, 'society' tots up death of human beings as one of the costs.

Who here would abolish road transport to save 1,800 lives?

[thatdberight]

That sounds like a daft answer to an even dafter question.
What point are either of you trying to make ? - I suspect despite you saying “This” you are on different pages.

LowBank said this lockdown would be worth it if it saves 1 life.

[Enty1974]

You haven’t - I am asking whether you are going to start a new thread with the daily death numbers every day from now despite the fact there is clearly another thread on the subject ?
(And that’s a bit of a rhetorical question which means please don’t)

No ive held back the past few numbers reported and saw the new figure and thought id share my opinion

I dont believe whats being reported to us

[Tall Paul]

Why when have i previously posted about it?

I just think EVERY death is now being reported as COVID

Me personally i dont believe the figures being put out there by the media

The figures aren't put out by the media.

[thatdberight]

I don’t subscribe to that ideology at all, the 1 life is also an extension onto other life’s, if you are talking more than 1 could lead to thousands then millions, 1 could be linked to 10, 10 to 100, we are already seeing people integral to the country’s wellbeing falling foul of the virus trying to save others, that will increase also if left to go rampant, the very people saving life’s won’t be there so more will die as a result.

That's not the question.

If this lockdown saves 1 life, is it worth it?

If not 1, then what's the number where your answer changes?

[TVC15]

No ive held back the past few numbers reported and saw the new figure and thought id share my opinion

I dont believe whats being reported to us

Ok it was more about not starting new threads
Wasn’t saying you should not express an opinion